The name game continues in California: Odds increasing that electoral initiative will qualify

[DeepModem Mom]

Source: Los Angeles Times

Backers of a California initiative that could significantly aid the next Republican presidential nominee said today they're still collecting signatures to qualify it for the state's ballot in June, terming as premature reports that they have wrapped up the process. "The goal is to be completed by Dec. 1," Mike Arno, the contractor heading the signature-gathering effort, told The Times' Dan Morain. He added that "people are still out working" and circulating petitions.

To qualify the measure, its supporters must obtain signatures from 434,000 registered California voters. They say they have obtained roughly that number of names, but inevitably many will be disqualified when state officials vet the petitions, often because the signers are not registered to vote. So to ensure they reach the required mark, the initiative supporters aim to amass about 700,000 signatures....

***

Morain reports that the initiative's backers filed a campaign finance statement late Tuesday showing they had garnered more than $500,000 in donations to their cause in recent weeks, pushing their total to about $1.2 million. Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Vista) donated $50,000, raising his total contribution to $100,000.

The measure's main financial angel has been Paul Singer, who also is a major money man for Republican Rudy Giuliani's presidential bid. Other prominent Giuliani supporters are playing key roles in pushing the initiative, causing its opponents to file complaints with federal officials charging the Giuliani campaign with masterminding the measure....

With odds increasing that the initiative will qualify for the ballot, Chris Lehane, a San Francisco-based Democratic activist leading the campaign to derail it, issued the following statement today: "The power-grabbers are pursuing a lose-lose-lose strategy: It will lose at the ballot box, where it is polling below 30%; it will be a loser for the Republican Party, as it will brand the GOP as the party of presidential hijackers; and it will be a loser for Rudy Giuliani, whose close connections to the initiative will only further define him as someone who puts the raw, crass pursuit of power before the best interests of the country."...

Read more: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2007/11/the-name-game-c.html#more

[Le Taz Hot]

1. Kick

We need to pay attention to this. HUGE loss if the Democrats lose CA.

[Hugin]

2. Agreed.

:kick:

[DeepModem Mom]

3. I'm a worrier, and this worries me big-time. It's a doomsday scenario. nt

[EFerrari]

4. This is their answer to the election of Bowen.

Isn't she the one who has to verify that this measure qualifies to be on the ballot, i.e., check the signatures and all of that?

[Triana]

37. That's why they planted Ahhhnuld there and ousted Davis...they've been...

...foaming at the mouth for CA for eons.

Slimy, sidewinding, criminal bastards.

[datavg]

48. Loss?

How about Game, Set, Match?

It's already difficult enough when everything in the Old Confederacy is red.

This would mean the election. Bush was able to win both times without carrying California...and if some of those coveted Electoral votes are added to the 'Pubs' total next time, it's just over. Democrats would lose San Diego, Palm Springs and the far northern tier of Los Angeles county from their total.

If this passes, something very ugly will happen in the old California Republic.

We'll have civil unrest again.

[krkaufman]

50. Yeah, I don't see people sitting idly by ...

... if this initiative passes and it tips the election.

p.s. But then I didn't think people would left the theft stand in 2000, either.

[Bitwit1234]

5. The are starting a lawsuit about the signatures.

Several people have come forward and say the signatures collected are bogus. They had someone getting signatures for something to do with teachers. They had four papers and told the signers they had to sign all four. One guy, said he only read what he signed. He looked at the last page and it was the petition to get the ballot initiative on the ballot. He took the paper with him over the objection of the person getting signatures and he went to the SOS to have them check this out. It is illegal. So they better check the signatures and make sure they are legal.

[Hawaii Hiker]

8. Here is a good site that keeps up with the scam

that Republicans are attempting...

http://nodirtytricks.com/

[balantz]

12. Thanks for the link!

[Kajsa]

9. It wouldn't surprise me if many of the "signatures"

are from the deceased.

They've pulled that crap before.

[datavg]

49. So...

...did Daley when all those dead people voted for Kennedy in 1960.

Both sides do this. It's part of the game.

[eShirl]

56. SO, anytime it's done, it's wrong and illegal. n/t

[datavg]

59. If I Had To Guess...

...I'd say Hillary will be doing some of this in order to take Florida next year. The results will likely be so close that she'll have to.

This is real, in the trenches politics. Democrats in Boston used to say "vote early and vote often".

It's part of the game.

[blogslut]

73. Cheating is part of the "game"?

n/t

[TankLV]

76. Boy - you really are defending the repuke point of view all over DU, aren't you?!

I wonder why that is...hmmmm...

[aggiesal]

20. Feeding the homeless for signatures, ...

NY Times is reporting that the homeless in LA are being
bribed for signatures.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/21/us/21calif.html?ei=5088&en=edcc05e38a05afee&ex=1353301200&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1195654277-rfOzziD8/h0Vv7meR9ORYQ

They'll stop at nothing to steal 20 votes. And the
a$$ Darrell Issa, who funded the Gray Davis recall is
now funding this initiative.

[dysfunctional press]

66. how many homelss people are registered voters?

:shrug:

[BrotherBuzz]

72. They were required to fill out voter registration cards before being compensated with...

Snickers bars, instant noodles and other snack foods....

I guess they learned not to have entire petition pages signed by the same hand like they did last time.

[JerseygirlCT]

74. My goodness, that's so wrong on so many levels! nt

[kelliebrat]

21. I replied about this in another thread

I live in Riverside, Ca and those people have been outside every grocery store, walmart, target and pharmacy in the area. They were collecting signatures for 'fighting eminent domain' and 'stopping the expansion of Indian Casinos'. When I asked why they were against expanding Indian Casinos I noticed that there were 4 or 5 petitions and one was the electoral college reform initiative. The woman was telling people it was to get rid of the electoral college all together so the person who won the popular vote would be elected. When I told her that was bull and she was totally misleading people, she told me I needed to get informed and either sign or leave. This is BULLSHIT. I'll bet most of the people who signed all 4 (or 5) of the petitions had no idea what they were signing. Dammit I hate the rethugs

[tbyg52]

24. Two words - camera phone (if you have one) nt

[kelliebrat]

68. I thought about that too late but

make sure I take cell phone with video camera with me everywhere now

[Lucky Luciano]

31. If you have the time, then stay with the petitioners and

warn people what they are doing...would become a big battle...

[Le Taz Hot]

55. I've done that.

And stopped several people from signing those petitions in the process. I actually caused one gal to give up. She packed up her shit and left the premises.

[kelliebrat]

69. If I had been by myself I would have

But I had my twin boys and my mentally retarded aunt with me. It would have been a good lesson for the boys but my aunt gets really anxious at the slightest confrontation. I took them home to hubby and went back but the lady was already packed up and gone. I'll be hounding them next time I see them

[Red Zelda]

6. How in hell

can one state do this while others don't??? Is our system so fucked up that that's even possible????

[sheppdogg]

7. Maine and Nebraska do it

That is, they award electoral votes by Congressional District. Nebraska has five, for example. Two EVs go to the overall winner. The remaining three go by our three CDs. I don't think either state has ever split its electoral votes though.

It's a great idea if all states followed. Terrible idea if it's just California

[DeepModem Mom]

10. Welcome to DU, sheppdogg!

When I posted about this recently, a poster argued in favor of it. I replied that if the GOP wanted electoral votes to be counted in this way then they should reach into their bottomless pit of funding for dirty tricks like this, and mount similar campaigns in all of the states. I don't think we're likely to see that happening.

[Hawaii Hiker]

11. I've posted many times on this topic & either one of two things

needs to happen...Either Democrats need to defeat this CA. initiative outright, or get the ball rolling to split the electoral votes of Texas and/or Florida....

[AZ Criminal JD]

17. This same proposal was on the ballot in Colorado in 2004

It was supported by the Colorado Democratic Party. It was defeated however.

[Hawaii Hiker]

18. Yeah, but in CO., wasn't it voted on presidential election day in Nov. 04?

This CA. initiative being attempted, the Re-thugs behind it are proposing it for a June 3, 2008 vote....NOT on the 2/5/08 primary OR election day next Nov...Republicans want it on a SPECIAL June ballot when no one will show up..

And Democrats were proposing a electoral vote change/split in North Carolina to, but ended up withdrawing from that idea....

The one poster said it correct though, as if the ballot were to pass, there will be a challenge in court without a doubt...

[EST]

67. To carry your idea a bit further, it doesn't make sense to me that

they would need or want this in other states.
It is only a valuable tool to them in populous states with a democratic majority but a large republican minority. Taking forty percent of California's electoral votes would give them far more votes than winning several smaller states put together.

It's like adding three smaller states to GOF and subtracting them from democrats but leaving California as it is. That kind of margin would be pretty hard to overcome and it's worth it to all the heavy shitters who lean republican to invest whatever it takes--no limit--to make this happen.

Unless, that is, they are smart enough to notice what happens when "conservatives" gain control.

The big, heavily populated and heavily democratic states are the prize and I don't expect them to try to break up any other states unless it fails in California.

Oh, and, by the way, that GOF label I hung on them started as a typo but looked so good I left it uncorrected. It gives looser rein to imagination!

[ohio2007]

30. Ohio votes could have been split

the idea that "winner take all" leads to abandonment of certain states altogether.

[slackmaster]

60. Second paragraph of Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution

Article II

Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

California is somewhat special (actually VERY special) in that we have an initiative process by which citizens can override the Legislature in a form of direct democracy. If this measure gets on the ballot and the people don't want it, we'll vote it down.

[Faygo Kid]

13. To be fair, the GOP will propose this for Texas, too . . . right?

Of course not.

Voter ID, this effort, purging the voter rolls - the GOP has decided not to win elections, but to rig them. It has worked in the past. This would pretty much be the ultimate ripoff. They are shameless.

[aggiesal]

19. In fact, ...

the GOP is making sure that this initiative is not on the
ballot in any other state, especially those states that
are "Red" leaning.

So yes, this is the ultimate ripoff.

[tbyg52]

25. ROFLMAO!

And what further proof is needed that this is naked partisan politics....?

[slackmaster]

61. Actually no, the Democratic Party should propose it for Texas

That would be perfectly equitable.

[JerseygirlCT]

75. Not perfectly

CA is still the mother-lode of electoral votes...

[YvonneCa]

14. This is outrageous...

...and needs to be stopped.

[Turbineguy]

15. If you can't win fairly

change the rules.

The repubs are going to keep this up until there is an armed insurrection and loads of them get shot. By the time that happens the economy will be in ruins and people will be starving in the streets.

[Diclotican]

45. Turbineguy

Turbineguy

Peopole is starwing in the street allerady, but it is just not "enough" about them. And the media is just not reporting what is happening.. And the echonomy IS allready as it is, in deep truble... Wait to the Chinese want to use euro instead of US dollar in forreing trade... And dump as mutch US dollar they can do in a few monts.. Then you wil se the backside of the Project for the New American Century as it is... (PNAC). As one of my friends say it, when he was reading the "prinsiples". Dam this is really close to the Nazi stuff Hitler was writing in the 1920s when he was arrested tried and sentenced to prison...

The republican Party is hijaced by a group so dangrous to US, and to the rest of the world that everyone with some "balls" should try to stand up, and tell them to get down to the rocks they once lived under, and not come back ever.. And arrest and trial the rest of the gang, neo-cons as they call themselfs... A Nurnberg trial of sorts... In US.. Maybee in Philidelphia or somelike that as a symbol for all to come.. Dont F*** With the americans...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

[datavg]

65. Turbineguy?

Do you fly?

I'm in process of studying for my Private written right now. I'm using the Gleim package plus the reg books instead of ground school.

[AZ Criminal JD]

16. There will be a legal challenge even if this passes

The U.S. Constitution says the state legislature determines how presidential electors are chosen. This is being done by the initiative process. The California state constitution says the people, through the initiative process, have the power of the legislature. These two positions will be argued in court if this passes.

[onehandle]

22. States Rights! States Rights!

Constitution be damned...as long as it helps the GOP.

[brentspeak]

23. Not surprised that Guiliani's operatives are big sponsors of this

The message should get out to all California voters that the GOP is attempting to water down their Constitutional-given votes at the ballot box.

[Toots]

26. Darrell Issa (R-Vista) donated $50,000, raising his total contribution to $100,000.

Those Congressmen sure do make good money....It would be interesting to find out where he came by so much money...

[Timmy5835]

28. Issa made his money by........

.....being a car alarm manufacturer. He's a millionare.

[ProudDad]

38. issa is part of the fear industry

He's slime...

[aggiesal]

51. In his younger years, he use to steal car stereos, and ...

learned to bypass the car alarm systems. So, he bought
a car alarm company. That's how he made his money.

That's as I understand it. If someone else know more
accurate details, please correct me.

[CrispyQ]

27. I notice they aren't trying this in the red states,

where there are always a few districts that go blue.

They cannot win on their own merit so they cheat.

[aggiesal]

52. Let's be honest, ...

If this is done in CA., it should be done in all states.

If it is done in all states, then the Repugs will never
ever win another presidential election because, most
of the people now live in urban areas (i.e. big cities),
instead of the rural areas (farm country).

We all know that urban areas tend to vote Dem. And
because urban areas have more of the population, they
will have more of the voting districts. Farming communities
have huge districts, so this will dilute their electoral
college votes.

So, yes I'm against this unless it's done in all 50 states.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Wow talk about ironic! Right next to this article on the front page:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x71332

[avrdream]

33. Saw that. Signed the petition too.

This initiative scares me but I am appalled at the dirty tricks that are being played just to get the initiative through.

[Hawaii Hiker]

32. Please Keith Olbermann, cover this CA. initiative on Countdown

This is getting serious, we need to make sure this f-ing initiative is defeated, I hope Keith (and others) will cover it...

No Democratic candiate, be it HRC, Obama, Edwards, etc. can win in 2008 if ONLY California's electoral votes are split & NO other states (especially red ones) follow suit.....

[The Doctor.]

34. God @%#%& ^@#$%@&%%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's so fucking blatant!

How does anyone fall for this shit?

[skepticscott]

36. You're operating under a false assumption

namely, that the general population is anywhere close to being as politically aware and well informed as the average DUer. Unfortunately, it just ain't so. Almost a third of adults don't even know who the vice president or their state governor is. People are lucky to be able to even name just one Supreme Court justice, and as far as having any real understanding of the Constitution, forget it. I could go on, but suffice it to say, it's pretty grim out there. No surprise at all to me that people are so easily led and so easily duped on political matters.

[The Doctor.]

44. Yeah, I know....

The vast majority are relatively ignorant on these things.

Sometimes you just need to rant about it though.

[Le Taz Hot]

57. As a poster above stated,

they're including this initiative in a batch of initiatives and people just start signing without really knowing what they're signing. On this one, they're being told that this will eliminate the electoral college in California so that the person who wins the popular vote wins the state. Now, add to that that this state hasn't seen a civics class in over 20 years so that people don't know that you can't do that without changing the Constitution and you have what was intended: An uninformed voter who signs petitions like this one.

[tinrobot]

35. Can we have a signature campaign to take this OFF the ballot?

Just wondering...

[slackmaster]

63. No, but there could be a competing initiative to keep the elector selection process unchanged

Or nearly so.

[McCamy Taylor]

39. Repubs will turn out in higher numbers than Democrats, who will say to themselves

"this could never pass in our state." GOPers always turn out to vote, even in special elections for dog catcher. Dems turn out mostly for the big election.

If this is timed for the primary election, it will fail, because there will be a big turn out.

If it is timed at any other time, it will probably pass.

[AndyTiedye]

40. It Would be In June, When Nobody is Paying Attention to Politics

[d_b]

41. Could this actually pass in Cali?

:scared:

[Diclotican]

46. d_b

d_b

Nobody belived that US wanted to "wote" for George Walker Bush jr in 2000.. And nobody belived too, that US wanted to "wote" for the same gay 4 year later, and to be lied to as they have been doing for the last 7 year

So I guess, in USA, everything is posible.. We on the outside just shake our heads and hope the shit are not coming here..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native langauge

[slackmaster]

62. Not likely IMO

But it is possible. Democrats are far from a majority, and are losing ground to independents faster than the GOP.

Independent voters will probably end up deciding this one.

[AzDar]

42. Kick...

:kick:

[NBachers]

43. They're Here in San Francisco

Yeah, they were out in force last week at the Green Festival in San Francisco. The Green Festival was a blast, but you had to run a gauntlet of Borg signature-harvesters to get in the entrance. Most of them were armed with multiple clipboards- you sign one, then you've gotta scribble your name on the rest of them to get away from the collector. I heard the same familiar spiels- Eminent Domain, Electoral Reform, etc. One woman I was with asked to read the petitions before she signed. The harvester-drone gave her an obscenity and waded off into the crowd.

I've pretty much quit signing initiative petitions here. They are backed by shadowy behind-the-scenes groups who are trying to bypass the legislative process, and have no interest in where the funds for their schemes will come from. You sign for a group called Families United for Trees so they can "preserve California's forest heritage for future generations." Then when it's passed, you find out you've voted to allow the Wood Pulp Industry to dump sulfuric acid into the few remaining salmon runs.

The people gathering these petitions are paid by the signature. They don't want to discuss the issues. They don't want input. They're just down-on-their-luck harvester drones who're being used to manipulate and highjack the most populous state in the nation. Often, the gatherers are people I would like to sympathize with and give a helping hand of support to. That's what the shadowy sponsor groups count on.

The whole initiative process is an oil-filled shipwreck. It sounds like participatory Democracy. But the words "Participatory Democracy" have been turned upside down and stuffed with a new kind of poison. Corrupt and maddening as the legislative process is, it's way preferable to this turkey.

[Mz Pip]

64. I won't sign any petitions either

When they get on the ballot we get a text of the measure in a voter's guide. They are often long on legalese and short on clarity. They often sound like they are for a good cause but usually end up benefitting some special interest group. The other problem is the cost of these initiatives once they become law. People vote for things because better education sounds good, or cancer funding sounds good but don't bother to read how much it will cost the state.

I've been yelled at by petition takers. "You're against children!" No, dude, I'm against the initiatve process. Big difference.

IF this measure passes, it could be challenged in court, but it would take a long time to work the challenge through the system. Even if it didn't hold up in court that might not be apparent until the middle of Mitwit's term. Damage done.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Niche]

47. They are sneaking it in under a stack of other

petitions. We caught it at the grocery store - The man collecting signatures told me I forgot to sign it. I told him I wasn't GOING TO SIGN IT. Many people are signing without knowing it's there.


Who do we report this to? Anyone know?

[DeepModem Mom]

53. Here is contact info for the organization fighting this:

Web: http://www.CourageCampaign.org

Email: "[e-mail]"

Phone: [phone]

Fax: [phone]

Courage Campaign
9663 Santa Monica Boulevard, No. 166
Beverly Hills, California 90210

[xxqqqzme]

78. Good information @ the Courage Campaign site.

It was reported at our last DFA meeting that gatherers are getting paid @5.50/signature!

On a conference call last summer w/ Courage Campaign on this issue, their Democratic pollster said 48% of the voters, when this initiative is presented in a unbiased way, would support it. I find that 30% number unreal.

I think if the CDP would frame this as a way to steal California voters' power, it would fail. I've seen some pretty crappy initiatives get on the ballot and the stooopid CA voters fall for the crap. That's how we got '3 strikes' passed as well as undocumented workers being denied driver's licenses.

The parental notification is making another comeback - third time since '04. It was defeated by a larger margin in '06 than in '04. But the publicans have more money than they know what to do with, so they keep paying signatures gatherers. This time the parental notification mandates jail time for a doctor who fails to tell the parents that their child is seeking a termination.

[Joanne98]

54. I hope we have somebody ready to challege all the signatures

[xchrom]

58. recommend

[kelliebrat]

70. K&R

:kick: :dem:

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

71. Some stats from the CA Sec. of State:

As of 2005:

Total registered voters: 15.8 million

Total registered Democrats: 6.8 million (43%)

Total registered Republicans: 5.5 million (35%)


53 Congressional Districts:

33 Districts with majority Democrats

20 Districts with majority Republicans

[rodeodance]

77. dang it

[Raine]

79. Turn about will be fair play

if they do it to us our side can do the same to them and take some of their red states and divide those votes.:P