CIA erred and had tapes in September 11 conspirator case

[robertpaulsen]

Source: Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The CIA erred in twice telling a court in the case of September 11 conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui that it did not have any recordings of interrogations of "enemy combatants," when in fact it had three video or audio tapes, according to a letter released on Tuesday.

Prosecutors only recently learned of the tapes from the CIA, they said in the letter to the judge who presided over the case and to a U.S. appeals court that considered the Moussaoui case.

In court declarations on May 9, 2003 and on November 14, 2005, the CIA stated the government did not have any video or audio tapes of the interrogations. Moussaoui initially sought the testimony of several top al Qaeda witnesses as part of his defense.

When it made both declarations, the CIA in fact possessed two video tapes and an audio tape of the unidentified "enemy combatant" interrogations, the prosecutors said.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1362605320071113

[williesgirl]

1. Fucking liars all of them. rec'd

[Up2Late]

2. Good, so what happens now?

Any guesses?

I hadn't heard about this CIA claim, but I'm sure most close to this case knew they would find something like this.

It's like what the Nazis did at the WW2 Death camps, they kept very extensive records and photographs of what they were doing. Why, we can only guess now.

[JDPriestly]

18. Underlings in authoritarian systems must keep careful records

One of the ways the powerful keep the underlings under control. By requiring the underlings to keep careful records, the powerful remind the underlings that the underlings are not free agents. This does not just happen in government. It also happens in certain companies.

Perhaps on the other side the underlings feel less of a sense of responsibility for the things they do if they write a record or report to a superior describing what they have done. Perhaps it is a way of shifting responsibility to the superior.

[babylonsister]

3. Just imagine what else this cabal and their enablers have lied about.

The mind boggles even more.

[Gonnuts]

4. We live in very dark times

There was a short period with-in the history of this nation that the promise broke through. That's all over. The Beasts of War run the show now. They took control of our fragile democratic/republic by using the very freedoms it provides to destroy everything good about this country.

[NoodleyAppendage]

5. So, who is held responsible for perjury or obstruction of justice?

The "whoops look what I found" excuse doesn't wash for citizens, so it should not hold for the criminals in our government. Hang 'em high.

J

[FREEWILL56]

8. I would imagine those that testified falsely would get the charges

of obstruction of justice and perjury. We all know they were instructed to lie by those higher up too. I would imagine now that the judge has to decide if this could've changed the outcome of the case and if he deems that it could have that he must release him from being found guilty and his sentence.

[jberryhill]

19. Except he wasn't "found guilty" - He pled guilty

The only thing the trial was about was sentencing, and the government lost. The jury options were life without parole or death. The jury went for life without parole.

This information doesn't change his guilty plea.

[loudsue]

28. It certainly COULD change his guilty plea. If those videos show torture,

it could be argued that the guilty plea was extracted under duress and threats, which would throw out the plea, and render it invalid.

[jberryhill]

31. Ummm....

The recordings in question are not those of Moussaoui. I gather you aren't very familiar with his case. The judge refused to allow him to enter a guilty plea for quite some time. After the first time he tried to plead guilty, Judge Leona Brinkema ordered independent psychiatric evaluation before she would even consider accepting his plea.

After that:

7/18/2002: Moussaoui entered a guilty plea, stating, "I have knowledge and I participated in Al-Qaeda. I am a member of Al-Qaeda... I pledge bayat to Osama Bin Laden." The Court rejected the guilty plea as unconsidered and ordered Moussaoui to rethink his plea.

7/28/2002: Moussaoui pled guilty to four of six counts of conspiracy. He denied charges of conspiracy to murder United States employees and destroy property.

Today, I truthfully will enter on some of the charges, not all, a plea of guilty... It should not be misunderstood that I endorse the entire indictment. There is enough factual basis for me to plead guilty in a truthful manner.

The Court rejected the guilty plea as too informal and reappointed his counsel. Moussaoui's response to this order to work with court-appointed counsel was, "It is most disgusting."

This went on for quite some time before she accepted a guilty plea from him.

At that point, the only thing the trial was about was the sentence. The government wanted death, but Moussaoui's attorney successfully argued for life without parole.

The government LOST this case.

The only threats he got were from the judge after his repeated attempts to plead guilty.

You are confusing a guilty plea with a confession attempted to be entered as evidence. Yes, the problem with out of court confessions is precisely what you describe.

However, you can't just skip into court on a capital charge and say, "I'm guilty". In order to even accept your plea, the judge has to walk you through all of the facts that would in fact support the plea. This wasn't done in some hidden cell somewhere. This was done in open court with public spectators and the works.

[loudsue]

38. You're right, jberry....I didn't know all of that.

:hi: Thanks for the explanation. I just posted & ran, and just got back to this thread.

[mallard]

43. Re: he plead guilty ...

... after they turned the stooge into a complete meatball.

[jberryhill]

44. How did he pass the psychiatric exam?

You're thinking of Jose Padilla. Much different situation there.

What made Moussaoui's case interesting was that the guy kept trying to plead guilty, and the court kept refusing to accept his plea.

I don't know how you turn someone into enough of a "meatball" to be that persistent. He was very goal-oriented the entire time.

[Toots]

42. Perjury really isn't a crime in GOP land unless of course a Democrat does it.

In fact it is a badge of honor...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. Erred? Or bloody lied in open court?

This is sanctionable stuff. No judge, not even conservatives appointed by Raygun, Bush1 take this lightly. I am not so sure about Bush2's appointees, though.

[texpatriot2004]

7. "Bloody lied in open court" lied through their teeth they did nm

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. That's the stuff reversals on appeal are made of.

not simply sent back for retrial, but out and out reversal.

[Seabiscuit]

15. Indeed, they may rule that it violated the defendant's right to a fair trial.

The problem with the government violating basic constitutional rights in a criminal trial is that not only does it often result in the innocent being sent to prison, it may also result in the guilty going free.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. which brings us to waterboarding, and worse.

and every lawyer who warned against those types of actions has been pushed aside. Cheney, BUsh, and Gonzo are war criminals.

[jberryhill]

21. Except the government *lost* the trial

The only issue for trial in this case was sentencing, since the defendant pled guilty, and Judge Brinkema wouldn't initially accept his guilty plea. He put up a pretty good fight in order to plead guilty.

From there on, the government wanted a death sentence, and his counsel argued, successfully, for life without parole.

There's nothing to reverse there. He won.

[AuntPatsy]

13. Exactly, no erring there, out and out lying, nothing more.

[leveymg]

10. The tapes the defense was looking for was of the KSM interrogation and that of Ramzi bin al Sheibh,

I recall. Both were captured a full year after 9/11 in Lahore, Pakistan.

The testimony of either of them would be very useful in establishing whether or not Moussaoui was really a knowing part of the 9/11 attack, or merely a diversion, chaff cast overboard to draw attention away from Atta & company.

None of this lessens the guilt the CIA actually has for its refusal to turn over files to John O'Neill's FBI National Security Unit in NY when demanded in July 2001. The Agency had highly relevant surveillance materials gathered at the January 2000 Al Qaeda planning summit in Kuala Lumpur. That meeting was, in fact, attended by Ramzi, and two of the Flt. 77 hijackers, at which the 9/11 attack and the USS Cole bombing were discussed in detail. The pair, Alhazmi and Almidhar, were followed by the CIA to the meeting and afterwards as they transited on through Bangkok, arriving at LA Airport on 01.15.00, where they met up with a Saudi intelligence officer who provided them with a room in San Diego and money rawn from an account at Riggs Bank kept by the wife of the Saudi Ambassador, Sheikh Bandar, a long-time pal of President Bush.

The CIA says it notified the FBI at the time of the pair's entry at LAX, but the Bureau has no record that cable was actually sent from the CIA Director's Counter-Terrorism Center, then commanded by Cofer Black, later given diplomatic immunity by the Bush Administration, before being richly rewarded with a board seat at Blackwater.

BTW: this wouldn't be the first time that Agency personnel "erred" in production of 9/11 evidence. See, Scoop: UQ Wire: Tenet Lied Under Oath To 9/11 Commission
www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0406/S00098.htm

The really important tapes are those taken of the meeting in Kuala Lumpur by the Agency and what George Tenet described as "half a dozen allied agencies" who were lurking around. But, the CIA and FBI claim, they don't seem to have bothered to tape that meeting. See, http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00257.htm

[hootinholler]

11. JCOATH!

-Hoot

[antiimperialist]

12. erred is euphemism for 'lied"

I hate how the mainstream media hates to tell it like it is.

[shanti]

16. "mistakes were made"

of course they lied. that's a given.

[BornagainDUer]

33. Yea, the mistake was not doing a very good job of

hiding the tapes. :crazy:

[bbgrunt]

14. didn't something like this happen in the McVeigh cas too? This

is Fooking unreal.

[barbtries]

20. erred? erred?

give me a fucking break.

[whistle]

22. Just how odious is this?

[rodeodance]

23. CIA admits to recording interrogations of top al Qaida captives

Source: mcclatchy





CIA admits to recording interrogations of top al Qaida captives
By Greg Gordon | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007


WASHINGTON — The CIA has three video and audio recordings of interrogations of senior al Qaida captives but misled federal judges about the evidence during the case against terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui, federal prosecutors revealed in a Nov. 9 court filing that was made public Tuesday.

The disclosure is unlikely to undo Moussaoui's conviction because the agency said the material on the tapes doesn't pertain to his case.

However, the disclosure that the government taped some interrogations of high-value detainees could invite fresh scrutiny of the CIA's treatment of so-called "enemy combatants" who were held at secret prisons or U.S. bases overseas.

John Radsan, a former CIA assistant general counsel who teaches at the William Mitchell College of Law in St. Paul, Minn., called the revelation of the tapes "huge" news.



Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/21474.html

---

bush's admin will unravel before the end of his term....

[rodeodance]

24. called the revelation of the tapes "huge" news.

[mallard]

25. how huge?

Could it be big enough a story to keep the tapes from being destroyed - to let us all see what they're doing with suspects from another religion and culture?

[KoKo]

34. We might hope these tapes will show torture but what if they are doctored the other way?

What if the tapes show such humane treatment that CNN will focus on them for days. How can we know that the discovery of these tapes is going to unravel Bush when we know how they lie and falsify evidence.

:shrug: I hope the opposite is true...but by now we should have learned that nothing is what it seems when there's anything close to looking like it could bring them down in scandal.

[Solly Mack]

26. "...misled federal judges about the evidence..."

...


k/r

[happygoluckytoyou]

27. oh wait.... you mean do we HAVE any tapes... i though you said GRAPES

[0007]

29. I wonder what tomorrow will bring! nt

[Vickers]

30. "The CIA erred" "the CIA stated" "the CIA in fact possessed two video tapes"

Who are the *people* behind this?

The CIA doesn't do shit...PEOPLE are criminally culpable for this asshattery.

[Supersedeas]

32. DoJ attorneys caught lying under oath -- ah, plausible deniability again

[Imagevision]

35. "The CIA erred" The FBI erred,-Bush was given faulty intel from Tenet, the US.

will never be the same if Bush & Cheney are allowed to escape free without prosecution of war crimes.

[Henny Penny]

36. Forget the war on Terror.....

and lets have....

"The war on ERROR"!!!!

This will instil a lot more fear than the old war (at least amongst those that "have something to fear..." you all know who I mean...)

[roxnev]

37. Definition of Republican

LIAR teller of non truths. Thief taking from the poor.

[Sam Ervin jret]

39. Maybe if WE WATER BOARED THE CIA they could tell the truth.

It would be a change. And I bet we would have NO trouble finding volunteers to do the work.

[fascisthunter]

40. Well, Well, Well.... how disgusting

Our goernment has a lot of explaining to do. Especially the Bush admin and it's many messed-in-the-heads neocon nutcases.

[sofa king]

41. What, you mean just like the Oswald impersonator tapes?

Who would have thought they'd make that same mistake twice?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oswald/conspiracy/newman.html