Bush offers to bomb Kurds

[Robbien]

Source: Australian News

THE Bush Administration is considering air strikes, including cruise missiles, against the Kurdish rebel group PKK in northern Iraq.

The move would be an attempt to stave off a Turkish invasion of that country to fight the rebels.

. . .

While the use of US soldiers on the ground to root out the PKK would be the last resort, the US would be willing to launch air strikes on PKK targets, the official said, and has discussed the use of cruise missiles.

But air strikes using manned aircraft may be an easier option because the US controls the air space over Iraq.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22636940-663,00.html

---

Same news story in all Australian, Turkish, Indian and some UK news sites.

Edit: Found a US article. From the Chicago Trib under the headline "U.S. air strikes on PKK weighed"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-turkey23oct23,1,355556.story
Bush assured the Turkish president that the U.S. was looking seriously into options beyond diplomacy to stop the attacks coming from Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq. "It's not 'Kumbaya' time anymore -- just talking about trilateral talks is not going to be enough," the official said. "Something has to be done."

[Mojambo]

1. Do what you know. That's what they always say... n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

2. and he condemned hussien for this kind of

crap?

i have to go scream myself to sleep

this world is so bizarre.

[ixion]

33. he also condemned him for torture...

but that didn't stop * from ordering torture.


and you're right... this world is bizarre. That we tolerate this crap is an allegedly free and democratic nation really boggles the mind. :crazy:

[grytpype]

39. Yep.

[soothsayer]

3. Besting dad again. Poppy just left them hanging out to dry so Saddam could roll over them.

Junior's going to actively kill them himself!

[TwilightGardener]

4. Oh great!

So now we're fighting for Israel AND Turkey. Any other countries have any other enemies they'd like us to take out while we're at it, drop us a line and we'll take a look.

[razors edge]

8. Worse than that,

both the US and Israel were funding and training the PKK.

Seymour Hursh wrote about it in November 06.

[tinrobot]

18. Great for war profiteers, though...

Sell the Kurds weapons from the US... then use US weapons to destroy the weapons you just sold them.

Doubly profitable... and doubly sickening.

[gratuitous]

5. Isn't that special?

Gee, an "offer" to drop bombs on a bunch of prople who can't fight back, can't get away, and who are no threat to us whatsoever. Just makes you . . . well, maybe "proud" isn't quite the word I'm looking for. But by golly, I am an American.

[Journeyman]

6. All that, and nominally our friends and allies, too. . .

Gotta admit -- though everything that's happened so far was foretold before the IraqAttaq was launched, I don't remember anyone predicting BushCo would eventually kill their own friends in order to save them. Shades of Vietnamese villages. They've finally done it -- proposed a crime that will surprise everyone. . .

[mike_c]

7. LOL-- Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds so he was the mideast Hitler...

...so Bush offers to bomb them. God, I live to see him in the dock at The Hague.

[olddad56]

9. with gas that we provided him, during the Iraq vs. Iran conflict.

[olddad56]

11. give them a little taste of Bush sytle democracy.

[madrchsod]

10. with the gas and sat photos we supplied him!

[davekriss]

73. What an immense cluster****

People rarely win wars, governments rarely lose them. People get killed. Governments molt and regroup, hydra-headed. They first use flags to shrink-wrap peoples' minds and suffocate real thought, and then as ceremonial shrouds to cloak the mangled corpses of the willing dead.
-- Arundhati Roy

[eppur_se_muova]

12. Making friends and influencing people ... by killing them. nt

[Amonester]

70. And the saint kool-aid drinkers want the world to believe...

the war-criminal blivet is pro-life, no less.

Go figure... :cry:

[Dover]

13. Turkish Daily News

The PKK to declare ceasefire, says Talabani
Tuesday, October 23, 2007

But it is not clear if the US will use muscle to persuade Kurds to take action against terrorists

ÜMİT ENGİNSOY
WASHINGTON - Turkish Daily News


Iraqi President Jalal Talabani said Monday the PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party) would announce a unilateral ceasefire amid Turkish threats to launch an incursion against them in northern Iraq. "The PKK has decided to declare a ceasefire from their side tonight," Talabani told reporters at Sulaimaniyah airport in Iraq's northern Kurdish region before flying to Baghdad. Abdul Rahman al-Chadirchi would not confirm the ceasefire but told AFP the group would make a statement later on Monday. Talk of a ceasefire comes with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan threatening an imminent incursion into Iraq unless Baghdad clamps down on the PKK and hands over its leaders. Meanwhile, The White House on Monday urged the Iraqi government to act swiftly to stop Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq from mounting further cross-border attacks into Turkey. aid, "We do not want to see wider military action on the northern border," Reuters quoted White House spokesman Tony Fratto.

In a separate statement Gordon Johndroe, spokesman for the White House National Security Council said the United States will work with Turkey and Iraq to deal with Kurdish rebels."The U.S. is committed to working with the Turks and Iraqis to deal with the PKK terrorist problem," said Jondroe on Monday. The statement followed the call by U.S. President George W. Bush on Sunday explicitly urging Iraqi Kurds to act swiftly to stop attacks by the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) on Turkish targets from bases in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq.Iraqi ministers told parliament in a special session yesterday that no troops could be spared to pursue the PKK separatists, but vowed to cut supplies to the militants in an attempt to ward off the threat of a Turkish incursion. Iraqi Defence Minister Abdel Qader al-Obeidi appeared to put the onus on the American military to take action by saying that security in Iraq was the responsibility of the US-led coalition forces. Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's top aide Sami al-Askari told AFP that Obeidi had insisted Iraqi troops could not be spared as they were needed for maintaining security in the rest of the country. He also said Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari had announced that he was expecting his Turkish counterpart Ali Babacan in Baghdad for crisis talks on Tuesday.
"Zebari also said in parliament that an Iraqi delegation is expected to visit Turkey soon to continue the dialogue with Ankara," said al-Askari. The special session of the Iraqi parliament was called after 12 Turkish soldiers were killed in heavy clashes over the border in Turkey on Sunday, further raising tensions between Baghdad and Ankara. In the main Kurdish cities of Arbil and Sulaiymaniah, residents said they feared the economic cost of any Turkish military action and some had even started stockpiling food. "The continuing Turkish threats may result in closing the borders which brings about large (economic) damage," said Bahaa al-Din Muhi al-Din, the 43-year-old owner of a company importing products from Turkey to Sulaimaniyah. "It is true the borders have not been closed yet, but if it happened it would result in large damages." The PKK, meanwhile, threatened to disrupt Iraq's oil supplies through Turkey if they were attacked by the Turkish military. "The oil pipleine between Turkey and Iraq inside the Turkish territories will be on of our targets," rebel leader Murad Qiralian said, according to AFP.



Will US seriously pressure Kurds?

Cont'd
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=86583

[Alcibiades]

14. Relax, the PKK is safe

If Saddam couldn't eliminate them and if the Turks can't eliminate them, it might have something to do with the fact that they are a guerrilla force operating among friendly people in inhospitable, mountainous terrain. The amount of ordinance we dropped on Vietnam proved that you cannot bomb a well-prepared, dedicated guerrilla army out of existence.

Kurdish villages, on the other hand, are another matter. Thousands will die.

[14thColony]

32. Small but important distinction

I risk being pedantic, but it's important to point out that the PKK/KGK/Kongra Gel were never the target of Hussein's ANFAL campaigns into Kurdish territory in northern Iraq. His targets were the Iraqi Kurds who live in the population centers and the lowlands of northern Iraq. The PKK are so far up in the remote mountains of the north that Iraqi forces never got anywhere near them, and probably would have ignored them anyway.

But your point is exactly right in that no amount of bombing will eliminate the PKK. In their last punitive campaign into northern Iraq (late 1990s), the Turkish Army sent in 40,000 troops with tanks, artillery, commandos, and air power to permanently deal with the PKK. Result: the PKK are still here and with very little long-term affect.

This will only end when Turkey deals with the root cause, which is their historical treatment of the Kurdish minority, and the Kurds' understandable desire for self-determination and recognition. I like the Turks and always enjoy my time in Turkey, but military force will not solve this problem (it rarely solves any problem in the long-term).

[bbgrunt]

15. I am going to puke.

[DearAbby]

16. Comeon this is a nightmare and I am dreaming

m'kay, I am ready to wake up now.

[TheFarseer]

17. no no, we should gas them.

wait, that sounds familiar. . . . . . .

[BrightKnight]

19. Not the sharpest crayon in the box

A diplomatic solution with the Kurds would be more likely to have a positive result.

I recommend that Chimpy resign and delegate to job to an administration with a clue.

[rodeodance]

20. ."If the U.S. starts bombing PKK camps in the north, Turkey will be ablaze tomorrow,"

...."If the U.S. starts bombing PKK camps in the north, Turkey will be ablaze tomorrow," said Qubad Talabany, spokesman for the Kurdistan Regional Government in Washington.

He added that the pesh merga has already formed a sort of security belt around the PKK to keep the fighters from coming down from the mountains into the cities of Iraqi Kurdistan. The only long-term solution, the regional government said, would be for it to be part of a serious dialogue among Turkey, the U.S. and Iraq. It complained that it is currently being left out of any discussions.

Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh, a Kurd who visited the White House on Monday, said at a Brookings appearance, "My worry is that there are demands of the KRG and the Iraqi government to 'fight the PKK.' That could well be a recipe for an open-ended conflict in which we will not win and will basically destabilize the only stable part of Iraq."

Rice issued a statement with British Foreign Secretary David Miliband, calling on Baghdad and the Kurdistan Regional Government to "take immediate steps to halt PKK operations from Iraqi territory."

[cambie]

21. TKM

In case you thought we were protecting the Kurds:
http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=304

[pingzing58]

22. And we'll see women and children dead because of this bombing! Evil.

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. "Hegel said that all great world historical events and personages

appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: The first time as tragedy, the second as farce."

- Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte

[Gregorian]

24. Bush family values- killing families.

Sorry. But if I had something more valuable to say I would say it. What can one do when the power to use my tax dollars has been given to a group of madmen.

[babylonsister]

25. Gee, thanks, Americans, but we really aren't ready for 'that'. nt

[Baby Snooks]

26. "That man tried to kill my Daddy"

So much for the supposed genocide committed by Saddam Hussein - shall we hang Bush as well if he does launch an attack? The hypocrisy, and the evil, of the Bushes is just overwhelming. As is the hypocrisy of Congress that it allows the evil to continue.

We are killing the very people Saddam Hussein killed. When he killed them, they were innocent civilians but when we kill them, they are suddenly insurgents and rebels. Madness. The rebels seek independence. And the restoration of the Kurds as a people. They have been oppressed by Iraq, Syria, Iran and Turkey.

Their tactics, however, have disrupted the civil order in all four countries. Their fight, however, is for their people. It is a matter the United Nations should have considered a long time ago. The United Nations turned its head to the situation as did the United States in 1988. When Bush declared we were liberating the Iraqi people he apparently did not include liberation of the Kurds.

The reality of Saddam Hussein is he kept civil order in Iraq, although most would question his methods and most would condemn his acts, but the reality of George W Bush is he has allowed civil disorder to rule in Iraq and in fact invited it in order to divide the country. Divide and conquer. And then take the oil.

[HuffleClaw]

27. erm, isn't this what saddam was executed for doing? n/t

[DRoseDARs]

28. That's right, piss off the ONE group in Iraq that DOESN'T hate us. TRIFECTA!!!

It's Bush's sick version of Yahtzee!

[aquart]

29. WHAT????

No Kurd killing. I have spoken.

[14thColony]

30. This has been bandied about several times since

we invaded Iraq in 2003. It just never got any press up til now. In my previous job I was closely involved in those other episodes when the Turkish Army massed at the border and threatened to go in, only to back off eventually. This is a long-running festering sore, and I can honestly say I can see merit and guilt on all sides of the issue.

First, the PKK (they actually call themselves Kongra Gele Kurdistan now) are a Turkish Kurd movement that sought refuge in N Iraq back in Hussein's time. Politically Marxist, they were the inevitable violent reaction to the Turkish Republic's decades-long suppression of the substantial Kurdish minority in SE Turkey. While some PKK/KGK members are Syrian, Iraqi, and even Iranian Kurds, they are still dominated by the Turkish element. In general the two Iraqi Kurd groups, the KDP and PUK (the ones Hussein played off against one another and we allegedly went in to protect with no fly zones) really don't care that much about the PKK, and kinda see them as annoying 'guests' who they really wish would just leave. At one time or another the KDP and PUK have both allied with and fought against the PKK AND the Hussein government AND the Turkish armed forces. Kurdish politics are Machievellian. Basically they tolerate the PKK so long as they stay up in their remote mountain areas and don't bother the Iraqi Kurds, but they would love to see them gone. Calls of Kurdish unity and support for PKK from the PUK and KDP are mostly proforma.

And the ugly reality is that, while the PKK is mainly a nationalist political movement with a pretty damned good guerilla army, they have also carried out more than their share of terror attacks on the Turkish population. Real terrorism, as in bombing coffee shops and malls, blowing up tourists in buses to dry up the tourism industry, etc. etc. Unlike many 'terrorist groups' (and they're really a guerilla movement that employs terrorism in small quantities) PKK is much less violent, but nonetheless they do knowingly and willfully target average Turks on the streets of the western Turkish cities, well outside the Kurdish regions, for the sole purpose of intimidating the Turkish population and pressuring the government to acquiesce to their demands. While I understand the centuries-long roots and sympathise with the WHY, it is nonetheless terrorism. Of course at the same time the vast majority of PKK are 'regular soldiers' who operate against the Turkish Army in SE Turkey and generally steer clear of the local population; in fact they try very hard to follow the laws of armed conflict; in the past they have taken Turkish soldiers as POWs and treated them pretty well. This internal Turkish war has since the 1980s claimed over 30,000 lives on both sides of the struggle.

So whatever the cause, the reality is that a NATO ally (Turkey) is suffering repeated violent attacks (terror and conventional) from a declared terrorist group (by the EU, US, UK, others) which is totally safe and unimpeded due to their location in the 'safe zone' of northern Iraq. Consider for a moment that a similar group was located in camps about 20km south of the Mexican border and was running cross-border attacks into Texas and New Mexico which had over 20 years claimed more than 30,000 US lives. But that group was declared off-limits because France was in the midst of trying to stabilize Mexico and didn't want to deal with yet another headache. Show of hands, who thinks we would have told France to go to hell and would have invaded anyway? Most nations would have. Turkey has actually shown nearly limitless restraint on this issue to be honest, although again THEY CAUSED THIS TO BEGIN WITH due to their long-term treatment of their Kurdish citizens.

Again, it's easy to sympathize with both sides on this, and (as long as they are not killing innocents of any nationality) I have sympathy for the PKK due to the long-term history that has brought them to this point.

As for the dynamics of an airstrike, perversely the PKK's strong position in mountainous N Iraq actually makes them incredibly vulnerable to airstrikes. There are very very few villages up there, and most are well away from the PKK camps. The PKK are a traditional guerilla army, so they also don't condone non-combatants (non-fighting spouses, kids) in their camps. Which means they are big wide-open targets for an airstrike. And in the process of such strikes we would support a NATO ally against a declared terrorist group (good), ignoring the fact that Turkey caused most of this problem and the Kurds have legitimate concerns (bad) while alienating and inflaming a heavily-armed, well-trained, and well-equipped guerilla army of over 5,000 troops who up until this point have generally had a favorable or at least neutral view of the US and have basically tried to stay away from us (way way very bad). Obviously the last thing we want is the one stable part of Iraq to suddenly explode on us as well, bringing in yet another large group of new-found enemies while utterly pissing off (at least officially) the Iraqi Kurd groups.

This is a three-way quandry of the worst type, since all sides have a legitimate point and valid arguments. I think we will desperately stall until winter sets in, causing a halt to most large-scale PKK and Turkish operations, and thus freezing the issue until next Spring. By then Iraq will be just peachy and everything will be so much better.

[DeSwiss]

63. Thank you.

That was very informative. :)

And welcome to DU!

[krispos42]

31. Let's destabilize Iraqi Kurdistan before attacking Iran

Always reinforce failure, never reinforce defeat. The best defense is a bad offense. Brilliant military strategies, all of them.

:sarcasm:

[jzodda]

34. What idiots, have they looked at the terrain in that region?

Remember late 2001 when we tried to bomb bin laden back to the stone age in his mountain hideouts? Well it did nothing, and ground troops were needed and sent in too late to really do anything. Same here, mountain terrain with many hiding places. Bombing is useless and will surely anger the rest of the Kurds in north Iraq. What a mess we are in, and a mess we created.

[Roland99]

35. "This is *MY* war, Turkey. You keep your hands off. Gobble Gobble!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK1ekhovFeU

[onehandle]

36. Bush = Saddam. nt

[conspirator]

37. But I am sure iraqis preferred Saddam. Better be killed by a brother than a stranger nt

[lovuian]

Don't mess with the Kirkuk oil fields those are ours

its going to get tense because its all about those oil fields

[grytpype]

38. Does anyone think the Kurds will stand for this?

The Kurdish peshmerga are the only part of the Iraqi security forces that are on our side.

They are also the only part that is worth a damn.

And they won't be too happy about this.

[Supersedeas]

40. there is not a conflict that can't resolve with an Airstrike and a bomb

[Vidar]

41. The major difference between Bush & Saddam is that Sadam

actually provided a stable government under which many people were reasonably well off, although many innocents were tortured and killed. Under Bush, only a very few fellow criminals are well off and 90% of the population is subject to torture and death.

[Ganja Ninja]

42. Bomb the Kurds?!!! ... Brilliant!

Oh Lord! Make it stop! :banghead:

Is there anybody this guy isn't willing/eager to kill?

[Javaman]

43. My tinfoilness is appearing on my brain again..

bate and switch, moron* is looking for any means what so ever to bring the Iranians into the fold so he can stage his false flag op.

well it's been long known that the Iranians have no love loss for the Kurds and have also been shelling the Kurds all the while the Turks have been.

so suppose, now that moron* starts bombing the kurds, this gets the kurds pissed off at us (moron* is good that way) and they strike some sort of bizarre deal with the Iranians (enemy of my enemy...etc) and suddenly the Iranians start helping the kurds, if only temporarily.

it's only a matter of connecting the bomb craters at that point to pin a false flag op on them.

of course irregardless of the fact that moron* has pissed off yet another group of people in the middle east, he* still gets his* war and a chance to make Iran glow.

moron* can't create a false flag outright against american troops because, contrary to popular believe, he* sees how iraq has turned to shit and if he* stages something, he* probably be road out on a rail.

So it has to start via a third party.

Turks get their oil spigot back in Kirkuk, moron* gets his war by helping a fellow NATO nation.

[Faygo Kid]

44. Been a while since he bombed a new place. If only he could kill Karla Faye Tucker again. . .

You get a taste for this sort of thing, if you are George W. Bush. After a while, you miss it.

[yurbud]

45. Bush offers to bomb Kurds (for Turks)

Source: Herald Sun--Australia, various agencies

THE Bush Administration is considering air strikes, including cruise missiles, against the Kurdish rebel group PKK in northern Iraq.

The move would be an attempt to stave off a Turkish invasion of that country to fight the rebels.

President George Bush spoke with Turkish President Abdullah Gul by phone yesterday in an effort to ease the crisis.

And Prime Minister John Howard says the tensions on the Turkey-Iraq border will not help the west's battle for democracy in Iraq.


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22636940-663,00.html

---

The Kurds are the one group in Iraq that don't hate our guts. So much for that.

[hobbit709]

46. How to win friends and influence people-the bushco way.

[TwilightGardener]

47. "Ya want me to beat 'em up for ya?"

[Fresh_Start]

48. Kurds are the group that supported Al Queda

before 9/11. Of course, they love Bush.

He helped their buddies Al Queda succeed AND
he also moved them from being outside the Political power in Iraq to being a major player.

I always found it ridiculous that the only group we helped in IRaq were the Kurds that aided Al queda.

[Tempest]

49. If the Kurds are stupid enough to trust another Bush

They deserve whatever they get.

[shain from kane]

50. Little Mister Toughie, sat on his ass so huffy, trying to keep the Kurds away,

along came Turkey, and Oh sh*t, he was f*cked.

[Journeyman]

51. Gotta admit -- though everything that's happened so far. . .

was foretold before the IraqAttaq was launched, I don't remember anyone predicting BushCo would eventually kill their own friends in order to save them. Shades of Vietnamese villages. They've finally done it -- proposed a crime that will surprise everyone. . .

[Hydra]

60. Actually, I called it

but I said it would be the Fundie lunatics when they demanded something that Bush wasn't willing to give them.

Bushco has no problem with turning on their "allies"- they are just stepping stones.

[tekisui]

52. Please, Turkey don't bomb the Kurds!!!

We'll do it for you! Unbelievable. Chimpy wants to be the one to destabilize the region of Iraq nearest to calm. I guess he feels he hasn't finished to job.

[tomg]

53. Torture. Bombing the Kurds. A

planned war with Iran. I thought Saddam was dead.

[Botany]

54. he keeps digging the hole deeper

[Evergreen Emerald]

55. but, isnt that why Saddam was hung?

killing his own people?

[Wilber_Stool]

56. We'll get Lt. Minderbinder on it right away.

After all, if it's good for the syndicate, it's good for the country.

[NovaNardis]

57. And Prime Minister John Howard

needs to shut up and go away. Either pony up a legit amount of troops, or you have no voice in this discussion. Quiet. Adults are speaking.

[Joe for Clark]

58. Desperate move of a desperate man -

They don't believe him anyway. The logical question Turkey asks -well, if you can really do that now, why didn't you deal with the PKK before?

We don't have a deal to stop it this time.

Joe

[harun]

59. Once people start killing it seems it just gets easier and easier for them

to kill some more.

[amandabeech]

61. If some high-quality U.S. armed forces were to go into PKK territory

with the other Kurds who don't like the PKK, with the blessing of the Iraqi central government and the regional Kurdish government, to try to talk or knock some sense into the PKK, I'd say O.K. Shrub has ruled this out, apparently.

Bombs and missiles will hurt lots of non-combatants and will only piss off more Kurds. The PKK, of course, will survive and start attacking the U.S. and other Iraqi groups as well.

This is just such a cluster**&^%$ that I can't believe it. Anybody care to predict which countries or groups the U.S. will be at war with when the shrub and vader leave office?

I'd add to Iraq and Afghanistan: Kosovo (in a proxy war with Russia), Kurdistan, Pakistan, Syria and Lebanon. I would expect to see some clashes between U.S. and Mexican irregulars of some sort along the southern border.

[OKNancy]

62. dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3040895

[booley]

64. Aren't the Kurds the only ones in Iraq who dont' hate us?

Not that we didnt' know this day wasnt' coming.

[yurbud]

65. yep

[Canuckistanian]

66. GHWB helped save the Kurds

Now, the son offers to slaughter them.

Can you spot the difference?

[ohio2007]

67. PKK is on the "terra organization list" so

Not all Kurds are from the same red bolt of cloth





snip
The PKK is listed as a terrorist organization internationally by a number of states and organizations, including the USA, NATO and the EU.<1><3> More than 37,000 people have been killed in the Turkey-PKK conflict since 1984. <8>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party

[Ilsa]

68. Cartoon of irony:

[conspirator]

72. thats a good one nt

[libodem]

69. Am I on a bad acid trip

or has permanent schizophrenia set in? I also heard him condemning Cuba today as a country that imprisons and tortures? WTF?

[DuaneBidoux]

71. Ask any 'Puke: "There's no problem a good bomb can't solve."

[ryanmuegge]

74. Fascinating story.

[knight_of_the_star]

75. What a dipshit!!!

First getting into this situation, now going to take on the ONLY large group in the country that's on our side, what a DIPSHIT!