Bra check upsets court visitor (Forced to Remove)

[RamboLiberal]

Source: SpokesmanReview.com

A Bonners Ferry woman says she was humiliated when security guards at the federal courthouse in Coeur d'Alene told her she'd have to remove her underwire bra to get inside.

Lori Plato said she was going into the courthouse for a court hearing Sept. 20 when the metal detector went off as she passed through security.

"When I walked through, the gentleman said, "'Do you have an underwire bra on?'." Plato said. "I said, 'Yeah.' He said, 'You have to remove it.' "

But there was nowhere private to remove her bra, she said. The guards suggested she go out to her car to do it.

Instead, Plato — who describes herself as "not petite" — said she removed her bra while her husband tried to shield her from view of others in the crowded lobby by holding up his coat.



Read more: http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=11803

---

Read the rest of the story - totally outrageous - they said they gave her options but all of them involved removing the bra. F'ing idiots. Bushworld!

[mike_c]

1. the guards acted totally appropriately in that situation....

This is a post-9/ll world and the woman should have known better than to wear a foundation undergarment to a courthouse, for pete's sake. She's lucky they didn't have to taser her just to make the point. Anyone can convert a bra into a dangerous weapon in a skinny minute, so that sort of stupidity-- I'm not saying she had any malicious intent, just that she was dumber than a brick-- that sort of stupidity simply cannot be tolerated.

Discuss.

[baldguy]

4. Gotta protect us from terra-ist bras

[sam sarrha]

39. and perverted security guards

[icymist]

162. Do you mean 'bra-barian' terra-ists?

Or bra-inless security?

"That's a good girl!"

[qnr]

5. Someone could get their eye poked out! n/t

[DeSwiss]

21. Of course. You're absolutely right....

...why this thing could be labeled a WMD!!!



:rofl:

[AnneD]

86. Weapons of Mammalian Drinking

:rofl:

[liberalla]

37. they make good slingshots...

but honestly, I am one of those women who need an underwire bra and would hate to have this happen to me. I really feel for this woman. It seems like they could have a female security person and a private area where she could be checked discreetly. I don't think she should have had to take it off!

[Donnachaidh]

54. HOGWASH

Fearmongering freaks using their rent a cop station to harrass women. What's she going to do with that underwire -- poke someone's eye out?

Uhh -- stop watching "24" :eyes:

[Caretha]

59. Exactly!

[northzax]

133. you know the metal detector

diesn't say how much metal is present, right? no reason she couldn't have a weapon stashed in her bra (yes, I have had to take off my belt, not quite the same, but still) the only decent solution is a private place for further searching by a female officer (if she chooses) or to remove her clothing without being exposed to the public.

[mike_c]

155. a sense of humor is a wonderful thing....

:rofl:

Now you try it.

[Fly by night]

69. "Dangerous weapon"? Wadda ya' think? Slingshot, garrote, trip-wire?

[immoderate]

89. For all we know, it's a concealed AK-47! She SAYS it's a bra, but...

Maybe she slipped it into her husband's coat. :shrug:

--IMM

[WilliamPitt]

99. Wow.

I'll be the first to say things like "Don't wear circuitboards-and-silly-putty to the airport," but this is a bra. A bra.

Mike...needs to chill. No more kool-aid for you.

[mike_c]

156. dude....

:sarcasm:

There's been way too much authoritarianism around here lately.

[shanti]

101. did you forget your sarcasm smiley?

[mike_c]

157. well, I thought it was self evident, but I guess not....

:rofl:

[leftist_not_liberal]

124. The fear culture

kills any semblance of democracy.

[1monster]

2. Unbelievable what these morans will do... If anyone EVER demanded that I remove my

underwire bra to enter the courthouse (when they have those hand held wands), I'd be finding me a lawyer to file a law suit ASAP.

There is no reasonable excuse for demanding that a woman remove her under garments.

[Bicoastal]

7. Not in public, anyway...

Don't they usually have private rooms and female security guards to conduct strip searches?

[Quantess]

20. But, be reasonable, now.

Everyone knows that Coeur d'Alene, Idaho is crawling with terrorists.
:sarcasm:

[liberalla]

38. yeah, home grown terrorists and militias...

[Quantess]

102. After posting, I remembered the locally bred militias and such.

That would be a legtimate risk in Coeur d'Alene. Ironically, a lot of the locals seem to be worried more about the Muslims, if their support for Bush is any indication.

[fudge stripe cookays]

132. Actually,

Sand Point is just up the road. More of them there.

[enlightenment]

3. Hey, I'd remove mine . . .

and then STRANGLE that arse of a guard with it.

[silverojo]

11. If she was as full-figured as she says

She should've removed the bra...then she should've twisted her torso to take a great big swing, and knock those @#$% guards flat on their butts, with the impact of one of her boobs.

Except then they'd probably require all women to have their breasts cut off before entering courthouses. :eyes:

[barb162]

24. Heh. n/t

[pop goes the weasel]

6. I want to watch

I want to watch when the guards tell the guys that they have to remove their pants because of the zippers.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

8. I would be a lot more scared...

Of one of those 50's "Torpedo" bras. Them things can poke an eye out.

[Paulie]

9. Or a "beehive" hairdoo

They would make you cut it off with a lawnmower.

[0007]

15. Those garter snaps can be deadly also.

[Autumn Colors]

10. And then she had to go through the hearing braless? geez. (nm)

[RamboLiberal]

13. No the perverts had her run it through the screening machine

She said she had to put the bra on a conveyor belt and send it through an x-ray machine.

"After I got through the metal detector and waited for my bra to come through the conveyor belt, one of the security guards said, "'That's a girl,'" Plato said. She thought the guard was making fun of her.

From OP article.

[Alameda]

12. Ann Richards and crotch snaps

I heard a talk once where Ann Richards was talking about the problems she had passing through security and the snaps on her body suit made the wand go off....I miss her! She always had the best comebacks.

http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/governors/modern/richards-p01.html

[AnneD]

87. I miss her too.....

and Molly.

[ProudDad]

14. More police state bullshit...

At least they didn't kill her... :sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3017027

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. They would have to taze me bro

[Boudica the Lyoness]

17. I think I've had enough

After I got through the metal detector and waited for my bra to come through the conveyor belt, one of the security guards said, "'That's a girl,'" Plato said. She thought the guard was making fun of her.

This is not funny. I've lived in this country for 34 years and I'm really wanting really bad to go home. I thought there would be riots in the street after they stole the White House in 2000. It stuns me how many people here at DU are cool with the wild horses being slaughtered. They are murdering people with tasers. They are hog tying and killing middle aged women who are only having a temper tantrum. I want out! I'm thinking of selling the ranch, the 2 business. The dollar, like the country is in the shitter so I'm screwed for the time being. Your health care sucks too. I'm sick of people telling each other this is the best country in the world. Maybe it was in July 1969 but not anymore. My oldest son and his wife are going to move to England and my youngest who's a college freshman wants to emigrate too. I want to live in a country again where I'm treated like a decent human being. I'm angry!

[DrDan]

51. you are not alone in those thoughts

[blondie58]

55. can I come with you???

[JohnyCanuck]

58. I want to live in a country again where I'm treated like a decent human being.

I sympathize with the way you feel, but I wouldn't count on that country you are looking for to be England.

Britain is 'surveillance society'

Fears that the UK would "sleep-walk into a surveillance society" have become a reality, the government's information commissioner has said.

Richard Thomas, who said he raised concerns two years ago, spoke after research found people's actions were increasingly being monitored.

Researchers highlight "dataveillance", the use of credit card, mobile phone and loyalty card information, and CCTV.

Monitoring of work rates, travel and telecommunications is also rising.

There are up to 4.2m CCTV cameras in Britain - about one for every 14 people.

But surveillance ranges from US security agencies monitoring telecommunications traffic passing through Britain, to key stroke information used to gauge work rates and GPS information tracking company vehicles, the Report on the Surveillance Society says.

SNIP

The report coincides with the publication by the human rights group Privacy International of figures that suggest Britain is the worst Western democracy at protecting individual privacy.

The two worst countries in the 36-nation survey are Malaysia and China, and Britain is one of the bottom five with "endemic surveillance".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6108496.stm

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

75. a lot has happened in 34 years

n/t

[Demeter]

71. Can You Take Me With You?

I'm housebroken, domestic even, etc. etc.

Although some of the reports from Britain are frightening, if not just troubling. I'm thinking Venezuela, myself....

[MuseRider]

18. This would piss me off so much that I might

consider standing in line naked from the waist up and dare those motherfuckers to arrest me for public indecency.

bastards

[DRoseDARs]

19. Er, duh? You're not supposed to wear underwire bras in a court, jail, or prison.

The wire can be removed and used either to pick cuffs, locks, or fashioned into a weapon. Now as far as their treatment of her... er, don't they have bathrooms that a female officer could have escorted her to? She was wrong to have worn the underwire bra to a court, but the officers were assholes for how they treated and made fun of her.

[havocmom]

26. Eyeglasses can also be weapons. Are they banned? Bic pens?

This is just plain misogyny hiding behind security

Some of us only have under-wire bras because of our body type.

Total bullshit. How long before we are forced into burqas? Or prevented from going anywhere due to our dangerous underwear?

[DRoseDARs]

30. You loves you some hyperbole, dontcha?

:eyes:

[havocmom]

56. Well, if bras are a threat, eyeglasses are too AND easier to wield

If bras are a threat, but bic pens are not, LOGIC would seem to be missing in the decision making process.

Not hyperbole to suggest that the policy is more about harassment that security, and since GENERALLY it is women who wear under-wire bras ( me and Rudy both know there are exceptions), yes, this particular harassment set into policy is misogyny set into policy.

Any society which would buy the excuse that certain bras could be weapons but the ever handy and more functionally shape writing implement or side piece of a pair of eye glasses is not a threat is already on a slippery slope toward institutionalized mistreatment and control of women's movement about said society.

When they start collecting pens, eye-glasses, and making men pull off their underwear and laying it on a conveyer belt for all to see, I might consider changing my opinion.

[DRoseDARs]

116. Again women's correctional facilities ban underwire bras because the wire can be taken out & used.

You're a little late in criticizing the idea when it's been in use in many places. And again, I've already stated multiple times the officers were way out of line, but you and others still insist on ignoring that bit as if I hadn't.

[havocmom]

119. BIG difference between women at an airport and women in prison

Or, don't you see that?

Men in airports can have things men in prisons can't. Like, oh say, the clothes they want to wear as opposed to what prisoners have to wear!

Really, you think because a prison bans an article of clothing that women in public should be expected to take that clothing off and run it through the very public conveyor?

JESUS H CHRISTO! And you think my fear of burqas around the corner is off the wall. :rofl:

[alstephenson]

138. Women's correctional facilities are not a court room.....

Hopefully I don't need to explain the difference. Duh yourself.

[havocmom]

139. Women in prison DO NOT EQUAL women in public and what about NECKTIES?

The don't let REAL neckties in prison for same reason, but they don't make men in airports undress.

[Thor_MN]

166. Your right, a big pen is - not something to be triffled with.

I believe I could tell the difference between an underwire and a gun with my metal detector, why shouldn't a guard whose occupation is to use a metal detector be able to do the same.

[Le Taz Hot]

92. That's not hyperbole,

its humiliating and the same thing happened to me. I was going to visit a relative in jail and my underwire set off the metal detector. Luckily, there was a ladies room nearby and I was able to remove my bra in there, BUT, full-figured ladies like myself wear a bra for a reason. When we go without a bra EVERYBODY knows it (I was wearing a thin t-shirt at the time). And yes, my bra got set on a conveyor belt so EVERYONE could see my undergarments. That's not hyperbole, hon, that humiliating.

[DRoseDARs]

117. And again, I've already said the officers were out of line. In your case they had enough sense to..

...show you to a bathroom. Again, the underwire can be removed and used for purposes other than breast support, that's why the jail ordered to to remove your underwire bra.

[Heywood J]

104. Never saw the Godfather, did you?

Eyeglasses right into the throat.

[DRoseDARs]

118. No, and that has nothing to do with anything. nt

[havocmom]

121. If bras are dangerous, it has EVERYTHING to do with it. Proves sexual bias

Pens and eyeglasses are MUCH easier to wield as a weapon in a hurry.

Lets see. Unhook bra, wiggle one strap down THROUGH my sleeve, then, over my hand, which nearly takes my head off by the pressure on the other strap... then repeat process on other side, but without fear of decapitation this time... reach up under my blouse to pull bra out into daylight, then cut or chew the casing for the underwire so I can extract it ( I have done this, it takes time, the casing is TIGHT and the wire, being curved, does not come squirting out like voltage out of a taser) then... I have a weapon.

Nah, I'll just take off my glasses and ram the side piece in a throat, ear or nose.

Much faster.

If pens and glasses are allowed but bras are treated to very close and public scrutiny, it is blatant sexism and probably an attempt to convince women to just stay home.

By the way, do a search on my posts. You will not find anything overly feminist or man-hating. havocmom is a HUMANIST from way back

[arikara]

146. LOL... Thanks for explaining how to cause "havoc" with underwire...

for the life of me I couldn't figure out how I was going to shiv someone with mine next time I go to court. I usually just use my keys.

The terra terra brainwashing has been a little too successful with some of these male-type young 'uns. Maybe they better lay off the TV and read some books instead.

[havocmom]

149. What can I say, Used to date a guy who taught combat to women

Can't help but pick stuff up along life's path.... :hi:

I have a big ol key ring to use as a weapon.... and a .38 which doesn't go to airports.

[havocmom]

120. In the ear works well too

Hey, ok I have some weird interests for study ;)

[barb162]

27. She wasn't wrong to wear it if she needs to wear it.

With some women that's all that works if they are well-endoweed.

[DRoseDARs]

31. So you approve of Sikhs entering courtrooms with knives? They need to because of their faith.

Or are you willing to concede that sometimes one has to accept minor inconveniences in order to NOT needlessly run afoul of court/jail/prison security protocols?

Also, underwire bra alternatives do exist, even for plus-size bosoms.

[AmyDeLune]

34. Yes, but finding them is the hard part.

I am a modest bra size but even so, finding a comfortable (non-sports) bra without underwire in my size is virtually impossible.

[DRoseDARs]

36. Googling "underwire alternative" may give you a place to start...

...and for those more "well-endowed" bosomed women among you, add "plus size" to that search. Searching online can often bear better fruit than searching your local stores. You might not find links that you like to stores, you might find links to discussion forums (like DU for instance) that cater to women's issues and you may find people there who have similar troubles and have viable solutions. Don't be afraid to simply ask; I would think a women's forum would be a HELL of a lot more friendly, understanding and helpful than an equivalent men's forum. ;)

[barb162]

96. No it doesn't.

All it shows are bras that don't support as well as underwire.

[DRoseDARs]

105. 5 seconds on Google: Playtex, sizes 34-38B; 34-44 C; 36-44 D, DD; 38-44 DDD; no wires...

http://playtexbras.com/expectantMoments/detail.asp?productId=38

[havocmom]

127. Because something is AVAILABLE does not mean it works for all

And some of us are way off you silly scale.

havocmom & wayward daughter don't jog for a reason.

[alstephenson]

144. WHY ARE YOU EVEN RESPONDING TO THIS NONSENSE?

You don't have to justify what type of bra you wear - this guy is getting off on it!

[havocmom]

148. It's fun pointing out just how close we are to burqas in the US

And I have a daughter to defend from idiots

[havocmom]

128. THEY DON'T WORK THE SAME AS THE UNDERWIRE

Ask Rudy :rofl:

[barb162]

168. Yeah, I saw that. What makes you think those work for the well-endowed?

Some ads say they work, so you believe it?

[alstephenson]

142. I hope you enjoyed your googling (or ogling)...

Do you actually think you're being helpful? I think you're just being a smart ass.

[barb162]

95. think sports bras for well-endowed women is not an alternative

Underwire works. I agree with you.

[DRoseDARs]

106. See #105 nt

[Warren Stupidity]

72. We aren't talking about knives.

We are talking about a rather standard sort of underwear that many women wear. It isn't a knife. It isn't a weapon. It is a bra.

You've got yourself in a hole and are digging deeper. Good luck with that.

[DRoseDARs]

107. If an underwire bra isn't a potential weapon, how come prisons a jails prohibit them? nt

[havocmom]

126. Prisons prohibit a lot of things

Women NOT in prison should be able to wear their underwear. If we haven't committed a crime, we sure as hell should not have the same restrictions as those who have.

:banghead:

Neckties not allowed in prisons. Guards' uniforms REQUIRE snap on ties because ties make great weapons. I see men in ties, real ties, all over any airport I visit.

Your argument is hogwash and your willingness to slap restrictions on LAW ABIDING women that you don't extend the logic to apply to men and their dangerous attire is more than a little revealing.

[Warren Stupidity]

129. We aren't talking about a prison.

We are discussing the appropriateness of a free citizen of this republic being subjected to humiliation and abuse from armed agents of the state for wearing a common underwire bra while entering a government building open to the public, to conduct business in that building. You have to keep changing the facts at issue as you have no valid argument.

[northzax]

134. you can't hide a weapon?

of course you can (and crazy people, of which there is no evidence she is one) will try all sorts of stuff.

[Warren Stupidity]

154. Of course you can hide a weapon. A bra is not a weapon.

The assertion was made that underwire bras are banned in courthouses, the assertion is false. For the usual reasons the topic was then diverted to 'what about sikhs and their knives?', for which the appropriate answer is: we are not talking about knives. We are discussing the appropriateness of this incident, which had to do with the dereadfully dangerous underwire bra.

If the metal detector goes off, the person can be wanded, the usual procedure, to make sure that no weapon like objects are hidden. Surely this has happened to you or you have seen it happen to somebody else at the airport. Demanding that the offending bra be removed is ridiculous and typical of the sort of standard practice pointless humiliations we are subjected to on a daily basis. Equally typical are the folks here on DU who can find nothing wrong with the long slow slide into outright fascism. Is it a police state yet?

[barb162]

94. Get off the Sikhs bit. What are the alternatives to underwire bras?

Lots of Scotch Tape?
Knives and underwire bras...ohmygod.

[DRoseDARs]

108. See #105 nt

[havocmom]

123. Sorry, you are male and probably do not have the experience that for some of us

underwire bras have no alternative.

A Sikh's religious knives are not required BY THEIR BODIES.

[alstephenson]

140. It's no one's business what kind of bra I want to wear....especially yours.

sometimes one has to accept "minor inconveniences"??? WTF?

[Spangle]

33. Unless it's publicly anounced that such things can't be worn

Then he is 100% in the wrong. When I say publicly announced, I'm talking like they did about the Airport. Constant talk, so everyone gets it. So it's talked about amoungst friends. So when one of them says "I'm got to'>. they remind her NOT to wear an underwire bra!

If it isn't on a SIGN, then he was in the wrong!

Anything can be used as a tool. So your excuse don't fly.

It's been going on how many years now? And this is the first I've heard that underwire bras can't be worn.

The news on this isn't out there. The gaurd was an idiot, he was disrespectful and she should be allowed to sue him. If there wasn't a space avalible to 'handle' such private situations, then the Court should also be liable. Because a person standing in line to go to the court house, most likely can not turn back and be late for a meeting wtih a judge.. who might hold theirs or someone they loves.. life in their hands. It's situational blackmail. She can't just say "I'm not going to go." She HAS to go.

[DRoseDARs]

35. A simple Google search gave me a few hits on places where underwire bras are prohibited...

Obviously, this unfortunate woman found another one. But your point about publicly airing a list of prohibited items is a little odd. How would that have helped this woman? If neither she nor her friends spend their free time hanging out in the court lobby, how would they have "constant talk" about the rules on "What NOT To Wear" (pardon the pun; couldn't resist)? I don't know about you, but out of all the times I've been to airports over the years, I still couldn't recite verse and chapter of what they pump out over the intercom. Something about loading and unloading, and don't leave your shit lying around or we'll blow it up? Further, courts and jails et al generally have information on what is and is not allowed available to the public, you just have to use a little common sense and ask to make sure you're not going to have any problems. Another poster mentioned he (she?) had something on his (her?) keychain that was not ok to bring. Little things like that ruin your day, made worse by the fact that you can avoid it altogether by just asking.

Although her ignorance of the rules is not a defense and as such she did break the rules of that particular court, I think we can all agree that the bigger issue here is the total unprofessionalism displayed by the security officers. She was publicly humiliated for no good reason (Oh for Pete's sake, just escort her to the bathroom and stop your snickering behind her back WITHIN earshot, assholes!) and she ought to be able to sue as you stated.

[againes654]

103. DUDE

you really can't understand this issue since I am assuming that you don't wear a bra. I wear an under wire bra, and I will not search google to find alternatives so that some idiot on a discussion forum can insist that he is safer if I am not wearing an underwire bra.

This is stupid, and if you or anyone else thinks it is a matter of security then you have been duped by the bush administration.

[DRoseDARs]

109. See #105, lazy by your own admission for not searching, & an ass for saying I've been duped. nt

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DRoseDARs]

115. Thanks for proving my point. nt

[havocmom]

143. Who knew there were bra police? Who knew women has a special dress code in America?

I have NEVER had a problem with an underwire bra at an airport.

NEVER

Never knew such silliness existed.

Never know there were tit police.

Never knew I had to invest in a special foundation garment wardrobe for travel

And still wondering WHY THE HELL NECKTIES, BIC PENS and EYEGLASSES are allowed... oh, that's right, MEN also use those and any pompous zealot would risk a pop in the nose to make a man remove his clothing or such.

[havocmom]

141. LOL and speaking of safety, in case of a sudden drop in elevation

ANYONE near me is safer if I am wearing an underwire bra :rofl:

[liberalla]

40. That is not common knowledge.

"Er, duh? You're not supposed to wear underwire bras in a court, jail, or prison."

One more reason to avoid prison! I've never heard that before, and while it's understandable for jail and prison, court is not comparable.

[DRoseDARs]

42. "Er, duh?" was a poor choice of words on my part, but court most certainly IS comparable...

There's a reason they have metal detectors and police officers there and it isn't to build atmosphere like some ritzy nightclub. Defendants do occasionally get violent inside a court room and visitors have been caught before trying to smuggle illicit items in.

[Dolly Llama]

43. Bra Purchasing

Women find it very difficult to find bras without underwires. They are very uncomfortable. I burned mine years ago. The present Homeland Security is the joke.
Dolly

[DRoseDARs]

110. See #105 nt

[Warren Stupidity]

48. Really? Got a link to that regulation?

I can't find the regulation that prohibits underwire bras in courtrooms. Could you please post a link?

[DRoseDARs]

53. Here's an idea: How bout one of you call the courthouse and ask them?

Here's one link I found after a simple search on Google about underwire bras being prohibited, though this case being a jail:
http://archive.salon.com/people/feature/2000/03/20/dresscode/print.html

As I've tried to make clear, courts are just as concerned about security as any jail. You have to contact a given court to find out its policy. The first time I'd ever heard of underwire bras being a no-go item in a courthouse was back in the early 90's; I wasn't even in high school yet, so this isn't exactly the world's best kept secret that sometimes innocuous items find their way onto no-go lists. HypnoToad made the point that "no metal means no metal" with the implication being that most types of non-medical sources of metal are going to be suspect.

[Warren Stupidity]

57. Here's an idea: don't make assertions you can't back up

while claiming that the woman was an idiot because everyone know that you can't wear an underwire bra to a courthouse. You can't find a link that backs up your assertion because there isn't one. You've been caught making shit up and as usual here, instead of 'oops, I guess I was wrong', it's try a tangental attack to avoid the obvious.

[Feron]

68. I've been to two different courthouses..

and my underwire bra never set off the detector. And I've never heard of underwire bras being prohibited.

If you had read the article, you would've discovered that:

-----------------------

Ordinarily, bras don't set off the metal detectors, he said.
-----------------
At the Kootenai County Courthouse, Peter Barnes, the head of security, said he's not aware of an underwire bra ever setting off metal detectors there.

If that were to occur, Barnes said, security guards likely would use a handheld wand to sweep over the woman's chest.

"We never run into a problem where we thought anything like that was a weapon or looked like a weapon," he said.
-------------------------

Jail is obviously understandable because prisoners are creative when it comes to fashioning weapons. Visiting a courthouse is an entirely different matter altogether.

Obviously this woman was treated by the security guards in an unprofessional manner to say the least.

It's sad to see people on a progressive board be so reflexively apologetic for authoritarians.

[DRoseDARs]

111. 2 courts do not a consensus make, and as I said elsewhere I heard about underwires being no-go...

...back in the early 90's when I was still in middle school. :shrug:

"It's sad to see people on a progressive board be so reflexively apologetic for authoritarians."

And as I already said, ass, the officers were way out of line with their treatment of her. It's sad to see people on a progressive board be so reflectively illiterate when they want to feel smug and superior over someone they don't agree with.

[Mojorabbit]

122. I knew you were young

from your posts. Those of us who grew up in the sixties and seventies didn't have metal detectors in schools, etc. You didn't have to pee in a cup to get or keep a job.I say that they have been teaching kids for the past few decades that certain things are ok that would have never been tolerated in the day. It is a slow creep of acceptance of authorities violating ones rights.

[havocmom]

150. I've been in 7 and bet they aren't the ones you went to - no problem for me either

Did see 4 gang members get waved by after setting off the alarms then pointing to their shoes and saying "steel toes". Security just nodded and waved them through.

[Quantess]

130. Every time I've entered a courthouse,

I have been wearing one of these prohibited (according to you) garments. However, it has never been an issue at the security gate. How do you explain that?

[tanyev]

60. Bullshit.

I worked in a courthouse for many years and had to go through metal detectors every day to go inside. My underwire bras never set them off, and I never heard of it happening to anyone else all the years I worked there.

[DRoseDARs]

113. Bullshit to your bullshit. I found instances of people reporting their underwires setting off...

...the detectors after a few seconds on Google. Jesus Lazy-As-Fuck Christ people, it isn't that hard to use a search engine. And someone else already tried to pull the "I've been to 1 or 2 courts and therefore they represent ALL courts" nonsense.

[tanyev]

167. I am not saying that they could never set off a metal detector.

I have certainly heard of it happening in airports and am always careful to wear a different kind of bra on the rare occasions that I fly.

My "bullshit" is directed more toward your assertion that you are not supposed to wear underwire bras in a court, jail, or prison because the wire can be removed and used either to pick cuffs, locks, or fashioned into a weapon. I'll grant you that they do not allow female inmates to have underwire bras. But there are many other functions of government that are handled in courthouses such as civil courts, county clerk's offices, district clerk's offices, etc. The general public goes in and out of courthouses all the time without ever even seeing a prisoner. This incident was out of line and it should have been handled differently.

[Randomthought]

66. Bull!

I have passed through a lot of court house security lately with the divorce and attendant BS and never once has my underwire bra set off security.
These asshats have set the machine to a too sensitive level so they can harrass women.

[pitohui]

97. yeah i've seen at the airport and it means the machine is set too sensitive

there really isn't that much metal in an underwire bra, they CAN set off the device, and i have seen it but it really means you've set the device wrong

[alstephenson]

137. Huh???

[antigone382]

164. Yes...it can be used that way, but so can other objects that aren't banned.

An underwire bra is no less of a threat than a pair of glasses, a tie, a pen, etc. Each present some risk of being used inappropriately, but their necessity to their wearers is widely considered to outweigh the relatively small risk that they'll be used to such purposes. Frankly, I'm a bit on the busty side, and an underwire bra provides support which I consider necessary...it keeps "the girls" in place and prevents back pain. Besides that, I'm trying to imagine just how I would use my underwires to some deleterious effect sitting in a courtroom. I'd pretty much have to stick my hands under my shirt and fool around under there for a good long while before I could pull the things out, even if they had been prepared beforehand just for such a purpose. Most guards are gonna notice a girl sticking her hands up her shirt and apparently playing with her boobs, lol.

I appreciate your acknowledging that the guards handled this situation inappropriately. I went to court recently wearing an underwire bra and I didn't have a problem. There was a female security guard on duty, which should always be the case, and she was able to quickly and respectfully determine that I wasn't a threat and wave me through. It *is* pretty mysoginist, or at least completely disrespectful of the concerns of women, to declare pretty basic female undergarments less necessary than other items of equal potential risk, *and* fail to ensure that there is always a woman on duty should a problem arise.

[Xenotime]

22. This is a police state

[havocmom]

23. Oh pu-leez... let some gentleman with a penile implant try to get into that building

and let us watch the fun

[Megahurtz]

125. LOL! n/t

[barb162]

25. It sounds like they need to reset that machine. Many women wear underwires.

And I never heard of one who had to take off their bras to pass through the machines.

[pansypoo53219]

28. i didn't think when i had jury duty.

my keychain has 2 fork ends. the big one could do damage. OOPS.

[TexasLawyer]

29. Fembots!!!

You can't be too careful!

[Canuckistanian]

61. Yeah, "machine-gun jubblies"

The ultimate concealed weapon.

[LibDemAlways]

32. I have metal in my ankle from surgery - 18 small

screws. If they set the metal detector off, would "Security" insist I remove them, too?

Actually, one time at the airport in Seattle, the metal in my ankle did trigger the detector and I was pulled aside. I explained the situation and displayed my six inch scar, inviting the TSA moron to wand it. Instead, I was treated to a bra feel-up. I don't know what the hell happened to the USA I grew up in, but it sure as hell has disappeared.

[HuffleClaw]

41. wonder what they'd to to a guy with a 'prince albert' ? n/t

[Kip Humphrey]

44. HEADLINE: Weapon of Mass Enhancement Seized

[DRoseDARs]

45. I was waiting for that one! n/t

[JPZenger]

63. Don't they have hand held wands?

In my local courthouse, when the metal detector goes off, they use hand held wands to localize the metal. Therefore, they would at least know that she didn't have any metal other than under her breasts.

[Deja Q]

46. Wasn't there a bathroom somewhere?

Gotta side with the guards in the end, 'no metal' means 'no metal'. They have to inspect anything metal.

[DRoseDARs]

47. *Hands HypnoToad his flame-retardant suit*

"No metal means no metal" Now you've done it...

Yeah, I was saying earlier that it's odd no one thought to escort her to a bathroom. Christ, do the officers hold up their jackets for each other whenever one of them needs to take a shit in a corner? :shrug:

[Warren Stupidity]

49. Bathroom most likely past the metal detector. nt.

[DRoseDARs]

50. Ergo my earlier suggestion that a female officer escort her. I just don't get why that was so hard.

Were they just bored and looking for someone to screw with?

[Warren Stupidity]

91. You don't understand 'security perimeter'.

The female guard (if there were one) cannot bring the terrorist bra wielder through the security perimeter in order to remove the deadly brabomb as that would violate the perimeter itself. The whole courthouse would have to be emptied at that point and swept for nukular nipples and other WMD.

"Were they just bored and looking for someone to screw with?"

Well yes obviously that was what was going on, and that is typical of what happens, day to day, living in a police state, even a mild fascist-lite police state like ours. As we deteriorate further, the next phase of the corruption of power will be the routine demand for bribes from our protectors in order to keep them from over-protecting us.

[CrispyQ]

131. "terrorist bra wielder"

OMG! Hope I never encounter one of those.

:rofl:

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

77. sooo I can't wear any braces

and what about the handicap with pins and "wire" on various parts of their body...that cant be taken off.

[RamboLiberal]

81. The story explained the bathrooms and private rooms

were on the other side of the metal detectors. Not unusual when you go in to a court house. And I think you're siding with the guards is stupid! Lot of women wear underwire bras and I don't expect we need to think of that before going to a court house.

[DrDan]

52. you know. . . . I have tried this myself with little success . . .

Maybe it's uniform - need to give that a try.

[RebelOne]

62. That does not make sense. I went to court in Atlanta in April

wearing an underwire bra (that's all I ever wear) and it did not set off the metal detector.

[Lost4words]

64. Different metal detectors MAYBE???

Maybe you have less wire?

[happyslug]

145. I once went through a Prison Metal Detector with a Judge.

We both had on military style belt-buckles. My did NOT set the metal detector off, for it was Actual GI, i.e. Solid Brass. The Judge's (SSA Administrative Law Judge) did, for his was a Civilian brass covered Steel version. Some machine are set very tightly, other are loose. Does the operator want to detect ANYTHING of metal or just something big enough to be a knife or gun?

[Zandor]

65. Metal is metal - they were right

Why didn't she go to her car or a bathroom?

[againes654]

70. Her bra...

are you kidding me. That is humiliating, and the way you were fighting yesterday to make sure that no one said the word whore to a woman. You are full of it.

[Zandor]

74. You condoned calling women 'whores' and blacks 'uppity'

I objected. Those comments are gratuitous and harmful.

In this case, the removal of metal objects is necessary for security.

So what's your solution? Any woman claiming to wear one that sets off the detector simply passes?

[againes654]

78. I never condoned it, I just didn't condemn it

and it your world, that makes them the same. Well my thinking goes much deeper than that. So you are suggesting that if a woman wears an underwire bra that she should take it off at ever metal detector that she passes through. You are suggesting that she get out of line, remove her bra, get back in line with no bra on, pass through the metal detector, go to another bathroom, put her bra back on, and continue her trip. That is ridiculous, and you know it.

[Zandor]

79. So you won't condone it or condemn it

What a strong stand. :sarcasm:


What is your alternative? Any woman claiming to wear such a bra simply be allowed to pass?

I'd like a better solution, but compromising security isn't it.

[againes654]

80. So by removing ones bra, that helps security?

You logic is skewed. You really just like starting argumentative statements.

[Zandor]

82. Nope

Allowing people to pass while still setting off the detector is a problem.

Should someone be allowed to pass if they claim it's the bra?

And if not, what is your solution? Or do you have one?

[againes654]

83. My solution

My solution is for women to be allowed to keep their bra's on. I don't think it is really that big of a security risk.

What is your solution? Have every woman remove their bra?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1981880

[Zandor]

84. You're missing the point

and deliberately so.

The issue is knowing that the bra is all that's setting off the detector. But you knew that.

[againes654]

85. No you are missing the point

but then you aren't a woman, so how would you know.

[hunter]

165. If we gave all the terrorists plastic guns & knives...

We wouldn't have to put up with this security bullshit anymore.

[noamnety]

112. What if she didn't have a car?

Should she get on a public bus and take off her underwear?

There were no bathrooms available to her, apparently.

[jberryhill]

67. Violence in Courtrooms has nothing to do with terror, or Bush

Particularly in Family Court.

The metal detector only tells them "there is something metal here". The choices are to find out what is the concealed metal object, or simply allow people to take concealed metal objects into court buildings.

What would you suggest be done when the metal detector indicates someone going in with a concealed metal object?

[Carni]

73. She should have taken her bra AND shirt off

Then walked into the court like F you and the horse you rode in on and dared anyone to do anything about it...

Honestly what the hell has happened to this country?

This totally absurd and asinine!

[AnneD]

88. That was my though too....

hell, I'm menopausal and not in a mood to be fucked with. I would go through topless and embarass the shit out of those idiot and dare them to arrest me:nuke:

[Carni]

100. LOL! LOL! LOL!

Thank you!

I just laughed out loud at the menopausal not to be fucked with issue (LOL'ing all over again)

I can definitely relate! :)

[AnneD]

135. And put me before a jury of my peers......

I dare them. The jury would let me off and award me an outrageous sum in damages. Why the annoyance alone is worth 12.3 million.:grr:

[fudge stripe cookays]

158. .

:rofl:

With The Brain as your avatar, that seems even funnier to me.

Right on, sistah! :D

[NorthernSpy]

90. I'd just unbutton my shirt on the spot and tell him to go right ahead...

... and look around til he's satisfied that I'm not about to shank anyone with my underwear.


And I'd make sure to stare at him fixedly the whole time just to make him as uncomfortable as possible.

[Carni]

98. I SOOOOO Agree with your plan!

I would have most DEFINITELY wanted to turn that situation around to make the cop (guard or whatever) look foolish!

GMTA! (Either that or we're both obstinate assholes lol!)

[happyslug]

147. I knew a couple of women who would have done that

And stood there as their bra went through the X-Ray machine AND then file a Complaint with the Judge about it. Yes, taking it off and putting it on in full public View (and at least one was a Senior Citizen).

[davsand]

76. I wear under wire bras to court.

Every freaking time I have to go to court I am in an under wire bra because that is what I wear.

I get called in to testify sometimes as part of my job for a local government agency. I hate it because it means I have to leave my cell phone someplace. They don't allow THOSE in our local courthouse, along with any sort of blade--including the one inch blade on my mini Swiss Army Knife key chain.

We had a fire bombing attack in our courthouse a few years ago. Nobody got seriously hurt, but there was some damage to property and a lot of lawyers with dirty drawers by the time it was all over. While I appreciate the need for security, I also think it is a very real pain in the ass to get subpoenaed and have to run a gauntlet just to go do my job. Even with my government ID (complete with photo) I still have to deal with the security screenings.

I honestly think those guards had a real case of the ass when they started messing with that lady. I have no idea what kind of equipment they have, but hand held wands are pretty common, and they get used regularly. They had NO reason to make her remove her bra. None.

While I have NO idea what her demeanor was like, I will tell you that had I been in that situation, I'd have been out of there and on the phone chewing on SOMEBODY in a matter of minutes. You can also damn well bet that there would be at least a couple of Judges and lawyers hearing from me right after I got done tearing a bloody strip off the supervisor for those guards...

I am already in a BAD mood when I have to go to court, and dealing with a handful of slack jawed idiots along the way would just send me over the top.



Laura

[truebrit71]

93. Knockers Of Mass Destruction....

...it's official...this country has lost it's mother-lovin' mind...

It's a bad day when the people are afraid of their government...it should ALWAYS be the other way around...

[MilesColtrane]

136. Google Superbra Paxton Quigley n/t

[Chovexani]

151. Dude, bras are dangerous

Kiefer totally took his underwire bra off and shiv'd some dude with it on 24. TRU FAX.

(On second thought, I think I read that in a fanfic.)

[superconnected]

152. WTF.

Fuck them and their imbecile security guards.

[Snarkturian Clone]

153. This is fucking crazy ...

"I" word worthy. Not impeachment, the other "I" word.

[Hekate]

159. "That's a girl" said the guard as her bra went through the scanning machine.That's harassment.

That line made me see red. These *holes are getting their jollies off humiliating women in public and calling it "security". I'd like to "security" something soft and private of THEIRS in public.

Hekate

[RamboLiberal]

160. After bra flap, federal courthouse adds changing room

There's an update on the underwire bra flap at the federal courthouse in Coeur d'Alene.

Earlier this week, a woman complained she was forced to remove her bra before going through the metal detector.

But yesterday, the U.S. Marshal's Service announced it was adding a changing room - so people with garments that include metal bits could take them off in private.

Marshal Patrick McDonald in Boise says, "We don't want anyone to be embarrassed when they come to the courthouse."

http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=7175773

Plato had wondered why a female security officer couldn't have used a hand-held detector over her chest.

McDonald said the U.S. Marshals Service, which oversees contracted security officers, has hired only one female officer in the last five and half years.

"We've only had two apply for the job," McDonald said. "One of them withdrew her name because she got a better job someplace else."

Also, McDonald said court security will provide women with black plastic sacks to place items, such as underwire-style bras and other articles of clothing, before they're scanned by detectors.

http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/articles/2007/10/05/news/news02.txt

Geez is pay so bad you can't find females who will work for you? IMHO this is still stupid. Why can't a male officer wave a handheld wand?

[Quantess]

161. Holy ****.

Remind me to never have a reason to be in an Idaho court house.

[olddad56]

163. I will certainly want to stay abreast of this story.

She could pull that wire out of her bra and stick it right in the judges eye.