Forensic expert: Impossible for Handcuffed Woman to Strangle Self in Airport

[Hissyspit]

Source: CBS

Forensic expert: Impossible for handcuffed woman to strangle self in airport
David Edwards
Published: Tuesday October 2, 2007

Dubious of the initial police report, CBS asks a forensic expert to explain if a woman who died in an airport holding cell could have strangled herself while handcuffed.

Forty-five year old Carol Anne Gotbaum, a mother of three young children, may have accidentally strangled herself while trying to get out of her handcuffs, Phoenix Police Department spokesman Sgt. Andy Hill said Saturday, CBS reports. According to investigators, it appeared as though Ms. Gotbaum had possibly tried to manipulate the handcuffs from behind her to the front, got tangled up in the process, and they ended up around her neck area,” Hill said.

However, "Attorney Michael Manning, who was hired by Gotbaum's family to monitor the police investigation, said it doesn't seem possible she could have killed herself." "She was handcuffed behind her back and shackled to a table," Manning said. "It doesn't make sense that she could have physically managed to strangle herself."

According to a guest on CBS News's The Early Show, forensic pathologist Daniel J. Spitz, "It's really not conceivable that she would be able to use the handcuffs that are holding her hands behind her back to cause a compressive force to her neck," but the chain running from the cuffs to the bench might conceivably have done it. "The autopsy is going to need to be done to confirm there was a compressive force to neck and that the cause of death is asphyxiation. It is also going to need to exclude that drugs or alcohol played a role or she had some unknown natural disease which played a role."

Read more: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Forensic_expert_Impossible_for_woman_in_1002.html

[TwilightZone]

1. Slate would seem to disagree

http://www.slate.com/id/2175054/

Curiously, the CBS item headline and the article don't really match. The expert doesn't say that it's impossible. He says that the handcuffs probably wouldn't have done it, but that it's conceivable that the chain could have.

Highly unlikely, of course, but not "impossible".

[Tempest]

2. Slate doesn't account for her being shackled to the table

I'd like to see them follow up and address that.

[hedgehog]

3. If she hadn't died, I think we would never have heard of this.

My guess? They shackled her to the table and walked away hoping she would calm herself down. Instead, she managed somehow to wrap herself in the chain trying to escape and accidentally choked herself.

Alternatively, what they read as a woman having a tantrum was actually a woman having a stroke/heart attack/ diabetic crisis/ withdrawal symptoms/? and she died unattended because of a medical emergency.

If she had calmed down, I suspect they would have chided her and sent her on her way. I'm not certain she would have actually been ticketed or arrested.

[KurtNYC]

6. A holding cell without cameras or windows? 7 officers who didn't see anything?

according to airport employees she punched, kicked and screamed at the officers -- I think that changes the math on this one.

[Randomthought]

8. My guess

She was killed by a choke hold and the cops tried to cover it by handcuffing the body and shackling it to a table.
Until we see a video no one will know for sure.

[LanternWaste]

11. Forensics would be able to differentiate...

Forensics would be able to differentiate bruising patterns from a choke hold and bruising patterns from her cuffs.

[smoogatz]

30. If she was cuffed behind the back, it would be impossible

for her to choke herself with her cuffs. Get somebody to tie your hands behind your back and you'll see what I mean.

[backscatter712]

22. That, or a related scenario.

She was subdued by a choke hold, cuffed and shackled in the holding cell and left, then later, tissues in her throat which were injured by the choke swelled up and caused her to suffocate.

But yeah, the choke hold scenario is the most plausible explanation IMHO.

[smoogatz]

29. Yep.

That would be my guess, too. Some TSA thug wanted to shut her up and ended up killing her. The other possibility is that she had a heart attack or stroke--but the idea that she strangled herself while cuffed behind the back is ridiculous.

[Mind_your_head]

45. Bingo! n/t

[jberryhill]

27. stroke/heart attack

Good point. Strangulation by any means may indeed be an assumption.

If it was some sort of panic attack, increased adrenalin could have caused heart failure.

But, still, signs of extreme physical stress should have been apparent to the police.

[KayLaw]

5. Right.

Plus the five to ten minute time frame. BS, plain and simple. I think she was just very distraught about missing her flight and the police and security killed her. Unfortunately for them, she's from a family powerful enough to fight back.

[cobalt1999]

13. wow, that's quite a conclusion to jump to.

The woman obviously had issues either mental or physical, so who knows what she was capable of or what could have killed her.

[Cronopio]

15. Mental issues or no, she was only capable of what a 105 lb., 5'7" woman is physically capable of.

And that doesn't include strangling herself with handcuff chains behind her back, whether she wanted to or not.

Whatever the coroner's report says, the basic fact in this case is still that the people who incarcerated her were responsible for her while she was under incarceration. So it's involuntary manslughter due to negligence for those involved at least.

[jberryhill]

24. Panic attack? Adrenalin?

Until the autopsy, it's all speculation.

But I agree that it seems unlikely there is not going to be a finding of failure to exercise due care under the circumstances, at a minimum.

Sounds like a whopping settlement in the works.

[KayLaw]

28. It really upsets me.

Police brutality does exist. I'm from Florida and I'm still sick about Martin Lee Anderson - just a kid. It cannot be tolerated.

[endarkenment]

4. Filed under: No shit. nt.

[liberalhistorian]

33. No kidding! But cue the DU Authoritarian Brigade

in 5,4,3,2,1...........................:eyes: :puke:

[Trillo]

7. Where's the video?

That should put to rest how the woman strangled herself.

You mean that the general public is under surveillance and presumably video all through airports, (cities too) but not in security's holding cell? Which executive security department made that convenient rule?

[LisaL]

9. I was always told that someone can drown in a glass of water.

Maybe it's one of those things.

[jberryhill]

25. How do you keep an attorney from drowning in three inches of water?

Take your foot off of the attorney's head.

[studentforpeace]

37. Drown in a glass of water unlikely and circumstantial

Hello,

Lizzy, it is possible but it references the inhalation of water into the lungs and the eventual decrease of oxygen exchange.

In Spanish the expression means to be overwhelmed by situation which is not as large as one thinks.

Peace,
erica

[Hydra]

10. Dur!

Facts not supportive of conclusion = conclusion inaccurate.

I can't believe people are still making excuses for the murderers.

[Judi Lynn]

18. You can count on it as long as the victim isn't a Republican. n/t

[RamboLiberal]

12. More Info from NY Daily News - Shackle chain strangled her

apparently. Snippets from NY Daily News.

"You don't then shackle someone to a bench and you certainly don't leave them alone," Manning said. The lawyer said preliminary information the family gathered indicated Carol Anne Gotbaum may have been left alone in the airport holding area for up to 30 minutes.

A family friend who was supposed to meet her flight in Phoenix failed to show, sources said. Gotbaum was found dead less than an hour later, apparently strangled by the 16-inch chain cops used to loop her handcuffs to the bench, police said.

Phoenix Police Department spokesman Sgt. Andy Hill said Gotbaum was left unsupervised only between five and 10 minutes. He described the shackles as a 16-inch long chain, which when attached to handcuffs, is about 24 inches long.

"We still do not know how Ms. Gotbaum was able to manipulate the handcuffs to the position she was in. But when she was found, her handcuffs were in front and the shackle was still attached to her handcuffs. The chain was not wrapped around her neck. It was pulled against the front of her neck area," Hill said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/02/2007-10-02_gotbaum_kin_was_running_to_rehab_when_co.html

[TX-RAT]

14. It was pulled against the front of her neck area," Hill said.

Just keeps getting stranger.

[Cronopio]

16. She didn't have the strength to choke herself from the front.

She would have to be a combination of Houdini and Hulk Hogan to even attempt it. And it would take Hulk Hogan more than five to ten minutes.

Nothing about the implied explanation hangs together. It's murder or involuntary manslaughter on the part of members of airport security or the Phoenix Police.

And if they get away with it, it sets a precedent, which is very bad news for all air travellers.

[NeoConsSuck]

35. I can't wait to see..

the courtroom re-enactment of this scenario. Even Houdini couldn't pull off what they are claiming.

[ProudDad]

43. Maybe they'll hire Arlen Spector to recreate the incident...

He's quite creative...

[eridani]

41. I'm short-waisted and limber enough even in old age to get handcuffs alone from back to front.

However, it would require enough slack in the chain for me to get my hands under my rear end in order to follow butt with legs. Doesn't sound as if that is anywhere near the case here.

[Honeycombe8]

17. Your post title is misleading. The expert says it IS possible. ?????

Did you read what the expert (not hte attorney) said? He said it is possible...will need to wait until the autopsy and other things are done.

The article I read earlier said the woman was yelling that she should be let on the plane because she's a sick mother. I'm wondering if her illness had something to do with her death...and if the authorities who arrested her inquired about her illness.

[mitchum]

19. Choke hold (n/t)

[RamboLiberal]

20. From Phoenix paper info why she was upset

Carol Gotbaum arrived in Phoenix from New York on a US Airways flight just before 12:30 p.m. Her connecting flight to Tucson, on US Airways Express, was scheduled to leave at 2:58 p.m. But she went to lunch between flights and lost her seat because she arrived at the gate too late, Manning said.

Mesa Air Group, which operates US Airways Express under contract with US Airways, would not comment on any aspect of the incident because of the ongoing investigation, spokesman Paul Skellon said.

Airlines generally have boarding-cutoff times so they can complete the paperwork necessary to clear the flight for an on-time departure. A US Airways spokesman said its general rule, which applies to Express flights, is to cut off boarding 15 minutes before a flight. A passenger's reservation could be canceled if he or she is not on the plane or in line to board by the cutoff time, spokesman Phil Gee said.

One handcuff was chained to a bench in the holding room. The entire chain with handcuffs is about 2 feet long, Hill said.

Manning questions the role that restraints may have played in the death. Anytime someone is cuffed from behind, it puts the respiratory system in an unusual position and they could be susceptible to other problems, he said

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1002airportdeath1002.html#comments

Wonder if she assumed because of her connecting flight that her seat was secure? Did she already have a boarding pass for that flight? And I hope she wasn't drinking at lunch?

[LiberalHeart]

23. I'm having trouble visualizing the restraints.

[studentforpeace]

36. sad story

I will certainly be interested to see how this turns out. Poor thing, on her way to rehab.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/10/02/national/main3317678.shtml Here's a CBS link.

No wonder I have an irrational fear of airport detention rooms. Scary...
Peace,
erica

[myrna minx]

47. Welcome to DU, studentforpeace.

:hi:

[yardwork]

21. The autopsy will tell us how she died.

The autopsy will be able to distinguish between strangling on a chain and being choked by human hands. Until the autopsy is complete, all speculation is simply....speculation.

[DuaneBidoux]

26. Let's put an exclamation point on this "duh."

[dailykoff]

31. Let's wait until the police have had time to destroy the evidence

before passing judgement.

[Arkansas Granny]

32. Just found this. She was apparently flying to Tuscon to rehab.

Woman who died at airport headed to rehab, family says

12:07 AM CDT on Tuesday, October 2, 2007
From Wire Reports


Carol Anne Gotbaum PHOENIX – A woman who died after being detained at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport was on her way to an alcohol rehabilitation program, her family's lawyer says.

Michael Manning said he would monitor the investigation into the death of Carol Anne Gotbaum. Ms. Gotbaum, 45, became irate and was screaming Friday when she was late for a flight and a gate crew wouldn't let her on the plane.

Officers handcuffed her behind her back and took her to a holding room, authorities said. Later, they found her unconscious with her hands "pressed against her neck area."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/100207dntexairport.30f064d.html

Also, I saw a statement yesterday (but can't find it right now) that said they didn't have cameras in the holding area for privacy reasons. I'll keep looking for it.

[jberryhill]

34. Oh the irony

So, in the Minneapolis Airport, they have police watching your feet in toilet stalls.

But, in the Phoenix Airport, they don't watch you in custody, for "privacy reasons".

Next time I need to take a dump at an airport, I guess I know where to go for privacy.

[Trillo]

39. Privacy reasons in this case probably refer to the need for security

or police to have privacy when they're with their detainees. Seems like Executive Privilege. Secrets. Shussssh.

[GETPLANING]

38. A careful autopsy will find broken ribs punctured her lung.

When several cops "take down" a suspect, they pile on and put their knees on the person's neck and chest until they are suitably cuffed and restrained. Many times, this causes injuries like broken nose, sprained or broken joints, and cracked ribs. A man in Texas died in custody due to "natural causes" according to the first examination, but a second autopsy paid for by the family of the man proved that the police had broken his ribs during his arrest, which punctured his lungs and killed him. Still no charges against them.

[file83]

40. My bets are on that. I'm pretty sure it is IMPOSSIBLE to "strangle" yourself to

the death. As soon as you pass out, your airway opens up and your diaphragm contracts, drawing air into the lungs.

You might bruise your neck and or head while you fall, but you aren't going to die.

[jberryhill]

42. The "Airport Contortion Effect"

It's the same thing that causes wide stances in the men's room.

[ProudDad]

44. The bottom line is greed and profit!

Airports are fucking stressful places anymore since Osama bin Laden and bush won the phony "war on terra (tm)" and we're subjected to near strip searches and uncertainty when trying to fly.

It's inevitable that some people will stress out and react.

Cops are the WRONG group to deal with this sort of situation -- they are all about authoritarian bullshit and CONTROL... It would take a person trained in psychology to deal with stuff like this.

What's to stop major airports like Phoenix from having a trained professional...in a word -- there's no PROFIT in it...

If we had a society that valued human beings over "order", this would NOT have happened...

It's tough enough flying. It's tough enough being addicted. It's tough enough going into rehab. Then you add Nazis at the cabin door and available to "handle" the woman who's freaking out -- you've got the recipe for disaster...


On Edit: If there's any justice, it will soon be the Pheonix Gotbaum Airport and her 3 kids will be getting the profits...

[RamboLiberal]

46. Anderson Cooper interviewed via phone 2 witnesses

Who said the police response was excessive. That while she was upset and demonstrative she was coherent and didn't appear intoxicated. And police official from DC says while they followed procedure it may have been excessive.