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allisonthegreat Donating Member (586 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 05:49 PM
Original message
Supreme Court Weighs In On Lethal Injection
Source: San Francisco Gate

The U.S. Supreme Court took up a constitutional challenge to lethal injections today, agreeing to decide how far states must go to minimize the risk of excruciating pain during an execution.

The decision to accept an appeal from two Death Row inmates in Kentucky effectively prolongs moratoriums on executions in California and nine other states where judges have halted lethal injections during legal challenges. Legal commentators said most of the 26 other states that use lethal injection as the exclusive or primary means of execution will likely delay carrying out death sentences until after the high court's ruling, due by next June.
More...


Read more: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/25/BAUVSDQOT.DTL
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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. An Injunction on an Injection?
:shrug: :hi:
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good. I'm glad to hear this.
I cannot believe that people have been fighting efforts to make sure this is done correctly.

And to those who would flame me... Dont bother. You wont change my mind. I dont care what they have done, if we are going to continue this practice, it needs to be done as humanely as possible.



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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. FFS. Anaesthesia and a boltgun just above the brainstem.
Now open the "envelope" and it's either the transplant ward or the incinerator. Prisoner's choice. Last decision he ever makes.


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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. You really don't want to start down that slope.
> Now open the "envelope" and it's either the transplant
> ward or the incinerator.

You really don't want to start down that slope, the
possibilities for corruption are far too great. And
isn't that *EXACTLY* what we like to pillory the
Chinese for doing?

Perhaps you were joking.

Tesha
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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Actually I was being at least somewhat serious.
There are ways in which it is possible to ensure that instances of corruption are few and far between. Certainly to ensure that the true and exact final will of the executed party is carried out correctly.

First of all I do believe that the DP should be reserved for persons showing a pattern of incorrigible AND seriously life threatening behaviour. And the criteria for it's enactment should be beyond unreasonable doubt. One exception to the rule requiring a pattern of behaviour:- If a person (as a cop/prosecutor/other person of authority) is found guilty of manufacturing/creating evidence that leads to a DP conviction (even if ultimately justified) then that person (of authority) automatically shares the exact same fate as the person they "put away". The same criterion of beyond unreasonable doubt should still however apply.

Finally the DP should not be considered the ultimate sanction. Only the guilty party and any gods that might exist can apply that particular penalty. What it is is society's final option for those who would maliciously (or recklessly AND incorrigibly) damage its underlying fabric.


Chasing down the topic tree, I also agree in a variant of the three strikes rule. However, at least two of the three strikes should be for serious crimes which resulted in, or would likely result in, serious injury to an innocent (and legally non-complicit) party. eg. Selling drugs to adults would not qualify. Selling to kids would.


IIRC something like 2% of the US population is currently incarcerated. And other studies have shown that roughly 80% of crime can be attributed to some 20% of those who will be incarcerated (or found guilty) at some time in their lives. So ideally the criminal justice system should work towards incarcerating the actual 1/2 a percent or so who won't reform and spanking the remainder into being good citizens. (And I mean exactly that. No quotes. No nuances on "good".)


Debates about what should and shouldn't be a crime is for another place.

The path of "justice" trod by a miscreant should be something along the lines of:

  • Fines assessed as a percentage of "income" NOT as an absolute amount.
  • Significant Civic Service. I would think at least ten times what is currently assessed in "community service" judgments.
  • Incarceration for those who refuse to contribute/repay or who are too dangerous to allow to roam free.

    • Fair comfort should be made available to those who are their to protect society.
    • "Bare minimum services only", for those who are there through their own "choice". If they wish anything further they must "earn" it and that only after first meeting basic room and board expenses. The point being made is that if you won't repay then you will have the "value" of that restitution taken from you. However, the additional "price of imprisonment" should never be assessed against the prisoner.

  • Life imprisonment for cases where the potential for doubt exits, "one off unforgivables" and the generally irredeemable.
  • And only finally the Death Penalty for those who are demonstrably a clear and entirely unacceptable risk to any society of which they are a part.


As best can be managed, a path should always remain open to "work" towards a mutually beneficial compromise. However, an absolute requirement is that the miscreant party expend considerable personal effort to so better their condition. And contrawise, any individual who insists upon bucking the system violently enough can ultimately "commit suicide" by forcing society's hand.


And while I'm rambling, how is this for a reasonable compromise to the increasingly ubiquitous security camera.

  • Any camera monitored in real time by a living operator is as if that operator was on the actual scene for evidentiary purposes.
  • Stored recordings of "public" areas may only be accessed after the fact if certain specific conditions are met. A known "crime" of a defined "severity" being the primary one. No fishing expeditions allowed and solid cryptographic security with an equally solid audit mechanism to enforce this requirement.


The aim should be towards making every reasonable effort to protect privacy in the normal course of affairs, but not to another's undeserved detriment. Properly implemented such a system could even cover every single square inch of a prison and yet ensure a very high degree of privacy across the entire surveiled area unless and until the actual commission of a forbidden act makes itself evident. It could even conceivably be extended right up to the threshold of private residences without appreciable intrusion on deserved privacy.

Enough levels of properly implemented security could create a perfect nanny state which only ever spanked naughty little boys and girls and never ever looked over the shoulder of the good. An unacceptable extreme of oversight, but something which is technologically feasible.
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BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-25-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sheesh, just use a really big dose of morphine. Done.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Of course. That's the correct alternative.
Of course. If we insist on killing people to prove that
killing people is worng, then that's the correct alternative.

I really think the "potential of pain" with the current method
gets some peoples' rocks off. "Yeah baby! Make 'em suffer!"
But we don't euthanize our pets using that method, do we?

Tesha
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Enoch1981 Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. Well, at least there's some good news these days
Anything that slows down the process is a good thing. I always thought that the death penalty in a form of a vicarious murder for those Americans too chicken to do it themselves.
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. WELCOME!!!
LOVELY to hear that from someone.

I'm not a Christian, but I always wondered why Jesus saying "Vengeance is mine, I shall repay saith the LORD," gets such small press in the churches.
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