American troops create 'The Exorcist Experience' in the ancient city of Ha

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

(Hatra)

Hatra For a country recently purged of its chief tormentor, it is perhaps a grimly appropriate theme for its first new tourist attraction.

US troops in Iraq have launched what has been dubbed 'The Exorcist Experience', after discovering that the ancient ruins they were guarding provided the location for the 1973 horror classic's opening sequence.

They now plan to help locals put the 2,000-year-old city of Hatra back on the international tourist map by marketing it as a future holiday destination to fans of the cult movie.

Using a modest $5,000 grant, the soldiers have recruited local guides and guards to the city and built a car park and police station nearby. They have also revamped the nearby Saddam-built Hatra hotel, which they hope to privatise.

more: http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/print.asp?ArticleID=107254

[truthisfreedom]

1. ooh, perfect. selling a Catholicism-based movie in a Muslim country...

thinking caps strapped firmly in place!

[akitamata]

13. YES!

More proof that American soldiers are the spawn of the Devil. Commercialism in the name of an ancient demon, gotta love' em.
Ready, Aim, Verdict!

[daleo]

2. This seems like the worst kind of cultural arrogance

I mean, the U.S. army turning ancient ruins into a movie based tourist attraction. Think how outrageous the following would seem if treated the same way (note that the article implies a sort of fun-house atmosphere, floodlights, etc.):

The Parthenon - for "Xena, the Warrior Princess" fans
Stonehenge - for "Lord of the Rings" fans, perhaps
The Pyramids - for "Raiders of the Lost Ark" aficionados
The Coliseum - for those who really liked "Gladiator"
The Washington Memorial - for fans of "The Patriot"

And so on.

Just dreaming craziness like this up might be an amusing pub game, though.

[PennyLane]

4. Pub Games

Yeah, it just might work!

[mobuto]

14. The American Soldiers are trying to help

the local economy get started. This doesn't sound like the best of ideas, by any means (I'd tend to think the RPG threat would scare away even the most die-hard Exorcist fan), but the motives are sound. They're trying to bring foreigners, with their cash, into Iraq. That's very different than what Perle and Cheney and their friends are interested in, which is taking money out of Iraq.

[missile_bender]

20. themselves.

They are helping themselves to Iraq, just like Bush.

[mobuto]

21. Please elaborate

How are the American soldiers in question helping themselves to Iraq?

[missile_bender]

22. They are exploiting the country for their own financial gain

They do not have a right to invade a country then set up shop using Iraq's resources, whether mineral or historic. They have no right to be there at all. Give Iraq back to the Iraqis.

[zizzer]

23. I don't see this

What I see is troops trying to help in (I must admit) a clumsy way but I'm not willing to demonize these young men and women for TRYING to help. I see no where that these soldiers are making personal profit but trying to help Iraqis make profit.

I'm not a big fan of tourism but this is no worse than any of the examples I gave below and is much better than allowing further destruction of such sites.

So, yeah, it's not great, it needs some oversite from the Iraqis to ensure it maintains it's historic not just it's entertainment value.

And as far as "right to be there", I say the reality is they are there and at least a few of them are thinking outside of their HumVies in a way to leave lasting commerce for the nation. Not saying it's great just that it's not criminal or even maliciouse.

Zizzer

[Teaser]

24. Wrong, Chuckles

I'm sorry. Tell me again how these guys are going to make money from this? They are, after all, in the employ of the US gov, which does not look kindly on moonlighting soldiers.

[missile_bender]

26. Are we reading the same article?

"They have also revamped the nearby Saddam-built Hatra hotel, which they hope to privatise." Who do you think is getting the money they are charging for parking, admission, concessions, etc. They got a $5,000 grant? Notice how they got it, not Iraqis.

[zizzer]

27. "Are we reading the same article?"

I don't know, are we? I read an article linked fron the start of this thrtead that seems to state that 1) these US soldiers were their to protect it from looting 2.) fell in love with the place and read a book and did some research and learned a thing or two 3) have actively been recruiting locals to help work and run the endevour.

Look, I hate The Shrub, I hate this stupid war, but I see no need to attack soldiers doing what I for one think they should be doing, helping to increase comnerce, to improve infrastructure, to encourage active participation in rebuilding thae nation our leaders decided to destroy.

I can hear it now "but bagdad has no electricy" or "what about the children in the hosptals" and what not. There is only so much any one human can do and these enterprising young men and women have figured out a way to go about helping at least a few people. Sure, it's to trap them in a tourism economy but it's better than nothing.

I just don't see a point in demonizing this one effort that at least seems positive when their are so many other thangs to rail against. Why must every silver lining have a cloud?

[missile_bender]

32. These guys are running a business

Why is that so hard to understand? For profit. Not for warm, fuzziness.
Iraqis don't need American invaders coming in and turning their country into tourist attractions. If they want to help the iraqis, they need to leave.

And it is the responsibility of every American to demonize EVERYTHING the illegal US invaders do in Iraq until they leave. They don't belong there. Every hour they stay they damage Iraq. Every second they stay they do harm that will take years to undo. End the occupation. Go home. I can't say it strongly enough.

[northzax]

34. sorry, but you are wrong on this one.

as muc has the invasion and occupation of Iraq was a miserable idea, we are stuck with it. If the US leaves now, Iraqis will be in a worse situation than they were before, and I'm unwilling to accept that.

look, if my neighbour has a ramshackle house, and I burn it down, I was wrong, right? does that mean I can simply ignore his new plight? or do I owe him a new house? I don't know wbout you, but my mother always taught me to do my best to fix that which I've broken, to attempt in good faith to repair any damage I inflict on someone else.

Do you really believe that we can destroy the infrastructure and government of a nation and leave with nothing to replace it? we need to rebuild industry, we need to rebuild infrastructure, if only to give the average Iraqi a fighting chance of a normal existence. this is out pennance for our hubris, we broke it, we owe the Iraqis a decent shot at fixing it.

And for all the failures on the national level, it is through multiple local initiatives like this one that we may, just may, succeed.

[daleo]

36. Your neighbor would probably want you to just leave

I suspect that if you burned down your neighbor's dwelling, then offered to stick around and help rebuild it (renting out a few rooms at your own profit), he would prefer that you just left him alone. Especially if you burned it down on purpose, whether or not you thought your motives were good.

[northzax]

37. he might.

but is it in the best interests of his children to do so? I mean, they're the ones without a house.

The fact remains that at this time, there is no iraqi government to ask us to leave. So who's voice do we listen to?

[NickB79]

41. You underestimate the Iraqis here

The Iraqi people are some of the most well-educated and hardworking people in the Middle East. If we applied your burnt-down house analogy, it would be like burning down the house of a architect/carpenter who is fully capable of rebuilding his own house without your help. And, if someone burnt down my house, I would be very wary of trusting him ever again. We continue to underestimate the Iraqi people and treat them like children, when in reality they have the will and the strength to rebuild their own country. The only thing they need from us is economic help to rebuild. Take the money we're spending on our military intervention and Halliburton and give it to the Iraqi corporations, and they could rebuild Iraq years faster and at a much lower price.

[northzax]

43. what iraqi corporations?

what educated populace? you're dealing with 1960's Iraq, the middle class has been destroyed, the educated have, for the most part, left or been killed.

and how, by the way, is helping local communities prepare for Western Tourism, something that thanks to blockades, they have little experience with, not 'economic' help? How is using US money to rebuild a hotel and tourist infrastructure not economic help, just what you wanted?

how many places have we given hands-off economic help to that have been systematically looted by corrupt leaders? oh, right, IRAQ in the 80's. Who is going to adminster this economic help, so that it reaches the people in question, and doesn't get diverted to vaults in Geneva? There are many things wrong with this occupation, but this particular incident is something that is making the best of a bad situation. or do you trust Ahmed Chalabi to invest wisely (I'll remind you he's under indictment in Jordan for bank fraud)

[missile_bender]

45. We left Vietnam, didn't we?

They sure didn't ask us to return. Turn Iraq over to the UN. Let them and the Iraqis together rebuild the house we burned down.

[Bullshark]

54. Iraq for the Iraqis

Iraq sadly never belonged to the Iraqis. It belonged to the Baathists and their families and friends who exploited all the resources of Iraq for their own gain and left the regular Iraqis little, too little.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

42. Maybe they can set up a Disney-like "Magic Mountain" ride through the

ruins with a couple of Saddam animatrons dropping down with a sabre?

Everybody wants to be like America! We so classy in out arrogance!

[mobuto]

47. Which is more important to you?

Avoiding Disnification and "cultural imperialism" at all costs or putting food on tables, providing jobs, and building an economy?

It seems you're taking moral stands on issues that are easy to take when you're living a life of relative wealth, security and comfort back in these old United States, that are much harder to take when you're a destitute Iraqi resident of some 2000 year old city nobody's heard of.

Although this article says nothing of setting up a theme park, would you really have a problem with that? Do you want to be the one to tell the Iraqis who would benefit that, no, they have to die because they cannot exploit their own history for their benefit?

I think this idea is unsound and its a likely failure. And in a perfect world we could seal off the dig to all but trained archaeologists, putting a premium on preserving the past. But we don't have that luxury, and more importantly, the Iraqis sure as shit don't. But if they find anything at all can get them out of destitution, then you have no grounds to criticize what they need to do to survive. Yes, even if it offends your sensibilities.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

48. In situations like this, only a very few would find "food put upon their

table."

The majority of people affected by such a thing will be working for slave wages wearing a Hammurabi costume greeting affluent Europeans and Americans who have made fortunes exploiting ME and Asian workers.

I've been homeless. I've lived on the streets. I'm just ending a year and one half of unemployment. Unless you can tell me that you have had to sit and listen to religious diatribes to get a plate of Spam and potatoes, don't tell me I'm "living a life of relative wealth, security and comfort back in these old United States."

You might be, but there are a hell of a lot of people that aren't.

Exploitation is a heinous thing and should not be supported by this country. Unfortunately, greed knows no bounds in today's political clime, too many of this country's people have been raised with the idea that the acquisition of wealth is next to Godliness and that, IMHO, stinks.

Ragged Dick was fiction.

[Sandpiper]

52. How bout letting the people of Hatra

Decide for themselves what they want.

It seems you're taking moral stands on issues that are easy to take when you're living a life of relative wealth, security and comfort back in these old United States, that are much harder to take when you're a destitute Iraqi resident of some 2000 year old city nobody's heard of.

And in typical American fashion, it seems that you've already decided what's best for the people of Hatra. You talk as though this was their idea and they were all down on their knees beggingn "pretty pretty please let us make our city into tourist attraction" rather than having the decision made for them by US troops.

You know, once upon a time, Rome was invading distant lands, killing their citizens and imposing their own way of life on them. But then again, they built swell acqueducts and bath houses that weren't there before right? So that made it ok, right? I'm sure the people they invaded thought so.

But we don't have that luxury, and more importantly, the Iraqis sure as shit don't. But if they find anything at all can get them out of destitution, then you have no grounds to criticize what they need to do to survive. Yes, even if it offends your sensibilities.

Please spare me the "white man's burden" platitudes about what we must do for the Iraqis, and how they can't wait another day for the "improvements" that we plan to make. How about letting them decide for themselves what they need and want rather than telling them.

[AngryAmish]

35. "The Patriot"

maybe Gillette Stadium???

[eileen_d]

3. Ugh... I feel some green-pea-soup backing up right about now.

It seems hard to even focus on one of the many facets of what's completely effing twisted in this story...

[NJCher]

5. "a real moneypot"--hey, that's what's important

"Once it's up and running again as a visitors' spot, this place will be a real moneypot," said Capt Nik Guran of the 101st Airborne Division.

This is just unbelievable. Cultural arrogance indeed. The world would be laughing, were it not so pitiful.

Wonder if their "tourist package" includes treatment for exposure to depleted uranium?


Cher

[jpgray]

6. Hmm.. ancient cradle of civilization ruins... remember that cool movie!?

That girl vomited up and shit, and pissed on the floor!

Shouldn't there be, ahem, some more prevalent reasons these ruins should be a landmark?

[Sandpiper]

7. Was there ever a time or a place

For which Americans could not find an excuse for crass commercialization? Thank goodness we don't have any cultural treasures like the pyramids or the parthenon in our hands, or we'd be painting Nike swooshes and AOL logos on them.

The saddest part is how oblivious most Americans are to the fact that most of the world considers us a bunch of uncultured, ignorant rubes.

[mobuto]

16. Commercialism, yes, but why so crass?

Now don't get me wrong, this is a dumb idea that won't work.

But it seems to me, the Iraqi people have concerns a little more profound than worrying about commercialization. If commercialization is what I need to feed, cloth and house my family, then so be it. When Iraq is on its own two feet and there are enough resources for everybody, then they can have the luxury of preserving Art and History purely for their own sake. But at this point, that's just irresponsible decadence, and it smacks of a cultural disconnect more profound than that which exists between our soldiers and the Iraqi people. There are certain principles that university-educated members of the Western middle classes can stand on that are simply unavailable to those less advantaged. So if the Iraqis feel that commercializing their archaeological heritage is what they need to survive, then while we can disagree of the eficacy of such action, I don't think we have any grounds on which to criticize them morally.

[Sandpiper]

28. Why so crass?

Well, maybe it wouldn't be if it was Iraqis who wanted to turn their archeaological treasures into tourist traps, but it's not. Americans want to turn the cultural heritage of this country into some sort tacky tourist attraction to draw other Americans with their khaki shorts and Kodak Funsaver cameras.

And where would most of the money generated from this tourist trap go to? Iraqis or Americans? I think we both know the answer to that one. The only jobs that this would bring to the locals would be low wage jobs as bus drivers, tour guides and bell hops.

Only an American would think of turning 2000 year old archaelogical treasure into some sort of half assed disney land.

[mobuto]

49. There are no Iraqis

There is no government in Iraq, except for the US Army and the Coalition Provisional Authority. So Iraqis cannot turn a government-owned hotel into a tourist venue, because the Iraqi government is at-present operated by the United States. Only Americans can do that.

I think you should be applauding these troops for trying to come up with ideas to create and sustain an economy that will employ Iraqis and bring wealth into the country, even if this particular idea doesn't quite cut it.

And where would most of the money generated from this tourist trap go to? Iraqis or Americans? I think we both know the answer to that one. The only jobs that this would bring to the locals would be low wage jobs as bus drivers, tour guides and bell hops.


On what basis are you saying that? Not only do I think you're wrong there (certainly nothing in any of the stories I've read has suggested that Americans are going to run the operation, but rather the contrary), but even if this were somehow magically true, so what? Right now the Iraqis have no choices. There are no jobs available. Not even as bus drivers. Not even as bell hops. So if, for $5000, which is what we've spent so far, only ten stinking bell hop jobs were created then what's your beef?

Only an American would think of turning 2000 year old archaelogical treasure into some sort of half assed disney land.

Correct. I agree entirely. What's your point? Where do you get the moral authority to deny a job, housing, food to an Iraqi family - relegate them to complete destitution on the grounds that their own treasures are being made tacky? Hubris thy name is Sandpiper.

[Sandpiper]

50. Speaking of cultural imperialists

...What's your point? Where do you get the moral authority to deny a job, housing, food to an Iraqi family - relegate them to complete destitution on the grounds that their own treasures are being made tacky?...

And where do you get off deciding that Iraq now belongs to the US, and we are now free to set up shop there?

Again, I ask the question that you don't seem to want to answer. Whose idea is it to turn Hatra into a destination for western tourists? It's citizens, or the occupying army???

I'm sorry I don't share your missionary zeal for commercialism, or your obviously deep held belief in the virtues of capitalism. I guess I forgot to read my Ayn Rand today.

Hubris thy name is Sandpiper.

Right back at ya mobuto. Your whole train of thought seems to be that since we've invaded anyway, we're now justified in leaving our big ugly footprints all over the place as long as it brings in a few bucks. So what if the people never asked for this, Americans know best.

I think you should be applauding these troops for trying to come up with ideas to create and sustain an economy that will employ Iraqis and bring wealth into the country

Pleas spare me the crap about how I ought to be applauding the troops for their nobility. How many innocent people have been killed by our military over there? About 8,000?

[Voltaire99]

8. It gets more surreal by the day.

What will this insane empire do next? Start the Baghdad Paris Hilton fan club?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. This embarassment portrays Americans as a parody of themselves...

Joseph Heller couldn't have written the script for this one.

[The Zanti Regent]

10. Hey, what if Jenna and Babs get posessed by the Devil?

Hmmm, Imagine their heads turning around and saying the same things Linda Blair said in the movie?

Priceless!

[zizzer]

11. Oh, come on, realy

As a DC native I have a special place in my heart for that movie ... and some of it's sets. In fact I spent my 18th birthday with my then girlfriend having a picinic on the "Excorcist Steps" in Georgetown.

Not far from here in the Blue Ridge Mountains is a great huge cavern (several actualy) that have little parking lots (some huge) and a little store for nick nacks and snacks and an entrance to get into the caverns. Not realy my thing but they sure were cool.

When my mother went to visit frinds in Egypt (they were with the State Dept) she went to Geiza and to some of the older temples etc. At each one was some sort of "comfort station", usualy a western style bathroom and somewhere to get a bite to eat and usualy a small parking lot or transportation depot of some sort. Sometimes it was hitching posts for the horse or donkey carts.

My point? Maybe, just maybe this isn't the end of the world. Perhaps making tourism a cash industrie for Iraq will hasten the peace efforts by encouraging trade and travel. Yes, of course there are problems, commercialism, traffic, loss of some cultural identity, trash. On the other hand there are jobs to make facilities, jobs for working in a kitchen, jobs taking tickets to tour the ruins, jobs showing people the ruins.

I know that given half a chance and feeling even remotely safe I would go to Iraq in flash! A chance to tour (what's left) the Bagdad Museum! To see the temples, to explore the ruins, to walk a small bit of the silk road! To stand in the cradle of civilization and watch in awe as it continues to be home to hundreds and thousands of people.

Don't rush to condemn these soldiers, they are trying in a way that THEY know. In a way that THEY understand. They're young, pompous and full of grit but not mean spirited.

Zizzer

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

12. We're talking the difference between a set of steps in Georgetown

vs. 2,000 year old ruins in the cradle of civilization here.

What's next? SEE ROCK CITY painted on the Mosques?

[mobuto]

17. Agreed, but there's another issue

While the area around the Lurray Caverns, or whichever ones you're referring to, is poor by American standards - compared to Iraq its the Upper East Side. And I don't think anybody has the moral standing to criticize what people have to do in order to keep their families alive. I'm a strong proponent of historic preservation and I'm a historian by training if not by trade, but I still value the living over the dead.

[Sandpiper]

30. Like I alluded to before

Is it Iraqis who are suggesting this, or is it American GIs looking to turn a buck off the place that they've invaded? I'd be willing to bet my life that less than half of the money generated would end up in the pockets of Iraqi people. This whole idea smacks of trickle down economics.

But hey, since American style commercialization is obviously what these people need, maybe we can pay one of the locals to dress up as Mickey Mouse and hand lollypops to the kiddies. Or maybe sell corporate naming rights for the ruins: Welcome to the City of Hatra! Brought to you by Motorola.

I know that trickle down capitalism and commercialization of everything are American articles of faith, but maybe, just maybe, there are people in the world who don't want this for themselves.

This whole idea reeks of cultural imperialism. What saddens me is that there are people on this board who would defend it.

[zizzer]

55. A few minor points

The soldiers are renovating a hotel that ALL READY EXISTED.

The site was already a tourist site.

Iraqis are being brought in to run the thing.

Am I saying this is a good idea? I honestly don't know for sure, on the other hand I'm not ready to demonize every last thing that our military does over there.

If it comes out that somehow these soldier make personal gain from this then I will have seriouse problems with it.

My real point here is that there are SOME good points coming out of all of this. If nothing else a few soldiers have stopped long enough to read a book about the area where they are, they have come to a plan of action and they are acting on it in a way that seems on the surface to have the local Iraqis involved and profittng.

So is this a good idea? I don't know. Will the soldiers proifit from this? Intelectualy I sure hope so, monitarily I sure hope not. Is this the best thing for the Iraqi's? Again, I have no idea, on the otherhand it's no worse than what has been done to Yellowstone or the Pyramids of Egypt (they're lit up at night with spotlights too)or the rain forsets through eco-tourism.

This is not the end of the world this is an effort to bring some commerce to the area and preserve a piece of cultural and world importance.

I fail to see sky falling because of this one.

[Robb]

15. Again...

...when life starts imitating my Lounge posts (see "MuammarWorld"), we're in deep doo-doo. :eyes:

[bobthedrummer]

18. I wonder what The Witchfinder, Ashcroft thinks about

this lol.

OTOH, there were many problems filming "The Exorcist" along with tales of curses for some of the cast and crew.

[mobuto]

19. If Mr. Ashcroft were posessed

how could we tell?

In the film, Linda Blair starts to speak in tongues when the demon takes hold. But as a devout Pentacostalist, John Ashcroft already speaks in tongues.

And maybe his head doesn't spin, but mine sure does whenever I hear about how the chief law enforcement officer of the United States supports neo-Confederate groups who believe that slavery, as practiced in the antebellum South, was a moral undertaking.



Mr. Ashcroft, The Power of Christ Compels You!

[htuttle]

31. I'm sure he's paging through the Malleus Maleficarum for advice...

Hmm...throw them in the water, or burn them?

Decisions, decisions...

[DrBB]

39. The Witchsmeller Pursuivant!

Witchsmeller: Do you deny that you were seen, on the Feast of St. Jacob the Turgid, speaking to this little cat Bubbles?

Edmund: Well, of course I deny it!

Witchsmeller: Ah, but the chambermaid Mary heard you say, and I quote, "Hello, little Bubbles, would you like some milk?"

Edmund: Well, I might have said *that*!

Witchsmeller: Ah!!!

(The crowd `Ah's)

Witchsmeller: And what did you mean by it?

Edmund: Well, I meant, would the cat like some milk.

Witchsmeller: Milk? What did you mean by `milk'?

Edmund: I meant *milk*! Bloody *milk*!!!

Witchsmeller: BLOODY MILK!!! It was a mixture of milk and blood!

Edmund: No, no, just milk!

Witchsmeller: Ah, blood was to come later!

Edmund: (pleading) There wasn't any blood!

Witchsmeller: SO YOU HAD TO MAKE DO WITH MILK!!!

(the crowd screams and cheers; Percy leans back in his chair, defeated)

[shanti]

25. i was wondering when this would come up

(remembering the first scenes from 'the exorcist')....

[SpiralHawk]

29. This is Black Magic. Make no mistake.

Know it for what it is.

Extreme wicked bad Ju Ju. Negwich - all around.

The Forces and Associations are mobilized.

The Skull & Bones rattle loudly.

Onward the ancient occult jihad/crusade/madness to touch what lies in the deepest recess of the Krypt. Icky-poo.

Beware. Skull & Bonery is afoot.

But this too shall pass. Soon. Sweetly. In a puff of wind and light.

[northzax]

33. I'm sorry to everyone else

but good for them. Yes, it sucks that we need commercialisation to improve tourism, but them's the breaks. Given government regulations on moonlighting, these soldiers can't make a dime off this project (not that there's much to make) so they take some US money and use to to employ local people in a sustainable trade? isn't that the idea? Iraq only has three assets to speak of, oil, history and people. Oil is spoken for, which leaves history and people. I'd much rather have my tax dollars going to local people to build an economy than to haliburton, wouldn't you?

[Sandpiper]

38. Maybe you can do your part as a good capitalist...

And open a McDonalds there. You would be providing jobs to the local citizens along with affordable nutritious food.

[northzax]

44. hmm.

The trouble with being poor is that it takes up all your time. Willem de Kooning

read your Marx.

[missile_bender]

46. I don't for a second believe these soldiers can't make a dime off this

I don't believe any regulations will be brought into play. Soldiers in war ALWAYS make money. From WWI to Vietnam, regulations never got in the way. The story details were sketchy, but it did not say money would not be made by the soldiers. Maybe now that the press is interested they might back off.

And who said Halliburton isn't building the parking lot, providing concessions, etc.?

I'm sorry, but my cynicism when it comes to the invasion and occupation of Iraq knows no bounds.

[Fovea]

40. The test of this business' survival

is the owner's survival. If they win the locals, it might just work... after a few years of peace and stability in the region.

[Minstrel Boy]

51. Flash: American troops create 'The Exorcist Experience' throughout Iraq

Iraqis sense their resources and their nation possessed.

The whole enterprise is Satanic. But there's a buck in it for some.

[Lisa]

53. It's already a World Heritage Site ...

http://whc.unesco.org/news/news170203.htm