NSA Judge: 'I feel like I'm in Alice and Wonderland'

[autorank]

Source: Wired



By Kevin Poulsen August 15, 2007 | 6:33:00 PMCategories: NSA

Ryan Singel and David Kravets are blogging the U.S. 9th Circuit hearing on the NSA's spying, and AT&T's alleged complicity, reporting live from the San Francisco courthouse. Hit 'refresh' in your browser and scroll to the bottom for updates.

Spectators lined up outside the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco starting at noon to guarantee a seat at a much-anticipated legal showdown over the government's secret wiretapping program.
The hearing involves two cases: one aimed at AT&T for allegedly helping the government with a widespread datamining program allegedly involving domestic and international phone calls and internet use; the other a direct challenge to the government's admitted warrantless wiretapping of overseas phone calls.

Jon Eisenberg, (right) an Oakland-based attorney, is arguing on behalf of a now-defunct Islamic charity Al-Haramain and its lawyers, who claim to have been accidentally given a Top Secret log of their own phone conversations, which they say proves the government illegally eavesdropped on them without warrants.

Snip



Judge Harry Pregerson (top, in file photo) suggests the government is asking the courts to "rubber stamp" the government's claim that state secrets are at risk "Who decides whether something is a state secret or not? ... We have to take the word of the members of the executive branch that something is a state secret?"


Read more: http://tinyurl.com/2gqsht

---

So much for the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and "those rights not enumerated."

...we must keep track of the willing enablers of this tear down of our Constitution to make sure
that, after restoration, they are prohibited from any further particpation in the process ... they're
dangerous people.

Thanks Judge Pregerson!

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

1. I just wish it was over already.

[Mythsaje]

2. That's quite a graphic...

He's got Condi wearing blackface, doesn't he?

Wow. That pic gives me the serious creeps.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

3. The guy has some interesting artwork. Here's one from 2004 called The Liberator.

[Mythsaje]

4. I LIKE this guy's work...

Creepy, but...wow.

[mogster]

6. Amazing art

Deserves a thread of it's own, but here's one of Cheney:


On edit: Link to site
http://www.artofmarkbryan.com/index.html

[ChiciB1]

20. WOW! Thanks For This Link... I Checked It Out And It's Super! Will

be forwarding it along. Need to check closer to see if the T-shirts are for sale! Totally Amazing!

Thanks again!

[aquart]

32. Good Lord, George as Howdy Doody!

[wordpix]

14. now I'm a fan of the artist. Thanks.

[sce56]

23. I agree we need a thread to discuss this artwork

[wtmusic]

5. OK I had to join the Electronic Frontier Foundation after I read this

Long overdue.

[kineneb]

36. I renewed my membership at LinuxWorld.

greetings, fellow supporter of real freedom
:hi:

[mogster]

7. K&R

Thanks autorank!

[autorank]

37. Thanks mogster!

Nice to see you, such a forgiving soul you are. We need more like you :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Egnever]

8. great art

I am not so sure that the plaintiff should not have been taped though,the fact that they were given the records is pure ineptness but that they were taped in the first place well I have trouble building outrage over that

[rosesaylavee]

9. Amazing...

Kick for OP and for the incredible art by Mark Bryan.

[Solly Mack]

10. k/r

[rodeodance]

11. Judge Pregerson: "What does utmost deference mean? Bow to it?"

Judge Harry Pregerson (left, in file photo) suggests the government is asking the courts to "rubber stamp" the government's claim that state secrets are at risk "Who decides whether something is a state secret or not? ... We have to take the word of the members of the executive branch that something is a state secret?"

Garre counters that the courts should give "utmost deference" to the Bush administration.

Judge Pregerson: "What does utmost deference mean? Bow to it?"


....

HA HA, good one judge!

[aquart]

34. Age 79, Carter appointee.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Pregerson>

Wikipedia calls him "very liberal."

[tanyev]

12. Say...if Carol Lam had been allowed to dig deeper into the Cunningham/Abramoff mess,

would any appeals on those cases have ended up in the 9th Circuit Court? I can see them wanting to avoid that.

[bjobotts]

26. They already have. States secrets stopped further investigations

A judge ruled that information could not be allowed as it is classified. Saw that months ago somewhere on TPMm.

[Kurovski]

13. K&R. (nt)

[bluerum]

15. now there is a wild eyed librul lefty if ever I saw one. eom

[TomInTib]

16. About that General Strike...

About half of the businesses in our little town are participating.

I am looking for some good banner ideas for the gallery.

Maybe I should start a thread.

[autorank]

27. Wow! That's amazing.

Truly, when you start it, let me know, and, better yet, send an email to the folks running
the central location for the strike:

[e-mail]

They'll be thrilled I'm sure.

Great work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

[TomInTib]

35. I live in a pretty amazing place.

Belvedere/Tiburon, CA. Our ZIP (94920) is the highest per capita income ZIP in the country.

And we are fuckin' serious.

I believe we also have the highest concentration (non-military base) of ex-Special Forces guys in the US.

Of our 8,400 population, I know of at least 50 of us. And each and every one of us is mad as hell.

We hold anti War/Bush Admin protests every Friday.


Tom

[frylock]

17. thankfully, our congress is hard at rest during this critical period

[autorank]

30. Their rest will be interrupted if they speak to their costituents;)

I can't believe they've authorized Bush to act on Iran and given money.

Are they nuts. I'll bet that there are not 10-15 Congressional districts with even a large minority
of citizens in favor of acting on Iran. None of those opposed would ever want Bush trusted.

What's the f'ing deal here? Are these Republicans (100%) plus the dogs nuts?

[Seabiscuit]

18. I feel like I'm in Mordor.

[WidowsSon]

19. I know the fucking feeling.

We started going down the rabbit hole in December 2000.

[autorank]

28. Seven years of stripping our rights - laws passed for the few against the many.

I could list all the regular suspects but let me mention a huge one, for the working poor -

PAYDAY LOANS - at an "effective" interest rate of 300% a year

The bean counters at these companies know that people won't pay back on time and continue rolling
over and over the original loan. Guess what that costs, 300% interest.

This is an outrage. People get paid so little they have to use lending instruments that not
even organized crime would offer.

That's got people pissed off. Watch Edwards grab it. If ht does, damn...

[mvd]

21. I hope the courts do what Congress didn't do

Which is protect our civil liberties. That would be the separation of powers still barely beating.

[RedSock]

22. skulls -- wow!

[mod mom]

24. Here's some more good stuff coming out of Wired:

FBI Office Under Investigation Involved in Secret Spying Controversy
By Ryan Singel August 16, 2007 | 8:08:32 PM






-snip

The morning that the Justice Department told the White House that it had changed its mind about the secret spying and wouldn't renew its legal sign-off, Mueller's notes indicates he met with the FBI's General Counsel Valerie Caproni; John Pistole - then the Executive Assistant Director for Counterterrorism and Counterintelligence; and most intriguingly, Michael Fedarcyk - the first Section Chief of the Communication Exploitation Section, Counterterrorism Division.


As only Wired News has reported, the Communications Exploitation Section is already under criminal investigation by the FBI and the Justice Department's Inspector General Glenn Fine for sending misleading "emergency" letters to the nation's telecoms to get thousands of Americans' phone records. Those fake "exigent letters" were first revealed by the Inspector General's report on the abuse of a key Patriot Act power, known as a National Security Letter.

Fedarcyk looks to be the lowest ranking member at that meeting (Wainstein seems to have been former General Counsel, while Gebhardt was a Deputy Director) -- meaning that his office was likely centrally involved somehow in the secret surveillance -- perhaps only as a receiver of leads from the NSA -- perhaps as a partner in the government's alleged data-mining of U.S. citizens phone and internet usage records.

The Communications Exploitation Section "analyzes terrorist electronic and telephone communications and identifies terrorist associations and networks," according to 2004 testimony from Pistole.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/08/fbi-office-unde.html



http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/08/fbi-office-unde.html

SO IS THIS PART OF THE NSA PROGRAM THAT COMEY, MUELLER AND OTHERS WERE READY TO RESIGN OVER?

[autorank]

29. It's my favorite mom!

Wired is so solid. Thanks for posting these items.

:hi:

[mod mom]

25. Sen Leahy Requests IG to Investigate 5 Public Statements Abu Made:

Yesterday, Sen. Leahy requested that the Justice Department's inspector general investigate five public statements that Gonzales had made -- the same five statements that we chose as #1-5 in our tally. Certainly these statements will play a significant role in impeachment proceedings, should Democrats decide to go that route.

Enjoy:

1) “The disagreement that occurred, and the reason for the visit to the hospital, Senator, was about other intelligence activities. It was not about the terrorist surveillance program that the president announced to the American people.”
-- 7/24/07 testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee

The parsing in this testimony was so awkward, so evidently legalistic, that Gonzales has stood by the testimony, apparently confident that the inherent dishonesty in the distinction did not rise to the level of perjury. He’s since explained that his language “may have created confusion,” but that the “terrorist surveillance program” only referred to a narrow and uncontroversial surveillance activity, and that the dispute which led to his infamous trip to John Ashcroft’s hospital bed was about other activities -- albeit activities that others, like FBI Director Robert Mueller, have consistently viewed as part of a single program. To Mueller apparently, Gonzales' parsing is needlessly misleading.

2) “The consensus in the room from the congressional leadership was that we should continue the activities, at least for now, despite the objections of Mr. Comey. There was also consensus that it would be very, very difficult to obtain legislation without compromising this program, but that we should look for a way ahead. It is for this reason that within a matter of hours Andy Card and I went to the hospital."

"I just wanted to put in context for this committee and the American people why Mr. Card and I went. It's because we had an emergency meeting in the White House Situation Room, where the congressional leadership had told us, "Continue going forward with this very important intelligence activity.”
-- 7/24/07 testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee

There were a couple questionable (and contested) assertions in this one. Remember the situation: Deputy Attorney General James Comey was serving as attorney general, since Ashcroft had fallen ill. After Comey refused to reauthorize the administration's warrantless surveillance program, Gonzales and Andrew Card went to the hospital to try and convince Ashcroft to overrule him. FBI Director Robert Mueller's notes on the hospital showdown have since shown that he found Ashcroft to be "feeble, barely articulate, clearly stressed" after the encounter.

-snip

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003920.php#more

SURE HOPE SOMETHING COMES OUT OF ALL THIS! :hi:

[Vidar]

31. Thankfully, there are still some judges with courage.

[autorank]

38. Maybe we'll get a Judge Sirica.

We need one.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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[fushuugi]

39. k/r

k/r

[defendandprotect]

40. MILLIONS OF CITIZENS INVOLVED IN THE AT&T LAWSUIT -- !!!!!!