Top Democrat: Our Iraq Policy Won't Endanger Israel

[Purveyor]

Source: Haaretz

WASHINGTON - U.S. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md) told Haaretz on Wednesday that the Democrats would seek to avoid a policy on Iraq that "will leave chaos and will endanger Israel."

--
Hoyer was responding to statements by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert some months ago, in which he expressed opposition American withdrawal from Iraq. Olmert warned against a hasty withdrawal that may undermine the balance of power in the Middle East and endanger the moderate regimes in the region.

"Those who are concerned for Israel's security, for the security of the Gulf States and for the stability of the entire Middle East should recognize the need for American success in Iraq and responsible exit," Olmert said in remarks to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in March 2007.

--
More specifically, Hoyer says he'd want to understand the position of the newly appointed Defense Minister Ehud Barak on this matter, and also mentioned General Amos Gilad of the Defense Ministry as someone whose position on this matter he would invite.


Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/891358.html

[Poll_Blind]

1. You can't discuss American Foreign policy about Israel anywhere but I/P, can you?n/t

PB

[Purveyor]

4. The opening sentence in the I/P forum thread reads as follows:

Welcome to the Democratic Underground Israeli/Palestinian Affairs discussion forum. As you know, this is where you may discuss issues surrounding the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians.

This current article from Haaretz makes no mention of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict...

[Poll_Blind]

2. Iraq WITH Saddam or WITHOUT us endangers Israel. Doesn't Israel have an army?

Don't they have access to the highest-tech weaponry in the U.S. arsenal, the so-called "top shelf"?

Flash to Olmert: There will never be such a thing as a responsible exit from Iraq by the Americans because the entry was not responsible. Far from it. Just another excuse to pad Halliburton's coffers.

PB

[Egalitariat]

8. Yes, and they'd annihilate every Muslim country in the ME before football season

if we didn't constantly keep them from doing it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. College football or pro?

:shrug:

[PCIntern]

18. Statements like yours should not go unchallenged.

that is just an outrageous lie. Period.

[qazplm]

26. well part of it is true

Israel is under no real threat from Muslim countries as they have proven time and again that they can take them all on simultaneously and pretty much win in a rout.

And there is no indication that the ME countries-Muslim have gotten any better plus you'd have Egypt and Jordan sitting this next one out so what a war with Syria and Iran and Iraq?

Israel would win that one with half it's army tied behind it's back.

[LSK]

28. hows that West Bank illegal settlement program going?

They out of room there yet?

Maybe they need more land...

[Africa1]

3. How about our own Interest?

How about us worrying more about our own,Americas Interest first and foremost?
All other Nations worry about their own people first. :think:

[LeftishBrit]

42. All governments worry about what they perceive as their own INTERESTS first

Which doesn't necessarily mean the interests and welfare of their people.

American governments do that too. If they support an ally it's because they find it useful to do so.

I wish more was spent on humanitarian and less on military aid - to any country.

[Megahurtz]

51. Great idea. Makes sense!

:shrug:

[IndianaGreen]

5. Toppling Saddam has left chaos and has endangered Israel

Considering the different interests groups that lobbyied and campaigned for this war, they all got the blowback that they richly deserve!

Let's throw some more gasoline on the fire, attack Iran!

[David Zephyr]

63. Did you ever capsulize that entire subject, IG.

Nature abhors a vacuum.

[MissWaverly]

6. I think Iraq is imploding, like it or not, the world with deal

with the consequences, my best guess is that a new strongman will seize power and what will happen then is anyone's guess.
New strongman could be Allawi(????) but I don't think we will have much say on what Iraq will do.

[bvar22]

11. Ayad Allawi is a NeoCon puppet.

He has no support inside Iraq.
Even with ALL the US pressure in the Iraq election, Allawi got virtualy no votes.
If the US leaves Iraq, we will have to take Allawi with us. If we don't, he will be hanging from a lamp post.

[MissWaverly]

40. don't know about that, he's been regrouping ever since

we gave him "heckuvajob" treatment

[0007]

23. I don't think we've even began to see the worse of this mess that junior started.



[MissWaverly]

39. I agree, that is why we have to work together

rocky times ahead, we are going to have to stiff price for absolute loyalty for the last 6 years to the Bushco follies by
this complacent congress.

[leaninglib]

65. We will...if he's "our" strongman.

[bonito]

7. Well, I gave this the 5th

But I'm not taking it myself, it is very much our foreign policy at hand.

[razors edge]

10. Are the donations drying up? nt.

[provis99]

12. AIPAC is such a misnomer

Why can't they call it by a more truthful name, like CFFTA (Christian Fundamentalists For The Apocalypse)? Seriously, I think any Israeli politician who turns up at an AIPAC meeting and actually listens to the rank-and-file membership must feel like he's entered a religious twilight zone dealing with those right wing Christian fundamentalist wackos.

[Amonester]

13. How about the UN (does it even exist anymore?) and diplomacy?

Or maybe their "friends" inside think-tanks make too much money with Iraq as it is (and soon with Iran as it will be)?

THE U.N.??? Wutz that??

[ToeBot]

14. "...moderate regimes...", and just which (or where ) are they? nt

[liberaltrucker]

15. Israel has nukes

Therefore, nothing for it to worry about. It's enemies know this.
True, there will be the occasional Palestinian "uprising"
but Arab "powers that be" will do nothing, knowing they'd
be vaporized if they stir up any serious shit. Not PC, but
all too true.

[Kool Kitty]

31. You're right.

Israel can defend herself.

[coalition_unwilling]

37. That's a rather parochial notion of "defense". Long term

demographic trends do not bode well for Israel as currently constituted. To wit, the birth rate of Israeli Arabs exceeds that of Israeli Jews and, if current trends continue, Israel's population is expected to become majority Arab by mid-century.

Why is this a problem? Because Israeli Arabs do not enjoy the same rights and privileges as Israeli Jews. Imagine an Israel with a majority Arab population (in 25-40 years) and a minority (Jews) that continues to wield power and enjoy special privileges and the notion of "defense" takes on an entirely different meaning. Then Israel will truly represent apartheid South Africa where a minority white population held power over a majority black population. What defense will then be offered or possible?

[AndyTiedye]

16. Translation: Olmert Demands That the US Stay In Iraq Forever

[Broadslidin]

24. Well, until the last drops of recoverable crude oil in the area are forever Destroyed.

As the crude oil addicted Imperialist Us implodes,
will our client state, Israel
begin to fully understand the end game,
entitled: "Tough Love"...?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

17. we ain't here to create disorder, we're here to preserve disorder!

Ah, the words, mangled, marginalized, maimed, marred, by da Mare Daley during the 68 Chicago Convention, have nver been more appropriate

[robcon]

19. I think the reaction to this is telling.

If a politician went to Ottawa, and said the new fisheries legislation (or whatever) would not hurt Canada, there would be no reaction.

The Israel-bashers on DU are a little sensitive, don't you think?

[Comadreja]

20. Arab lives compared to fish?

You can do better than that, surely.

[The Stranger]

22. Good point. I would say THAT post was rather telling.

[robcon]

25. When did I campare anyone's lives to fish?

Projecting a little, Comadreja?

All I did was compare the reassurances to an ally on whatever issue affects the country.

[Megahurtz]

34. Yeah and AMERICAN lives compared to fish?

There's another one for ya. :sarcasm:

EDIT: Actually directed at post #19

[LSK]

29. Well if Iceland was holding our troops hostage in Iraq

Then the outrage would be against Iceland, wouldn't it???

[Zhade]

33. Wow. You compare an illegal invasion of a country that never threatened us to fishing?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[catch_of-the_day]

21. it must be horrible

to have all that nuclear power and be afraid to get on a bus or eat at a restaurant in Israel. Nuclear power is no defense against anything.

Unfortunately, Israel is the reason for all the instability in the ME. The sooner the US stops funding the insanity, the sooner peace will be achieved.

[uppityperson]

32. bet thist was the post that got you gone.

[Megahurtz]

35. He/She Is Right.

Why the fuck would that post get anyone gone it's the truth!!!

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[High Plains]

55. Thank you for your eloquent contribution.

All so typical.

[LeftishBrit]

41. Whaaaaaaaaatttttt???

'Israel is responsible for all the instability in the Middle East'. You mean for ALL of it? Like all the times when Iraq and Iran have fought each other? Like the current internecine fighting in Iraq?

Seems to me that there is plenty of instability in the Middle East to go round; and of course we (USA and UK) are contributing a fair bit to it.

Let's not set up specific countries as bogeynations and blame them for everything. That's what the Right like to do.

[NoodleyAppendage]

27. Awww. Poor little Israel. So powerless to do anything for itself... Wah.

Hmmmm...what country in that region has hundreds of nukes? What country won a war against Egypt?

I guess it's simply a matter of wanting others to pay for their protection and wars. Thanks Israel. What an ally.

J

[Megahurtz]

38. That's All Israel Wants

is our fucking money, and to keep us in a loop of endless War and Death.

They don't care if our own Country and it's own Citizens are devastated financially,
dying because of their own selfish cause, and our Country down the toilet. :hurts:

Fuck Israel. They have the ways and means to fight their own battles.

And CUT OFF their funding!!!

The Citizens of the U.S. need that money. They don't. :grr:

[LeftishBrit]

43. Must be interesting to be so full of hate for a specific country.

You obviously feel about Israel the way the Right felt about Russia in the past, and more recently about various other countries: this year it's Iran. Whichever country it is, it's to blame for absolutely everything that goes wrong, and has no interest in life except to ruin *your* country.

Some British right-wingers are a bit like that about Europe.

Right-wingers need bogeynations to hate. But we liberals don't.

Israel didn't cause the war in Iraq. Bush did.

[Megahurtz]

44. Hell, it's not affecting YOU

you live all the way over in the U.K., so why would you even care what I'm talking about. :shrug:

Must be the easy life to sit in your little cubby-hole and make your
safe little biased assumptiom from your armchair.:sarcasm: Wow, you have the nerve!

You try living over here for several years struggling and scraping the bottom with no help, no money, dwindling jobs and no benefits for the taxes you pay, no health care and watch it all happen to more and more people that live here by the day, and watch BILLIONS of tax dollars go to Israel.
Those BILLIONS of tax dollars need to stay here. Sorry if this affends you, but the U.S. needs to
take care of it's own Country and all who are in it with that money first AND formost!

What part of that last sentence do you not understand???:wtf:

Try living in my or someone else's shoes as a U.S. Citizen for awhile and see if after that
you still have the outlandish gall to accuse me of being a "Right-Winger"
when you yourself are supporting the policies that the Right-Wingers prevail!

:rant:

[Psephos]

52. A classic study in psychological projection

The self-righteousness is the clincher.

You and your kind who want to pin all the world's woes on Jews or Iranians or Christians or Leftists or Blue Meanies or whatever the flavor of the day is, are the real and lasting trouble of this world. Hate leads to division leads to subversion leads to xenophobia leads to war.

[Megahurtz]

53. I have no problem with Iranians.

You need to go back and re-read my post carefully.:think:

I have a problem with all of our U.S. Citizen needed tax money going to Israel.
I would likewise have a problem if all of our money was going to any another Timbuck-whats-it-fucking-called-tu too, if that's where it was going.

The issue is MONEY, OUR Tax money.

Don't Race-Bait me, that's Bullshit and you know it.

Get a clue. :dunce:
It's not that difficult.:think:

[LeftishBrit]

57. No. You've chosen your own bogeynation.

The Republicans chose theirs. Different country; same principle.

How about taking a break from all this hate, and opposing your government's fanatically right-wing economic ideology? I'm doing that with my government's (less extreme but still bad) ideologies?

[Megahurtz]

59. Stop spreading your twisted lies about me.

I oppose my Governments ideology of handing over BILLIONS and BILLIONS of our Tax dollars to Israel. And if they were giving that money to any other Country I would oppose it as well.:think:

I don't care what Country it is or who they are.
Our Tax Dollars are needed here by the Citizens who paid those Taxes in the U.S. first.

It's crystal clear to me that you care nothing about the Health and Welfare of American Citizens.

You can use your diversive tactics to lie, twist, paint me out to be anything you want for your own biased gain, but it will not at all change the facts of my beliefs.

The Funding to Isreal should be cut off.
Our U.S. money should go no where else right now but to
stay in this Country for the benefit of it's own people.

BTW part of my Government's fanatically Right-Wing ideologies that you speak against
IS by handing BILLIONS of dollars over to Israel.

What does this come down to?:

Israel has the ways and means and money to protect itself,
so they don't need ours.
End of Story. :hi:

[LeftishBrit]

56. Xenophobia and hatred affect us all.

And as a matter of fact my country HAS been seriously affected for four years by allowing itself to be dragged into a war by the leaders of YOUR country; (the UK as a 'cubby-hole' under the circumstances - HUH!) but I don't go around hating America, or blaming it for our own leaders' bad policies.


'You try living over here for several years struggling and scraping the bottom with no help, no money, dwindling jobs and no benefits for the taxes you pay, no health care and watch it all happen to more and more people that live here by the day, and watch BILLIONS of tax dollars go to Israel.'


Do you seriously think aid to Israel is the cause of all this!!! Do you not think that right-wing economic policies, tax cuts for the rich and ideological opposition to a welfare state are the major causes? We had similar stuff under Maggie Thatcher; and we don't give much military aid to any country. And what about the spending on the war in Iraq - FAR more than anything that goes to Israel.

You think I support right-wing policies, just because I don't blame Israel for all of them? I opposed the war from day one. I have supported left-wing economic policies since before I was old enough to vote. I don't even support all the military aid to Israel - I think that military aid to ALL countries should be reduced in favour of humanitarian aid and support of peace processes. I just don't support DEMONIZING Israel and blaming it for all the problems that GEORGE FUCKING BUSH AND HIS GOVERNMENT are causing your country and the world.

[Megahurtz]

60. Israel Can Take Care of Themselves.

They have the ways and means and money to do it. They don't need ours. End of story.:hi:

[bvar22]

45. Israelis enjoy cradle to grave Universal Healthcare.

50 milliom Americans can't afford healthcare, and another 50 million+ are underinsured.
Maybe Israel can start sending us money? :shrug:

[Megahurtz]

46. Yes I forgot, we're paying for Israel's Free Healthcare!

:think: We are paying for their Healthcare with our taxes,
while we in the U.S. basically have no Healthcare!

Israel should be sending us money!

Now LeftishBrit, put that in your pipe and smoke it! :sarcasm:

[LeftishBrit]

58. Firstly, you aren't paying for their healthcare

Military aid doesn't go to healthcare (unfortunately, perhaps).

America didn't give Israel that much aid until the 1970s; and you didn't have a health service THEN. Already 25 or more years after many other countries had established one. So aid to Israel is not to blame for the failure to establish universal healthcare.

How about spending some of that energy on campaigning for your government to provide health care for its citizens, instead of spending it on hating another country? I'd be happy to donate and to provide information to such a campaign, and to rally other Brits to do so, if such help is seen as useful

[Megahurtz]

61. Indirectly we ARE paying for their Healthcare.

It doesn't take an accountant to figure that out.:think:
And we definitely should not be paying for their War Machine either.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KG]

30. israel has the most powerful, by far, military in the ME, plus nukes

yet they are protrayed, and portray themselves as defenseless victims. this shit has to stop.

[olddad56]

36. I think that the arab world is more endangered by Israel than visa versa.

[Tom Joad]

47. want to fight for a policy that supports justice & peace instead of militarism? may i suggest...

you go here...

http://www.endtheoccupation.org/

and maybe here...

www.stopAIPAC.org

[Megahurtz]

54. Thank You

for the much appreciated links! :hi:

[entanglement]

50. Israel opposes US withdrawal from Iraq, hopes for the rise of a pro-American "Saddam equivalent"

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/rosnerBlog.jhtml?itemNo=838445

[FVZA_Colonel]

62. Well, considering how badly Bush's policies in the Middle East have endangered Israel,

I can't understand why Olmert is so overtly concerned over the Democrats' policies (of course, considering how often the Democrats are now cowtowing to Bush, he's starting to have good reason.)

[David Zephyr]

64. I appreciate Steny Hoyer for addressing this issue.

Kudos to Hoyer. The Karl Roves of this world and the fundie evangelicals will do everything in the power to exploit any aprehensions that the Israeli public (people not government) may have about any changes that the Democrats may begin instituting both in the Congress and with a Democratic president taking office in 2009. Good move.