Powell tried to talk Bush out of war

[TexasLawyer]

Source: Sunday Times

From The Sunday Times
July 8, 2007
Powell tried to talk Bush out of war
Sarah Baxter, Washington

THE former American secretary of state Colin Powell has revealed that he spent 2½ hours vainly trying to persuade President George W Bush not to invade Iraq and believes today’s conflict cannot be resolved by US forces.

“I tried to avoid this war,” Powell said at the Aspen Ideas Festival in Colorado. “I took him through the consequences of going into an Arab country and becoming the occupiers.”

Powell has become increasingly outspoken about the level of violence in Iraq, which he believes is in a state of civil war. “The civil war will ultimately be resolved by a test of arms,” he said. “It’s not going to be pretty to watch, but I don’t know any way to avoid it. It is happening now.”

He added: “It is not a civil war that can be put down or solved by the armed forces of the United States.” All the military could do, Powell suggested, was put “a heavier lid on this pot of boiling sectarian stew”.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2042072.ece

[Avalux]

1. ...

As I read this article, I kept remembering his performance at the UN. He was instrumental is persuading people to believe Iraq had WMDs. Fuck him.

[Joe Bacon]

24. I don't believe a single word Powell says

That liar will say ANYTHING to ANYBODY. EVERYTHING that comes out of his mouth is a lie, including the belches.

He has NO credibility whatsoever!

[bricolage]

2. The pope was right about the war, also

As he was on so much.

[LordJFT]

3. wait a sec...

didn't he just recently make a statement saying the war was right and that the only problem was that Bush had no plan for the occupation?

[Phredicles]

9. That's also just what Greg Palast says of Powell in "Armed Madhouse"

I've been reading it today, which is how I know.O8)

[mitchum]

4. Colin, it's a little late to be covering your ass now, you tool (n/t)

[NanceGreggs]

5. Isn't that funny?

"Powell has become increasingly outspoken about the level of violence in Iraq ..."

In a related story, Powell was equally outspoken about the need to go to war when he delivered his presentation on Iraq's WMDs in front of the United Nations.

[CountAllVotes]

6. whatta crock & yet another pack of lies!

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Speaker]

7. He should have drawn him pictures in crayon.

Or hit him on the nose with a rolled up newspaper and said "No!!! No war!!"

[TexasLawyer]

8. I'm picturing Colin with his test tube in front of the UN--

making the case for war. This dude is doing some serious revisionist history.

[Phredicles]

12. Yeah, is he trying to lay the groundwork for a comeback?

He does seem to be trying to un-discredit himself. I hope for once people remember.

[UpInArms]

10. wow! a whole 2 1/2 hours to prevent idiocy and yet he did his

dog and pony show performance so handily before the UNSC with freedom medal tenet right behind him -

those 2 cards - they didn't want this war!

they tried their best to stop it!

give me a freakin' break.

liar colin - liar - now go rot off and die and go on to your own personal hell.

:istheiraniconforspit?:

[glowing]

22. Exactly what I was thinking.. I think our troops deserved more than

2 1/2 hours.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[koopie57]

48. if what he says is true

why didn't he simply refuse to be used as a fool.

And how in the world did that little pipsquek bush get Powell and others say, "I serve at the pleasure of my president". That makes me feel shame for them.

[bahrbearian]

11. Hey Colin, do you have anything new on the Ma Lia massacres

[MannyGoldstein]

13. If He Really Cared - He Should Have Resigned

That would have sent a message.

[hollowdweller]

43. Really. If he had quit and came out against it we might not be there people respected him back then

[MasonJar]

14. Then why did he go to the UN? He should have stood up at the UN

and declared the war a farce. No respect for the man!

[Spiffarino]

15. Damage control

He didn't seem so dovish when he was pimping Bush's Cheney's war at the UN.

I used to respect him before he got us into this god-awful war. Now, Colin Powell is dead to me. He can go to Hell.

[Doctor_J]

16. Trying to get on the ticket next year?

This disgrace has pulled this shit once too often.. Harry Belafonte correctly referred to him as the "House Negro" of the Bush family.

Go away, Colin. No one's listening

[EST]

17. It's flabbergasting!

Does that creep really think the entire nation is populated with mindless idiots who can't remember past last friday?
We are aware the puklicker party is made up largely of that sort, but there are many of us who do not hold with such blinders.

It is not beyond reason, given this jerk's track record, that Powell is actually demented, or suffering from mental illness. I'd prefer to think he has something unusual that is wrong with his brain, rather than that he is just a well behaved vicious cuss who enjoys all this. Hmmmm-could be true both ways, I guess.

[young_at_heart]

18. How does he sleep at night?

He's smart enough to know the hypocrisy level is in the red zone on his involvement. To say this now is an insult to the American people!

[DRoseDARs]

19. And yet he still went along with it. Sorry Colin, the sympathy ship left port years ago.

You're still part of this criminal cabal. You lost my respect the day you gave your little dog and pony show before the UN, showed the entire world the Bush Administration had exactly squat for evidence, and still presented it like it was smoking guns complete with video footage of Saddam firing them. Sorry, no take-backs. You're just as complicit and ought to be indicted as such.

[Harry Monroe]

20. He's Full of Shit

Nuff Said

[rubberducky]

21. He really needs to STFU.

He`s lost all his cred from the moment he appeared before the UN to plead the case for his master`s war. It makes me sick to think that I once respected the hell out of this man. There was a time I thought this man could do no wrong. Then he blew it. Big time. I felt so let down that day. I will never forget it or forgive him for unabashadly lying.

[Theduckno2]

23. It is easy to malign Colin Powell for his part in the run up to the Iraq War.

I would suggest that our interests here at the DU would be better served by having Powell speak out against the surge and continued occupation.

With the recent statements of influential Republicans speaking out against "stay-the-course" it should be seen as good thing for anyone to speak out against the policies of George Bush.

I believe one of the conclusions of the Baker-Hamilton report was that there were no good ways out of Iraq. I entirely agree with that sentiment and am willing to choke back some of my anger at those responsible for this war in Iraq, IF those responsible are working toward the best of the bad solutions to the war in Iraq.

George Bush's solution is the worst of all the bad solutions to the war in Iraq.

[MichiganVote]

25. Colin Powell and the rest of this bunch of stupid bastards can kidd my ass.

They aren't working at anything other than maintaining their power. Period. And I for one have no intention of cutting them any slack, anywhere, anytime. These people are power hungry jackals who think nothing of spinning and lying.

They are worthless public servants.

[Theduckno2]

30. The point is they have the power you speak of.

His viewpoint still holds sway with many, though not many here at the DU.

If they use that power to bring about a desirable solution to the war in Iraq, I can hold back some of my criticism in the hopes of getting others to come out in support of that desirable solution.

I personally like the way Powell's statements put the onus of war on the shoulders of George Bush. George Bush put forth a great deal of blather over the years about the Congressional authorization for war hoping to imply that Congress directed him to go to war in Iraq.

I wouldn't vote for Colin Powell to be town pooper scooper but I am cognizant of the fact that when he speaks some people listen (especially the MSM).

[MichiganVote]

55. You make more assumptions than I care to. CP "wishes" for power, he doesn't really have it.

[BearSquirrel2]

28. Nig*h dies, get another

I would suggest that our interests here at the DU would be better served by having Powell speak out against the surge and continued occupation.


The Republicans are just as aware of his little presentation at the UN as we are. Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, et al. will lynch him (ooh did I say that) over the discrepancy between what he DID say and what he NOW says. Powell was never a leader in the Republican party, he was and remains a token to them. They have Condi and Gonzalez around to fill the role of minority lapdog. He is disposable and we will see the disposal very shortly.

[Theduckno2]

31. Let them attack Powell to their listeners. If they undermine his UN speech...

...all the better. I won't shed a tear at the political demise of Colin Powell at the hands of Coulter etc, for in so doing they remove another veneer of respectability to their arguments for war in Iraq.

As for Condi and Gonzalez, I doubt that the two of them together could ever have the level of respectability that Colin Powell once enjoyed. The only ones who seem to care what Condi and Alberto have to say are those Congressional committees that are compelling their testimony.

We shouldn't affirm the actions of Colin Powell but we should act to encourage others to speak out against the policies of the Bush Administration.

[MiserableFailure]

61. Foul and offensive language

from you bearsquirrel in your subject

disgusting

[BearSquirrel2]

65. Irony ...

It was meant to be ironic. This was a phrase used by wardens at Angola to describe what to do when their forced laborers were literally worked to death.

The subject was alluding to the attitude I believe the Republican leadership has to their minority membership.

[ckramer]

26. If he had resigned after the failed persuasion, he would be president now.

Duh.

[MaineDem]

40. Very good point!

He'd be leading the current polls at the very least.

[BearSquirrel2]

27. Ahh the "Too late do anything about it Times" ...

Perhaps if he had threatened to resign, that would have helped. To top it off, he was was COMPLETELY elbowed out of the reconstruction planning as the Pentagon scrapped the state department's plan.

Nice work Colin. Way to "work it from the inside". Is that a bottle of anthrax in your pocket, or are you just happy to see us?

[Vidar]

29. It makes sense. As a competent general, he could probably

foresee the quagmire we are in. But it doesn't excuse Powell's many sins in aiding this treasonous regime.

[jaysunb]

32. He deserves our flames, but

wouldn't it be better to support his current position and remember his now prescient warning " if you break it, you own it, " admonition back then ?

Let's get smart people...go to war with the army you have....

[MilesColtrane]

33. Two and half hours?

I guess he didn't use big, colorful pictures with single syllable captions.

Will the judges at the Hague buy the general's revisionism?
Yeah, Colin lay it on thick about how you were the lone voice of reason crying in the wilderness, instead of a pathetic factotum for the neocons.

Oh, and get your freaking metaphors straight. Is Iraq a Pottery Barn with it's inventory smashed, or is it a tasty cauldron of civil war soup?

[rodeodance]

34. He is laughing all the way to the bank-as he picks up speaking fees.

[SKKY]

36. Unfortunately, Powell is now in the John McCain category for me.

[davidthegnome]

37. Hmm...

I agree with the posters that said we need to use what we have. I'm not fond of the man, but if he's speaking out against the war - and if he influences anyone at all, it's better than nothing. It's better than if he had continued to promote and support the war in Iraq. Whatever his reasons, whatever his intentions, it is very possible that this will have (some) positive effect.

So, while I still think he's a jackass, I'm pleased about this.

[peacebird]

38. why didn't Powell go public and QUIT when doing so would have made a difference then?

:wtf:

useless twit is just trying to salvage his reputation. TOO LATE - you proved you were a "loyal bushie". The TROOPS UNDER YOUR CARE DESERVED MUCH MUCH BETTER.

May you live long and always be forced to remember how many poor innocents had their lives destroyed BECAUSE OF YOU. Iraqi and American blood spilt BECAUSE OF YOU.

YOU were the only one with any credibility and you were USED. You LET YOURSELF BE USED.

You deserve no pity. You EARNED the revulsion and disgust that you now recieve.

[MaineDem]

39. Bull shit!

If he felt so strongly about it then he should have resigned!

Too little too late. And, frankly, this really pisses me off.

[Scooter24]

41. The same Powell that went before the UN Security Council with satellite photos

claiming that we KNEW were the stock piles of weapons were?

Wow...it's been a long time since I've actually said that phrase. Seems only a distant memory when we were once talking about going to Iraq because of their weapons of mass destruction.

[focusfan]

42. if he tried to talk Bush out of a war

then why did he say there was Weapons of Mass Destruction

[missTheBigDog]

44. What a tool

Thanks for nothing, you hypocrite!

[Vinca]

45. I might believe this if Powell had resigned in protest. nt

[whistle]

46. I wonder why Bush and others did not respect Powell's arguments

...as Secretary of State to avoid war and keep diplomacy open and going until the last possible moment and just dismissed Powell's plea?

[missTheBigDog]

47. Because he wanted revenge on SH

...for trying to kill his dad.

[Javaman]

49. The latest mia culpa from someone that doesn't want to go down in history

as a war criminal.

To late ass for name.

[acmavm]

50. Why do they keep reporting anything this guy says? He'll change

his story in five minutes, so don't count on ANYTHING that comes out of the mouth of the My Lai Manipulator.

Dumb asses all think they can come out now and lie their asses off and end up looking good in the history books. Fools.

[DinahMoeHum]

51. Powell is not a man. He is less than a man. Three-fifths of one, actually.

A real man would have resigned his office rather than be a party to lies, deceit and corruption.

Sorry, Powell. No getting off the hook on this one.

:evilfrown:

[BigDDem]

52. Then why the dog and pony show at the UN?

Pick a lie and stick with it Colin.
Hope Obama is proud to have him as an advisor.

[Barrett808]

53. Happy to be the first to rec. n/t

[WindRavenX]

54. Why was Powell even associating with these numbnuts?

It's pretty clear now he was being used and manipulated, but why was he even staying around in the administration when he was clearly the only rational one on board?

[JohnyCanuck]

57. Powell has been a toady and a tool since his Viet Nam days.

He's apparently quite experienced at covering the asses of war criminals.

Behind Colin Powell's Legend -- My Lai

But a test soon confronted Maj. Powell. A letter had been written by a young specialist fourth class named Tom Glen, who had served in an Americal mortar platoon and was nearing the end of his Army tour. In a letter to Gen. Creighton Abrams, the commander of all U.S. forces in Vietnam, Glen accused the Americal division of routine brutality against civilians. Glen's letter was forwarded to the Americal headquarters at Chu Lai where it landed on Maj. Powell's desk.

"The average GI's attitude toward and treatment of the Vietnamese people all too often is a complete denial of all our country is attempting to accomplish in the realm of human relations," Glen wrote. "Far beyond merely dismissing the Vietnamese as 'slopes' or 'gooks,' in both deed and thought, too many American soldiers seem to discount their very humanity; and with this attitude inflict upon the Vietnamese citizenry humiliations, both psychological and physical, that can have only a debilitating effect upon efforts to unify the people in loyalty to the Saigon government, particularly when such acts are carried out at unit levels and thereby acquire the aspect of sanctioned policy."

Glen's letter contended that many Vietnamese were fleeing from Americans who "for mere pleasure, fire indiscriminately into Vietnamese homes and without provocation or justification shoot at the people themselves." Gratuitous cruelty was also being inflicted on Viet Cong suspects, Glen reported.

SNIP

Glen's letter echoed some of the complaints voiced by early advisers, such as Col. John Paul Vann, who protested the self-defeating strategy of treating Vietnamese civilians as the enemy. In 1995, when we questioned Glen about his letter, he said he had heard second-hand about the My Lai massacre, though he did not mention it specifically. The massacre was just one part of the abusive pattern that had become routine in the division, he said.

Maj. Powell's Response

The letter's troubling allegations were not well received at Americal headquarters. Maj. Powell undertook the assignment to review Glen's letter, but did so without questioning Glen or assigning anyone else to talk with him. Powell simply accepted a claim from Glen's superior officer that Glen was not close enough to the front lines to know what he was writing about, an assertion Glen denies.

After that cursory investigation, Powell drafted a response on Dec. 13, 1968. He admitted to no pattern of wrongdoing. Powell claimed that U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were taught to treat Vietnamese courteously and respectfully. The Americal troops also had gone through an hour-long course on how to treat prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions, Powell noted.

"There may be isolated cases of mistreatment of civilians and POWs," Powell wrote in 1968. But "this by no means reflects the general attitude throughout the Division." Indeed, Powell's memo faulted Glen for not complaining earlier and for failing to be more specific in his letter.

Powell reported back exactly what his superiors wanted to hear. "In direct refutation of this portrayal," Powell concluded, "is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

Powell's findings, of course, were false. But it would take another Americal hero, an infantryman named Ron Ridenhour, to piece together the truth about the atrocity at My Lai. After returning to the United States, Ridenhour interviewed Americal comrades who had participated in the massacre.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html

[lovuian]

56. I believe in redemption and Powell seems to be genuinely

screwed by Bush used and abused

he's worst sin is standing up before the UN with that travesty of evidence against Iran

[David Zephyr]

58. Blah, blah, blah. Colin's son, Michael, turned the media over to his employers.

Don't give Powell any credit. He's as much a part of the Iraqi War as Cheney and Bush.

[0007]

59. What an asswipe! nt

[JerseygirlCT]

60. "the British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of

uranium from Africa".

I find it difficult to feel at all sorry for Powell now.

[ProudDad]

62. I'll take my anti-war allies wherever I can

One more chink in the bush armor...

My problem with Powell is that he's stupid enough to believe that there ARE occasions when was is "called for"...

[MiserableFailure]

63. I remember Powell during Gulf War I,

his duplicitous nature has not changed a bit I see.

[NonRepuke]

64. Bush ruined Powell

There was a time when I thought Colin Powell could one day run for president. That was before Bush turned him into a filthy liar and ruined his career.