Australia plans to ban alcohol, pornography for Aborigines to fight child abuse

[Poll_Blind]

Source: Associated Press

CANBERRA, Australia – Australia's prime minister announced plans Thursday to ban pornography and alcohol for Aborigines in northern areas and tighten control over their welfare benefits to fight child sex abuse among them.

Some Aboriginal leaders rejected the plan as paternalistic and said the measures were discriminatory and would violate the civil rights of the country's original inhabitants. But others applauded the initiative and recommended extending the welfare restrictions to Aborigines in other parts of the country.

Minister John Howard was responding to a report last week that found sexual abuse of children to be rampant in indigenous communities in the Northern Territory. The report said the abuse was fueled by endemic alcohol abuse, unemployment, poverty and other factors causing a breakdown in traditional society.

“This is a national emergency,” Howard told Parliament. “We're dealing with a group of young Australians for whom the concept of childhood innocence has never been present.”

Read more: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070621-0300-australia-aborigines.html

---

These are the points of the plan as described by The Age (an Australian newspaper) Full article:

■Alcohol will be banned in some regions for six months, and X-rated porn outlawed in communities and on public computers.

■The need for outsiders to have permits to get into townships and roads on indigenous land will be scrapped.

■Every Aboriginal child under 16 will be required to have a medical check-up at federal expense.

■States have been asked to donate 10 police officers each to boost the uniformed presence in each community, working alongside federal bureaucrats who will be sent to live in selected regions as town managers.

■Centrelink will immediately begin quarantining 50 per cent of welfare payments to people in the communities, which can only be spent on food and other essentials. Further money can be docked if children fail to attend school, and to pay for meals for the children.

■Welfare recipients will be forced to help clean up homes and streets to ensure safe and hygienic living conditions, with managers able to inspect houses.

  This move is really interesting to me. What do you folks think about this? Would you feel the same if this report were about Native American reservations? To me, it's a very mixed bag of benefits that everyone wants (the protection of the children) versus the right of self-determination of a native people (to take care of their own affairs). I am leaving and probably won't be able to reply much or at all until much later tonight but for people interested in chewing on ideas about what a federal government can or cannot do (or should or should not do), this seems a great example of a quandry: How do you solve this problem from a Progressive point of view? Howard is very conservative, but is his solution acceptable from a Progressive standpoint? What suggestions or changes would make, if any?

  The more one wants to jump into the situation (as their federal government has) the stickier things get. And this is, as they say, a sticky wicket. Ok, I don't know if anyone still says that but you get the point.

PB

[Taverner]

1. Fucked up, paternalistic and in the end, racist

Why can whites view porn but aborigines can't?

Same with Alchohol...basically this is a form of apartheid. Just because they are given a financial incentive doesn't make it right.

[ThomCat]

2. It sounds blatantly racist on the face of it.

It sounds paternalistic.

Why ban alcohol and porn for only this one group of people? Why not restrict alcohol and porn for everyone if they think that this would be some kind of solution?

Medical exams for all kids is a good idea, but are the doctors going to be hunting for excuses to remove the kids from parental custody? Is the purpose of the exam really going to be just to ensure the health of the children? Given the rest of this, I'd have my doubts.

[Recursion]

16. Here in DC...

...stores in certain wards (guess which ones?) aren't allowed to sell 40s even though they have to pay the exact same for a liquor license as everyone else (at least, that was true last year; I don't know if they overturned it). Apparently it's not the poverty, lack of economic and educational opportunity, lack of affordable housing, abuse and/or neglect from police, or crime that is ruining these neighborhoods, it's people drinking a 40 on their stoop.

[ThomCat]

18. Of course.

The guys in charge have to find some trivial characterist to blame. It certainly can't be a societally constructed problem. :sarcasm:

That's why it's against the law in so many places for kids to hang out on the corner. Middle class kids have x-boxes at home, and paid activities their parents send them to, and all kinds of places to be other than outside in the neighborhood. But poor kids often hang out outside because it's either that or sit in front of the TV. Got to criminalize those kids somehow, and get them used to the idea that it's all their fault for not being rich and/or white.
x(

[Recursion]

20. Don't forget air conditioning

A lot of the rowhouses here don't have it, so people want to sit on their stoops so they don't, oh, I don't know, die of heat prostration. But then the yuppies who put in AC when they gentrified their crack house can't stand the site of all these black and latino people sitting on their stoops "plotting God knows what" (an actual quote).

[ThomCat]

21. That's a damned good point.

If you don't have AC, and your family can't afford weekend excursions, then you're going to be outside in your own neighborhood.

[barb162]

19. Yes, it's really racist.

[Orrex]

3. It's a good thing that they've got the master race to watch out for them

Or else how could they hope to survive on their own?

[slackmaster]

4. Racism, prohibition, authoritarianism, and puritanism all in one package

What's to like about it?

[rocktivity]

12. DING DING DING! Slackmaster, you're our grand prize winner!

I thought the head aborigine had done the equivalent of issuing a fatwa! If this is the government's idea for them only, it's downright medieval!

rocknation
:wow:

[Forkboy]

15. No shit.

What a fucked up idea.

[truebrit71]

32. Nothing. You hit the nail on the head.

And their PM is a fucking dickhead.

[SayWhatYo]

5. I understand SOMEof what they are doing, but why ban porn?

The banning of porn and alcohol doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me. Of course child porn shouldn't be tolerated, but I would assume that is already case... Then again, I don't know the entire situation and what would even bring the need for such drastic measures. Curious as to what some of the Aussies have to say about this.

[Poll_Blind]

9. Both of the articles go into more detail but basically the report boils....

...down to this (excuse my paraphrasing, the articles do a much better job): Because of higher unemployment alcohol and pornography are much more prevalent as is children's' exposure to both, but especially pornography which, in a way, prepares them for premature sexual interaction with adults.

  Now, you could say this about almost any ghetto in America and a lot of places in America that "we" wouldn't consider ghettos. For instance, in my neck of the woods (Oregon) there is a big problem with meth. I didn't realize how bad meth was for families and communities (not just individuals) until I read a few reports on it. Basically meth in the household is like 50 times more likely to expose children to sexual situations than a household which does not. Meth apparently increases the libido for some people and it also destroys their judgment so mom who is on meth winds up having sex with her boyfriend on the couch (who also does meth) right in front of the kids who are watching cartoons. This is all super "nut-shelled", but it's hideous and it wasn't something that I'd even thought about.

  Anyway, I guess my point was we've got situations like this in America which are fairly rampant and in many cases actually more acute than the Aborigines.

PB

[Bridget Burke]

27. So: the problems are Unemployment, Alcohol & Pornography....

But they aren't going to do anything about Unemployment.

[ejbr]

17. My concern is that banning porn could backfire

"I can't get off watching porn, so why not rape somebody, child or not?"

[AspenRose]

6. The Great White Father knows what's best for colored folks.

:sarcasm:

Meanwhile....

A court in Australia has found a police officer not guilty of the manslaughter and assault of an Aboriginal man who died in police custody.
Cameron Doomadgee died in 2004, having been arrested for public drunkenness after verbally abusing the police in Palm Island, Queensland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6220974.stm

And yes, the police officer was white.

[zanne]

7. Wow.

Sometimes, I concentrate so much on what's wrong with this country, I forget about what's wrong with other countries.

[soothsayer]

8. Didn't they used to take Aboriginal babies away from them until like the '70's?

And try to raise them and then maybe return them? There's still not alot of black folks in Australia, said a friend who just visited (he saw one guy---an American tourist).

[mitchum]

34. Yes, they did (n/t)

[Josh]

56. Yes, it's referred to as the "Stolen Generation"

and it was a disgusting policy that took place exclusively under conservative governments (strangely enough referred to here as the Liberal Party). It's the issue over whether an apology will ever be offered by the government; successive opposition leaders (and the Deputy leader of the Liberal Party, Peter Costello) have said that they favour an apology, but Howard says he is not personally responsible and wasn't there, and his government had nothing to do with the policy, so he refuses to apologise.

On the point of seeing black people in Australia, though, Aborigines make up 2% of the population, so it's not like in England or the States. I know an Aborigine, Bob, who plays trivia at a bar I frequent, but the population percentages do make it unlikely that you'll run into a lot of Aborigines when you're in town. And a lot of them are concentrated in certain areas, which is part of the integration problem that has led to such paternalistic policies as the one being considered now - which, I must say, is not the overtly racist White Father State thing that most people make it out to be here. There is a genuinely huge child sex abuse and alcoholism problem in a lot of Aboriginal areas and it does need more enforcement and attention - but in a consultative, community based way, probably not the 'send in the troops' mentality that Howard seems to have opted for.

[Akoto]

10. As ridiculous as it is racist.

If someone is committing acts of child abuse, they were already messed up before the booze and the porn. I don't see how either one of those could cause the problem, excluding child porn, which should obviously be banned (but is still just a symptom of an inherent problem with the individual).

[pretty_lies]

11. Australia Is Apartheid South Africa With Better PR

At least with respect to the 500,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders living there.

In one of the world's most advanced nations, these people have about the same life expectancy as Somalians. No, seriously, go look it up.

And the main problem is healthcare. Despite Australia operating at a budget surplus, there is hardly any regular access to hospitals and doctors for Aborigines.

Government spending per capita is claimed to be slightly higher but this in no way covers the additional cost of building the required infrastructure in rural communities that would give Aborigines the same health access as other Australians. And it's the same with other state services like police, social work, education and so on. These people are very much not part of the Australian state system.

It's convenient for the Howard Government to blame Aborigines for their own problems, but that's unreasonable and frankly racist (Howard's been elected twice based on Australia's dislike of non-white refugees, so no surprise there). If you deny a large group of people effective healthcare, of course their society will start to collapse.

I think the situation's a complete disgrace. Australia cannot and should not get away with this.

The world community should BOYCOTT AUSTRALIA until they treat their indigenous people like human beings. You heard me right. Australia should be ostracized from the world until they give Aborigines the services they deserve.

[A HERETIC I AM]

24. Regarding access to health care for Aborigines

And the main problem is health care. Despite Australia operating at a budget surplus, there is hardly any regular access to hospitals and doctors for Aborigines.

Do you have any idea how large the Northern Territory is? Do you have any idea where the majority of Aboriginals live in Australia? Do you comprehend just exactly how large a space it is? Think of it as Nevada, with proportionately the same number of large cities and the vastness of unpopulated areas. Except the biggest city is about like Carson City and the 2nd biggest city is the size of Winnemucca. Yeah...think of it as Nevada with one caveat: Nevada is the size of about 10 decent sized cattle stations in the NT.

Here is a couple of things to bear in mind about that continent;

It is roughly the land area of the lower 48 contiguous states but has the population equivalent to the Los Angeles/San Diego Metroplex. On the entire continent there are less miles of limited access highway than in Los Angeles County alone.

There are roughly 366,000 individuals who, on the 2001 census declared themselves "Aboriginal".

I lived in the NT in the 70's and traveled quite a bit around Alice Springs and up into the center/eastern part of the Territory as well as down to Ayers Rock. The Aboriginals that stayed in the town limits of Alice Springs numbered perhaps 2000 to 4000 depending on the season. Look at a map of the NT. "The Alice" is the only town of any size from Adelaide to Darwin and even though Tennant Creek has a hospital, the only one of any decent size covering literally hundreds of thousands of square miles is the Hospital In Alice Springs.

It isn't about "access".

It is about remoteness, isolation and a deep seated, ancient set of old traditions of tribal reliance that the white man in Australia has yet to come to grips with. When these ancient traditions came into contact with the modern world, difficulties were bound to arise. The Australian Government has been struggling with it for over a century. They often get it wrong.

[pretty_lies]

28. You Don't Seem To Know The Facts

It is about access to and funding of basic healthcare which the Federal Government is ignoring. The fact that communities are remote is not an excuse to deny them basic rights.

The Australian Medical Association and Oxfam both say that Aboriginal healthcare is chronically underfunded and the cause of their terrible condition.

The campaign to blame the victims by sensationalizing sexual abuse rather than treating the underlying cause of ill health and desperate social conditions is plain racist.

http://www.oxfam.org.au/campaigns/indigenous/health.php
Research commissioned by the Australian Medical Association has revealed that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health is currently under-funded to the tune of $450 million annually.

http://www.ama.com.au/web.nsf/doc/WEEN-6SC63B
In its Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health Report Card earlier this year, the AMA revealed that, despite some new investment, the shortfall in funding for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander primary health care services has blown out to about $460 million a year.

“The Government can drive a reversal of this story with a concerted investment across a wide range of sectors over at least the next 10 years.”

“I repeat the AMA’s recent call for a Federal Budget commitment to Indigenous health of $1.8 billion over the next four years,” Dr Haikerwal said.

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. Underfunding is one thing but if the population is so spread out as to make it near impossible

to reach them all, or even the communities that are reachable, the population has a tribal societal structure and does not think in ways that the average westerner can understand, the problem is exacerbated.

You are right. I don't seem to know the facts and i have yet to read the long list of articles that pertain to this situation. But i have lived there, albeit 30 years ago, so i am somewhat familiar with the situation the Aboriginal Australians have faced for over a century.

But I suspect that you must be a native of the outback to be so well versed on how to solve the problems of a population that is spread so thinly over such a large area that it numbers in the single person per tens of square miles.

I defer to your obviously superior grasp of the goings on in the Northern Territory and North Western Queensland. How are things in Mt. Isa these days?

[pretty_lies]

31. Why Don't You Take It Up With The Australian Medical Association?

I think the AMA know what they are talking about. Funding basic health care in rural townships is entirely feasible but the Australian Federal Government refuses to do this.

Aboriginal health systems and other basic state needs are deeply underfunded and most white Australians don't care. They are complacent about keeping Aboriginal people in third world squalor. Your implying their "societal structure" is the cause of the problem is a typical blame-the-victim attitude when there is well-researched and ample evidence, which I showed, that the cause is a simple lack of healthcare.

The situation will only change when Australians are forced to confront their own racist attitudes. Decent-thinking people in foreign countries should demand a TOTAL BOYCOTT of Australia until they stop denying basic human rights to Aborigines.

[A HERETIC I AM]

35. Oh Bullshit

Your implying their "societal structure" is the cause of the problem is a typical blame-the-victim attitude

I in no way am blaming the victim here. If you read my first response to your post - the one in which you stated

Australia Is Apartheid South Africa With Better PR

You will note i said the Australian Government has been struggling with their relationship with the Aboriginals for over a century. I do not deny, not for one single second that there is a deep seated racism prevalent among many white Australians. There is also a deep seated guilt among most Aussies of a progressive mindset because of the failures of successive Prime Ministers and Parliaments to properly address their needs which are far more complex than you are probably aware. How could i possibly say this with the firm conviction i have knowing it is the truth? BECAUSE I LIVED THERE! Have you ever even BEEN to Australia? Since you used the expression "Rural townships" in your attempt to express your understanding, i have no choice but to conclude that it is YOU that "don't seem to know the facts" about how the Aboriginals live, where they live, in what fashion they live, why they live where they live, how they care for each other, how they view westernized medicine and education and the difficulties encountered when 20th century society tries to "help" a culture that DOES NOT EVEN COUNT THE CENTURIES.

However, there are many millions more in Australia that do have the best interest of the continents original inhabitants at heart but efforts to truly help them have often failed not for lack of trying but because of reasons that go back for over a hundred years; reasons i feel there is no point in debating with you. Does more need to be done? Absolutely. Would your absurd idea of a boycott hurry it along? No. Not in a million years.

What you seem to think the Australian Government needs to do is akin to building a hospital every 100 miles across the vast and mostly desolate outback in order to be able to treat the dozen or so families that might (or might not) be staying near them. The Australians never put the Aborigines on reservations, they don't confine them to townships and they don't require them to carry ID cards in order to enter a white area. Suggesting Australia has anything like "Apartheid" is disingenuous and demonstrates a lack of a true grasp of what is a national problem for a country 12,000 miles from the US.

I know there are a number of Aussies who post on DU and I am very curious what their take is on this situation. At least they would have a realistic grasp on the situation. You clearly do not.

[avrdream]

45. I have said this in other threads but can speak well on this subject.

I am an American doctor who works as an OBGYN in Queensland, Australia. Part of my job is to fly to remote Aboriginal communities to deliver specialty health care. A lot of money goes into sending another doctor and me (and a midwife on a few of the trips) but the "system" has come to realize that this is the only way to get reliable health care to this group of people since they really do have an inherent distrust of "white doctors in the city".

I go to 5 different communities. One of them is alcohol restricted. If you want to look up the amazing things that have come out of that one community, Google "The Lockhart River Art Gang". The other communities are not controlled in anyway. One of them, Hopevale, has the highest rate of CHILDHOOD (yes, those under age 13) Chlamydia in the nation. Folks, you know how Chlamydia is spread so I won't get into that.

Does this mean I support what John Howard is doing in the Northern Territory? On the one hand, I have seen the horrible conditions in some Aboriginal communities. On the other hand, my reaction when I heard the news today was one of horror. Part of it seems like an election ploy by Howard. He hasn't shown much care about the plight of Aboriginals until now, in an election year.

I have seen alcohol restriction help the Aboriginals but I cringe to think about it being imposed on them.

Anything whatsoever that can be done to prevent more of the horrible child abuse that goes on here should be welcomed.

Sorry I don't give a clear answer but these are my observations. From the outside looking in, it seems terrible, but from the inside I can confirm that things really are bad. Just not sure if this is the right way to go about it.

[A HERETIC I AM]

48. Very cool! A real live member of the "Flying Doctor" service.

Thank you for your insightful and knowledgeable post. You obviously have real world experience and it sounds fascinating. It is my understanding that Howard is the Aussie version of Bush so nothing that comes out of his administration would surprise me in the least.

However, as you state;

Anything whatsoever that can be done to prevent more of the horrible child abuse that goes on here should be welcomed.

It seems to me, as i stated above, the problems in the Aboriginal populations are complex and very old in origin. How does one fix something that is terribly difficult to fix seems to be something that the Australian government has been grappling with for a very long time.

[avrdream]

49. We sit around and talk about this.

Probably it comes down to education. If violence has always been their way of solving things, they need to see that other ways work better. My observation is that you won't get anywhere with changing these poor behaviors until you get the Elders involved and THEY see the reason for the change. When they believe that change is the way to go, it filters down.

As you say, this is a very old and complex society and it sometimes seems that there isn't anything that can be done. As an outsider looking at this administration, though, it looks like they don't care enough to take the necessary steps. Bush junior, indeed.

[sandnsea]

13. Some reservations have banned alcohol

I don't know about porn. I think it's okay when the tribes make that decision themselves, but not when the national government does it or when it's tied to cash benefits. If they want to do something like this, then it would have to be for ALL welfare recipients, not just a targeted group.

[JPZenger]

51. If Elected Tribal Leaders Decide, that is one Thing

It is one thing if elected tribal leaders decide to ban alcohol on their own reservation. There are many towns in the Pennsylvania where the public through referendum have banned the sale of alcohol. It is a little different for a national government to make that decision for one group of people.

[AX10]

14. Australia is an ugly country.

They are a 21st Century South Africa. :puke:

[A HERETIC I AM]

37. Have you ever been to Australia?

Have you ever been to South Africa?

If the answer is no to both, how is it you could draw such a conclusion and comparison?

For the record, I've lived in Australia but have never been on the African continent.

[Josh]

55. Well I LIVE in Australia -

so I get pretty pissed off when some ass here decides to just label us the 21st Century South Africa and call us an Ugly Country. We're not perfect. We've got a horrible record of race relations, it's true, but this particular policy initiative isn't what you think it is.

For the record there is a major, MAJOR problem with child sexual abuse in Aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory here. There have been THIRTEEN reports PLEADING with the government to step in and do something serious about it in the last several years. Howard is finally getting off his arse and doing it because it's an election year and, faced with the most serious opposition in his political life, he needs a big issue to make him look powerful and like he's out there doing things.

The biggest problem with the plan, as Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd has said, is that it seems almost spur of the moment. There hasn't been the kind of wide-ranging consultation that might be necessary to make it work completely effectively, but the rationale behind it is solid.

Some people here should get their facts straight rather than just making immediate knee-jerk reactions left, right, and centre.

Thank you Heretic for pointing out the ignorance of the previous post: it was a massive generalisation with no basis in objective reality.

[rodeodance]

22. seem like they need a way to make a living----like jobs.

[A HERETIC I AM]

36. It is difficult to give a job to someone who see no need for a job.

Many tens of thousands of Aboriginals lead, by western standards anyway, productive, wage earning lives. Many tens of thousands of others lead lives that no number of jobs will alter.

[Sapere aude]

23. And what is being done about alcohol abuse, unemployment, poverty and other factors ?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

25. Anytime the government uses...

"Chile sexual abuse" or "child porn" as a reason to do something new and draconian, I get real suspicious. Not to minimize these horrible offenses against children, mind you. I have worked with the victims of such abuse, as a case manager, and I know quite well the lifetime of issues that arise from it. That said, it seems to me that if government wants to enact moves that erode and even strip freedoms and rights from its citizens, they always seem to find child abuse and porn, along with terrorism and drugs, as the goto arguments and reasons.

My Ozzie friends tell me that on the right, in Oz, there is a lot of people who just get crosseyed enraged about the Aboriginal people and their benefits and whatnot. It seems tailor-made for a little demagoguing and oppression by the Howard government. They must have an election coming up.

[Alexander]

26. Racist nanny-state crap.

I would personally take up arms against my own government if they tried that here.

And I'm not even Native American.

[olddad56]

30. Child abuse is very prevalent everywhere...

What does Australia plan for the rest of the population.

[mitchum]

33. Certainly seems that the Australian government is firm in its CONVICTions (n/t)

once a penal colony always a penal colony

[JerseygirlCT]

38. Paternalistic and racist to be sure

How about treating the aborigines as people and working to improve their lives -- you know the ones that are miserable because of the white society that took over their country? (Hmmm... sounds familiar, doesn't it?)

Making health care available is great -- does it need to be tied to "and no more dessert for a month, and you're grounded!"?

How about jobs, education, a chance to improve their lives and their community's lives instead?

[KamaAina]

39. Bear in mind that, once Blair is gone, Howard will be the last person on Earth

outside the White House, who actually supports Bush** and his insane oil war. Therefore, nothing that comes from him should really come as that much of a surprise.

But really. What about people of partial Aboriginal ancestry? Do they still get to drink beer and wine, just not the hard stuff? Or will there be a special early "last call" just for them? :sarcasm: And what about porn? Will animal porn still be OK? After all, it would presumably only lead to animal cruelty. :sarcasm: This is like a flashback to the 19th century. :puke:

The report said the abuse was fueled by endemic alcohol abuse, unemployment, poverty and other factors causing a breakdown in traditional society.

Maybe if they dealt with the unemployment and poverty and stuff, the rampant alcohol abuse that goes with it would go away, taking the child abuse with it? Nah, too squishy-soft liberal. Or maybe they could take the abuse victims away and place them with good, sober, porn-free, God-fearing white families down south? Oh, right, been there, done that. :grr:

edit: spelling

[A HERETIC I AM]

40. One question that is being ignored is: what defines "traditional society"?

You state;

Maybe if they dealt with the unemployment and poverty and stuff, the rampant alcohol abuse that goes with it would go away, taking the child abuse with it?

I asked this question above: How do you deal with unemployment when it concerns a population that has historically seen no need for it, as defined by western standards? How do you deal with poverty when it concerns a population who counts among its members, people who feel wealthy simply because they claim ownership to 2, eight by ten foot pieces of corrugated, galvanized steel and 6 dogs?

It isn't that all Australian Aboriginals look at existence this way but there is a large percentage of them that do. There are many tens of thousands that fit into what you and i might consider "traditional society" but there are also tens of thousands who want nothing to fucking do with that concept. They see it as pointless.

Figure out how to fix that and you will be years ahead of the struggling Australian government.

[KamaAina]

41. Actually I believe the phrase refers to traditional *Aboriginal* society

as opposed to the Western one that you and I might consider "traditional".

We have some similar issues with our native Hawaiian population. The mad rush toward Westernization and assimilation has left many feeling rootless and disconnected from the 'aina (land), with similar, though far less intense, results.

So perhaps you are right: In an indigenous society, employment rates, GDP, etc. are not really useful as measures of society's success (as if they were in the West, either). Hopefully this unwarranted intrusion will serve as a catalyst for Aboriginal Australians to reclaim their culture the way native Hawaiians began to do in the late '70s.

[A HERETIC I AM]

43. But is that at all possible in this millenium?

Hopefully this unwarranted intrusion will serve as a catalyst for Aboriginal Australians to reclaim their culture the way native Hawaiians began to do in the late '70s.

How successful have the Hawaiians been in this endeavor? Is it truly the path they as a group desire? Or is it merely nostalgia and pining for the way things used to be hopelessly wedged against the irresistible forces of progress and civilization?

It is my opinion that the native of the outback will NEVER be able to truly reclaim their culture and their way of life as it was known to their grandfathers grandfather. Or rather, it will happen with the same likelihood as the resurgence of the great Horse Culture of the Lakota Sioux. These people are unfortunately caught between the dreamtime and having space junk fall on their heads. A paradox of our age.

[BushOut06]

42. Them Aborigines just need to find Jesus!

Build more Christian churches! Once the savages learn about Jesus and all his glories, they'll give up their godless ways!

:sarcasm:

[Eugene]

44. AFP: Australian clampdown on Aborigines condemned as racist

Source: Agence France-Presse

Australian clampdown on Aborigines condemned as racist

2 hours, 5 minutes ago

SYDNEY (AFP) - An Australian government plan to ban alcohol
and pornography in Aboriginal communities to try to curb
rampant child sexual abuse was labelled racist and knee-jerk
by indigenous groups Friday.

Prime Minister John Howard announced the unprecedented
measures on Thursday following a government report detailing
paedophilia and juvenile prostitution in Aboriginal communities
across Australia's vast Northern Territory.

As government ministers appealed on national television for
health professionals to help solve what Howard described as
a "national emergency", critics said Canberra's plan had been
hastily prepared and poorly thought out.

Indigenous activist Michael Mansell accused Howard of trying
to stir hysteria against Aborigines ahead of national elections
later this year, where the prime minister's conservative
government will seek a fifth term in office.

-snip-

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070622/ts_afp/australianativecrimechildsex_070622042127

[LeftishBrit]

46. Admittedly I don't live there; but it sounds totally wrong

Like trying to get a quick solution, to something that has no quick solution, by being strict with the Natives for their Own Good (very 19th-century!)

Why not ask the Aboriginal communities what *they* think might help to solve the problems?

As an outsider, trying to reduce poverty and discrimination would seem to be important here. And of course policing and punishing actual cases of child sex abuse - not policing and punishing people just for the 'crime' of being Aboriginal.

And for the voters to boot Howard out; he sounds worse than Thatcher!!!

[TZ]

52. Hmmm let me tell you what I heard...

from our skeptical DU friend Random Australian who talked about this issue on another forum:
Someone asked this:"Is this causing protests in Oz, other than from the aborigines themselves?"
The response:"No."

"Why? After all, it's not a very good cause of action, really. Probably won't do all that much good. And the person who ordered it is a complete git.

But do you know what? In other countries, there are issues with the native people and what happened to them.

But not like here.

Here, Aboriginal life expectancy at birth is twenty-two YEARS* less than the rest of the population. Rates of everything from diabetes to petrol sniffing are through the roof.

The latest report also shows child abuse is unbelievably freaking rampant as well.

Yeah, this is heavy-handed action. But all in all, at least they are doing something."
I know he won't mind me quoting him here, and I think he has a better perspective on this than us non-Aussie's.

:hi:

[pitohui]

54. the life expectancy on many native american reservations is just as low

i think it's the mid forties at pine ridge for example -- same thing, rates of diabetes and substance abuse are thru the roof

nonetheless i don't think usa gov would be able to disallow alcohol and porn for residents of pine ridge while allowing whites in other parts of south dakota to enjoy these pleasures, pretty sure there would be another war if they did!

[northzax]

57. um, Pine Ridge is dry already

and there is, in fact, a federal law banning the 'dispensing of intoxicants' on reservations. it just isn't enforced by the Feds in most places because of the soveriengty of the native nations.

[TZ]

58. here's the other thing I learned about Aboriginals

I asked:Why was it so much worse there..I am not questioning you, I have heard this before, and I trust your knowledge anyway. But what happened to the Native Americans in this country was bad..this sounds worse but for the life of me I don't understand why? Is it because its a much harsher land and therefore the resources are much more limited?


R_A's response to my question was this:

"It's called "The Stolen Generation" and for good reason - children were forcibly removed from their parents and then it was attempted to force them into assimilation with white society.

Result: Even the poor in other places had parents. In Australia, there was not even that. Whatever parents were left were broken, thus leading to the kind of social conditions we see today."

As bad as the Native American's have been treated in this country, I think its been much worse for the Aboriginals in Australia, because I believe this kind of thing on a large scale was not attempted here

[LostinVA]

47. Did you know that Aboriginals there were legally considered FAUNA about a generation ago?

These people have been treated horribly by the Australian government over the years, and there is far more to this than beer and porn. Watch "Rabbit Proof Fence."

[Eugene]

50. BBC: Aborigines threaten tourist ban

Source: BBC News

Last Updated: Tuesday, 26 June 2007, 10:47 GMT 11:47 UK

Aborigines threaten tourist ban

Aboriginal elders are threatening to ban tourists from one
of Australia's landmarks over a plan to curb child sex abuse
in Aboriginal communities.

The threat to close Uluru, or Ayers Rock, comes amid
growing alarm.

Some 50 community, church and indigenous groups are
meeting in Canberra to discuss the situation.

-snip-

Growing fears

The Aboriginal backlash is growing in ferocity against what
are increasingly being described as John Howard's shock-
and-awe proposals, says the BBC's Nick Bryant in Sydney.

-snip-

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6239788.stm

---

Also: Australia's Aborigines fear losing children - Reuters

[Karenina]

53. Hmmm...

"Pat Turner, who represents 13 central Australian community groups, said Aborigines were also worried by the government move to take control of Aboriginal townships, saying the move was a land grab which would undermine Aboriginal land rights.

"We believe that this government is using child sexual abuse as the Trojan horse to resume total control of our lands," Turner told reporters in Canberra."

[classysassy]

59. Modeled

after america's treatment of the Indians.

[suffragette]

60. Yet, nothing about going after the offenders

"The report made 97 recommendations, including boosting procedures for reporting and monitoring offenders, and addressing widespread poverty and alcoholism."

Hmm, yet I see nothing in these articles or in the new ones about the soldiers being sent in (see below) that states anything about going after the offenders or addressing the poverty issues. The article below specifically talks about "girls were prostituting themselves to miners for drugs and alcohol in remote parts of the Outback." Who are these miners and why is nothing being said about punishment for them? Why not send the soldiers after them? Aren't they committing the abuse?

In the meantime:

"A former conservative prime minister, Malcolm Fraser, said the government's actions were a "throwback to past paternalism" because there had been no consultation with Aboriginal people.

An Aboriginal activist and academic, Boni Robertson, described the emergency measures as "knee-jerk nonsense" that breached Australia's antidiscrimination laws.

Aboriginal leaders said some families are fleeing their townships, fearful the police and troops are coming to take their children away.

Such fears expose a lingering wariness of child-welfare authorities among Aborigines, many of whom are victims of now-discredited government assimilation policies that lasted until the 1970s in which generations of indigenous children were forcibly sent to live with white Australian families."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003763985_austban27.html

[Josh]

61. "Mundine supports territory crusade" -

Again, it's not all that black and white:

INDIGENOUS leader Warren Mundine has savaged critics of John Howard's motives in intervening to stamp out the sexual abuse of children in Northern Territory Aboriginal communities, saying the protection of women and children is more important than politics.

Mr Mundine, the former Labor Party national president, said the Territory communities were gripped by an epidemic of physical and sexual abuse of women and children and that people who claimed the Prime Minister was being driven by political motives missed the point: that the vulnerable needed protection.

More: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21980792-601,00.html

[ButterflyBlood]

62. Racism + authoritarinism? Sounds like fascism to me.

Fuck you Howard.

[Matilda]

63. This is Howard's pre-election pitch to the racist element in Australia.

Yes, alcohol and the spin-offs of violence and sexual abuse are a huge problem in the Northern
Territory and also in outlying districts of other states. And yes, report after report has been
presented to Howard with requests for action and adequate funding to tackle the problems. Reports
which have been ignored until polls that showed Howard losing the next election.

But Howard has chosen to go in with figurative guns blazing - six-months of alcohol prohibition,
but no support programs of counselling, detoxification or rehabilitation. Force kids to go to
school - but no allowance for more schools if needed, nor for remedial teachers. No jobs programs,
either on the tribal lands or outside to give them hope of a better future once they leave school.
Send in the police and the army - white men all, no training for black police officers who would
have a greater chance of gaining the communities' trust.

Suddenly Howard is bleating continuously about the plight of little children - this man who has
locked up little children whose parents happen to be asylum seekers behind barbed wire fences out
in the desert, and has had nothing to say about little children who have become suicidal because
of his policies. This man who wanted to allow the intelligence services to detain and question
children as young as 10 without having to inform their parents - a provision defeated by Labor
(but it's still 14, at which age many would consider them to be still children).

This is for SIX MONTHS only - the states are not going to continue to contribute their own police
officers, nor can the army stay indefinitely. This is about Howard winning the next election.
As soon as it's over, he will forget about it. Except of course, for the taking over of Aboriginal
tribal lands - that will be for five years. There's a lot of uranium under the ground in the N.T.

He won in 2001 by playing the race card, and unfortunately, I think he can do so again.