Insurgents or protesters? 18 are killed in clashes with US troops

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

Robert Fisk's latest (front page of tommorrow's Independent):

While Washington and London were still congratulating themselves on the capture of Saddam Hussein, US troops have shot dead at least 18 Iraqis in the streets of three major cities in the country.

Dramatic videotape from the city of Ramadi 75 miles west of Baghdad showed unarmed supporters of Saddam Hussein being gunned down in semi-darkness as they fled from Americans troops. Eleven of the 18 dead were killed by the Americans in Samarra to the north of Baghdad.
All the killings came during demonstrations by Sunni Muslims against the American seizure of Saddam, protests that started near Samarra on Monday evening. The first demonstrators blocked roads north of Baghdad when armed men appeared alongside civilians who believed - initially - that US forces had arrested one of Saddam's doubles rather than the ex-dictator of Iraq. But their jubilation turned to fury when the Americans opened fire in Samarra a few hours later.

As usual, the American military claimed that all 18 dead were "insurgents" and that US forces had come under fire in all three cities. But this is what they claimed in Samarra just over two weeks ago when they boasted they had shot 54 "terrorists". Journalists investigating the killings concluded then that while US forces in the city had been ambushed while taking currency notes to two banks in the city, the only victims of American gunfire that could be confirmed were nine civilians, one of them a child, another an Iranian pilgrim.

more:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/story.jsp?story=473995

[tinnypriv]

1. Yeah, I watched this on the evening news (ITN)

No fucking way were they firing over their heads. It was directly into the crowd, with automatic weapons.

[madrchsod]

2. you know

you guys in canada and overseas are really starting to piss me off.you guys get to see the truth and all i can do is read about it here.i mean it`s not fair tempting me with news that shows the truth....

[FloridaPat]

3. I haven't watched news on TV in ages. Can't stand propaganda.

I wonder what it would be like!!

[MrPrax]

4. The footage ran on both news..

maybe all three...
CBC usually does, but the right wing Global (canada.com) did as well and both framed the report with questions-not jubilation like the I saw on CBS ...
The honeymoon seems to be over for the Saddam capture in Canada...

CBC interviewed an Iraqis exile on Monday, who DIDN'T follow the script, and said that, 'sure saddam being captured is great, but then related a story that only last week his brother back in Iraq was gunned down by a "drunken American soldier"!!
Doh!!
Bad Bad Iraqis exile...

[jayfish]

6. ABC WNT Showed About A Three Second Clip...

of protesters being fired on. They did not show who was shooting and did not give the location of the protest. The clip showed about 75 Iraqis running from left to right followed by tracer fire from left to right. It was disheartening to say the least.
Jay

Jay

[nn2004]

5. Why does bush allow killing peaceful protesting freedom fighters?

Where is the outrage?

[lyonn]

7. Soldiers been there too long

Could it be our soldiers are mentally loosin it? Getting shot at, explosions on roads, etc., could get to a person after awhile. Some have been there for over a year, probably many. Next question, what's with the leaders? If this is true, can you imagine how those soldiers are going to have to deal with it for gawd knows how long. What a mess.

[jayfish]

8. It Might Get A Whole Lot Worse Before...

it gets any better. Nearly the entire force will be rotated out in the coming months.

Jay

[NickB79]

13. And what kind of troops are we sending in there?

Mainly unseasoned, unprepared troops like National Guard units? They're going to be even more unable to handle the situation than the current batch of troops. The learning curve in Iraq right now is damn steep, and a lot of troops will learn the hard way I fear.

[NickB79]

12. Quite possible

And imagine what hell we're gonna see when those same now-mentally unstable soldiers return to the United States? How many families are going to be ruined by the drinking, spousal and child abuse, or even possibly the murders that will follow?

[Judi Lynn]

9. More information on this subject

Ambushes, firefights and rioting in Iraq days after Saddam capture

SLOBODAN LEKIC, Associated Press Writer Tuesday, December 16, 2003


(12-16) 19:28 PST BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) --

Saddam Hussein loyalists rioted in Baghdad, ambushed a U.S. patrol in Samarra, stormed the office of a U.S.-backed mayor in Fallujah and battled American troops in Ramadi as cities in Iraq's `Sunni Triangle' region seethed over the ex-dictator's capture.

As soldiers fought off angry protesters and guerrilla attacks Monday night and Tuesday, the 4th Infantry Division said it had snared a leader of the insurgency and 78 other people in a raid north of Baghdad, not far from where Saddam was captured three days earlier.

A roadside bomb wounded three American soldiers in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit, and a pro-Saddam demonstration in the northern city of Mosul ended in violence, with a policeman killed and a second injured.

President Bush said Saddam deserved the "ultimate penalty" but it would be up to the people of Iraq to decide whether he should be executed. In an interview with ABC News, the president also said Iraqis are "capable of conducting the trial themselves." (snip/...)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/12/16/international2004EST0699.DTL

[karlschneider]

10. US Soldiers are trained & taught to kill people and break things.

That's just what they do. We can't blame them for doing the very things they are ordered to do. The typical GI (yes, I was in the military) has about as much appreciation for international diplomacy as GWB has for honor.

America is populated with a preponderance of morons...and that is an unfortunate fact we must accept. How to fix it?-I have not the foggiest clue. It well may be unrepairable. But the situation will be resolved, one way or the other. Civil war? Possible. (it happened once)...a coup of some variety? Could happen. Something like the French Revolution (or even one more like the one that created the USA?)

In any case, in any society, there comes a point of "pissed-offedness" that creates a historically noteworthy dynamic. I suspect it's coming.

Maybe sooner than later.

[tlcandie]

11. Here's another link to about the same story from another

perspective. A freelance journalist from Alaska there to speak about the life of the Iraqis...

http://electroniciraq.net/news/1268.shtml

I posted this story here in LBN, we must have posted about the same time...here's that link in LBN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=273353