Judge Rejects Government Motion, Allows Wiccan Lawsuit To Proceed

[rodeodance]

http://www.channel3000.com/news/10902566/detail.html?rss=c3k&psp=news

Judge Rejects Government Motion, Allows Wiccan Lawsuit To Proceed
Trial Date For June

UPDATED: 1:58 pm CST February 1, 2007

MADISON, Wis. -- A federal lawsuit filed by Wiccans against the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs will proceed despite a request by the VA that it be put on hold for perhaps as much as a year.

The lawsuit filed in November accuses the VA of coming up with excuses for more than nine years to deny the Wiccan symbol on grave markers of veterans who were members of that religion.

The VA argued in a motion filed Jan. 19 with the U.S. District Court in Madison that the lawsuit should be put on hold. The VA said the delay was needed given that the department was working on new rules on grave markers.

The Wiccans' attorney objected, arguing that nothing commits the VA to finalize its rules or take up the Wiccan request at all.
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[TechBear_Seattle]

1. We are a Christian nation, after all

:grr: If you want to be buried in a national cemetary, it will be as a Christian (or one of the heathen religions we have no choice but to accept.) Otherwise, your corpse can rot in Hell for eternity as far as the Veterans' Administration is concerned. And what is with these pagans trying to force their religion down America's collective throat?

:sarcasm:

[jody]

5. VA has approved many Emblems of Belief shown at the link below.

Available Emblems of Belief for Placement on Government Headstones and Markers

Has the Wiccan group adopted a single emblem?

[Hekate]

7. Have the Christians adopted a single emblem? I think that's your answer.

The US government and the VA have no right whatsoever to exclude the Wiccans from having their own symbol or symbols on the gravestones of dead veterans. The fact that the VA jerked these folks around for almost a decade speaks to ignorance, discrimination, and bias. Other non-Christian groups have been fast-tracked and had their symbols approved fairly rapidly.

Hekate

[Hekate]

8. I counted 16 different kinds of cross, btw. nt

[jody]

9. Christians have different emblems but I believe Wiccans so far have not agreed on a single emblem or

each group is to small to be recognized.

I don't know what VA guidelines are like.

[Hekate]

10. There's the Pentacle/Pentagram, the Triple Moon, the Triple Spiral, the Goddess, the God...

And with at least 16 variations on the Christian Cross to choose from, why should this multiplicity of symbols present a problem?

Size does not matter. There only 217,000 Unitarian Universalists in the US but they are allowed their Flaming Chalice. There are more Wiccans/NeoPagans than that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neopaganism#Number_of_adherents
> In the United States, the ARIS 2001 study based on a poll conducted
> by The Graduate Center at The City University of New York found that
> an estimated 140,000 people self-identified as pagans; 134,000
> self-identified as Wiccans; and 33,000 self-identified as Druids.
> This would bring the total of groups largely accepted under the
> modern popular western definition of Neopagan to 307,000. ....
>
> The Covenant of the Goddess conducted a poll of U.S. and Canadian
> Neopagans in 1999 that estimated the population in those countries
> at 768,400. This would seem to support the view that there are at
> least one million adherents, worldwide.

Hekate

[jody]

11. The problem is for the different Wiccan groups to resolve, not VA. Size does

matter because there are religious groups with only a few followers.

Note that VA pays for such monuments and some standardization seems reasonable.

I support the use of all emblems as long as they are just a simple inscription cut into the stone marker.

[Hekate]

12. Have you looked at the 16 varieties of Christian crosses the VA finds acceptable?

Because I'm just not understanding how you think the multiple symbols of other religious groups should present a problem for the VA.

Do you think the VA should be telling the Christians that only ONE of those crosses is acceptable for the sake of uniformity? Please go look at them.

Aren't the Presbyterians, Russian Orthodox, Lutherans, and Episcopalians all one religion? Why are their crosses different from one another? United Methodist Church, Aaronic Church, Serbian Orthodox, and Greek -- all different. Community of Christ doesn't even use a cross -- what's wrong with them? Christian Reformed Church and United Moravian Church, Presbyterian Church, Christian Church, and Christian & Missionary Alliance -- all different.

Why can the VA not accept the fact that there are different "churches" among the NeoPagans just as there are among the Christians? That's not much of a stretch of the imagination.

Unless the VA in its vast ignorance thinks NeoPagans are Satanists. Which, let me tell you they are not, because Satan is a Christian construct, not a Pagan belief.

Anyhow, you and I can agree to disagree, but the VA's behavior is a lawsuit waiting to happen, and it's a shame that the grieving families of dead patriots have to battle for the right to display a symbol that would give them comfort.

Hekate

[jody]

13. I'm very familiar with current VA approved markers. IMO the problem is Wiccan groups have not

agreed on a marker(s).

Have a good day. :bye:

[booley]

2. What a crock of %&#$!

The VA said the delay was needed given that the department was working on new rules on grave markers.

I have been following this case for YEARS. They just keep making excuses. I still dont;' understand why this is even an issue.

If a guy dies for his country, he has earned the right for whatever damn marker he wanted on his head stone.

[brooklynite]

3. Is this STILL floating around?

I though VA caved on this issue months ago.

[MountainLaurel]

4. They caved on one specific case

But this may relate to adding the pentacle permanently.

[Djinnjinn]

6. Nevada approved the pentacle for the state memorial

but the VA is still stringing Wiccans along.

At least, they aren't stringing 'em up...

That's progress, right?

[Vidar]

14. Obstruction & denial of benefits often seens to be the VA's real function.