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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-18-07 09:48 PM
Original message
Guantánamo captive to family: Send help
Posted on Thu, Jan. 18, 2007

By MICHAEL MELIA
Associated Press

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - In a letter from Guantánamo Bay, a 26-year-old terror suspect pleaded with his family to secure him legal help after being transferred to the U.S. military prison last year from secret CIA custody with 13 other "high-value" detainees.

Majid Khan, a Pakistan native who graduated from a Maryland high school said he lives in solitary confinement at the detention center, but speaks with other detainees through the walls of his cell ...

One letter, dated Oct. 20, begins: ''In this letter I am going to mention some of the things I have been through.'' Most of the rest of that page is blacked out ...

The Bush administration has not allowed communication between Khan and defense attorneys, arguing that he could reveal information about interrogation tactics used in secret CIA prisons that would allow terrorists to adapt their training ...

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/16492931.htm
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Impeach Gonzales and move up the chain...
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. America is a war crime nation and pretending otherwise
through refusal to address the issue directly and in stark honest terms and to hold the guilty accountable makes America's crimes that much worse.



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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. The US renders ONE MONTH OLD BABIES TOO????
omg, the shame....

<snip>

Majid Khan was detained while he was staying with a brother in Pakistan in March 2003, according to his family and court filings by his attorneys. They said men who were not in uniform burst into the brother's apartment in Karachi late one night and put hoods over the faces of those inside: Majid, his brother Mohammad and his brother's wife. The couple's one-month-old son was also taken into custody.

Although the others were released without charges over the course of three months, Majid Khan's whereabouts were not officially disclosed until September, when President Bush named him as one of the 14 high-value detainees.

:grr:
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. How can America allow this to happen!!!!
I'm sorry, but I am so fearful when I read this perverse, fascist bullshit!!

I'm so upset! We storm into people's homes and put black hoods over peoples' faces.
And we take babies!

We are fascist pigs!!

There is no evidence that this person did anything wrong, and we deny him access to
an attorney and deny all rights. Then, we censor his letters, under the guise of
"national security". If these people have committed crimes--then fine--give them
access to legal counsel, try them and punish them. It's sick that we deny these
people any sort of legal process to get at the truth. We've all ready released
many who were innocent--and they languished in this hell for years!!

We are fascist scum!!

I can't believe that we are doing this! I can't believe that this is being done in
my name with my money!!

I am so sickened. This is so evil. It's so sick.

I can't even believe that we have a prison in Guantanamo.

Shut it down!!!!! NOW!!! :cry:

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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. How do you know there is no evidence he did anything wrong?
EOM
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architect359 Donating Member (544 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well, the presumption is that a person is innocent until proven guilty.
But with all this secrecy shinanigans, we'll never know if there was evidence or not, or if due process was ever served. I suspect not.
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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Is he an American citizen?
If not he is not granted this presumption, I don't think. Especially, if the US considers him an enemy combatant. To some degree I understand the secrecy surrounding these cases. The secrecy is not what is so concerning, it is the length of time it takes to get to trial.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The phrase is "all men are created equal" not "all American citizens" n/t
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Ding, Ding, Ding. Funny how easy that seems to be to forget. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Nationalism has been warping our thinking for years now.
The Republicans love it because it shuts down actual cognition.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. EVERYONE is PRESUMED INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY.

THIS PRESUMPTION PREDATES AMERICA.

So it doesn't matter whether he is an American citizen or not.

(To myself: Holy fuck, am I acutally reading this?)
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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. What do you mean it predates America . . .
That was not the case in England, and still does not exist in France where you have to prove innocence.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. The presumption of innocence is not restricted to American citizens
It is the standard in American courts. Of course, this administration, and their flunkies in the judiciary, have subverted this principle by allowing these kangaroo tribunals under the most mystified of conditions to serve as a putative basis for these indefinite detentions.

Whether we know that there is no evidence, however, is irrelevant. The simple case is that the government refuses to show any evidence, and even prevents communication with the defense. This is as good as arbitrary rule by a despot, the very sort that our country was founded to oppose. No charges. No public statement of evidence. No trial. No jury. No nothing. Just indefinite detention, on secret accusations, for as long as some arbitrary person deems fit.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Read:
The principle that there is a presumption of innocence in favor of the accused is the undoubted law, axiomatic and elementary, and its enforcement lies at the foundation of the administration of our criminal law. <156 U.S. 432, 454> It is stated as unquestioned in the textbooks, and has been referred to as a matter of course in the decisions of this court and in the courts of the several states. See 1 Tayl. Ev. c. 5, 126, 127; Wills, Circ. Ev. c. 5, 91; Best. Pres. pt. 2, c. 1, 63, 64; Id. c. 3, 31-58; Greenl. Ev. pt. 5, 29, etc.; 11 Cr. Law Mag. 3; Whart. Ev. 1244; 2 Phil. Ev. ( Cowen & Hill's Notes) p. 289; Lilienthal's Tobacco v. U. S., 97 U.S. 237; Hopt v. Utah, 120 U.S. 430 , 7 Sup. Ct. 614; Com. v. Webster, 5 Cush. 320; State v. Bartlett, 43 N. H. 224; Alexander v. People, 96 Ill. 96; People v. Fairchild, 48 Mich. 31, 11 N. W. 773; People v. Millard, 53 Mich. 63, 18 N. W. 562; Com. v. Whittaker, 131 Mass. 224; Blake v. State, 3 Tex. App. 581; Wharton v. State, 73 Ala. 366; State v. Tibbetts, 35 Me. 81; Moorer v. State, 44 Ala. 15.

Greenleaf traces this presumption to Deuteronomy, and quotes Mascardius Do Probationibus to show that it was substantially embodied in the laws of Sparta and Athens. On Evidence, pt. 5, 29, note. Whether Greenleaf is correct or not in this view, there can be no question that the Roman law was pervaded with the results of this maxim of criminal administration, as the following extracts show:

'Let all accusers understand that they are not to prefer charges unless they can be proven by proper witnesses or by conclusive documents, or by circumstantial evidence which amounts to indubitable proof and is clearer than day.' Code, L. 4, tit. 20, 1, l. 25.

'The noble (divus) Trajan wrote to Julius Frontonus that no man should be condemned on a criminal charge in his absence, because it was better to let the crime of a guilty person go unpunished than to condemn the innocent.' Dig. L. 48, tit. 19, l. 5.

'In all case of doubt the most merciful construction of facts should be preferred.' Dig. L. 50, tit. 17, l. 56.

'In criminal cases the milder construction shall always be preserved.' Dig. L. 50, tit. 17, 1, 155, 2.

'In cases of doubt it is no less just than it is safe to adopt the milder construction.' Dig. L. 50, tit. 17, l. 192, 1. <156 U.S. 432, 455> Ammianus Marcellinus relates an anecdote of the Emperor Julian which illustrates the enforcement of this principle in the Roman law. Numerius, the governor of Narbonensis, was on trial before the emperor, and, contrary to the usage in criminal cases, the trial was public. Numerius contented himself with denying his guilt, and there was not sufficient proof against him. His adversary, Delphidius, 'a passionate man,' seeing that the failure of the accusation was inevitable, could not restrain himself, and exclaimed, 'Oh, illustrious Caesar! if it is sufficient to deny, what hereafter will become of the guilty?' to which Julian replied, 'If it suffices to accuse, what will become of the innocent?' Rerum Gestarum, lib. 18, c. 1. The rule thus found in the Roman law was, along with many other fundamental and human maxims of that system, preserved for mankind by the canon law. Decretum Gratiani de Presumptionibus, L. 2, T. 23, c. 14, A. D. 1198; Corpus Juris Canonici Hispani et Indici, R. P. Murillo Velarde, Tom. 1, L. 2, n. 140. Exactly when this presumption was, in precise words, stated to be a part of the common law, is involved in doubt. The writer of an able article in the North American Review (January, 1851), tracing the genesis of the principle, says that no express mention of the presumption of innocence can be found in the books of the common law earlier than the date of McNally's Evidence (1802). Whether this statement is correct is a matter of no moment, for there can be no doubt that, if the principle had not found formal expression in the common-law writers at an earlier date, yet the practice which flowed from it has existed in the common law from the earliest time.

Fortescue says: 'Who, then, in England, can be put to death unjustly for any crime? since he is allowed so many pleas and privileges in favor of life. None but his neighbors, men of honest and good repute, against whom he can have no probable cause of exception, can find the person accused guilty. Indeed, one would much rather that twenty guilty persons should escape punishment of death than that one innocent person should be condemned and suffer capitally.' De Laudibus Legum Angliae (Amos' translation, Cambridge, 1825). <156 U.S. 432, 456> Lord Hale (1678) says: 'In some cases presumptive evidence goes far to prove a person guilty, though there be no express proof of the fact to be committed by him; but then it must be very warily pressed, for it is better five guilty persons should escape unpunished than one innocent person should die.' 2 Hale, P. C. 290. He further observes: 'And thus the reasons stand on both sides; and, though these seem to be stronger than the former, yet in a case of this moment it is safest to hold that in practice, which hath least doubt and danger, – 'Quod dubitas, ne feceris." 1 Hale, P. C. 24.

Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that 'the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.' 2 Bl. Comm. c. 27, marg. p. 358, ad finem.


Coffin v. U.S., 162 U.S. 664 (1896).

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Thank you!
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. The fact that this man has NO ACCESS...
Edited on Fri Jan-19-07 11:37 AM by TwoSparkles
...to legal representation and that he is being held indefinitely without
a trial---means that our government has not provided any evidence that would
warrant locking someone up for years and years. There is no process to
determine guilt or innocence. There is only incarceration.

Don't you get it---people get rounded up. Then they sit in a foreign
prison run by Americans--and their innocence or guilt is not determined.
They are just HELD!

There are numerous reports that we have captured and detained---for years--
people who never did anything wrong.

If there is no trial, no lawyer, no defense or no discussion--just imprisonment--
how could anyone EVER assess guilt???

The problem is---there is no legitimate process for determining guilt or innocence!

As far as I'm concerned, that's an intellectually flawed, broken process--and I'm
not going to assume guilt. Why would anyone--when we've admitted that we've freed
innocent people?

This is outrageous and completely unAmerican.

Let someone snatch you from your home, put a hood over your face, throw you in a jail
cell and hold you for years without access to an attorney or any way of defending yourself.
I would assume that you did nothing wrong until someone showed me that you did.

Innocent until proven guilty----it's how America used to work until we lost our soul to
these sick bastards.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. You have that EXACTLY BACWARDS: You have to PRODUCE EVIDENCE of a wrong.

REMEMBER THE PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE.

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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. Alright...I have fucking had enough of this
"The Bush administration has not allowed communication between Khan and defense attorneys, arguing that he could reveal information about interrogation tactics used in secret CIA prisons that would allow terrorists to adapt their training ..."

This excuse could be used to exclude any of the very basic principles of jurisprudence, period. This is ridiculous. They need to charge these people in US courts, under recognizable US statutes, or let them go. It is that simple. If they are terrorists, so fucking be it. We let mafioso go all the time when we couldn't make a charge stick. We let all sorts of bad folks go when we cannot make a charge stick. THAT'S the PRICE OF A FREE SOCIETY.

Freedom isn't FREE. That's the real meaning of the term. The cost of freedom is letting the terrorist walk sometimes when you don't have sufficient evidence to charge and convict him in a FREE and OPEN way. That's the real price of freedom, you fucking Republican douchebags.
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G Hawes Donating Member (440 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-20-07 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Agreed.
It's well past the point of "put up or shut up". Either produce sufficient evidence to hold the man in custody or admit that we can't and send him home.

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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. Preemptive justice. Can't let him communicate with family or defense
because then he could tell them all the illegal, immoral and un-America shit we've done to him, which would just let other future "high-value detainees" train to resist. I'm sorry. These people have gone round the bend. Whatever happened to "Live free or die?" If we can't find a way to defend democracy without destroying it, then I guess we lose.

Majid Khan, a Pakistan native who graduated from a Maryland high school...
Wonder if he was the Muslim critic of the WOT who was class valedictorian? That sounds like an arrest-able offense.


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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-19-07 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. We must have passed the former USSR by now
on our way to being history's Bluebeard nation. This is so unbelievably disgusting and corrupt. Please let this nightmare end soon.
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