Hindus opposing EU swastika ban

[Left Coast Lynn]

Hindus in Europe have joined forces against a German proposal to ban the display of the swastika across the European Union, a Hindu leader said.
Ramesh Kallidai of the Hindu Forum of Britain said the swastika had been a symbol of peace for thousands of years before the Nazis adopted it.

He said a ban on the symbol would discriminate against Hindus.

Germany, holder of the EU presidency, wants to make Holocaust denial and the display of Nazi symbols a crime.

Mr Kallidai said his organisation was writing to European lawmakers to highlight the issue.

Hindu groups in Holland, Belgium and Italy were also involved in the campaign, he said.

"The swastika has been around for 5,000 years as a symbol of peace," he said. "This is exactly the opposite of how it was used by Hitler."

He said that while the Nazi implications of the symbol should be condemned, people should respect the Hindu use of the swastika.

"Just because Hitler misused the symbol, abused it and used it to propagate a reign of terror and racism and discrimination, it does not mean that its peaceful use should be banned." ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6269627.stm

[Captain Hilts]

1. I thought the Hindu version was situated in the mirror position of the Nazi version. nt

[slj0101]

A lot of the time, it is.

But it has shown up on artifacts as both left-facing and right-facing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
I looked it up after seeing this post. Apparently it's still used quite widely in Asia, and has a much more positive meaning behind it.

[Ian David]

4. I was going to say, yeah... the Hindu swastika looks different from the German one.

This is like banning the display of the Christian crucifix, because Satanists use an upside-down cross.


Hindu Swastika


Hindu Swastika


Nazi Swastika

See also:

Whose swastika is it anyway?
http://www.hinducounciluk.org/swastika.asp

[Irreverend IX]

17. Well, as you can see...

The traditional swastika is almost always sitting on its side, while the standard Nazi swastika is rotated to a diamond-like shape. But the official symbol aside, the Nazis weren't much more consistent in their use of the swastika than the Hindus were. Their uniforms and emblems contain rotated and unrotated swastikas, some with clockwise arms and others with counterclockwise arms. But it's still very easy to tell whether the symbol is being used to represent Hinduism and Buddhism or Nazism.

[OregonBlue]

8. Yes, it's usually reversed but not always. It's a common symbol in

SE Asia in art and weaving.

[architect359]

9. Well yeah, but the overall form of it is enough to evoke the Nazi version.

It just goes to show that this is either a lack of research on the law maker's part or an over reaction that lumps everything irregardless to context. The buddhist use this symbol. Heck, if you look at some Greek scroll work, you'll see this form interweaving itself in a continuous band.

[Kagemusha]

12. It's unlikely to the extreme the lawmaker is ignorant of this argument

and likely to the extreme he/ she just doesn't care.

[XemaSab]

15. Go into the lobby of the Supreme Court and look up

There's an interlocking swastika pattern on the ceiling. :P

[goodhue]

11. not always

The various ways in which the Swatika is depicted.

The word Swastika is normally believed to be an amalgam of the words Su and Asati. Su means 'good' and Asati meant 'to exist'.

As per Sanskrit grammer the words Su and Asati when amalgamated into one word become Swasti (as in the case of Su and Aaatam becoming Swagatam meaning welcome). If this derivation of the word Swastika is true, then the literal meaning of the term Swastika would be 'let good-prevail'.

There exist many types of signs which stand for the Swastika. Even the standard version has two forms the one facing the right also called the symbol of- the right hand path and the one facing the left called the symbol of the lefthand path. These two Swastikas are also considered to represent the male and female. There is also a Swastika which is an amalgam of these two types.

http://www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birodkar/hindu_history/omkar.html

[trogdor]

21. It is.

So is the Buddhist version. They were all over Korea when I was there in '92.

[noahmijo]

2. Hate to say it but they got a legit beef here

Buddhist and Pagans have used the symbol too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika#Buddhism
Swastika - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


How about instead a law that states when some little man with a bad haircut and mustache storms a Munich Beer Hall and babbles about revenge against Wall Street, the commies, and the french everyone is just required to kick his ass?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I doubt if the Hindu version of the symbol

is going to be black in a white circle on a red flag. That could legitimately be called a Nazi symbol. Let the Hindus show the swastika the way they wish, which I am certain is not like the Nazi flag or Nazi armband.

[Left Coast Lynn]

5. I think you have it

The symbol can't be outlawed. It has religious meaning to Hindus. I would think their displays would be different.

[silverweb]

16. Exactly!

Banning this lovely emblem



because it has a shape resemblance to this emblem



is as ridiculous as trying to ban the cross (as another poster mentioned) or pentacle because devil worshippers use both symbols upside down.

It's this all-or-nothing thinking that has resulted in some of the idiocy with other zero-tolerance rules we've seen enforced in schools against plastic cutlery (aka "weapons") and children's hugs (aka "sexual harrassment") --

and demands for shoeless airline check-in because of one idiot's actions a couple of years ago!

[JCMach1]

20. Sorry, but I have some on a Ganesh batik that are down-right

NAZI-looking...

[Captain Hilts]

6. I can understand Europeans' discomfiture with the symbol. nt

[Amused Musings]

7. Ah yes,

Once again, the law of unintended consequences rears its head. A good reason why speech should be as free as possible, even if it means protecting hateful symbols

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

10. agree.. it's amazing that modern civilization hasn't figured that out yet

[3waygeek]

13. Native Americans also used the swastika...

That's a young Jacqueline Bouvier in the photo, BTW.

[sakabatou]

14. I believe that the TV show Naruto used the "swatstika"

for a curse mark on one of the characters.

[Tanuki]

18. It's hard (for me) not to have a negative emotional reaction

when I see a swastika, regardless of the context, but I also recognize that other cultures do not have the same baggage and have positive, pre-existing associations for this symbol. Here is an interesting article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_use_of_the_Swastika_in_the_early_20th_century

[JCMach1]

19. There is a swastika on my Ganesh batik... would the EU seize that

if I brought it with me through Europe?

The Hindus are correct to try to stop this idiocy...

What if I made a Swastika-shaped collage of holocaust victims? Would that be banned?

Come on, this is a free-speech issue...