Less number of US students coming to India for studies

[OhioChick]

Chalsa (WB), Dec 18: Less number of American students were coming to India for studies because of the "inordinate delay" in getting Indian visas, US embassy public affairs minister counsellor Larry Schwartz claimed here today.

"For some reason or the other, may be bureaucratic process, American students are not getting Indian visas while Indian students are getting US visas and all help to study in America," Schwartz said, addressing a three-day conference for Fulbright scholars in South Asia. "This year 30 American students could not avail Indian visas as they were issued very late," he said.

Another reason for less students coming here was the "interference" by Indian authorities in the choice of subjects of US students, Schwartz said.

He said delays in issuing Indian visas was "unfortunate", especially when indo-us ties were getting stronger. The Fulbright, would shortly open a centre at R.E.C at Silchar in Assam soon to cover more areas in the north-eastern region to help more students get opportunities to study in America, he added.

http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=342876&sid=NAT&ssid=

Why the "interference" by Indian authorities?

[Drum]

1. Strange...

I thought I saw a story posted here at DU last week, about the India nuclear deal and the US State Dept's plans to open/enlarge visa centers for Indian people wishing to come and visit/work/live in the US.

I will check into the link you've posted above, OhioChick. Thank you.

In my tinoiliest moments, I see some kind of encouraged ebb-and-flow between education, outsourcing, and import/export of expertise and jobs in the US and India. Can't say what I feel about it until I see more puzzle-pieces (surely they will be forthcoming) but I do feel there's the sketchy outline of some bigger impact here...I just can't say what.

:shrug:

[OhioChick]

2. These Articles?

American visas to Indians set to zoom

December 17, 2006

With Indo-US bonhomie at its best, the US is all set to grant entry visas to a record number of Indians in the months to come.

In September and October this year, the first two months of the US fiscal, the US has issued 78 per cent more visas to Indians than in the same two months of last year. In fact, the US consular operations have had to requisition staff from all over the world to cope with the additional work.

Indians have bagged no less than 30 per cent of the visas granted by the US worldwide for skilled temporary workers. Last fiscal, over 127,000 such visas were issued to Indians. And at over 80,000, India has the largest number of foreign students in the US. In fiscal 2006, 24,622 Indian students got a US visa -- a 32 per cent increase over the previous year.

The US issued 358,734 temporary visas in fiscal 2006, up 14 per cent from 313,800 in the previous year. This was in addition over 30,000 immigrant visas. India is now second only to Mexico among all countries for visa demand.
http://www.business-standard.com/common/storypage_c.php?leftnm=10&bKeyFlag=BO&autono=268269&chkFlg=



Hyderabad, Oct 18: The US will set up a consulate here in early 2008 as part of measures to speed up the processing of visa applications, a top American official said on Wednesday.

As of last week, about 40,000 visa applications were pending with US missions across the country and efforts are on to clear them as quickly as possible, US Consul General Peter G Kaestner told reporters here today.

In line with the US Government's plans to expand operations to meet the spiralling demand for visas in India, which accounted for 50 per cent of H1B visas issued last year, a consulate will be set up in Hyderabad in early 2008, he said.

The consulate will process 1.25 lakh to 1.40 lakh visa applications a year, said Kaestner, who was here to inspect facilities at Paigah palace that will temporarily house the consulate.
http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=330162&sid=REG

[Drum]

3. Exactly! Thanks very much.

Interesting, isn't it? Another meticulously-negotiated treaty-set by this ass-clown White House crew.

x(

[OhioChick]

9. It sure is interesting.......

The US seems to be opening the floodgates for visas coming here, but yet the Indian authorities seem to be denying visas for those choosing India. Makes one wonder...

[soothsayer]

4. fewer, not less (grammar police!)

[oblivious]

5. I think it should be 'Fewer US students..." or "Lower number of US students..."

or anything but 'Less number'

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

8. Call the grammer police on the Indian

that wrote the article! :)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lindisfarne]

11. "Less Students Learning Cursive Handwriting": headline from Austin TX news website.

Seems to me this usage is correct for at least one American dialect.
http://www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=5528747

Seems at least one Australian dialect allows this usage too:
"There are less students studying Asian studies." http://rspas.anu.edu.au/rmap/newmandala/2006/11/29/same-old-storyasian-studies-on-the-decline/
From another Australian website (about law school enrollment): "Consequently, it should be implemented at levels two and three where less students are usually enrolled." http://www.murdoch.edu.au/elaw/issues/v10n2/burton102_text.html

The Southhampton University (in England) Student Union website contains this usage as well:
"The Union is attractive to potential students if it was to lose its licence then less students would come here, Southampton university’s reputation would decline socially and thus less students would come here."
http://about.susu.org/article.php?title=Licence+Letdown

From a Scottish university website:
"That less students from other parts of the UK have applied to study medicine in Scotland since the introduction of top-up fees elsewhere."
http://www.strathstudents.com/display/strathclydemembership/STRATHCLYDE+STUDENTS+SAY+NO+TO+TOP-UP+FEES+(AGAIN)

From the Vermont Dept. of Health:
"Less students eat enough fruits and vegetables."
"Less students take PE every day."

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:CQ0r2YbdhQcJ:healthvermont.gov/pubs/yrbs2005/YRBS2005.ppt+%22less+students%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=59

From an article written by Melissa Kelly (Kelly holds a B.A. in History and an M.Ed in Instruction and Curriculum from the University of Florida.)
"A teacher sees less students during the day, thereby giving them the ability to spend more time with each individual. "
http://712educators.about.com/cs/blockschedule/l/aa010600.htm

This usage of "less" is quite widespread. Hard to see how all these people could have "incorrect" knowledge of their native dialect.

[Igel]

12. You're spinning your wheels.

The merger of 'less' and 'fewer' is widespread, and becoming more so. It's lacking in my dialect, which is rather conservative in some respects (although it merged 'who' and 'that' in some relative clauses, partially participated in the Northern Cities vowel shift and standardly had 'went' as the past part. of 'go').

But 'less number' is no more grammatical as a quantifier in most dialects of English than 'fewer number'--something that you must think is grammatical. "A fewer number of students" ...?

"Fewer number of students" ... Nah. You didn't get your paradigm right, and wound up putting apples and oranges in the same basket, labelled 'citrus'. An editor probably either made a mistake or failed to correct a mistake; possibly the writer calqued the expression based on a pattern in his native language, or the writer or editor simply goofed.

Not every mistake in a US newspaper qualifies for elevation to the lofty status of "idiolectically correct". I just read a paper today that had sections that were borderline incoherent because of careless editing and sloppy revising.

(On edit: To put in the 'of' where it belonged.)

[lindisfarne]

14. "Less number of students":"less" modifies a count noun."Less students": "less" modifies a count noun

Careless editing and sloppy revising has nothing to do with the "grammaticality" of the individual sentences. Individual sentences can be fully grammatical (Colorless green ideas sleep furiously) yet each sentence may be meaningless. Alternatively, each sentence on its own may have some meaning, yet when strung together, the meaning intended by the writer is unclear (or perhaps, the writer her/himself was unclear of the meaning intended).

There's a difference between a typographical error (which does not reflect what the writer normally says) and a grammatical/lexical/phonological/etc. difference between two dialects (in which case, both usages ARE "correct" or "grammatical").

I find your "evidence" humorous: the only way one can ascentain whether the usage was "grammatical" in the writer's dialect is to do a survey of the usage in speakers of that dialect.

"He be working all the time" is quite grammatical in some dialects of American English, spoken by millions of Americans. But you're not going to find this, or comparable constructions, in a New York Times headline. That doesn't make this usage INCORRECT - it simply means that the NY Times does not use this dialect in its headlines. See http://www.une.edu.au/langnet/aave.htm#grammar-hce
"Events that occur habitually or repeatedly are often marked by be in AAVE as in She be working all the time."

"The orchestra is playing" vs. "The orchestra are playing". Which is correct? It depends on your dialect.

Such elitism amongst Democrats is quite disturbing. No dialect of any language is superior to another.

[Nihil]

17. Give it a break

> "The orchestra is playing" vs. "The orchestra are playing".
> Which is correct? It depends on your dialect.

No. The first one is correct. The second version may be common but it
is still wrong. How many people voted for Bush in 2004?

> "He be working all the time" is quite grammatical in some dialects of
> American English, spoken by millions of Americans.

It is still INCORRECT in the English language. This applies whether it
is being used by one American or one million Americans.

Now whether or not it is appropriate - especially on an international
discussion forum - to point these things out ... that is a different
issue. I found the headline to be glaringly wrong but, fortunately,
the article itself was OK. Never mind. These things happen.

Normally I wouldn't have bothered with this point but I found it
irritating that people attempting to be reasonable were accused of
"elitism" and somehow questionable Democrats. If anything, the opposite
is true: Democrats should always be in search of greater accuracy,
truth and honesty - the Republicans are the "fuck it, it's close enough"
party.

[lindisfarne]

20. The staff is present vs. The staff are present. Which do you consider "correct"? (orchestra is/are

playing?) You'll find many British disagree with your statement that "The orchestra are playing" is incorrect. Most Americans will say "The staff are present" - why is "The staff are present" any more "correct" than "The orchestra are playing"? It all depends on whether you view (grammatically and/or semantically) "orchestra" as a group of individuals (in which case, you would probably say "The orchestra are playing"), in the same way that most Americans view "staff" (in which case, you would probably say "The staff are present"), or whether you view "orchestra" as a single entity (in which case, you would probably say "The orchestra is playing").

Both are grammatical within the respective dialects, and within some dialects, both can simultaneously be grammatical.

As for your statement regarding my statement:
"He be working all the time" is quite grammatical in some dialects of American English, spoken by millions of Americans", in reply to which you said "It is still INCORRECT in the English language. This applies whether it is being used by one American or one million Americans."

You view it to be incorrect because you don't speak that dialect; that dialect never acquired political or social power. If it had, you'd be arguing here that it was correct. There is nothing but elitism and lack of knowledge about the way languages work and develop, behind your emphatic view.

Different dialects of languages have different lexical usage, and different phonological and grammatical rules. The rules of one dialect are no more superior than those of another dialect.

Had you gone to the link I provided, you would have learned that the dialect which has "He be working all the time" uses this construct to express a specific meaning in a very efficient way; you'd have to add additional words to your sentence to express that very same meaning!

Do you say "This item is 'different from' that item" or do you say "This item is 'different to' that item". Which preposition you choose depends on your dialect, but one choice is NOT more correct than another.

There are some who still hold that "whom" must be used in all oblique cases (grammatical term), but even these people are disappearing (dying?) gradually. Are you one of them? "whom" is one case that shows that all the prescriptive declarations in the world won't stop a dialect from changing its grammatical rules!

[brentspeak]

19. Can we get someone here to ban the "elitism amongst Democrats" disruptor?

[The Anti-Neo Con]

6. That's a bummer for US students I guess.

All our jobs are going there and to China & Vietnam.

[Igel]

13. I wonder who the students are that study in India.

American kids of Indian immigrants? Kids born in India but raised here?

Perhaps they figure they can go back and pick up a cheaper engineering degree than here; they need to educate their own citizens first.

Now if they wanted to go and study Telugu, I guess they'd easily be admitted.

[The Anti-Neo Con]

15. I'm sure degrees at Indian Universities are much cheaper.

Anyone know how much cheaper? I would guess maybe 1/8th the cost of a public American University.

[DBoon]

16. Indian Med School?

For intelligent, hard working US students that don't quite have the perfect credentials required for US med schools?

[treestar]

18. Somehow sounds wrong; the opposite is actually true

US students visas have been made more difficult to get and have been enforced more strictly, because Hani Hanjour had one. Students who don't show up for class go straight into immigration proceedings, students whose requests for extension/change of status are denied are put immediately into removal proceedings. They can be deported even if they are married to someone in the US and their petition is delayed due to bureaucratic delay.

The US was the main place for a university education until after 911; now other countries are getting that business. People don't want to put up with the hassle.

As for the number of American students wanting to study in India; that would be infintesimal - and a third world county would take them and their money, no problem.