EU report: Muslims face 'Islamophobia'

[Scurrilous]

Study compiled by European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia says Muslims across Europe confronting rise in violent attacks to discrimination in job, housing markets; report notes Muslims need to do more to counter negative perceptions driven by terrorism

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3341620,00.html

<snip>

"Muslims across Europe are confronting a rise in "Islamophobia" ranging from violent attacks to discrimination in job and housing markets, a wide-ranging European Union report indicated Monday.

The study, compiled by the European Monitoring Center on Racism and Xenophobia, urged European authorities to strengthen policies on integration. But it also noted that Muslims need to do more to counter negative perceptions driven by terrorism and upheavals such as the backlash to cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

The 117-page survey details the many divides between the EU mainstream and the estimated 13 million Muslims — now at least 3.5 percent of the 25-nation bloc's population — and seeks to offer a street-level view of the complexities blocking efforts to bridge the differences."

<snip>

"The report cited hundreds of reported cases of violence or threats against Muslims in the EU since 2004, including vandalism against mosques and Islamic centers, abuse against women wearing Islamic headscarves and attacks, such as a Somali family in Denmark assaulted by a gang carrying baseball bats emblazoned with swastikas and racist slogans.

The report, however, noted that "data on religiously aggravated incidents is collected on a limited scale." It noted that only Britain publishes a hate-crime list that specifically identifies acts against Muslims."

[LynnTheDem]

1. Muslims; the new Jews.

Go to any rightwingnut site & read how all Muslims are "vermin" and should be killed.

That this would make Hitler look like a choirboy never even occurs to these hate-filled idiots.

[genie_weenie]

4. Muslims the new Jews...

Is a laughable comparrison. But of course there are so many similarities. Like number of members, number of States controlled...

Articles such as this are akin to the claims that the S-P's are attacking and seeking to destroy Christianity in America...

[cali]

5. Freeperville

has page after page of the most vile anti-Muslim crap imaginable to attest to the ugly bigotry of the right wing as concerns Muslims. However, to state that the rantings on a right wing blog would make Hitler, whose fucking Nazi hate machinery brutally murdered 6 million Jews and 5 million of the Roma, gays, the disabled, socialists and others, is simply an astounding statement.

[LynnTheDem]

16. Sorry I didn't makae myself clear; IF rwnuts had their way & all Muslims were killed

THAT would make Hitler look like a choirboy.

[superconnected]

28. The Jews, even with their terrible treatment of Palestine

haven't done what some of the extreme muslims and muslim governments have to people, that is causing this rise in muslim hatred.

As a people, my personal experience is they have been peaceful.

It's the insane leaders of some primarily islamic countries that are giving these people a bad name.

And yeah, I know the USA is a primarily christian country and is also getting a bad name from it's insane leader. It makes the US people look bad all over Europe too.

At least we aren't hanging 16yo girls for talking back, and 14-16 yo boys for being gay, yet.

[geek tragedy]

2. Did we need a study to tell us this?

Crikey.

[The Stranger]

3. First they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out . . .

[cali]

6. Odd that you mention that Britain

is the only country that publishes a hate crime list that specifically identifies acts against Muslims. Anti-Muslim bigotry is an ugly thing, no different than anti-semitism or any other form of racism. Having said that, I read this just the yesterday. There is a chart in the article detailing both anti-Muslim and anti-semitic incidents.


Jews far more likely to be victims of faith hatred than Muslims
By Tom Harper and Ben Leapman, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:28am GMT 17/12/2006

Jewish people are four times more likely to be attacked because of their religion than Muslims, according to figures compiled by the police.

One in 400 Jews compared to one in 1,700 Muslims are likely to be victims of "faith hate" attacks every year. The figure is based on data collected over three months in police areas accounting for half the Muslim and Jewish populations of England and Wales. The crimes range from assault and verbal abuse to criminal damage at places of worship.

Police forces started recording the religion of faith-hate crime victims only this year. They did so on the instruction of the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), which wanted a clear picture of alleged community tensions around the country, following reports of Muslims being attacked after September 11 and the July 7 London bombings last year.

However, the first findings, for July to September, obtained by The Sunday Telegraph under freedom of information legislation, show that it is Jews who are much more likely to be targeted because of their religion.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/12/17/nislam117.xml

[barb162]

13. "Jews far more likely to be victims of faith hatred than Muslims "

thanks for posting that

[The Stranger]

17. My suspicion is also that the state police don't document their own anti-Muslim crimes.

When they surveil and raid supposed "terrorists," then illegally incarcerate, render, or torture them under the new "laws," it probably isn't considered an anti-Muslim hate crime, but that is because it is perpetrated by the state.

Then, of course, was that hapless, innocent Brazilian, believed by British police to be a "suicide bomber," and who was wrestled to the ground before being shot in the head seven times. That was actually cold-blooded murder, though I doubt it is included in the statistics.

[cali]

19. Apples and oranges.

Those aren't committed because of a persnon's faith, as far as I know. Yes, in many ways the power of the state exercised wrongly, is worse than individual hate crimes, but it is not the same thing. And appalling and wrong as the murder of the Brazilian was- and as clearly bungled, I fail to see it as a hate crime. In addition, there are real terrorists- as the bombing of the tube and bus in London last year demonstrated. That is not to excuse draconian laws or racial profiling: They are wrong, but you seem not to believe that there are only supposed "terrorists".

[The Stranger]

23. Of course the State can engage in hate crimes, and hate crimes are hate crimes.

That was the Nazis. In fact, the state can be the worst of all perpetrators of hate crimes because it can mask it by "legalizing" it, and because it has the greatest weapons and resources of all. The state can also prevent others from pointing out the injustice of such hate crimes.

The Brazilian who was murdered (actually, executed extrajudicially, by being shot in the head seven times while lying on the ground) was believed by the police to be a Muslim. If he were not believed to be a Muslim, he would not have received the fate he did.

[smirkymonkey]

34. There is always the assumption that it is white Christians who

are committing the hate crimes - the article makes the point that Jews are victimized more often than Muslims, but fails to state that it is often Muslims (referred to as "Asians" or "Arabic") who are committing hate crimes against Jews.

"Rabbi Alex Chapper, 33, was the victim of a "faith-hate" crime in July last year. He was returning from a synagogue in Ilford, Essex, with three Jewish friends after conducting a service. All were wearing skull caps. Seven Asian teenagers followed them down the road shouting "Yehudi", which means Jew in Arabic. One of them shouted, "We are Pakistani, you are Jewish. We are going to kill you", before punching Rabbi Chapper in the face and hitting one of his friends over the head with a bottle."

I don't think you get the full story until you break it down by who is being victimized and who is doing the victimizing.

[closeupready]

7. It's sad, but also satisfying (in a dark way), to see

how freepers verbally bash muslims, and feed the hatred.

Naturally, I would prefer that they don't do it at all. But in a free country, they are free to spew hatred.

It's satisfying in terms of consider how they chased away the Hispanic vote, which voted largely GOP in 2004, but switched to the Dems in 2006. They are just going to chase away all minorities. Which is fine with me.

[Briar]

8. Islamophobia

the "acceptable" bigotry. Just watch our politicians line up to take advantage of it. It's the season for slagging off women in veils!

[cali]

9. I've seen very few politicians

in this country demonstrate as much anti-Islam sentiment as they have anti-Hispanic sentiment. That seems to be the one they really indulge in. That's not to say that there isn't a distressing amount of anti-Muslim bigotry spewed by the right wingers. We don't however, have as big of a problem with hate crimes against Muslims in this country as they do in Europe.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[qwlauren35]

58. It's probably proximity.

A large Hispanic population lives to the South of the US border, and I sense that they have the largest immigration rate in the US.

A large Muslim population lives right below Europe, and I sense they have the largest immigration rate into Europe.

The US also has a history of prejudice and bigotry against nearly every major immigrant group that has hit our borders. Ask the "black Irish"...

I'm not proud of this, but it's pretty consistent historically. Perhaps the only difference is that our news media is now so pervasive that when bigotry and prejudice occur, we hear about it much sooner.

[treestar]

10. Very true, notice how it is commented the that Muslims have to do more

to counter the bad image, as if we are justified in holding all Muslims responsible for the acts of a few.

This is a big relief to the freepers, an "acceptable" hatred for which no one will chide them via "political correctness."

[MrPrax]

12. What a joke...

and racist to boot!

This is a study that is suggesting that the victims of discrimination and people LEGALLY practicing their religion should change their 'tactics'?

LOL ... yeah and maybe women shouldn't wear provocative clothing either. Maybe Jews in Germany should have done more to 'counter negative perceptions', huh?

Pile of crap...and intellectually insulting to say the least.

[barb162]

14. The end of the first sentence wasn't completed, here it is

"But it also noted that Muslims need to do more to counter negative perceptions driven by terrorism and upheavals such as the backlash to cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad."

The cartoon rioting, the reaction to the Pope's comments, the French riots and other instances of "unacceptable" behavior tend to create the backlash against Muslims. There are peaceful means of voicing discontent

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. It's kind of like apologizing for racism against black people...

by using the Watts riots as an example of how bad those black people are.

[Solon]

18. Actually, I would say that is accurate, especially in regards to the French Riots...

Which are, more or less, are a reaction against racial discrimination and being disenfranchised in your own nation.

[barb162]

21. being disenfranchised ?

Are you implying the French Muslims aren't allowed to vote when they are citizens of France?

[Solon]

26. Maybe disenfranchisement is the wrong word...

Let's just say they are pushed to the lowest rungs in French society, denied jobs, homes, etc. Also it wouldn't surprise me if similar shenanigans against African-French Muslims in France were used to prevent many from voting as happens, quite frequently here in the United States against African-Americans.

[Scurrilous]

27. Disenfranchised was correct.

Disenfranchised: To disfranchise.

Disfranchise: To deprive of a privilege, an immunity, or a right of citizenship, especially the right to vote; disenfranchise.

[Solon]

29. That's how I interepreted it initially...

The Rights of CITIZENS being trampled upon, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, voting is disenfranchisement. The shooting of those two Muslim teenagers was the last straw, basically.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Yeah, you were right on.

Lot's of weird qualifying going on around here.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[barb162]

41. Weird? A common definition of disenfranchisement

relates to voting
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/disenfranchised

Adj. 1. disenfranchised - deprived of the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote
disfranchised, voteless
enfranchised - endowed with the rights of citizenship especially the right to vote

[Solon]

47. Thanks for proving my point for me...

Notice the definition isn't exclusionary at all, it EMPHASIZES voting rights but isn't LIMITED to it.

[barb162]

20. There's the MLK peaceful protests or violent riots

Most people tend not to be positive about assessing a problem (legit or not)) when they are getting their car windows bashed.
I see little relevance for your analogy about Watts/racism/apologizing, etc

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Well, Barb...

Back in the sixties a lot of blacks were totally disenfranchised and victims of racism, after an incident involving abuse by a white police officer (again, a parallel to the Paris riots) the black people in Watts rioted (shit, I would have too if I were black and living in Watts at the time).

When it happened, a lot of racist white people said, "See? They're all a bunch of animals. It's their own fault they get treated the way they do."

I see little difference between the two situations.

[barb162]

24. I know what happened back then and don't see the relevance

of the analogy. People getting disenfranchised, lynched, imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit, etc., in the US for generations and then exploding into riots isn't the same as, um, riots over cartoons. Another important difference is that blacks were forced through slavery to go to the US. Who forced Moslems to go to Europe?

But going back to my original point, a peaceful protest ala MLK probably gets more respect than a riot. WHo wants to hire a rioter?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. The Paris riots were about police killing a couple of teenagers.

Muslim teenagers.

"riots over cartoons."

Rights over blatantly bigoted cartoons that depicted all muslims as terrorists. It was the straw that broke the camel's back.

"Another important difference is that blacks were forced through slavery to go to the US. Who forced Moslems to go to Europe?"

Why is that an important difference?

"But going back to my original point, a peaceful protest ala MLK probably gets more respect than a riot. WHo wants to hire a rioter?"

I'm still not following.

[Odin2005]

35. "blatantly bigoted cartoons that depicted all muslims as terrorists"

Gee, I remeber people carrying signs talking about beheading those who attack Islam...

[barb162]

40. The cartoons did not depict all Muslims as terrorists

Cops mistakenly kill people probably in all societies unfortunately. If you don't understand the diff betweeen someone being forced through slavery to go somewhere and someone willingly going somewhere, I can't help you. Islamophobia is happening for a number of reasons and probably rioting is not helping the cause of Moslems who wish to be looked on as integrated, functioning and productive members of society. Sometimes people tend to brand a whole ethnic or religious group for the actions of some members of the group. If you were an employer, who would you be looking at to hire? Someone with a criminal record or someone who can prove they've been studying or working hard. Most employers probably don't want to hire people who have been in trouble with the law.

[Solon]

46. And I guess your one of those people who like branding whole groups for actions of a few?

Sometimes people tend to brand a whole ethnic or religious group for the actions of some members of the group. If you were an employer, who would you be looking at to hire? Someone with a criminal record or someone who can prove they've been studying or working hard. Most employers probably don't want to hire people who have been in trouble with the law.

You changed the subject here, if someone THEMSELVES has a criminal record, they may not get hired, but not ALL French Muslims HAVE criminal records, yet they STILL can't get hired, I guess in your mind, that's perfectly justifiable.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Sure they did.

Those "cartoons" were as racist as it gets.

[smirkymonkey]

50. I started reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and

found out some new information about the Danish Cartoon "scandal" that I didn't know while it was going on. An excerpt from the book follows:

"I’ll end the chapter with a particular case study, which tellingly
illuminates society’s exaggerated respect for religion, over and above ordinary
human respect. The case flared up in February 2006 – a ludicrous episode,
which veered wildly between the extremes of comedy and tragedy. The
previous September, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published twelve
cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad. Over the next three months,
indignation was carefully and systematically nurtured throughout the Islamic
world by a small group of Muslims living in Denmark, led by two imams who
had been granted sanctuary there.12 In late 2005 these malevolent exiles
travelled from Denmark to Egypt bearing a dossier, which was copied and
circulated from there to the whole Islamic world, including, importantly,
Indonesia. The dossier contained falsehoods about alleged maltreatment of
Muslims in Denmark, and the tendentious lie that Jyllands-Posten was a
government-run newspaper. It also contained the twelve cartoons which,
crucially, the imams had supplemented with three additional images whose
origin was mysterious but which certainly had no connection with Denmark.
Unlike the original twelve, these three add-ons were genuinely offensive – or
would have been if they had, as the zealous propagandists alleged, depicted
Muhammad.

A particularly damaging one of these three was not a cartoon at
all but a faxed photograph of a bearded man wearing a fake pig’s snout held
on with elastic. It has subsequently turned out that this was an Associated
Press photograph of a Frenchman entered for a pig-squealing contest at a
country fair in France.13 The photograph had no connection whatsoever with
the prophet Muhammad, no connection with Islam, and no connection with
Denmark. But the Muslim activists, on their mischief-stirring hike to Cairo,
implied all three connections . . . with predictable results.

The carefully cultivated ‘hurt’ and ‘offence’ was brought to an
explosive head five months after the twelve cartoons were originally
published. Demonstrators in Pakistan and Indonesia burned Danish flags
(where did they get them from?) and hysterical demands were made for the
Danish government to apologize. (Apologize for what? They didn’t draw the
cartoons, or publish them. Danes just live in a country with a free press,
something that people in many Islamic countries might have a hard time
understanding.) Newspapers in Norway, Germany, France and even the
United States (but, conspicuously, not Britain) reprinted the cartoons in
gestures of solidarity with Jyllands-Posten, which added fuel to the flames.
Embassies and consulates were trashed, Danish goods were boycotted,
Danish citizens and, indeed, Westerners generally, were physically
threatened; Christian churches in Pakistan, with no Danish or European
connections at all, were burned. Nine people were killed when Libyan rioters
attacked and burned the Italian consulate in Benghazi. As Germaine Greer
wrote, what these people really love and do best is pandemonium.

A bounty of $1 million was placed on the head of ‘the Danish
cartoonist’ by a Pakistani imam – who was apparently unaware that there
were twelve different Danish cartoonists, and almost certainly unaware that
the three most offensive pictures had never appeared in Denmark at all (and,
by the way, where was that million going to come from?). In Nigeria, Muslim
protesters against the Danish cartoons burned down several Christian
churches, and used machetes to attack and kill (black Nigerian) Christians in
the streets. One Christian was put inside a rubber tyre, doused with petrol
and set alight. Demonstrators were photographed in Britain bearing banners
saying ‘Slay those who insult Islam’, ‘Butcher those who mock
Islam’, ‘Europe you will pay: Demolition is on its way’ and, apparently without
irony, ‘Behead those who say Islam is a violent religion’.

[Taoschick]

54. The Mohammad cartoons

Were important because they highlighted what happens when one group of people demand that all others follow their religious laws. There is a prohibition in the modern Muslim world against drawing depictions of Mohammad. When the religious prohibition was violated by non-Muslims, violence and threats ensued. I'm glad the cartoons were published. They exposed a very large problem.

[Chulanowa]

32. Then you're not following closely

The riots in Paris were largely done by Algerian immigrants, the majority of whom were Muslim. Why? It wasn't because they're Muslim, it's because Parisians expected the French-Algerians to be neither seen nor heard, refused to hire them or abused them when they were hired, etc. Religion had nothing to do with it - it was the lowest tier of a society getting fed up with the highest. White, Christian Parisians at the bottom of hte heap rioted alongside their Algerian muslim compatriots.

You find the same thing regarding many other such instances. Remember the "riots throughout the Muslim world" when Time magazine published a story that mentioned a Gitmo guard flushing a Koran? These were not worldwide - nor, in fact, were they riots about that. The people of a province of Afghanistan were rioting because their Govorner was bleeding them dry and suppressing their rights, and some people who were interviewed mentioned they were pissed about the Time story, too. Throw in some stock footage from the first Intifada, and you have a Mideast news story ready for feeding to American audiences.

A peaceful protest, like asking the Pope to apologize for calling the whole of Islam evil and corrupt? Oh sorry, he quoted a guy. I wonder what would happen if the al-Sistani were to start quoting Mein Kampf...

[barb162]

43. Is anyone rioting when Ahmadinejad calls for wiping Israel

off the planet or when he calls a Holocaust denial conference? Maybe Jews should be rioting over that?

[Chulanowa]

51. Why riot when you can undertake military and economic violence?

I love how "brushing the zionist occupation from the pages of history" has mutated into "wiping Israel off the planet". What's even more fun is the fact that this mutation is apparently grounds for denying Iran the same energy rights as every other nation on earth, and repeated, albeit thinly veiled threats of military strikes against its people.

With full support of people such as yourself, I'd wager. Isn't that just lovely? :)

[SemperEadem]

33. it's Muslims, not Moslems

see how quietly the dismissiveness and bias seeps in?

[Odin2005]

37. Moslem is a perfectly acceptable alternative spelling.

[barb162]

42. that's incorrect; either is correct

[Codeine]

53. Both are commonly used

as transliteration from one alphabet to another is approximate at best.

[TheMadMonk]

39. No one "forced" them,

They (or more correctly) their parents emigrated to France and took on the worst of the shit shoveling jobs in the hopes of securing a better life for their children. Today's rioters are those children who have been told in all but words, that good French jobs are for the (ethnically) French, and they will have to be content with shoveling shit alongside their parents.

I don't agree with their methods, but I certainly understand their frustrations.

[barb162]

44. Sounds like most people who emigrate to other countries

they start at the bottom; nothing new here

[TheMadMonk]

45. However, the children of imigrants do generally see...

...some improvement to their lot. These kids aren't. IIRC the unemployment rate amongst French Muslim youth is phenomenal. And they've been "told" it won't get any better for them (or probably their kids). They don't get the decent jobs because they are not (proper) French regardless of what it might state on their birth certificates.

They have been "told" that they have no future, and that the sacrifice (and probably pride swallowing) of their parents (fathers) was for nothing.

A man will swallow a lot of shit if it means a better life for his children. A child, who knows that all those shit sandwiches were consumed on his behalf, now become a man, is going to be just a trifle upset when he discovers that a) his father debased himself for no net gain and b) he'd better develop a taste for the same diet.

[Psephos]

52. There are other reasons for that unemployment

not least of which is the requirement that once a French person lands a full-time job, their employer is obligated to keep them employed in perpetuity. That makes employers think carefully about offering jobs. Rather like marrying someone you don't know very well. It doesn't help that French Arabs self-sequester in ghettos, strictly maintaining their overseas culture and attitudes in their new country. They need to scatter and blend in, and adopt some of the culture of France, before the natural human urge to think of strangers as "them" rather than "us" can ever be overcome. No one wants to hire "them" when they can hire "us." I've seen people on this very board boast they don't even talk to their red-state relatives here in the U.S. I've seen plenty of posts advocating boycotts of companies perceived to be more red than blue. A shining example of us vs. them thinking at work. We're not U.S. citizens with common ground, we're blue us vs. red them. The same psychology applies when European French think about Arab French (and vice versa). Bottom line: the ghettos must be dissolved, and their sub-citizens must embrace their new land if their new land is to embrace them.

Recently, the French government proposed modifying the employment law so that it would apply only after a person had been working for two years. Young people of all nationalities took to the streets in major demonstrations, and the government had to back down. Cut their own throats, IMHO.

France is an economic laggard, with chronic unemployment in double digits, and little evidence of innovation or new business growth. Here's an example: of the largest 20 companies in France, not one has been in business for less than 50 years. (Compare that to the U.S., China, or even Poland.) Until the French economy is resurrected, the employment prospects for self-sequestered French Arabs will not be good...and the French economy is not going to be resurrected anytime soon.

Peace.

[DemExpat]

55. Excellent points in your first paragragh here.

With all of the excellent benefits of housing, education, training, and social security here in The Netherlands I am now convinced that the lagging behind of mostly Muslim immigrants in this country stems more from something inherent in the culture than Dutch intolerance of newcomers.
I see more intolerance of our Western culture and progressive society by many Muslims here than there was (before 9/11, London, Madrid and Van Gogh's murder)from the Dutch towards them.

I do now see a general mistrust and anger towards Muslims here though, and that will take some time to turn around, I'm afraid.

DemEx

[Psephos]

56. Your perspective from The Netherlands is most valuable

It's hard to imagine a more tolerant or humane people than the Dutch. O8)

I think Eibl-Eibesfeldt explained the outsider mentality as well any one before or since. His classic "Love and Hate" should be read by those hoping to understand and defuse the tensions between Arab French and European French (and everyone else, too).

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Hate-Behavior-Patterns-Foundations/dp/020202038X/sr=8-1/qid=1166672416/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-2720660-8775239?ie=UTF8&s=books

BTW, I re-read my own post, and it sounds a bit harsh on France. Although I don't think the French economy is particularly healthy, and will need some structural changes to be able to offer immigrant Arabs a job, I remain a Francophile and deeply appreciate French contributions to art, literature, gastronomy, and general humanity.

Peace.

[AliceWonderland]

36. I worked with a couple of virulent Muslim/Arab haters

RW talk radio listener types. The things they used to spew were soul-curdling. Gays, liberals, Arabs & Muslims, immigrants... it was absolutely one of the best things about leaving that job, to get away from it.

Here's an example -- one guy was happy when, say, 10 people died in a car bomb in Baghdad. "10 less in the world." It's disturbing how humanity can be so completely, utterly wiped away. So yes, based on that and things I've seen on other internet sites, this report doesn't surprise me.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hatalles]

49. A worthwhile read on Islamophobia...

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/confronting_the_monolith_the_struggle_against_islamophobia_and_osamaism/

[Javaman]

57. Personally, I perfer, "Imamimania", it rolls off the tongue better...

I weep for our world.