Chávez opponents in move to trigger referendum.

[Say_What]

:wtf: I thought they had their recall drive. What's this? Did I miss something? If they're having another *drive* then that tells me they didn't get enough signatures in the first round.
:wtf:

<clips>

Opponents of Hugo Chávez, Venezuela's president, are due to begin a four-day drive today Friday to collect at least 2.4m signatures to trigger a recall referendum on Mr Chávez's rule.

Under the watchful eye of international observers from the Organisation of American States (OAS), including César Gaviria, secretary-general, and the Carter Center, the Atlanta-based pro-democracy foundation, opposition leaders expect to collect as many as 4m signatures.

That would significantly exceed the 2.4m threshold that would require the authorities to organise a recall ballot that asks the electorate whether Mr Chávez's mandate, due to finish in 2007, should be terminated early.

If Mr Chávez were to leave office as a result of a recall vote, which analysts say would be likely to be held in April, elections would have to be held 30 days later to select a leader to govern the world's fifth-largest oil exporter.


http://www.falkland-malvinas.com/Detalle.asp?NUM=2923&Palabra=

[MasonJar]

1. This is unbelievable.

The majority will riot.

[Katherine2]

4. I saw a movie

this weekend about the coup in Venezuela, called "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised". It was really good and went into how the media were distorting the facts and manipulating the masses of people, and how Chavez' people went throughout the country, teaching poor people how to read the Constitution, and telling them what their rights were. The people rose up because they knew the only way Chavez could be removed was through a referendum. It is not playing many places, but it was really good.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

6. That "education" may be going on again, but this time

with free medical care tossed in for good measure...

see
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=263705

[Judi Lynn]

14. You're tossing around some real misinformation on Venezuela

Luckily, I know the real story and I'm posting it on this thread, too.

There are NOT 11,000 Cuban doctors flowing into Venezuela monthly. That is an ATROCIOUS "misstatement."

At the time of writing of my first article, there were 2,000 in the entire country. Cuba could never afford to lose this monstrous number of doctors. What on earth can you be thinking?

For readers, here is the information concerning the arrangement Cuba as well as ALL THE OTHER CARIBBEAN ISLANDS AND CENTRAL AMERICAN COUNTRIES buy(s) oil at an adjusted rate, according to the San Jose agreement, the beginning of which was 1980, with Jamaica, LONG BEFORE CHAVEZ was anywhere near the Presidency.

Here are two of MANY links on the subject:

JudiLyn (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-11-03 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #11

14. Venezuela & Mexico administer San Jose accord,sell oil to Caribbean and Central America, I've got a link to illuminate. There are many more links for anyone who would like to find out more:



Friday, 20 October, 2000, 02:36 GMT 03:36 UK
Venezuela signs cheap oil pact

The world's third-largest oil exporter, Venezuela, has signed an agreement to supply cheap oil to Central American and Caribbean countries.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said the accord, which 10 countries signed on Thursday, would support the region's developing economies.

"We are not giving oil away, nor is that what our brothers are asking for - this is a simple co-operation agreement," he said.

A BBC correspondent in the region says the accord is part of attempts by Mr Chavez to gain more influence and fulfill his vision of closer integration.

Critics say the accord provides no benefits for Venezuelan exporters and could be harmful to business.

Loans

The Caracas accord will double the 80,000 barrels of oil a day already provided on favourable terms by Venezuela to 11 of its neighbours under the 1980 San Jose accord, which it administers jointly with Mexico.

Venezuela will finance up to 25% of the cost of the crude when oil prices are over $15 a barrel.

The loans will be for up to 15 years, with a one-year grace period, an interest rate of only 2%, and the opportunity to pay for some of the oil in kind. (snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/980684.stm

So you can see, CUBA IS NOT THE ONLY COUNTRY TO BENEFIT FROM THIS ARRANGEMENT.

As long as people aren't aware of the actual information, it's easy to sell them anything. That's how propaganda survives.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Another look at the San Jose accord:


The San Jose Accord, an energy cooperation programme for Central American and Caribbean Countries, arose out of the needto help reduce the heavy oil import burden on non-oil producing countries in the region.

The Accord is a Venezuela/Mexico oil facility initiated in 1980 when the international oil market was experiencing its second shock. The PCJ negotiated on behalf of the Government of Jamaica. Under the agreement, Mexico and Venezuela, under concessionary financial terms, provide 29,000 barrels of crude oil per day to Jamaica.
Under the original Agreement, there was provision for 20% of the cost of the crude oil to be made available as a low interest loan for development projects when the price of oil exceeds US$15 per barrel. The Agreement is reviewed annually and the terms have been modified, making the Accord less concessional.

The Accord provides for:-



Quota allocation to be made to the importing country each year, based on the quantity supplied the previous year.


Deferred payment on 20% of the cost of the crude, to be made available to the government as a low interest loan for development projects.


If development projects are not achieved, then the 20% deferred payment is to be settled within five (5) years.
Petrojam refinery to process crude oil under the Agreement. (snip/)



http://www.pcj.com/alliance_main.htm

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

16. Ummm, have YOU read any of my posts?

I was highlighting the idiocy of those numbers.


I doubt Cuba even has 11,000 doctors.

[Judi Lynn]

17. Sorry, WannaJumpMyScooter, I did misread you altogether, apparently.

Very glad to learn I was wrong. Sorry.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

18. Quite all right. It happens. I have done it too.

:toast:

[Say_What]

7. Amazing film, eh Katherine? I saw it too as have a lot of us here at DU

who are interested in Venezuela.

If you haven't seen them already, you might also consider seeing Plan Colombia: Cashing in on the Drug War Failure and Hidden in Plain Sight about the SOA. I saw them in SF and they played together--two great documentaries for the price of one. Equally as good as "Revolution".

Welcome to DU :hi:

[Katherine2]

11. Hey thanks

for the welcome and for the recommendation on the other movies. It's hard to find documentaries like these playing here in Orange County, CA, but they usually come to LA sooner or later.

I don't know too much about Venezuela, but remember when Chavez was elected and thought it seemed like a good thing. What is the controversy about his election that people refer to? Can you tell me something about it, or refer me to some websites? (I mean how some people say Chavez stole the election.) Thanks.

[pescao]

13. elections

the only time i ever heard anyone insinuate that chávez' landslide election victory was in any way dishonest was tonight on the other venezuela thread! seriously, no-one disputes he won fair and square, or that the two parties he beat were dreadfully corrupt. lots of people think that his programs of universal free health care and giving a million extra kids an education, not to mention rebuilding the ghettos and distributing the oil wealth to the people, are downright communist (!) but that's another matter. it's a great film, isn't it! it'll be on HBO soon, apparently. and welcome to DU!

[ozone_man]

9. I want to see that.

It was playing in Montreal recently (pretty close), but it wasn't a convenient time to go.

BTW, welcome to DU Katherine2. :toast:

[pescao]

20. review in today's WP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58154-2003Dec11.html

In Venezuela, A Filmmaking, & Political, Coup

By Ann Hornaday
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 12, 2003; Page C01

For three days in the spring of 2002, Irish television journalists Kim Bartley and Donnacha O'Briain had an all-access backstage pass to history.

Visiting Caracas, Venezuela, to film a TV documentary about that country's controversial president, Hugo Chavez, Bartley and O'Briain happened to be in the presidential palace on April 11, 2002, when anti-Chavez forces staged a coup. Over the next 72 hours, the team kept their cameras on, and the result is "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised," an extraordinary inside look at politics at its most urgent, volatile and bare-knuckled.

Chavez, who led his own coup in 1992 and was later imprisoned, was elected in 1998 in large part for his plan to redistribute oil wealth and for his stance against U.S. trade policies. (Venezuela is one of the world's largest oil producers.) "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" opens with Chavez greeting supporters while he tours the countryside like a Castroesque rock star; everywhere he goes, people thrust notes and photos and CDs into his hands, chanting his name and pressing him for help and sympathy. A genial, larger-than-life figure, Chavez embraces nearly everyone he meets in a bear hug, even delivering affectionate swats to the young soldiers who guard him. A self-described revolutionary in the tradition of Simon Bolivar, Chavez is clearly a potent populist leader whose charisma and following among the poor pose a threat to the Venezuelan ruling class he has vowed to take on.

During Bartley and O'Briain's months-long visit to Venezuela, Chavez announced a plan to redistribute oil wealth, and anti-Chavez forces immediately kicked into high gear, meeting in homes to discuss strategy ("It's important to keep an eye on your domestic servants") and taking to the airwaves to denounce Chavez as a mentally deranged puppet of Fidel Castro.

...

[Judi Lynn]

21. After reading your review of "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised"

I looked up the movie's own site, and found this interesting item, which Say_What covered recently in a thread.

It's very interesting seeing it worded like this:

Amnesty Confirms Violence Fears

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amnesty International (AI) has publicly confirmed that a fear of violence directed at their staff forced the organisation to withdraw 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised' from their recent film festival in Vancouver, Canada.
In an article in the Guardian newspaper
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,12716,1090788,00.html), an Amnesty spokesman said the organisation had been forced to pull the film after staff at their Venezuelan office expressed fears for their safety if the film was screened.

Prior to this, Amnesty has received a series of representations alleging that the film had distorted key events. These representations were rejected. The film was only pulled after the safety fears were raised.

The Guardian confirmed that the campaign to halt screenings of the film is connected to opponents of the Venezuelan government.

http://chavezthefilm.com/html/film/amnesty.htm

[Say_What]

2. Venezuela Judge OKs Coup-Related Trial For 8 Police

<clips>

CARACAS (AP)--A Venezuelan judge has authorized a trial for eight police officers accused of killing two people and wounding 35 during protests that helped spark a 2002 coup against President Hugo Chavez.

Prosecutor Danilo Anderson said Wednesday that a judge in the northwestern state of Aragua authorized the trial. It wasn't clear when the trial would begin.

The officers belong to the Metropolitan Police force controlled by Caracas Mayor Alfredo Pena. Pena, an opposition leader, has criticized the decision to accuse the officers, citing their right to proper defense.

Homicide charges carry a maximum penalty of 30 years in prison.

The officers allegedly shot at civilians as they escorted a huge opposition march toward the presidential palace on April 11, 2002. Gunfire erupted, leaving 19 Venezuelans dead and over 100 wounded, when the march approached a crowd of government supporters in downtown Caracas.

more...

[Judi Lynn]

3. This is going to hack off the opposition but GOOD!

Wonderful news. The opposition faction has been trying to force the illusion down everyone's throat that the killings were done by supporters of Chavez who showed up to protest the coup.

GREAT NEWS!

This seems important too, from the article:

The same court that issued arrest warrants for the police dismissed murder charges against four Chavez supporters who allegedly were videotaped shooting at the opposition march.

Cool, huh? About time they got something right. Hope it's the start of a trend.

Thanks for this information.

[Say_What]

8. In the movie it was clear that the shooter on the bridge, which golpistas

claimed was a Chavista shooting at innocent people in the street below the Llaguno bridge, was a set up. When the camera zooms out in the film the street below is empty. I posted a photo of the same thing that was a clip from Cisneros's Globovision. I'll be damned if I can find it now.

[Bush loves Jiang]

5. Rethuglians...

Chicons good, progressives evil.

[Minstrel Boy]

10. And James "from the left" Carville is advising the recall.

What does that say about the state of the "presentable left" on American television? Carville has disgraced himself.

Chavez will either be okay, or there will be a bloodbath. The people will not be ruled by oligarchs. His opponents think it foolish that Chavez so often waves a copy of the constitution, but what's he defending and honouring? Constitutional rule.

[bemildred]

12. Seems to be dated 28 November.

[Judi Lynn]

15. Venezuela Agents Raid Bomb Suspect's Home

Venezuela Agents Raid Bomb Suspect's Home
Tue Dec 9, 5:31 PM ET


CARACAS, Venezuela - Federal agents raided the home Tuesday of a dissident military officer accused of the February bombings of Colombian and Spanish diplomatic missions, the state news agency said.

Agents found documents that allegedly link dissident Gen. Felipe Rodriguez to the bombings, federal prosecutor Danilo Anderson was quoted as saying.

Forty-five 7.62-caliber bullets — ammunition used in Venezuela's military-issue automatic rifles — and messages calling for disobedience against President Hugo Chavez were also discovered, Anderson told Venpres.

Betty Rodriguez, the dissident's wife, said the bullets found at the residence in central Aragua state were part of her son's private arms collection, Venpres reported. (snip)

(snip) Leaders of a group of more than 100 military officers who declared themselves in rebellion against Chavez last year are being investigated in the blasts. Many of the dissidents have since fled the country or gone into hiding. (snip/...)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031209/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_bombings

[happyslug]

19. I know Mexico outlaws Civilians owning weapons of a Military caliber

Does Venezuela also ban such weapons? i.e. the 7.62mm mentioned in the Article. I am assuming it is 7.62x51 NATO ammunition for its old FN FAL Rifles purchased during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s (replaced by Israeli Galil's starting in the 1980s).

In Mexico (last time I read) it was illegal for Civilians to own 7x57mm Mauser, 7.62X63mm (30'06), 7.62x51 (.308 Winchester, 7.62mm NAT0) ammunition. All had been used by the Mexican Military since 1900 and thus still illegal for Civilians to own in Mexico.

For decades Colt produced its .45 Automatic Pistol in .38 Super for sale primarly in Mexico for the same reason. .45 ACP ammo was Military caliber and thus illegal for Civilians to own, so everyone purchaesed the same pistol but in .38 Super (A non-military caliber and thus legal for Civilians to own).