VOA: Dutch Center-Right Christian Democrats Ahead in Polls

[Eugene]

Dutch Center-Right Christian Democrats Ahead in Polls
By Lauren Comiteau
Amsterdam
22 November 2006


Polls in the Netherlands' parliamentary election have closed, with preliminary results
showing the ruling Christian Democrats in the lead. The big winner of the day, though,
appears to be the Socialist Party, which appears to have more than doubled the number
of its parliament seats. Lauren Comiteau has more for VOA on the Dutch parliamentary
elections from Amsterdam.

Supporters of the ruling Christian Democrats celebrate as the first results of this
close race are read out. But putting together another ruling coalition won't be easy,
especially since their politically conservative partners, the VVD, seem to have lost
one-quarter of their seats.

Leaders of the Christian Democrats say they're happy they're still the biggest party
in the Netherlands. Leaders of the Labor Party, meanwhile, say they are disappointed
in their second-place showing, but at least the current center-right coalition appears
to be history.

The big winners of the night are the Socialists-who seem to have tripled the number
of their seats. Socialist Party MP Agnes Kant told Dutch broadcaster NOS that the
results were more than the party expected.

-snip-

Full article: http://voanews.com/english/2006-11-22-voa81.cfm

Also: Dutch on course for split result - BBC

[angstlessk]

1. Talk about confusing...'but the big winner is the Socialist Party?

WHO WON? I cannot tell from this post!

[Eugene]

2. Parliamentary system. No majority yet. Lots of hard bargaining ahead.

The center-right Christian Democrats got the most seats but their farther-right
coalition parter lost big. The hard-line rightist coalition is probably over.

[muriel_volestrangler]

3. It looks a bit like the last German election did

Biggest party is centre-right; 2nd biggest centre-left. The liberal (in European terms - maybe better thought of as libertarian in American terms) party probably isn't big enough to form a governing coalition with the centre-right; the left wing party (the Socialists, who gained a lot of seats compared to last time, to become the 3rd largest) and the Greens probably won't get quite enough seats to form one with the centre left (there are a few seats going to a far-right party, plus a few others). So a 'grand coalition' of the 2 large centre-ish parties could be the result.

[Toots]

23. Sounds like Liberals won the most but don't yet have control

:shrug: The world is changing and apparently for the better..

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. First, define 'liberal'

remember that adjective is normally used in Europe for a pro-free trade, socially liberal party.

Anyway, here are the provisional results:

In Wednesday's election, the CDA secured 41 of the 150 seats to the PvdA's 33. The SP was third with 25, followed by the VVD with 22 seats. Wilders' PvdV gained nine and Green-Left seven. Four other parties secured six or fewer seats.

http://www.playfuls.com/news_10_3963-ROUNDUP-Seat-Adjustment-In-Dutch-Elections-Between-Parties-On-Left.html

CDA=centre-right
PvdA=centre-left
SP=left
VVD=right 'liberal'
PvdV=far right
Green-Left=well, green and left.

So, with 76 seats needed for a majority, no two parties can form a coalition on their own.

[PartTimeSatanist]

4. In Europe: Christian Democrats = Ultra-Nationalists

Neo-fascists with a slight Christian bent really. The whole Christian thing is there to imply white, but since White Democrats would probably be against the respective constitutions of those nations, as well as the EU charter, they settled with Christian instead.

[Jeroen]

5. Please stop your ridiculous misinformation

I live in the Netherlands and voted 'GroenLinks', a progressive party on the left.
The CDA (Christian Democrats) in The Netherlands is NOT an ultra-Nationalist party, on the contrary. The CDA would be considered left / liberal in the US by ‘US political standards’.

A new Dutch party, called ‘Partij voor de Vrijheid’ (Party for Freedom) is indeed an ultra-Nationalist party.
Yesterday, it received almost 8% of the popular vote in The Netherlands. This party is an one-issue party against Islam.

[PartTimeSatanist]

8. MSNBC: Geert Wilders: "We have enough Islam and enough mosques"

Christian Democratic Alliance is not "liberal" by any measure. They are pretty much fascists-lite, wannabes really. Other more "outspoken" parties are simply put, fascists. Pretty much all the differences boil down to: "put all of them in camps now", and "put some of them in camps now, and the rest later". Of course "them" means any dark skinned minorities, not necessarily Muslims/Arabs.

Article from MSNBC below:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christian Democratic Alliance (CDA) stays in power.

Balkenende claims victory in Dutch election
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15854675/

A shock winner was Geert Wilders, an anti-Islam campaigner who lives in hiding because of death threats. What had been a one-man party was forecast to win as many as eight seats in the 150-seat parliament.

Mr Wilders campaign, founded in the populist policies of Pim Fortuyn, the murdered right-winger, harvested half a million votes. "We have enough Islam and enough mosques in the Netherlands. That was an important part of our election programme but there was also much more," beamed Mr Wilders.

The big loser was the liberal VVD, Mr Balkenende's ally in his three previous governments. It has struggled to stamp a clear identity for itself since Rita Verdonk, the hardline immigration minister, lost a leadership contest to the youthful Mark Rutte, and was set to lose its place as the third-largest Dutch political party to SP.

-----------------------------------------------

[Jed Dilligan]

9. And DU doesn't have an anti-immigrant faction, either...

Center-right in Europe would be left-leaning moderate on DU.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. So your attempt to characterise the CDA consists of talking about other parties?

That's no good as an argument, is it? If you're going to back up your earlier description of the CDA as 'neo-fascist', 'ultra-nationalist' and racist, then you need to talk about that party, don't you?

Here's an article that has some facts in:

Christian Democratic Appeal

Formed in 1977 as an alliance of the mainstream Roman Catholic and Protestant parties, the Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA) promotes centrist policies and has been the most important political force in the Netherlands' post-second world war history. It suffered its most severe defeat at the 1994 election, when it lost one-third of its electoral support because of its proposals to cut pensions. Following a leadership crisis in September 2001, Mr Balkenende was chosen as the new party leader. Helped by being in opposition at the time, Mr Balkenende took an engaged and constructive attitude to the rise of Pim Fortuyn in early 2002, and the CDA emerged as the clear winner of the May 2002 general election. Following the collapse of the short-lived coalition of the CDA, VVD and LPF in October 2002, the CDA narrowly beat the PvdA to emerge again as the largest party in the January 2003 general election, enabling it to take the lead in forming a new government. Following failed talks with the PvdA, Mr Balkenende turned to the CDA's former coalition partner, the VVD, to form a centre-right coalition with the support of the smaller left-liberal D66. Mr Balkenende and the CDA, although competent and presiding over a gradual improvement in the economy, have failed to provide a clear stamp of firm government and leadership in socially and economically difficult times. Nevertheless the CDA’s standing remains sufficiently high for it to be likely to be in a position to participate in whatever government emerges after the next election on November 22nd2006.

http://www.economist.com/countries/Netherlands/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-Political%20Forces

[PartTimeSatanist]

11. Oh please!

First of all, I'm not from Albuquerque and football is pretty much a religion to me. (no, not the American one) Meaning? I'm not American. Born and bred European here, currently living/working abroad. Meaning? I know VERY well what various Christian parties and/or political movements stand for in Europe. So, I'm not buying.

Since the fall of the Berlin wall Christian parties have sprung up all over Eastern Europe (Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Romania, etc) and the already existing ones in Western Europe have gained strength. Notice I say Christian, this is because depending on the nation, they might be Christian Reformists, Christian Unionists, or similar, but Christian Democrat is what is most popular at the moment. In many places they are nothing but fronts for local neo-fascists, white-power nutjobs, or quite literally neo-nazi skinhead movements. (See latest happenings in Hungary). Like I said, Christian is there to imply white, but since using "white" would be pretty much illegal and against EU charter, they picked something else. Pretty smart of them. They all have several things in common:

They are all rabidly ultra-nationalistic, largely anti-EU (that goes without saying), anti-immigration (only when it comes to non-whites), racists (many don't even deny this), and pro-war (pretty much any war).

Now, you can try to pull a fast one on our uninformed North American friends here, but I know better.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. And since the CDA were in government long before the Berlin Wall fell

your argument is complete bollocks.

In 1977, a major change in Dutch politics took place. The KVP, ARP, and CHU united to form the Christian Democratic Appeal (CDA), after a long process of negotiations that began in 1967. In its first election, the CDA took almost a third of the seats, just a few below the Labor Party. That showing was strong enough to put the CDA in the position to head a government, along with the VVD. This coalition took seven months to form, the longest deadlock in Dutch history. It occurred only after negotiations between the CDA and the PvdA failed, first over tax issues, then over the issue of abortion. The government formed by the CDA and VVD had a very small majority in the Tweede Kamer (77 out of 150), made potentially smaller by 8 left wing members of the CDA, who vowed to vote their personal views if they were in conflict with what was agreed upon by the parties. In 1981, the government lost that majority after taking only 74 seats total. The CDA lost only 1 seat, and the VVD only lost 2. The PvdA, however, lost 9 seats, making the CDA the strongest party in the parliament. Meanwhile, the D66 had its most successful election up until that time, setting it up to become part of the new government. The CDA headed up that government, with the PvdA and D66.
...
Original Parties from 1950-1962 terminating before 2000

261 Catholic People's Party (KVP). The strongest party in parliament for most of the period and usually head of the governmental coalition, the KVP began to lose seats steadily beginning with the 1967 election. Although it was still able to form its usual right-center governmental coalition under Petrus J. S. de Jong as Prime Minister, the KVP surrendered that office when it participated in another right-center coalition in 1971-1972 and in a left-center coalition in 1973-1977. Its influence waning, the party merged with two Protestant parties in December 1976 to form the Christian Democratic Appeal.

264 Anti-Revolutionary Party (ARP). This Calvinist party derived its name from its opposition to aspects of the French Revolution. Never so strong as the KVP, the ARP also lost seats rather steadily since the early 1950s. It also ended its separate existence in 1976 upon the creation of the Christian Democratic Appeal.

265 Christian Historical Union (CHU). Smaller than either the KVP or the ARP, the Protestant CHU (also Calvinist but more inclined to a church-state) experienced the same erosion of strength over time. It too merged into the Christian Democratic Appeal in 1976.

http://janda.org/icpp/ICPP2000/Countries/2-ScandinaviaBenelux/26-Netherlands/Netherlands63-00.htm

You also think you've got more credibility in this than Jeroen, who voted in the election? How about the BBC, describing the 2002 elections:

Christian Democratic Appeal

The CDA, the moderately conservative Christian Democratic Party, is the main winner of the election, taking the most seats.

Until relatively recently it had dominated the Dutch political scene, playing a part in every coalition government from 1918 to 1994.

It fell from grace for a while, largely due to a proposal to cut old age pensions.

However, the party has now risen back into favour.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1985456.stm

DUTCH REFERENDUM
"Yes" camp
Christian Democrats (CDA), largest government party, plus coalition partners VVD and D66
Labour (PVDA) and Green Left opposition parties
"No" camp
Right-wing Pim Fortuyn party
Socialist Party
ChristienUnie and SGP, Christian parties

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4601731.stm

"largely anti-EU (that goes without saying)"? Looks like you don't know what you're talking about. Again, you try to use what's going on in Hungary to characterise the Netherlands? Why can't you actually say something about the party you're trying to paint as fascist?

[PartTimeSatanist]

16. Are we a member perhaps?

CDA is pretty much what BNP is in UK, like I mentioned below. So is every other Christian party in Europe. That's a fact.

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. I've never accused you of being a member of the BNP

or the CDA for that matter, so I don't know why you're coming up with this 'we' stuff. For the record, I'm not a member of any political party. However, it's clear that no-one believes a word you say on this subject. The Dutch DUers say you're wrong; the media says you're wrong. You also don't seem to know the meaning of the word "fact" - perhaps English isn't your first language.

Why are you continuing to talk rubbish? What do you think you're gaining?

[DemExpat]

15. This doesn't apply at all to the CDA.

They are all rabidly ultra-nationalistic, largely anti-EU (that goes without saying), anti-immigration (only when it comes to non-whites), racists (many don't even deny this), and pro-war (pretty much any war).

DemEx

[DemExpat]

14. Thanks, you are right, this is misinformation.

I voted PVdDieren, others in my household voted CDA and D66....

DemEx

[Vidar]

6. Purest bunk.

[DemExpat]

13. Another Dutchie here who totally disagrees with this.

CDA would be closest IMO to the moderate Dmeocrats here in the US.


DemEx

[PartTimeSatanist]

17. Moderate Democrats in the US?

Moderate Democrats voted for the war in Iraq, overwhelmingly. Is that your point?

CDA is pretty much what BNP is in UK. So is every other Christian party in Europe. DemExpat, the fact that you say "others in my household voted CDA" might be clouding your judgment. Listen, many Dutch had family members who were members of the NAZI party during the 1930/1940, yet they accepted this and fought against them.

[DemExpat]

19. LOL......

:rofl:

DemEx

[PartTimeSatanist]

20. I'm glad to see that you find this topic funny.

Voting for CDA is as close as you can get to voting for a neo-fascist movement in modern day Europe.

To any north American readers: These guys are much worse than anything your Republican party can spawn. If they had their ways, Europe would be back in 19th century, ideologically. Remember, just like your Republicans, they are Christians in name only. Christianity is just something they use to attract voters and is, well... legal. (as compared to calling themselves White Christian Appeal)

The only thing keeping these guys in check, and other Christian parties in Netherlands and elsewhere (for now at least) is the parliamentary nature of European political system.

[floda]

21. here is some more info about its Ideology & Issues

Ideology & Issues

The CDA is a Christian-democratic party, but the Bible is only seen as a source of inspiration for individual members of parliament. The party also has Jewish, Islamic and Hindu members of parliament, and it favours the integration of Muslim minorities into Dutch culture and opposes radical Islam <1>.

The party has four main ideals: shared responsibility, stewardship, justice and solidarity. Shared responsibility refers to the way society should be organized: not one organization should control all society, instead the state, the market, and social institutions, like churches and unions should work together. This is called sphere sovereignty, a core concept of protestant political philosophy. Furthermore, this refers to the way the state should be organized. Not one level of the state should have total control, instead responsibility should be shared between local, provincial, national and European government. This called subsidiarity in Catholic political taught. With stewardship the christian-democrats refer to the way we should treat our planet: the Earth is gift from God. Therefore we should try to preserve our environment.

Practically, this means the CDA is a centrist party, with conservative leanings.

* The party is fiscal conservative: the state deficit should be repaid in one generation, to cope with the effects of the aging population.
* The party is social-conservative: the toleration of some drugs should come to an end, furthermore the practices of prostitution, abortion and euthanasia should be limited.
* The party is a staunch proponent of European integration. The party however is not in favour of the accession of Turkey.
* The party wants to make schools and hospitals more responsible for their own policy, instead of regulating everything by the government.



Well, does this look like a neo-fascist party?


Much more one wikipedia in any language you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Democratic_Appeal

[PartTimeSatanist]

26. Are you kidding me?

No comment from me on that article (although unintentionally, it is a very revealing one). All of it speaks for itself. Just one question? Did you read what your wrote (copied from a wikipedia article that is), or was it just a ultra-nationalistic defense reflex kicking in?

Does this look like a neo-fascist party, you ask? Ridiculous promotional CDA wikipedia article aside, the answer is yes. Like I said, in an earlier post, I'm from the neighborhood, so you can only try and sell this propaganda to our less knowledgeable North American friends.

[Orrin_73]

7. Christian Democrats (CDA) is not the real problem

the real problem is Geert Wilders and Liberal party (VVD). Geert Wilders was once a member of the VVD.

[upi402]

22. That's kinda 'inside baseball' to me n/t

[LeftishBrit]

24. Perhaps it means something different in different countries?

I am not very familiar with Dutch politics, but in most Europaean countries "Christian Democrats" means essentially "moderate Conservatives". Most of the moderate Conservative groups in western Europe would indeed be more like moderate Dems than Republicans in the USA. Some of them are outflanked by more right-wing parties, which can be ultra-nationalist and racist: the one with which I'm most familiar is LePen's National Front in France, which is pretty much like our BNP, only more influential. But most parties that call themselves Christian Democrats are centre-right rather than far-right.