Ga. Display Lists Vets' Names by Race ( WTF whites and colored grrrrr

[wakeme2008]

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Segregated-Honors.html?pagewanted=print

November 11, 2006
Ga. Display Lists Vets' Names by Race
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 10:33 p.m. ET

BUTLER, Ga. (AP) -- A display in a central Georgia community divides the names of 800 local veterans into two lists, marked in large type: ''Whites'' and ''Colored.''

The display has been in the lobby of the Taylor County courthouse since 1944, honoring servicemembers who fought in World War II. The two lists are mounted side by side behind glass in two large frames.

John Cole Vodicka, an activist from Americus, is organizing a rally Monday at the courthouse to persuade the county commission to take down the display.

..more at link....

[goclark]

1. Unreal! nt

[napi21]

2. This is really rural Ga. It doesn't surprise me that racism still

wxists there. It still exists here not far from Atlanta, but the people try to hide it here.

[last1standing]

5. Come to Detroit and see it on full display.

We have a city that's 90% black and surrounding suburbs that are 80% white. Many of the white people have never even been to Detroit even though it's the largest city within 300 miles and they're less than 20 miles away from it.

Racism isn't just in the south, that's for sure.

[skipos]

9. What is racist about a suburbanite who doesn't go to Detroit?

Is a black person who never goes to the suburbs racist?

I know plenty of people of all colors who don't go there very often because there is nothing there they want to see. I think Detroit is on the (slow) rebound though.

[last1standing]

12. I can't think of any other metro area where suburbanites have never been to "The City".

And the only reason "there is nothing there they want to see" is because they've never been to find out. Detroit isn't the greatest city on earth by any stretch, but it does have excellent restaurants, clubs, Eastern Market, the riverfront, Jazz-fest, Tastefest, the Tigers, the Lions, the Wings, the opera house, concerts, casinos, Greektown, Corktown, Indian Village, Hamtramck, Belle Isle, mind-bogglingly beautiful architecture and some of the nicest human beings on the planet. There's literally something for everyone and a lot more than I've mentioned.

I'm not saying that every suburbanite must go into the city every week in order to not be a racist, but I think you've heard many people, much as I have, say they don't like Detroit because it so "dark".

[skipos]

16. I have lived in MI my whole life and I swear I have never

heard anyone talk about not going to Detroit because it is "dark" or any variation of that. I am sure there are people that feel that way, but then again there are people who think Bush is too liberal. I agree, Detroit has some great things, but it also has a disproportionate amount of abandoned buildings and burnt out homes. It has fallen on harder times than any other American city that I have even been in (there are many I haven't been in mind you). I don't blame people for being intimidated by it.

[last1standing]

18. I agree about the devestation.

Sometimes it tears my heart to see some of those beautiful building boarded up and I know there's some truth in what you say. But I come from an area that boomed because of "white-flight" in the late 60's, early 70's, Flat Rock. I met many people there who just don't like Detroit and the people in it. Working in places like Troy and Ann Arbor I met many more.

Personally, I hope that you're closer to being right here than I am, but I can't help but doubt it.

[QC]

42. Michigan is the most segregated state in the country.

http://mlui.org/growthmanagement/fullarticle.asp?fileid=16480

[onehandle]

3. Well, it is from 1944.

A story only published because it's Veterans Day.

We have bigger and more current racist problems here in Georgia.

[jwirr]

38. To me this memorial says two things: They are honoring ALL the

vets (they could have failed to mention the black soldiers at all and probably gotten away with it), and second they are a revelation of the times (separatism).

I would not take this down. It is a clear lesson of what discrimination is all about. It is like a museum that recreates the times in our time. Let people learn from it. I would put one of those speakers that explain the facts in a museum beside it that talks about the separation of those days.

[Spangle]

40. I agree

We can't and shouldn't cover up history. THAT is exactly what happened and how people acted at that time.

When modern kids go see that, they will NOTICE what it says. They will ask questions, etc.

Kids now days think racism is just calling people names. Or having to be politicaly correct. They have NO CLUE what it was like.

ALSO, it's a way to prove that it wasn't just whites who where in the military fighting for our coutnry. We have black history month for a reason. History books tend to be the 'white' story. For years people begged for the book makers and schools to teach a more includes history that truely covers ALL who founded and BUILT USA! But they refused. Now we have black history month. In Florida we also spend time on Hispanic History. I'm still waiting to see others included. It would have been much EASIER ot just include everyone in the history books in the first place. LOL! Much easier for the parents.. those of us who have to gather the special supplies for each project, etc. And help the kids to do research, etc.

Yes, there was a group of people who gathered together and signed some freedom papers. But truely, this country wasn't built over night. It wasn't built by those who signed the paper. IT was built over a length of time. And by a mass number of different people from all over the world.

[brer cat]

4. Please tell me that I'm dreaming?

I didn't just read this, did I? I'm from GA and I'm so ashamed. The last few days of celebration just ended....and on a very sour note.

This is the biggest piece of s&*# that I've ever tried to pick up. Sorry, fellow Georgians, I just can't paint that, pick it up, toss it, or kick it.

I'm going back to bed and hope that I wake up in a different state!

[SouthernBelle82]

6. Too bad they couldn't

just copy the list and make a new memorial with everyone's name's just together and the dates and all that. No sense in still having it separated like that.

[brer cat]

10. Well, duh!

The "late unpleasantness" ended about a 150 years ago. Can we get over that? Please?

[struggle4progress]

13. They already have a new list like that up. They're not taking the old one down

[Glorfindel]

7. Hey, Hiawassee! I'm originally from Ellijay...

living in Mississippi now, but I'll always be a Georgia mountain boy at heart. (Not like ol' sorry ass Zell, though *gag*) Don't let a list from 1944 get you down. Georgia has deteriorated in the last few years, but it will come to its senses soon, I'm sure. :hi: :dem:

[brer cat]

11. Nice to meet you! Unfortunately Zell still lives down road from me.

I just wear my birks and wave them out the window when I drive by his house on GA76...or is it Main street...or is it 575...or is it ....Zell Miller Parkway!... lol

[JI7]

8. if it's from 1944 it's not surprising

so i assume it was made then and just never changed.

i remember Alabama voted against removing segregationist language from their Constitution 2 years ago.

as with other things, put it in a museum. and put up another one which isn't divisive and honors all equally.

[Orangepeel]

14. instead of taking it down, I think they ought to add an educational display

explaining segregation and what ended it. Erasing the memory of that part of our history, isn't the answer. Calling it out as a shameful part of our past is more appropriate.

[davepc]

15. good 'ole "separate but equal"

stuff like this makes you realize how far we've come, and realize how far we have yet to go.

[lcordero2]

17. This actually needs to stay like this

It needs to stay like this so that the truth about America's past will not be hidden away from non-white people.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

19. It needs to stay for all people, of all races...And updated

to include a panel with the names of all the vets together.

[lcordero2]

25. It needs to stay like this

It needs to stay like this as a reminder that the people on the "Colored" side fought a war and came back to Jim Crow and lynchings. Integrating both sides is revisionism and a hiding of the truth.

[saigon68]

28. Yes there were thousands of Lynchings of "colored men"

usually after unproven charges of rape of white girls etc etc.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

41. Not if they keep the original, too, like I suggested.

It's a statement that segregation was what they came home to, that it was wrong, and that we're sorry.

[rodeodance]

20. The signs are part of the troops history. Therefore it should remain as is.

[BenDavid]

21. I have always thought

most folks in "Jawjuh" were fighting mental health and I be damned if I have not been proven right with this list....WOW!In the science of lighting, there is a continuum of colors of light that can be called "white". So white too is a color....

[kskiska]

22. I saw the same in New Orleans

[lithiumbomb]

23. a little context here

This is a monument erected in 1944. While offensive to us today, it would have been normal for the time and place. I agree it should be replaced with an integrated list, but keep in mind it is a part of their history as well. I think branding today's population of that area as a bunch of racists for something erected by their ancestors might be a bit much. Like many things, the issue is a grey area.

[LizW]

31. Well said. n/t

[vietnam_war_vet]

24. Blatant racism: Georgia is far from being the only place in America

Three weekends ago, my wife and I went over to the south Texas hill country community of Uvalde, her family's generational home.

We went to the city cemetery to visit her family plot, especially to see her Dad's grave site. He died seven years ago. She was very close to him.

At first, she had difficulty locating the family plot in that very large cemetery. After about 10 minutes of futile searching, she decided to get out of our car, continue searching on foot while I drove over to a small group of people who were working on the far side of the cemetery.

I drove up to a middle aged Hispanic couple and their daughter. They were sprucing up their family plot. I introduced myself, explained my wife's problem locating her family plot, and asked by chance if they may know where that particular plot was located.

Without sarcasm or incivility, the husband asked me, "you're not from around here, are you?" I told him that I wasn't.

He quietly explained that I was now on the "non-white" side of that cemetery....that all the deceased Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, and even those of the Jewish faith were buried there in the "non-white" side. He pointed to a low-to-the-ground metal pipe fence, painted bright orange, and said that the "whites only" section of that cemetery was on the other side of that fence. He furthered explained that non-whites were strongly discouraged from ever going over to that side of the cemetary.

I was incredulous! I asked him how - in 2006 - this blatantly racist and religiously intolerant tradition was still being followed. He replied if I lived there, then I would understand.

I drove back over to where my wife was (she had located her family plot) and informed her what the Hispanic gentleman had just told me. I asked her, "is this true?" She said yes, and that I hadn't seen anything yet.

We then went to the town's oldest and most popular family restaurant. A hostess greeted and seated us. My wife told me to look around....what did I see. With the exception of one table where two elderly women were seated (one white, one Hispanic), all the tables were of one race only. There simply wasn't any mixing of the races in that very large restaurant.

After eating, we drove to the Lost Maples State Park. On the way there, we had to drive through the small rural community of Utopia. Again, my wife asked me what did I see there. I had noticed an absence of our American flag, but instead, there were a number of confederate "stars and bars" displayed. I had also noticed that I didn't see any, not a single non-white person.

My wife told me that Utopia is still proudly a segregated, Christian-whites-only community and has been that way since its founding. She reminded me that back when former Chief Justice Rehnquist was appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court, he had a racial and religious deed covenant on his Phoenix-area home (that it must only be sold to a white Christian family). Rehnquist also had a similar deed covenant on property he later owned in Vermont. (I have since Googled and confirmed this: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE4DC1639F932A3575BC0A960948260) My wife added that such private property deed restrictions/covenants have been tested in our courts and ruled illegal by the U.S. Supreme Court in the late 1940s. Not withstanding, those "good" folks in and around Utopia have placed similar racially and religiously restrictive deed covenants on all their private property. It was good enough for Rehnquist and remains good enough for them.

The hill country of southern Texas is full of natural beauty....crystal clear rivers, heavy forestation, plentiful wildlife (especially deer), but I felt as if I had somehow been time-warped back about 50 or so years while I was there. I find it almost unbelievable that such blatant racism and religious intolerance can still be condoned and actually thriving within portions of our country. -- Michael

[hayu_lol]

26. Orangepeel...those were my thoughts as well...

Move the dual lists into a museum, connect them with an historic plaque explaining that this was the world in 1944 and that that world has changed and is continuing to change. Educational--you bet.

[saigon68]

27. WELCOME HOME

Good to have you here :-) :-)

[Robeson]

30. GREAT POST. Thanks for this....

...:thumbsup: :kick:

[Bucky]

32. Kicked and recommended sub-thread. Michael,, thanks for posting this reminder

and welcome to DU

[theHandpuppet]

29. How about honoring THIS Taylor County veteran?

Yes, this is a story of how one "colored" Taylor County veteran was treated upon his return form the war: http://www.rootsweb.com/~gataylor/afroam.htm

To Honor and Remember
MACEO SNIPES
March 28, 1900 - July 20, 1946
Maceo Snipes, a black man, served in the U.S. Army during World War II and was honorably discharged with decorations.
Upon returning to his home in Georgia, Maceo Snipes chose to exercise his right to vote. The next day he was shot and killed. Lynched, at his mother's hosue in Rupert Georgia.
A sign posted at a black church read. "The first N----R to vote will never vote again.".
We dedicate this plaque to his memory and to the memory of all those who were lynched in the struggle for Freedom.
This 16th day of September 2000

In remembering this terrible event, may we continue to work together as human beings regardless of race.
The following morning he was sitting on his porch and four white man came up and killed him with a shotgun in front of his mother.
His funeral was held the next day and in the midst of the funeral oration, Maceo’s mother rose and moved up through the crowd, up to his coffin, where they waited to lower it into the earth. And she asked her second son to come forth. He was 17. And she said to him: “Put your hand on this coffin, and swear on the body of your brother that when you get to be 21, you’re going down to the courthouse to do what he did-to vote.”
The men were found not guilty by reason of self-defense. The Snipes family moved to Ohio.

[Catch22Dem]

33. This is pre-civil rights movement, the solution is simple

Replace it with a list that combines the names.

[UTUSN]

34. K&R for outrageous. Historical or not, it could have been fixed before this

Plus, "...unlawful for people to ''mutilate, deface, defile, or abuse'' public monuments honoring servicemembers."

It's EXISTENCE is mutilation, defacement, defilement, abuse.

[niallmac]

35. I say go for it Georgia...

Show me the breakdown of soldiers we send off to war.
Show me how many minorities serve relative to the rest of the population.
Show me how many rich kids serve.
Show me how we send off our lower middle class and our minorities to implement
the whims of the white legislature and the interests of big oil and corportate America.

Show me that and I will argue that those who serve, all who serve, deserve a controlling interest in our
oil industry. They die for our oil and they get a medal and VA budget cuts. I'll solve the broken promises
given to our vets. Actually, Shell and Exxon will take care of it.

[jody]

36. Butler's a very poor town of about 2,000. While some might find the plaque offensive, IMO it's a

constant reminder of how far we've come since President Truman, a Democrat, desegregated our military forces.

Aren't reminders like that effective, e.g. the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum?

[krispos42]

37. Time for an integrated list and an astrick

Pry off the old list find a new home for it in a museum. There has to be one someplace, perhaps a civil rights museum. Replace it with an identical-looking integrated list, and note on the bottom of the new plaque that the old, segregated list was moved to The National Museum of Stupid Prejudiced Ideas.

Man, even brothers-in-arms dying in a great global struggle have to go to White Heaven and Colored Heaven.

[kdpeters]

39. I'm so embarrassed

That's my home state. Sometimes it's impossible to defend my people, but I really do expect better of them. That's why I'm moving back. They're capable of better, but if all of us who care keep moving out, who will challenge them? Who will make them think? San Francisco has made this queer native son defiantly proud of himself, but I just can't call it 'home'. But thanks to this fine city, I can go home, where I belong, and never let anyone tell me I don't.