Outrage at London sting by US spies

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=415889&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Undercover American agents are staging secret 'sting' operations in Britain against criminal and terrorist suspects they want to extradite to the US.

• Comment: Beware: George Bush's secret agents can now arrrest us in our own country

In a recent operation, agents from America's Department of Homeland Security set up a suspect by posing as dealers wanting to illegally sell night-vision goggles for export to Iran.

The spies arranged a series of clandestine meetings in London hotels, which they secretly filmed as evidence. It is thought to be the first time American agents have been caught using such sting tactics in Britain.

Urgent questions were being asked about whether the British Government had been aware of the operation. If so, it raises issues of the State collaborating with foreign agencies to entrap suspects - and if not it raises the spectre of American spies working unchecked on British soil.

[aquart]

1. Sure does.

I suggest you just throw them in jail and then toss 'em out of your country. Is torture legal over at your place?

[williesgirl]

2. Here we go again but this time, they better watch their step - oversight coming!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

3. Got mine at Ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Night-Vision-Binocular-with-protection-system_W0QQitemZ260048488403QQihZ016QQcategoryZ10955QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[BulletproofLandshark]

4. If another nation's spies were working over here

w/out the knowledge of our government, some people might consider that an act of war.

[Pavulon]

They are called diplomats

they have been spying under diplomatic cover for ages. since there were kings in Europe, since the birth of the us.

spies spy that is their job.

[BulletproofLandshark]

7. True

That sure doesn't make it right

[ooglymoogly]

16. spying is one thing setting up a sting operation

and forcibly spiriting people away is quite another

[Pavulon]

18. I agree

but it is old hat. Every intelligence community has done this. From iran trying to kill the Capitan of the ship that shot down an airliner to the russians in the cold war.

It is not right but every country has agents that operate beyond the law, and in the dark to the rest of us.

[savemefromdumbya]

12. oh they are already

this country is full of them, govt turns a blind eye

[rodeodance]

5. this gives new meaning to 'globalization

[Vorta]

6. Entrap?

Does that have a different definition in England? It would be very difficult to "entrap" a person to illegally purchase night vision goggles for export to Iran. An innocent person wouldn't have the slightest idea how to get them there or where to find a buyer. Would he?

[daleo]

10. The idea of entrapment

As I understand it, is to entice someone into a crime that they had no particular inclination to commit.

So, you could entrap someone by saying (for example) "I will give you 1 million dollars for 1000 night vision goggles" to someone who didn't normally deal in such things. But the money might get him thinking, "this isn't such a bad idea, since that guy made the offer". Then the cops spring the trap, but the crime was essentially of their own invention.

[Vorta]

15. I thought the US agents were _selling_ the goggles.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. An innocent person could easily know how to commit a crime

You, for instance, know how to shoplift. Just because you know how to break the law, that doesn't mean you're not innocent. If the US officials initiated the idea of taking the goggles to Iran, they have clearly entrapped the man.

[Vorta]

21. Let's just go to the definition

ENTRAPMENT - A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. That would appear to be an American definition

so may not be much use here. But the question would be whether it was just an 'opportunity' to commit that crime that was offered, or if the man had no previous intent. In this particular case, the man has no criminal record, and claims he has no terrorist connections (though the US has claimed he does). I would think in the US they'd have to prove a 'previous intent' (though, of course, with no writ of habeas corpus for foreigners any more, they can lock him up indefinitely as soon as they have custody, without the bother of proving anything in a trial), which would seem to mean proving those 'terrorist connections'.

Here's a British page on entrapment:

Entrapment occurs when an agent of the state - usually a law enforcement officer or a controlled informer - causes someone to commit an offence so that the latter should be prosecuted.

Entrapment is not a substantive defence in the sense of providing a ground upon which the accused is entitled to an acquittal. That is, you cannot use it as a get-out-free card defence.

The court has jurisdiction in a case of entrapment to stay the prosecution on the ground that the integrity of the criminal justice system would be compromised by allowing the state to punish someone whom the state itself has caused to transgress.

Although the court has a discretion under section 78 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 to exclude evidence on the ground that its admission would have an adverse effect on the fairness of the proceedings, the exclusion of evidence is not an appropriate response to entrapment. The question is not whether the proceedings would be a fair determination of guilt but whether they should have been brought at all.

http://www.freebeagles.org/articles/entrapment.html

So in British law, the point is that entrapment is bad for the legal system - because it causes a crime to be committed that otherwise wouldn't have happened. Now, these US agents aren't actually agents of the British state; so you could say it wasn't entrapment by the state, but a criminal conspiracy by the US agents and the accused. So the US agents are also suspects, who ought to be prosecuted as well.

[Vorta]

23. I did ask if the English definition differed.

IN any event I wouldn't expect to the the American agents prosecuted. Through some prior arrangement the whole thing will go away.

[farmbo]

8. Looking for traitors dealing with Iran? Look no further than Cheney's Halliburton!

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/16/1533207

[Supersedeas]

29. A sting of Halliburton....not on Cheney's watch

[madrchsod]

9. why do`t the iranian army just buy them from russia?

it sounds like a really bad movie plot...

anyone can buy them here in the usa
http://night-vision.binoculars.com/?gclid=CImBh8K_wIgCFR1sWAod5monKg
Binoculars.com - Night Vision

http://www.nightvisionstore.com/
The Night Vision Store for Homeland Security and Sport---homeland security gear---

http://nightvision4less.com/
Nightvision4less - Night Vision Goggles, Binoculars, Scopes.

[bemildred]

11. Actually, I believe Iran buys them from the UK already.

Legally, I mean. I remember a story about some being stopped in Bulgaria or some place earlier this year, on their way to Iran.

[CJCRANE]

13. Probably sold on the "grey market"

using middle-men and legal loopholes.

[tabasco]

27. There are different "generations" of technology.

I think we had second generation when I left active duty in 1995.

Now it's third generation.

First generation stuff is readily available at surplus stores and ebay.

[CJCRANE]

14. These "stings" are a great way

to keep the terror arrest stories coming.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

17. The moral equivalent of the U-2 overflights in Russia

All it took was one capture and trial to end that. Let's see if Britain has the same moxie as the old Soviet.

I'm betting they don't have the balls to stop it.

[wholetruth00]

19. There are no more "sovereign nations" except the US. We disrespect and dishonor

those we want to including allies.

[kestrel91316]

24. Turnabout's fair play, I wonder when some courageous soul will

make * the target of a sting and whisk HIM away to their equivalent of Gitmo..............

A girl can dream, after all........

[cassiepriam]

25. Bush rules the world, didn't you know?

Well he did until this week that is.

[legin]

26. The Department of Homeland Security working abroard

Whilst unfortunaltly logical, is not something I like at all.

'The Department of Homeland Security, the world's police force'.

[KansDem]

28. Whatever happened to the "English-speaking, white-guys" treaty?

I thought there was a treaty signed by the United States, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand that prohibits these countries from spying on each other without proper notification. Has this treaty also been scrapped by the Bushistas?

[pinniped]

30. They should just set up people....

who remove those mattress warning tags.

[pitohui]

31. well we're never happy are we?

if we don't want racial profiling, and we don't, if we don't want everyone being hassled with a stupid-ass liquids ban at the airport and we don't, we are going to have to support covert (undercover) operations to entrap bad guys before they can do something really bad

sorry, i don't CARE how much you offer me, i'm not gonna suddenly think selling military equip to iran is a good idea

yes, i was a victim of an entrapment scheme for drugs in the early 90s, and you know what? the scheme didn't go too far, because i just refused to be interested in the offer to set me up as a drug distributor, for some reason, no matter how much money they said i could make and how legal they said it was because of some canadian backer's legal bullshit, i knew it wasn't legal to distribute drugs in my parish or in my state or in the usa

don't let your mind be turned around by the dollar bill and you won't be entrapped 99.9 percent of the time

when they see you are just not money oriented, they will lose interest and go on to an easier victim