Breaking: Al Gore to Endorse Howard Dean on Tuesday (CNN)

[TheWebHead]

[Raenelle]

1. This is a big endorsement. Al Gore has credibility with Dems.

[tonyv751]

245. True Dem but...

I am a true blue Dem that voted for Al Gore in 2000, but today I have lost all respect for the man and I would vote for any other Dem over him in a heart beat. Its not about Dean its about the voters. Let them decide before someone like Gore comes in and tries to manipulate primaries before they are even started.

And about Gore's "He's the only anti-war candidate..." statement. yeah he looked at all the candidates long and hard. BS.

The Clintons took the higher ground and said they aren't endorsing anyone.

[cosmicdot]

261. endorsements are nothing new in politics

how can a yellow dog Dem lose all respect for Al Gore in a heart beat?

that just doesn't make sense

[goobergunch]

2. w00t w00t w00t w00t!

:party: :bounce: :toast: *insert more ecstatic emoticons here*

[elcondor]

3. Could someone provide more info?

Like, who said this? I thought Gore said he wasn't going to endorse anyone "for a while."

[Merlin]

WOW !!! IT'S ALL OVER!!!

Congratulations Howard. Ladies and Gentlemen, we have our nominee.

We also have our VP, who will undoubtedly be Wes.

Dean/Clark.

I can definitely live with that.

As to the Bushies: BRING EM ON!!!!!

[hlthe2b]

73. God, I hope Clark is the VP nominee

I like Dean, but I really think Clark has what it takes to demolish the right wing's ploys...

[truthseeker1]

116. I agree

I think Clark will be a more formidable candidate going up against Bush, and as ideal as a Clark/Dean or Dean/Clark ticket sounds, I just can't picture those two boys playing very nicely together.

[janx]

128. Why not? Their views are very similar and they like and

respect eachother.

[DemVet]

90. NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING OVER!

It's all about who Bill Clinton will endorse.

[KaraokeKarlton]

113. Clinton has said he isn't endorsing anyone in the primaries

Same for Hillary. Gore came out awhile back saying that he would be endorsing someone. I think Gore really had to endorse someone else to send a clear message to those who are still trying to draft him. Those people are going to be really upset over this, but I think Gore had to do this because it didn't matter how many times he said he wasn't running, they just didn't want to accept it. I suspected all along he would endorse Dean, now I just hope the Draft Gore people will respect Gore's wishes and join him in campaigning for Dean. Gore will be, I'm sure. Even though those who supported a Draft can't campaign FOR Gore, at least they can campaign WITH him.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

192. Yes and Gore said the same.

Truth is I'll vote for whoever gets the Democratic nomination. But as a Clark supporter I worry that Dean may be McGovernized.

I hope I'm wrong about this but I was right about another prediction. Remember when Kerry said, "Who though Bush would fuck up in Iraq so badly?" I for one did.

[alittlelark]

235. That would be great

but who would be the one that dealt with foreign affairs - arguably our biggest issue...CLARK, right? Who will be the one that evaluates the military contracts. CLARK, right (the one who eshewes big name corporations). Who will be the one that envigorates the HUGE numbers of those scared southern democrats who don't vote? Perhaps...definately CLARK.

Who will be the one that brings the UN into Iraq....just guess (perhaps the ex-nato commander).

Second best is alright..I'm desperate. But I would prefer the real thing

PS Donated $200 to Dean 3+/- mos ago. Donated $200 to Clark recently.

[wryter2000]

4. Anyone know what time?

I'll be drinking a :beer: and having a :party:.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[deutsey]

5. Rarely does my jaw drop when I read something here

But reading this made me go :wow: .

Is this confirmed?

[Jerseycoa]

6. It's confirmed

Congratulations to you all.

:toast:

[kysrsoze]

61. Same to you - I'm sure Clark will also be on the ballot

You can't stop that kind of ticket.

[IndianaGreen]

185. A Dean/Clark ticket would be Bush's worst nightmare

I just got home and heard the news. This is great news! Let's see what the voters have to say, for they are the final arbiter.

[alittlelark]

236. Is it??

I thought My president (Gore) was a bit less hasty

[Just Me]

7. WOOO HOOO!!!

Watch out Cowboy Bush,...here we come,...and we will run faster/harder/longer in our tennies than you can your stupid ole' boots!!! Hee hee hee,...Ooooo, be afraid,...be very afraid,...heh, heh, heh,...yup, I am giddy *grin*.

[LiberalFighter]

154. You forgot a goodie

Besides bush monkey having to watch out... what about cheney's reaction??? Heart attack/seizure/stroke whatever or just decide to bail out

[PennyLane]

233. Poor Dick!

His ticker just couldn't take it!O8)

[Purveyor]

226. Watch out Cowboy Bush...

Watch out Cowboy Bush,...here we come,...and we will run faster/harder/longer in our tennies than you can your stupid ole' boots!!! Hee hee hee,...Ooooo, be afraid,...be very afraid,...heh, heh, heh,...yup, I am giddy *grin*.

I like your attitude...

March on, rally and support the cause!!!

The real winner of 2000 has selected his surrogate...

[DancingBear]

8. That's TWO jaws dropping!!

WOW!!!!!!!

[neuvocat]

10. And counting...

[Demobrat]

14. And another one on the floor.

WOW!

[Endangered Specie]

129. Bang!, there goes yet another jaw

I would have bet good money he would have endorsed Clark or Gep. not Dean.


But anyhow, it just goes to show you, Dean is the man with the plan.

Yes, Clark for VP, and Edwards for attorney general.

[LiberalFighter]

168. Clark maybe but not Gephardt

Review history.

When was the last time that a candidate won election that was only a Congressman?

Bush Monkey = Gov
Clinton = Gov
Bush Spy = VP
Reagan = Gov
Carter = Gov
Nixon = VP Senator
Johnson = VP Senator
Kennedy = Senator War hero
Eisenhower = Supreme Commander WWII NATO Supreme command
Truman = VP Senator Reducing war dept waste
FDR = Gov
Hoover = Secty of Commerce Food Admin Head
Coolidge = Gov
Harding = Senator
Wilson = Gov
Taft = Secretary of War
Roosevelt = Gov War hero
McKinley = Gov
Cleveland = Gov
Harrison = Senator
Arthur = VP
Garfield = Congress Civil War hero
Hayes = Gov
Grant = Civil War General
Johnson = VP Senator
Lincoln = Black Hawk War
Buchanan = Minister to Britain Secty of State Senator Minister to Russia
Pierce = Mexican War Senator
Fillmore = VP
Taylor = Career Army General Mexican War
Polk = Gov
Tyler = VP Senator Gov

[truthseeker1]

213. Hey, thanks LiberalFighter

for that list. Great reference. I'm copying and pasting :-)

[goobergunch]

9. LINK

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/12/08/national1648EST0668.DTL

[Gman]

11. Hmmm...

Maybe Dean is willing to start playing ball with the party. I've got to hear what Gore has to say.

[madrchsod]

12. wow i haven`t heard that

boy am i behind the curve

[Cappurr]

13. Holy Shit

(Probably just broke a rule :evilgrin: ) I saw the announcement on CNN and I was really surprised. The funny thing is, that I became a "Deanie" about a week ago. I was wavering....thinking that Wes Clark was the one, but after watching Dean in a couple of later debates and in particular his appearance on "Hardball" I concluded that, God help us, Dean is the guy. I STILL worry about the "electability" issue, but I've come to realize being timid hasn't gotten us anything but a Repug majority. And now that Gore (who I absolutely admire to the max) is supporting him....I feel great.

[ACPS65]

15. Unelectable.

See you in 08.

[Ripley]

17. Nice try.

Only Smirk is electable? Maybe you should look at the polls as of late.

[janx]

65. See you sooner than you think! LOL!

See you UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL very soon!

[Just Me]

115. don't fret over what could be a break from history,...

,...which only repeats itself if we do the same thing over and over again. What I hope to see, however, is a total break from the "perceived" Bush-bashing and a strong counter-offense hammer to the neo-con mantras. For example, if we really want security, we better stop pounding puny countries with no demonstrable WMDs and start taking those hundreds of billions of dollars and investing them to both secure and strengthen the homefront. You, know,...stuff like that,...stuff that is more real.

[davhill]

122. You mean for Dean's reelection, don't you? n/t

[GalleryGod]

138. Roger,That.

Fall back and Save Your Local Congressman!

[truthisfreedom]

174. hahahahahahahahahaha.

bush wasn't elected. he's the one that is unelectable. he couldn't even GET elected president... he had to have his daddy's friends screw with the process to shoe-horn him in. when bush loses in 2004, he will NEVER HAVE BEEN ELECTED PRESIDENT. however, he will have run our country into a ditch that a Democrat will have to drive us out of.

[alittlelark]

238. Hope you are wrong

but have the same feeling

[alittlelark]

239. When the other shoe drops

We'll see who the cowardly turn to.

[PaDUer]

241. go back

and don't look for trouble here.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

16. Congratulations to Dean and His Supporters!

I hope you'll excuse me, however, if I'm feeling a little queasy.

DTH, Still a Proud Clark Supporter

[Cappurr]

20. I know DTH

I was with you until about a week ago. Frankly, I haven't been all that impressed with Wes's performances (although I realize he is a "newbie" at this game and Dean was pretty raw in the beginning too).

Wes is on Hardball tonight. Well see how he does.

But I really do thing that Dean is the one. Took me long enough. lol

[DoveTurnedHawk]

28. Personally, I Think Clark Has Kicked Ass Lately

But obviously YMMV. :-)

I am still utterly convinced Clark will have a better shot against Bush than Dean. Unfortunately, Clark first has to go through Dean to get the nomination.

If Dean ends up winning the nomination, I will work my ass off for him unless he went nuclear against Clark.

But I will still reserve the right to say, "I told you so," if Dean gets demolished in the general election. ;-)

DTH

[DancingBear]

48. Couldn't have said it any better

"If Dean ends up winning the nomination, I will work my ass off for him unless he went nuclear against Clark.

But I will still reserve the right to say, "I told you so," if Dean gets demolished in the general election. "

[David Zephyr]

77. You're A Good Man, Charlie Brown.

:hi:

[LiberalFighter]

172. Part of the nomination process

is who the VP nominee will be.

That wasn't as important in previous years but with Quayle and Cheney it has become more important IMO.

Usually, the VP was selected more along the line of geographic then anything else. So instead of using that criteria to obtain votes his military record should be a benefit and a wedge the repugs will find hard to use.

[sendero]

250. as long as you'll respect my right...

... to say "I told you so" when he wins.

[Khephra]

31. DoveTurnedHawk

I've disagreed with much of what you've said about Dean, but you're a class-number-1 DUer in my book for your post!

:toast:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

37. What Do You Expect From a Fellow Angel/Comics/Gaming Fan?

:-)

Congratulations again! But GOD did it hurt to read that news! ;-)

DTH

[Khephra]

50. I can imagine

I still think a Dean/Clark ticket would kick major ass, if that helps at all?

:-)

[David Zephyr]

84. It Will Kick Ass.

It's the best team the Democratic Party can present to the voters who are still feel "security" challenged.

[goobergunch]

93. I concur. (n/t)

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tinnypriv]

44. Classy

:thumbsup:

[MODemocrat]

85. I also love Clark

Clark/Dean or Dean/Clark; it doesn't matter because it is absolutely
an unbeatable ticket.:thumbsup: :dem: :grouphug:

[davidinalameda]

153. lead story on NBC

wow

I'm shocked

I can't see anyway Dean can lose the nomination.

I'm simply amazed.

[maxanne]

155. DoveTurnedHawk

you're a class act! :thumbsup:

[Hawkeye-X]

165. You were once a Dean supporter

we can *still* welcome you back to the camp.. and I still support and respect Clark if he gets the nomination or inserted into the Dean/Clark ticket..

I'm just tickled pink tonight. I've had a great week in the past week with wonderful endorsement, and the bombshell tonight has just made me want to :party: !!!!

Hawkeye-X

[jenk]

18. gore will then travel to Iowa with Dean

who knows

Dean/Gore ticket???

I don't know whether I should be really happy or really worried?

will the Clinton's follow with endorsements for Dean?

if we can all get behind dean, then we have a shot, but it's hard for me to see this party uniting.

[grasswire]

19. oh brother

I'm disappointed.

But I guess this is Gore's slap at the Clintons.

[Raenelle]

30. It's also a slap at Lieberman--well-deserved IMO

[Larkspur]

36. Agree

This Connecticut voter can't wait for Lieberman to pull out of the Prez race.

[PaDUer]

72. And I

concur! Holy Joe bites the dust.

[truthseeker1]

120. You're RIGHT!

I hadn't thought of that, but you're sooo right.
:7

[w13rd0]

21. I don't think Gore wants to be VP...

...I think he might be eyeing a post as head of the DNC though, and from his speeches and actions the last three years, I'd be in full support of it. This could be a teutonic shift in the Democratic party...

[David__77]

25. Ha! I think you mean "tectonic!"

I think "Teutonic" ideology is more indicative of the Republicans!

[AngryAmish]

160. You beat me to the punch

Anyway, if we all line up behind one candidate, its going to flow. And it will flow. And in January 05, we will have our candidate sworn in.

[LiberalFighter]

178. That is the key. All for one and one for all!!

Dean is a quality candidate and with Clark on board will be super. I am sure there are others that can be part of the Dean ticket just as good.

Personally, I think that Dean/Clark will be a better ticket than a Clark/Dean matchup.

It is just like here in Indiana back in '88 when O'Bannon and Bayh were in the running for Gov. O'Bannon was the more senior and had more experience in the Indiana General Assembly while Bayh had just been elected Secty of State in '86 and been out of the state for many years. O'Bannon stepped aside and agreed to be the Lt Gov on the ticket with Bayh. Bayh served for 2 terms and then O'Bannon was elected to two terms as Gov. That scenario provided Bayh with the opportunity to take back his dad's Senate seat in '98 which otherwise would had gone Republican.

[stlsaxman]

199. And don't forget to VOTE ABSENTEE in '04...

so your vote can be (re)counted!

[Dagaz]

67. hmmm that does make some sense

Dean is going to oust McAulliffe for sure and Gore would be a great high profile leader.

[Chomskyite]

170. Or Secretary of State

n/t

[Politicub]

195. Gore leading the DNC

That's something I never have considered until I read your post. I have to agree that Gore would make a stellar leader of the DNC. I've always supported him, and he would be able to make a large impact in that position. Gore won the popular vote by a clear majority, so that's lot of people who would trust him to lead the country.

[Johnyawl]

22. No...

...Dean/Gore.

It'll be Dean/Clark.

Gore to be SoS
Graham SoD

bush will be retired.

[Hawkeye-X]

167. No.. bush won't be retired... or rather...

be rotting in AdminMax in Florence, Colorado for treason against humanity.

[Cappurr]

24. They will

Herding cats is hard, but there is just too much at stake now. Too much. They HAVE to come together and work together and not let the Repugs play the divide and conquer game.

[Just Me]

27. You don't suppose,....Hillary as VP???

Hmmmm,...I know there has been a lot of talk about a Dean/Clark team. BUT,...with Hillary goin' to the mid-east and all,...do you suppose,....NAW,....

[watercolors]

92. I'm hoping for Hillary as VP!

nt

[DakotaDemocrat]

35. Have former VPs and Prez's...

...endorsed people within their party this early? Or it all? I think people are so off guard about it is becuase it doesn't happen very often...

Nonetheless, big congratulations Deaniacs. To celebrate, why not watch Clark on Hardball tonight?

[jeffrey_X]

89. Serious and simple question

How can you NOT unite when the ultimate goal is to get shithead out of office??

Am I being too simplistic? I mean if my guy (Clark, Dean, Kerry, etc.) doesn't win, how can I not back the winning guy if it means getting rid of bush??

[GalleryGod]

142. Pull Up Your Pants! Your Naivete Is Hanging OuT!

Oh, Yeah! The Clinton's are next! And you know what?:crazy:
Then JFK and FDR and Harry Truman are going to endorse him TOO:wtf:

[TacticalPeek]

23. hmmmmm...

Methinks he should have continued cutting bait.

Just the same, congrats to Dean.

[ariesgem]

26. YES!!!!!!

Congratulations to Governor Dean. He's earned it! :bounce:

[DjTj]

29. Hopefully...

...Gore won't cost the Dems two elections in a row.

This move really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Why would Gore decide not to run but want to get so involved by making an early endorsement? Why not let the primary voters decide? Hopefully he'll explain it better tonight.

[Larkspur]

32. I think Gore knows how bad things really are and wants to get a Dem

nominee quickly so that that nominee has time to create a formidable machine against the Bush-Rove one. Dean is the only Dem candidate running who "gets it" about Bush and has developed an organization that has any hope of defeating Bush. Clark's organization is poor because he entered the race too late.

[DjTj]

43. That makes some sense to me...

...but I never thought the Dem party was so desparate. I still believe that any number of candidates could defeat Bush and would've liked to see the primary season work it all out.

I suppose it's Gore's prerogative to do what he wants. I sincerely hope that he's right about this...

[Just Me]

101. It's not desperation - IT'S OFFENSE -

,...the sooner the party chooses,...the more time for a strong offensive campaign (I've been writing to the democrat representatives about this for months). Although I genuinely respect all the candidates (and would support any nominee against BuSH*T), and totally believe any one of them would better serve our country than the Bush regime,...Dean has inspired the disillusioned, disenchanted, disgusted and newbies. His base is very, very broad and, although "progressive", he is nowhere near far left and notably more fiscally conservative that what is presently in office. I just think that we want to launch a campaign that isn't merely a weeny winning battle,...but rather a united strategy to win the war for our people.

[LiberalFighter]

184. And financially

Meaning that campaign contributors now are more inclined to donate to Dean then to the other candidates. That will offset the monkey's advantage of all the repugs donating to him.

Dean's strategy of getting 2 million supporters contributing on average a $100 each will become more of a reality from this point on.

[sendero]

251. good post...

... good points I hadn't considered.

Yes, this endorsement is good for all Democrats IMHO...

[batesboys]

39. I'm with you

Pray this does not lead to another loss for us. At least we will probably get rid of Terry Mac.

[LosinIt]

108. Hold on a minute, Gore WON, don't forget that

I get so sick of hearing how Gore lost the election.

[TacticalPeek]

45. "doesn't make a whole lot of sense"

Three possibilities:

1. Selfless, altruistic effort in what he thinks is the party's best interest.

2. He expects or wants something that could issue from Dean getting the nod.

3. I'm having an uncomfortable dream.


Gore has every right to endorse or not any candidate he chooses, obviously. But to do so this early, before any poll of caucus or primary, is unseemly in this respect: with Dean enjoying the perceived lead he has, this is, logically, aimed at trying to forestall other candidates, which (so early) could be considered as stacking the deck.

[kysrsoze]

69. Yeah, I think he wants to get us out of all the inter-party bickering

and get everyone focused on the election itself. His endorsement lends major creedence to Dean - show that he isn't nearly as leftist as portrayed and that he has the support of the general Democratic Party - screw the DNC.

I ultimately believe this is what Gore wants - an outsider who is going to go in there and stir things up. You wouldn't get that from a number of the other candidates. We need some radical change quickly and Dean is the one with momentum. Very soon it'll be time for the other candidates to lend their support. Of course, Holy Joe probably won't do it.

[SayitAintSo]

198. A 4th or 5th possibility ..... ?

4) He wants to be VP <again> ? :)

5) He f'ed up .... (as Kerry would say) :)

I don't think this bodes well for us - regardless of your side of the fence ....

[bushisanidiot]

95. Gore "Cost The Dems" an election? Uh.. he WON!

"Why not let the primary voters decide?"

Uh.. we are not repukes. We, the voters, decide who will win the primary, not anyone else. The repukes follow their leaders like sheep off a cliff. We THINK, then decide.

I was for Dean anyway, but IMHO, Al's endorsement is a huge gain for Dean.

[Politicub]

201. Gore didn't "cost" us anything

Gore won the popular vote. Bush was installed by judicial fiat. Go peddle your garbage somewhere else.

[Gman]

33. We tried the progressive/moderate ticket

(i.e. Dean/Clark) in '88 with Dukakis/Bentson. Actually, that was a progressive/conservative ticket with a Northeastern candidate and a southern VP candidate. Gore ran that year too. Didn't work then. I've no reason to think it will work next year.

But, it's all about marketing. The Dukakis people did a piss poor job. Maybe next year will be different.

[DancingBear]

42. Sad to say, I agree you with Gman

We just had the duly-elected president endorse a candidate, but I am very sad today.

I think of my friend Scott, and the thousands uopn thousands of ex-military/repugs/conservatives who would have voted for Clark, but now will sadly hold their noses and re-elect *.

I hope with every fiber of my being that I am wrong, and that Wes (or Dean) can pull it out. But this one hurts.

[dansolo]

97. If they do then they deserve what they get

If the military people aren't paying attention to how much Bush is fucking them over, then they deserve the shitty VA benefits and nonexistant hazard pay and continual deployments.

[LiberalFighter]

188. But it is also up to all of us to educate those military people

Those near military bases should have bumper stickers or signs in the back of their windows asking how they were treated by Rummy and Bush. Remind the those in the Reserves.

[Piperay]

100. I agree, now

we are doomed for sure. :cry:

[Just Me]

124. I am surrounded by military/repubs and they are saying,...

,...this administration is greedy and deceptive. They are wishing another republican would run because they can't tolerate the neo-con machine,...

I dunno,...I am sure the circles are far bigger than mine,...but, I work diligently to listen to a very broad audience,...

,...I just don't think there are the "adherents" to parties that there used to be (perhaps a reflection that we Americans are progessing and becoming more educated and aware, a very good thing).

I guess I have more confidence in the American people than that of others.

[milkyway]

34. The race is effectively over. This is just what Dean needed.

The single most important thing that needs to happen for Dean to beat the chimp is that he needs to wrap up the nomination early so that he and his campaign can transform the Democratic Party from the ground up. The merging of the two different cultures (Dean's grassroots campaign based on the Internet, meetups, house parties, etc. and the traditional Dem Party) is going to take time. But the new Dem party to evolve from this will be a lot stronger than the one we have now. Having the rest of the party coalesce around the Dean campaign will take time, and President Gore's endorsement will go a long way in winning the nomination early and giving us that time.

A new day is dawning in America. Start counting, shrub, cause your days are numbered.

[GainesT1958]

53. Uh...how can the race by "effectively over"...

When not a single vote has been cast? :wtf:

Not over by a LOOOOONG shot!:kick:

B-)

[milkyway]

66. I didn't mean to disparage other candidates, but...

With Dean and his campaign taking over the building in Florida on Saturday with a goosebump-inducing speech, and now Gore's endorsement giving him the backing of a good chunk of the Dem establishment, it would take an act of God to keep Dean from the nomination. The bottom candidates should drop out now, and the others need to know when it's time to let the party unite behind Dean (the day after the South Carolina primary, perhaps?).

[GalleryGod]

144. Well You Know,Gaines...Why Should We Bother To VOTE When There's Kool Aid

for Everybody...Shoot! I'd flunk have these naieve children right out of 101 if they ever uttered this nonsense in class.

Your Man in the Faculty Lounge,
GG

[Khephra]

166. I think you mean "half" and not "have"

And "naive" instead of "naieve".

Please tell me what school it is that you teach at. I want to make sure none of my children go there.

Talk about flunking.

[truthseeker1]

215. LOL

:thumbsup:
I was thinking the same thing!

[w4rma]

253. milkyway is picking up on clues you are missing, GalleryGod

I hope you wouldn't fail students for being able to pick up on these clues.

[candy331]

54. Milkyway I agree

with you. We have to unite early to form a formidable wall against the repugs. Their strategy was to throw pot shots and try to control the agenda and maneuver the party into a position they chose. I'm glad Gore came on board, I'm sure it took some doing from the Dean campaign.

"United we stand divided we fall"

[Hoppin_Mad]

38. Wow ! I would have guessed Gebhardt - Good going Al !

nt

[Larkspur]

40. Gore also gives Dean someone who knows how Congress works

Gore doesn't have to be Dean's VP but Gore's experience in Congress and as VP & Clinton's partner-in-chief for 8 years will help Dean prepare for the White House and how to reshape Congress into more of a Democratic/progressive bent from the Reichwing bend it's in now.

This is awesome news! I listend to Gore's 2 MoveOn.org speeches and knew at the last one that he had definitely started backing Dean, at least in philosophy.

[Debi]

41. This ought to make the Debate interesting..

While his opponents are attacking him he can respond with..."Well, Al Gore agrees with me"!

[Larkspur]

46. Especially if Lieberman attacks Dean

Gov will say, "Senator Lieberman, the top half of the 2000 Prez ticket is WITH ME, not you!"

Wonder of Al's $7 million Prez campaign fund will go to Dean? What happens to left over Prez campaign funds?

[TacticalPeek]

49. LOL! Like Dean is worried over Holy Joe.

Ammo vs. Joe is of nonexistent value. This is aimed at some other candidate(s).

[Larkspur]

78. Actually it's aimed at Al From, CEO of the DLC

Al From hates Al Gore. He also hates Howard Dean.

The only candidates who will lose with Gore's endorsement are the DLC clones -- Lieberman, Kerry, and Edwards. Gephardt loses also since he supported Bush's war after Gore warned against it. If Clark is a DLC wannabe, then Gore's endorsement of Dean hurts him also.

Clark is also a civilian political newbie and is way out of his league against the Bush-Rove machine. Clark would stumble or fail to respond at critical times against the Bush-Rove machine. Also Clark taking FEC matching funds for the primaries leaves him wide open to attack from Bush-Rove between March and August when Clark, should he prevail, won't have enough funds to campaign.

[TacticalPeek]

126. Admittedly, the funding thing could be a concern, a la Bob Dole.

But with all the 'outside' dough revving up on the sidelines, this road is different than the one Dole straggled down.

Neverthless, I'm still pissed at Gore's king-maker move. He should have waited until at least SOME votes were actually COUNTED (?!). It looks like he lacks trust in us out here in democracy's peanut gallery.

[duvinnie]

137. Im surprised too

I thought someone of his standing would keep his cards closer to the vest.
But...these are not normal times. When was the last time 3 major unions
endorsed any candidate months BEFORE the first primary caucus?
Methinks a lot of core dems are extremely concerned about 04 and realize
what a monumental task it is to fight the * machine.

[TacticalPeek]

225. "the last time 3 major unions endorsed any candidate months BEFORE"

IIRC, that would be Mondale.

Unfortunately.

[jmaier]

230. WTF

"Clark would stumble or fail to respond at critical times against the Bush-Rove machine."

I'd like to see some evidence for this silly assertion. Wes Clark has been pretty much kicking ass in both defense & offense via the Bush/Rove/Cheney machine.

[newsjunkie]

47. THATS WONDERFUL!!!

:wow: I love Gore...always have. Very proud to say Ive voted for him 3 times. He is making the right choice. Dean is the one running with the most political good sense and courage to beat that nasty chimp.
:bounce:

[kodi]

51. good news for dean and gore's revenge on the dlc who screwed him

look, gore would have ran in 2004 but the dlc types and party moderates, esp. liberman, sens. breaux of louisiana and baucas (sp) of montana said some awful nasty shit about gore in 2001-2. they made it clear that they wanted someone else, more moderate and less likely to incite a grass roots populist movement that gore was starting to kindle at the end of his 2000 campaign.

such a movement would have undercut the corporate power brokers in the party.

the dlc types thought that they had headed off such a movement, but then dean arrived and did exactly what gore was planning to instigate.

so the dem dlc and moderate wing got what they wanted, initially, but got worse than they thought eventually.

they were too cute by half and disregarded ole' granda's wisdom..." better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

there are a lot of us al gore supporters who consider both dean and clark very acceptable, if gore supports dean, so do i.

a dean clark ticket is good, a dean gepthart ticket is a better administration all the way around.

[karlschneider]

52. Well, whatever else it will do, this for sure will change the face of the

D primaries. I haven't thought Dean was the best chance to beat Shrub (NOT the same thing as the best candidate)...I would prefer the unfortunately unelectable Kuchinich's ideas and at times the persona of Wes Clark, but we all have to get behind -someone- at a point. Maybe some crystallization early on is actually the best strategy.

Getting Chimpy out is gonna be a long hard slog no matter who's running against him. But if the guy who actually won the 2000 election has decided on somebody, I have to accept his judgment. JMO.

[janx]

70. I think that's part of Gore's strategy--as I mentioned in

another post.

[mefoolonhill]

71. dean - clark supporters

I notice a number of very nice congratulatory posts on this thread from Clark supporters. Very classy, and much appreciated. I think it shows that we will have a unified party, determined to evict ShrubCo in '04.

[democracy eh]

55. I wish Al would grow the beard again

he looked so distinguished.

I don't doubt it will happen. but at the same time I won't comment until it actually happens,

remember the original source was Fox news. could be corporate news copycatting each other. It ain't for sure until it appears on Dean's web site or happens.

[TacticalPeek]

56. In another thread, newsguyatl sez this was his October surprise,

as confirmed by other DUers who were tipped, but he does not know why it was put off til now.

Interesting delay, eh?

[progressivebydesign]

57. Happy Freakin' Dance here in the Puget Sound!!

Oh yeah! This is SO great! It looks pretty confirmed from what I've read so far. I just remembered to put my Dean sticker on my car today... I'm so glad that Gore is giving the proverbial finger to the Dem corporate whores that are shoving the other candidates down our throats!!

P.S. I have nothing against the other candidates. I just really, really believe in Howard Dean. I happen to like Gephardt, having met him and listened to him speak. I always thought he would be president someday. But Dean is my choice this time.

[0007]

121. PBS just announced that Gore would be pushing Dean

Go Dean go!!

[Catherine Vincent]

58. Okay. So who has Clinton endorsed?

[arcos]

147. he will not endorse anyone...

according to the SFGate article.

[tokenlib]

59. This is SO WRONG!

I've always liked Al Gore--but this is wrong. Before a single vote is cast..before a single caucus is held. Neutrality on the part of elder "statesmen" in the party is respectable. This shows a lack of respect for the process and all of us democrats.

The endorsement parade is somewhat normal--but some people should stay out of it--party chairpeople, "elder statesmen" types--and Gore is one. Lieberman irritates me--but what a horrible slam at him--I feel horrible for him if this is true. Whatever happened to loyalty and respect.

Al is wrong on doing this at this time. He should have stayed neutral.

[janx]

68. While it might seem early, Gore is doing this for a reason.

I think he knows what we're going to be up against (if he wouldn't know, no one would), and he wants to put his strength behind it.

Dean's campaign has been strong in part because it started as early as it did. This kind of strength injected now is going to be a tremendous advantage and keep the momentum going.

C'mon over and join us! What are you waiting for? :hi:

[tokenlib]

87. Some of us would like the chance to vote first! n/t

[goobergunch]

94. Some of us don't have a vote, period

I live in Pennsylvania, which doesn't vote until April. By the time of the Pennsylvania primary, the nomination will have been decided already.

[janx]

119. I live in Colorado, and we don't even get a primary this year.

We have caucuses in April.

[Pale Blue Dot]

133. How does Gore's endorsement prevent anyone from voting?

Really, I've seen this argument in several posts in this thread and I find it patently ridiculous.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pale Blue Dot]

214. .

[Hawkeye-X]

252. Also Gore said this:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?g=events/pl/063003howardean&tmpl=sl&e=1

"And it's slowly beginning to sink in to more and more people out there. And we don't have the luxury of fighting among ourselves to the point where we seriously damage our ability to win on behalf of the American people this time around."

Gore is right. We cannot afford any more divisive fighting and it's time to pare down the candidates and we Democrats have to be united on this fight against the evil, thy name is George W. Bush.

Hawkeye-X

[bushisanidiot]

103. If Gore Waits Until The Primaries To Endorse Someone Then He's Seen As

a bandwagon jumper. Geez, why the hell are people so critical of every little move? If Gore wants to endore Dean it's his right.

[drool_n_yank]

110. theres a right and wrong ? you got to be jokeing

You are actually going to stop and consider ethics or some kind of political traditions when you are talking about fighting Shrub and Co ? nuts . I like most Americans am not a political science major or a lawyer or even a college boy and me and most voters wont stop to analyze what endorsements had the correct political ethics behind them . We have had a wrestler and a movie actor from another country make Governor and I be damned if the voting public will be up in arms because Al Gore endorsed anyone to soon. It seems all to often some big shot or some poll says Dean doesn't have a chance and a month later hes just stronger . Maybe we need some more unconventional tactics and candidates to get these lunatics out office . The idea of being a dignified statesman is crap , the public will be bored with that , you will get a lot more mileage by being a rebel and Kerry on a Harley just ain't gonna cut it as a rebel. Good for Al why should he endorse any phony Democrats who sucked up to Shrub and the GOP. If this is a slap in the face to Lieberman good he needed one. I think most DUer's would agree with that . Most of the other candidates seem jealous of Dean and they should have thought about it some more before endorsing Shrubs policies and war . Maybe Al knows that if not elected the Democratic candidate Howard would do major damage by running independent . No more I'm just like Bush but vote for me instead .

[Just Me]

131. Refreshing reality test,....

,...from you, drool_n_yank!!! Being "noble" is the goal,...BUT, what happens when you are fighting a rule-breaking, vicious opponent. Then, you fight to WIN in order to re-establish the rules. WE ARE FIGHTING PREDATORS!!! They backed us into the corner and we have got to unite to break loose from this ruthless monster in control. Once we tame that monster, we can shoot for that nobility we believe all humanity can exercise. Meanwhile, THIS IS WAR,...and, if we fail to face that reality,...we will cage ourselves into our own "nobility" that predators can control.

[drool_n_yank]

161. I agree Just Me

Being "noble" is the goal , ultimately and that is how I try to conduct myself on a daily basis . When push comes to shove I think that all bets are off and anything goes to get these who dont play by the rules out .

[Cheswick2.0]

171. Speaking as the worlds biggest Gore Fan

I think it is too soon also. It won't make me support Dean automatically, I will continue to consider my options and I still have a lot of interest in Clark.
As for Joe Leiberman. I think there is bad blood between him and Gore and I think it is Joe's Fault. I think Joe was part of the DLC plan to push Gore out of the running. I am sure that had Gore run, Lieberman would not have been his running mate.

[LiberalFighter]

197. And Lieberman was a wimp when a fighter was needed in the Florida recount

[stickdog]

211. Who else would have stay out the endorsement derby?

Just curious.

[stickdog]

212. Who else would you rather stay out the endorsement derby?

Just curious.

[tokenlib]

231. Aside from Gore..Clinton, Carter...

The elder statesmen--former nominees and presidents should stay neutral and above the fray until we have a nominee. It enables them to support the party as a whole--and to be a unifying force when the time comes.

[MarkTwain]

60. Just Plain Wrong....

.... from so many perspectives. (And, as posted in GD.)

And from Gore, no less, who put up the most lackluster and impotent fight in his own ninth inning to take a Presidency which was rightfully his. He is now going to shackle this party with a candidate who will be a non-starter at the gate.

Dean has a snowball's chance in hell of winning the general.

Rove is toasting the potential of a Gore announcment tonight in the den of the cabal. Rove will eat and spit Dean out like a snake does to the carcas of a mouse.

The only one Rove feared was Clark. But we Democrats are either just plain stupid or too righteous and elitist to put up such a man who might actually win back this country for us.

A damn, damn shame. On the Party and on Al Gore.

[Khephra]

63. It sounds like you missed Lieberman slamming Gore

Mutliple times the past year? It's Joe's own fault. He bitched and moaned about the campaign and disagreed with Gore after every speech Gore's held since 2000.

[janx]

76. You sure seem to put a lot of significance into Karl Rove. LOL

You think we're afraid of that doughboy? You think he's a "genius," the way the wingnuts do?

LOL. Just WATCH.

[MarkTwain]

96. No. Not a Genuis, but....

....I know he fights with a tenacity, a vigor, and an evilness which somehow - irrespective of his portly dimensions - finds him managing to prevail. And, if not winning honestly, at least he gets his horse into the winner's circle.

I have watched. For going on a decade now. And Rove has managed to fail George Bush right up to the Presidency of this country.

To ignore him is intellectually dishonest and politically naive. And, it grossly and abjectly ignores the political realities of this country.

Much like both Al Gore and Dr. Dean if they truly believe that Dr. Dean has even a soupcon of a possibility of taking the oath in 2005.

[janx]

117. We're not going to ignore him. (How could we ignore someone

so belligerent?) He gets his horse into the winner's circle, as you say, because he CHEATS.

It's not brains that gets anything anywhere with that guy.

And this time, we're going to have a little fun.

[MarkTwain]

143. Good Luck...

... we'll all need it with Dean, should he be the nominee.

But, it's more important than having fun. It's the next forty years of a SCOTUS which the next president is going to get to stack to his political ideology's advantage.

[GalleryGod]

149. Like the Spring of 1973! Looking Around the Dem HQ for the McGovern Folks

Fall Back and Protect your Local Dem'

[ldf]

183. if you think dean is a rehash mcgovern type candidate

then you haven't been paying attention.

mcgovern was as exciting as lukewarm oatmeal, although a very good man.

dean has already shown that he has the will to kick ass, and take names later, which is EXACTLY what we need to dump georgie boy.

and gore should not wait until it is absolutely pointless to make an endorsement.

give'm hell dean and gore.

[Hailtothechimp]

223. If Dean is McGovern doesn't that make bu$h....Nixon?

And I would hope the voters who saw how Nixon turned out would want to avoid that mistake again.

Also, didn't MGovern run in 1972? Hmmmmmm, the same year the shrub was AWOL from the TANG. I like the possibilities there.

This McGovern thing won't work too well for Rove.

[dave29]

80. It makes me sad

reading this analysis. Do you really care so much what Rove thinks? Why not spend your time proving him wrong. It is so easily forgotten that the "impotent" Gore got more votes than Bush. He got more votes than Clinton, for that matter.

[MarkTwain]

99. Regrets for the sadness...

... but the reality of the matter is not whether one cares about what Karl Rove "thinks," Karl Rove is tne enemy. Not even George Bush.

For further detail, please see my response directly above this.

The fact that "Mr." Gore got more votes than either Bush or Clinton is notwithstanding. That was the last election.

It is well known that he who fights the last war is doomed to lose it. This is the election of 2004. Post Nine Eleven. Nothing is the same.

Nominee Dean... say hello to President Bush until 2008.

Thanks, Al. You lost another one for us.

[ima_sinnic]

140. oh please spare us, all-knowing-one

you think Rove couldn't put Clark through his sausage machine and come out with scrapple? your underestimation of Dean will come back to bite you in the butt. I am saving your posts to my hard drive so I can bring them back next November and say I told you so.

[MarkTwain]

148. No. I don't....

.... and, I think Clark far outclasses Rove and his puppet, Dim-son, that he'd turn the tables and put the butcher through the grinder versus being ground up himself.

Which is the fait which awaits a man like Dr. Dean with the baggage he carries into the slaughter house.

As an aside, I always find it of interest that some are so driven in their compulsion on these boards as to actually store posts and threads on hard drives. The last time I was so challenged was on the board Capitol Grilling by a wingnut who was equally so obsessed that he would threaten this tactic to many such progressives as myself as if it were some sort of ominous retributiion we were all doomed to suffer at his hands.

Pity that some people just don't have real lives.

[Just Me]

141. Twain the "fortune-teller",...

,...would you kindly, please, give me the winning numbers for the Powerball,...I am so broke,...and since you hold yourself as having a handle on the future,...I could so, so use your help,...I realize what I am saying sounds very sarcastic,...but seeds of truth are blended within (like the broke being long-term unemployed thing). On the other hand,...having been humbled from a "know-it-all" (now, over-educated "bum") to a "know-not-much-at-all", by experience...I guess I have an issue with "fortune-tellers".

Take it easy. Don't be too shrill. And, remember, "Dilbert" says, in my words,...why should we take anything in life too seriously since none of us get out of it alive?

[MarkTwain]

151. The future....

.... is ours to see.

Anyone who approaches this problem - the election of 2004 - with any degree of rationality, political sensitivity, and an awareness of the realities of this country after nine-eleven, comes away with a very specific understanding that the candidacy of a Dr. Dean has about as much chance of success as.... well.....

winning the lotto. With or without the powerball option.

As for appreciating a sense of saracasm in your post, I must plead ignorance since the rest of the post made little sense.

[Just Me]

169. No future could be built upon your cynicism,...

,...and that is all I have to say,...

[MarkTwain]

179. A Wise Decision....

... since disposing of a basic reality as "cynicism" more than belies an inability to deal with that reality, its facts, and its components - and to rise above it and to prevail.

Sort of like where the Democrats appear to be heading this next election cycle. Now with the help of "Mr." Gore.

[ldf]

186. luckily you do not define reality, "Mr." Twain.

and many of us who have lives DO get what is needed here.

Al Gore is NOT a part of the problem, here. he is willing to try to get the democratic party back on the right track, one that is NOT running parallel with the repubes.

as far as saying "i told you so", make sure you drop by after the election, so you can rub our faces in it, ok? we'll all be waiting.

[MarkTwain]

200. Nope. I'm neither that....

....hostile nor will I delight in being right should Dean be the nominee and then bring us to Al Gore Redux on that Wednesday morning in November of 2004.

It will be far too depressing in the realization that our country will have effectively then been lost for the next two to three generations as a result of the long-term SCOTUS impact on the future of this country and the packing of that SCOTUS which Karl, Dick, and George will then do. And which the Democrats and "Mr." Gore will have handed them, again, by the nomination of Dr. Dean.

Now, pardon me but I must go out and buy a few more gross of whistles for all of you on your trek, with Dr. Dean, past the electoral graveyard.

[Politicub]

205. Al Gore redux

I hope this does bring us "Al Gore redux." It'll probably be enough votes to win the election.

Yeah, some "progressive" you are.

[MarkTwain]

209. Prerequisites for being Progressive....

... do not include:

1. ignoring the political reality of this country.

2. sticking your head in the sand and expecting to come up with more than a mouthful of .... well, sand.

3. believing that your conservative and regressive enemies are going to play fair against your candidate to begin with, much less when they are handed the one they want who they (and we) know is ripe for their raping.

Again, we see the attack of the messenger rather than his message. Very interesting, indeed.

[GalleryGod]

Well Put, Mark ! = "A"

Head of the Class with Class:pals:

Your Man in the Faculty Lounge,
GG:donut:

[Guaranteed]

193. You sure do hope so, dontcha?! nt

[MarkTwain]

208. Truth can sometimes....

.... be a painful matter with which to deal.

Your now twice attempt to shoot the messenger rather than deal with his message more than amply supports my thesis that Dr. Dean is not only saddled by his own inherent unelectable baggage but also by supporters whose own grip on reality appears tragically misplaced in believing that hoping it so will make it so.

They also are proving to be a rather hostile bunch, I might add. Not unlike one of those pieces of aforementioned luggage for which the good doctor has been criticized. Hmmmmm.

[Just Me]

249. You are entitled to your perspective, Twain,...

,...and to your opinion. However, I am not buying what you offer as either "right" or "good" or "destiny". I choose another perspective, one that avoids starting from that position of doomed failure that you project. Thanks, but,...no thank you.

[Just Me]

135. You are kidding,...aren't you,...

,...or are you still stuck and angry about 2000? Today is a totally different world,...don't you think? No need to be stuck on a cynical stick,...personally, I want to move on, and forward,...

W-E C-A-N D-O T-H-I-S!!! TOGETHER,...WE CAN!!!

[MarkTwain]

152. "Michael Rowed The....

.... Boat Ashore"

Who's gonna' sign the chorus?

[Cheswick2.0]

180. yadda yadda yadda

so lackluster he got more votes than Clinton ever did and had Florida not been stollen, would have had an overwhelming electoral victory.

[MarkTwain]

202. Would'a... Should'a...

...Could'a.

Hope springs eternal, doesn't it? Political Reality, on the other hand, requires more than just faith, it requires honesty.

Something saddly lacking by those that fail to appreciate the warts on that frog called Dean.

No matter how hard you kiss it, it ain't gonna' turn into any Prince on election day in 2004.

[Guaranteed]

189. Dude....you're a hater.

That's all you are, and you're not doing your party any favors.

Now get the hell out of the way so we can win this election and take our country back.

[MarkTwain]

204. Dude...

... try engaging in colloquy with thoughts that have meaning instead of ad hominem characterizations of another member as a "hater."

Other than Karl, Dick, and George and the entire cabal and all those who support them inclusive of the now lost fourth estate, which they have effectively co-opted, I hate no one.

I hate neither Gore, Dean, nor any other progressive attempting to add color and hue to the political landscape.

The fact that I have touched upon an all too salient point here, and an obvious nerve for all Dean supporters - namely Dr. Dean's obvious unelectablity what with the equally all too obvious baggage he carries - is more than supported by the catty, juvenile, and rather meaningless challenges made in this little part of this thread.

You are all making my point for me. Sadly.

[Name removed]

206. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MarkTwain]

210. "You're the most naked disruptor..."

.... such a characterization is right out of the playbook of the McCarthy era or from the halls of the Kremlin pre-1989.

Ever sense that sometimes people begin to become, and take on the characteristics of, those whom they presumably oppose, hate, or detest?

Better luck next time. Try coming armed with an acutal argument or two which has merit.

[stickdog]

216. You're way off-the-mark, Mark.

Dean can win the general going away.

I hope you'll wise up, and do your share to help him.

Rove is a Bush league Rasputin, as has been shown by his tariff, Iraq and Medicare bill debacles.

[MarkTwain]

219. From your lips....

.... to god's ears, whomever she may be.

But, wishing it so ain't gonn'a make it so, I sadly believe.

They may all be "bush" league, but that league is playing its game right now at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, isn't it? And, with a Dean candidacy, I don't see a change of venue on the horizon for them, very sorry to say.

Just my opinion for which I'm taking a great deal of rather nasty heat tonight (your post excluded) - which says more, I believe, about those criticizing and attacking me than it does about the quality of my thesis.

.... BTW, nice avatar; they caught me on a good day for that one. :)

[stickdog]

222. "But, wishing it so ain't gonn'a make it so, I sadly believe."

No, but working can.

And we could use your help.

[David__77]

62. VERY interesting!

I must say that I am no fan of Al Gore. But he has been saying some very important things about protecting our republic in recent times. I am very surprised by this announcement--I would have never guessed.

[kskiska]

64. Well, I'm off the fence

I was wavering between Dean, Clark, and Kerry, and wished it had been Gore, but I'll go along Al. I'm sure Dean will be on the receiving end of Gore's wisdom re: the Chimp's dirt machine.

[janx]

79. Welcome then! Welcome! Let's get to work!

:hi:

[MODemocrat]

74. Great news - congratulations Dean

I had thought Gore might endorse Lieberman, but this news really makes me happy!!:wow: :loveya: :hug: :yourock: :toast: :party:

[MaineDem]

75. Very sad (nt)

:(

[David Zephyr]

81. Writing is On the Wall

It's time for all the candidates except for Gephardt, Clark and Kerry to pull up stakes and let the nation and the media begin to zero in on the top four.

[killbotfactory]

82. It's good to be the Dean

Jeeeeeeezus!

[ochazuke]

83. Wh wh wh whaaaaaa?

Why would Gore do this? I have a hard time believing it.

Here's the only explanation I can come up with: it pre-empts any draft-Gore talk which would surely emerge if the primaries do not produce a 1st-ballot winner.

[AntiCoup2K4]

86. Monday just got a Hell of a lot more bearable here

Thank you President Gore!! Congratulations Future President Dean!!

And Junior....... your days are numbered :evilgrin:

[westman]

88. I'm happy to hear this, but

I think it's a betrayal of Joe Lieberman.

[bleedingheart]

105. Joe Lieberman has betrayed the Democrats in this country with

his cozying up to the Repubs...especially the faith-based legislation...

[citizen snips]

91. More information.

I would like some more information but if this is true I hope Dean can finilly Beat up Bush. HA HA HA :D

[bluestateguy]

98. Bold move

I had hoped he'd go with my candidate, but I am not bitter. I would suggest Clark court Bill or Hillary Clinton's endorsement.

[Puglover]

102. All I keep thinking about is....

Dr. Dean debating Bunnypants......and it makes me smile.....

[ldf]

190. i thought bush had already said

that he would not be participating in any debates.

since there are no republican primaries, that could only mean for the general election. he knows the democratic candidates would not hold back this time. he is very afraid of the side by side comparison. dean would chew him up and spit him out. nicely.

[wiley]

104. This is a very sad day for Democrats

This is a very sad day . Dean is obviously letting himself be used by a politician who wants to vengefully ride him like a burro. At least the Dean campaign has not officially acknowleged it yet. Or have they? Dean should have the good sense to say Gee thanks Al, and try to keep it as low key as possible. I'm actually embarrased for Dean. Did Dean actively seek out Gore's endorsement? I don't know any Dean supporters who actually think this is a good thing. It was working so well for Gephardt and lieberman that Dean wants to try it on. No Democrat will benefit from this baggage. Are all you Dean supporters on this board really Dean supporters or someone's operatives? Please explain in very precise terms why this would help Howard Dean. I don't believe actually Dean welcomes this. Convince me that somehow this is a good thing. There is some evil afoot here.

[goobergunch]

111. You don't know any Dean supporters that think this is good?

Come on down to General Discussion and I'll show you some. ;)

[Puglover]

112. I dont think anyone could convince you Wiley

as your logic is incomphrehensible.....

[wiley]

118. Answer the question,please

Why is this a good thing for Dean?

[Rose Siding]

217. Money, momentum, money and money

and the name recognition/association will help with voters who barely tune in to politics.

[duvinnie]

134. saaay whaaat?

I don't know any Dean supporters
who actually think this is a good thing.

Well, I am, and I do think its a good thing.
Look at it this way - the endorsement of the legitimate winner of
the popular vote in the 2000 Presidential race tells everyone
who voted for Al 3 years ago that Dean is the right person for
the job.

Just wondering...who did you vote for in 2000?

[Just Me]

150. In your eyes,...evil is afoot everywhere,...

,...apparently,...

You don't wanna trust any one at any time,...

I gotta a life and a line,...

If you want to feed your paranoia,...

Go venture,...you will find what you seek,...

[stickdog]

224. What is Dean thinking taking an endorsement from the

most voted for Democratic Presidential candidate in history?

[PaDUer]

240. It sounds like you

came here for info to take back to your leader.

[cosmicdot]

262. No Democrat will benefit from this baggage

Al Gore is hardly "baggage".

He won the 2000 election.

[Jax]

106. CBS Evening News says

Gore was disappointed in the tone and in-fighting among the candidates. Heard it from the kitchen, no link.

This settles it for me. Dean it is. Go Doctor, kick that lying arrogant appointed deserter out of the White House.

It is still SO HARD to see the real President, Al Gore. I wiull never get over that horrifying appointment. It makes me so sick still.

CBS news also said, "the man who won the popular vote" when they talked about Al. Loved it.

Jax

[Rose Siding]

127. Here a NYT link

snip>
The decision by Mr. Gore seems likely to help Dr. Dean rebut what has been one of the biggest charges raised by his opponents: That he is a weak candidate who would lead the Democrats to a devastating defeat next year. Mr. Gore has repeatedly said that his top priority next year is helping the Democratic party defeat Mr. Bush.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/08/politics/08CND-GORE.html?hp

How freaking COOL is that? :bounce:

[John_H]

132. How will the media play this?

They'll try to make it the kiss of death.

[pruner]

176. they've portrayed it as the kiss of death alright…

for all the other candidates.

:)

[bleedingheart]

107. Wow!

this is great for Dean!

I have leaned Dean for a while and now I am happy to hear this.

[0007]

109. Go Dean go

[54anickel]

114. Wow! I've been between Dean and Clark, SO has been more for Gephardt at

least as a VP due to his never ending support of Unions and the working class.
The thing that held me back on Clark was his inexperience in elected office - worried how he would handle economy problems.
Clarks' strengths is what held me up on backing Dean with the crazy war against the world Shrub has instigated.

Now I don't know what to think. I'll continue to watch as things transpire. I really thought all the candidates certainly brought something to the table this time around.

[reknewcomer]

123. Welcome to the DLC Gov Dean

They have been waiting for you.

[Malva Zebrina]

125. Sounds like Gore has stabilized the debate

and that is a tribute to Gore. I look for the extraneous runners, Gebhart, Lieberman, Edwards,
Braun and Sharpton to back out now and for the field to be narrowed as it should be at this point, imo. All of the cacaphoney coming from so many runners was not beneficial and energy was being wasted. It is now time to hone the debate, thanks to Al.

The Clinton endorsement, if it is forthcoming, will be very important and I would hope to see the Clinton's endorse Dean also,if they are inclined to endorse anyone, just to salvage the party and to prevent any concept of a split. I would also expect to see, in these times of near fascism under Bush, those runners who do back out to fully support the candidate that has the best chance. I hope that is not too much to ask of the Democratic party. I would hope their passion is as hopeful and as strong as mine and others here on DU, to take Bush down--permanently and all of his heirs and the rest of the Bush family. If they do not, there is no hope whatsoever for this country.

[davhill]

159. Now Republicans can focus on one target

For a while we had them confused as to which direction from which we were coming at them.

[buddhamama]

130. bad move

as the unofficial leader of the party, Gore should have reserved his support until after the primaries, when The People had decided.

this will have an impact on the process, and frankly, i am disappointed.

no offense to Dean, though. good for him.

[Davis_X_Machina]

164. What point is there to...

...an endorsement after the primaries?

No leading Dem is going to withhold his or her support from the candidate who emerges, so if you want to have any influence on whom the nominee is to be, you have to endorse before or during the primaries.

[buddhamama]

175. i think i made myself pretty clear

i don't think he should have endorsed anyone for the reasons i stated above.

[Davis_X_Machina]

177. By having won the election in 2000...

...and having served as VP, Gore is ispo facto a political eunuch? Can't endorse a candidate until there's only one candidate to endorse?

In England they have a sovereign who does not rule, but reigns.

[buddhamama]

182. you say endorse

not i.

i say support. support the candidate once the candidate has been chosen. yes, that is how i see it. again, Gore is viewed as the leader of the party. i do, with all sincerity, think he should have remained nuetral.

[ldf]

194. as far as i am concerned al gore IS still the head

of the democratic party.

i WANT to know who he supports/endorses/whatever. of course he would support the primary nominee. he sure as hell wouldn't support bush.

therefore, any support needs to be given when it can make a difference.

i am extremely glad he did it. i would have just as strongly supported clark, if gore had endorsed him.

[buddhamama]

196. freak out

wow. thanks for informing me that gore wouldn't be supporting Bush. i was rather afraid there for a while. whew. i feel so much better.

btw, gore's endorsement has no bearing on who'll vote for,but if it makes you feel better. good.

[TheReligiousLeft]

136. Holy Cow!

Well, that's it. Dean/Gore '04.
Okay, maybe not, but now we know Dean has won the nomination, or at least that is how it feels to me.
Poor, Kerry, it was a good race, maybe he'll become Sec. of State. Who knows.
So who will be VP? Clark? Graham? Gep?
Well, I had been riding the Kerry Dean fense too long anyways.

[Unknown Known]

145. Gore stabs LIEberman in the back!! You go Al!!!

If Joe doesn't drop out, you know he's being pushed by DLC! Fire McAuliffe, too!! YEEEEPEEEEE!!!

Gore's endorsement along with other Dems criticizing Dean more than Bush is pushing WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYY over to Dean!!!!

[PennyLane]

234. Lieberman stabbed Gore first! N/T

[annxburns]

156. Okay guys, I'm outta here ....

... the unstoppable freight train that is the Dean campaign has just locked it up, I think. Gotta admit I am a little disappointed, Dean never did anything for me. I'm pretty moderate and I'm registered as an independent. (For example, my two favorite U.S. Senators are Chuck Hagel and John McCain). Seems I always end up being disappointed with the nominees of either party. I loved John McCain but the party faithful did not agree. I liked Edwards and Clark, but again, the party faithful do not agree. I don't think someone running as a moderate can win in this day and age. Oh well.

Anyway, good luck and God Bless, you DU'ers! I will always be ABB!

[w4rma]

254. Dean is a moderate. Dean governed as a moderate.

His campaign espouses moderate views.

[imax2268]

157. Can you hear it...?

Can you hear the Rethuglicans moaning across the country...?

Can you hear the winds of change blowing like gale force winds...?

:bounce:

[young_at_heart]

158. Let's hope Gore will give him pointers on back-stabbing

We found out just how down-and-dirty the Republicans can be in 2000. The Dems need smart people to counteract what is sure to be utter ruthlessness.

[peacetalksforall]

162. Quandry

I admire Al Gore. Something in me holds back on Dean - I haven't figured out what.

I also admire Ted Kennedy. But, I'm angry at Lieberman, Kerry, Gebhardt, etc for their support for the Iraqi war. The majority of people on DU and other forums could see right through the intentions of PNACers and the total right wing war machine - why couldn't those Senator-Candidates? WHY? Because they were scared of votes - they rode the patriotic road of crap propaganda. They had to know that they were being taken. Some one of them could have convinced us that the evidence was real or not, but no, they just went along with all the lies.

So, if Dean is the person, I won't be sad about others.

However, I'll need help overcoming my hesitation of Dean.

Go Mosely Braun, Kucinich, Sharpton! You're good people! Hope you don't drop out.

Thank you Al for not backing Lieberman. He didn't deserve it, sorry to say, even though I was happy with his candidancy in 2000. And I loved his wife! But, Joe, you just don't always carry a Dem message and vote.

The Party can't be mean - but it can't be too middle.

There are so many things to push in a positive way. Positive strength. Every one of the candidates should take positive strength lessons from Mosely Braun.

[pinto]

187. good points, imho. Remember, change is incremental.

I used to vote a straight Socialist ticket when I could find one, as a statement. Turned out to be a statement I made to a few close friends. Didn't make change. I'm older now and still vote for a Socialist when I see one I like but realize mainstream politics create change, or more precisely, have the best possibility to make change. My take now is to find a mainstream candidate who I think will move the ball forward. Hang in there.

[ozone_man]

173. Thank you Al.

I heard (at DU) this might be coming. What a boost for Dean.

[truthisfreedom]

181. there really is only one mantra. ANYONE BUT bUSH. ANYONE BUT bUSH.

every single Democratic candidate is better than bush. every one and every one. they are great men compared to the self-righteous, thoughtless, cold-hearted thug we have in the White House, that's drained our Treasury into his greedy supporters' pockets and destroyed our relationship with our most important allies and callously killed thousands of innocent people and lied about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to get his way.


remember, he holds the record for many, many evil things... such as the hiring of the most convicted felons to work for government by any President.

[tlcandie]

191. On several points I have to agree ...

1) Locks it up for Dean and all else out the window (high ledge like the CIA does when it's called suicide).

My heart wants Kucinich and always will and I may not know who I will vote for in the primaries until I cast my ABSENTEE ballot, but I will tow the line for the good of us all and not my own selfish choice even though I believe it is far from selfish to have Kucinich as our president.

2) These are NOT normal times! In fact, these are the times where unusual measures, unusual men/women, unusual endings, unusual means, etc. are required in order to oust and overcome all that is soured and dying within our country.

We are up against a beast/monster/predator as many have stated and I don't believe in losing our integrity or honor, BUT we need a tsunami behind us (the earlier the better) to beat down the evil presently running our country. It will take more than anything we've ever experienced or seen to ROOT OUT this admin and all that is behind it...it is deep and heavily layered and old enough for its tap to be stronger than strong.

Ages ago, those who felt this way about their country fled to this country to live and better life. It is now time to clear out the last vestiges of THAT ERA, TIME, WAY OF THINKING that followed these people to this country and move into another era...transcend the small ways of thinking that keep us separated and behind physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually from all those people who stood against this war. It is time that we grow up and see our rightful place in this world and be humbled.

3) I believe that Al Gore knows there is more at stake than even what the most informed among us realise and THAT is why he pulled the plug and did something that he knew not all would understand OR nod to in agreement.

No, I don't believe he is a god or super human...he has faults like the rest of us. His integrity has always held and I believe we may just have to TRUST the elected PRESIDENT. People such as him are privy to things that we can only imagine. I support Clark over Dean. Again, I find that I will have to give in YET again from what I would choose if it was MY way or the highway.

4) I agree that a change is forthcoming whether via Dean or via someone else...things will not continue to stand...they can't. It goes against all that this universe supports. When it will change is another question.

I can only hope that it is as some have stated herein regarding the dem party, etc.

5) It hurts when your candidate is sooooo kicked to the curb when they are so right for the position with the highest integrity, honor, and experience. It hurts when you feel you have no voice or vote, but you have to move past yourself; your hurt, your desires, wishes, and hopes: much like being a parent or wife, and do the right thing even though it is harder than hard and goes against all that you are at times because of your LOVE for something higher.

I am doing that and wish Dean and all those who have supported him from the get-go the very best! CONGRATULATIONS!! It is your responsibility to make sure he keeps his feet on the ground after this...THAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY FROM HERE ON OUT!


Our country is collapsing and soon there will be nothing to save and I believe that some such as Al Gore know, see, and sense this and know that time is of the essence if we are to save anything with which to reform and turn this train around. I believe it is now or never...the time IS now, but the elections aren't until next year.

In my way of thinking Gore wants us to focus on the positive, see past this, move past it and work on what we will do after the win. FOCUS on how to repair all that is broken because this is NO SMALL task. Can you imagine all that will have to be done to even begin to fix this mess?! Overwhelming! We have to start NOW to FOCUS on AFTER the election.

Speaking of which...it will be rigged and we MUST act now to have such overwhelming support that there is not even an inkling in hell's chance that anyone but one candidate other than * wins this time around! To think or do otherwise would be naieve and deadly. One more term and this country might be breathing, but the breath will be vile, labored, and deadly.

We have no tomorrow folks...only today and today has changed with this announcement. Whether we are whole-heartedly behind this or just eeking by in support, we each have our part to play in this rescue and resusitation. Myself, I will take the holidays to readjust my thinking cap, heal my heart. My intention will be to move forward with a focus, determination, and a cheerful heart looking forward to seeing the death of this admin if not the death of the rethug party!

DISCLAIMER: I'm not looking for flames only putting my thoughts out there in hopes to move past this myself!

:party: DEAN :toast: DEAN :bounce: DEAN

Let's HOPE (crosses fingers) that he asks Clark to join him at his side! :+

[milkyway]

232. Wow, great post...

I've liked Dean a lot since before the invasion of Iraq, but I didn't commit to him totally because I also liked Clark. I've been torn between the two, but a couple of weeks ago I decided to go with Dean despite polls showing he doesn't run as well as Clark or others head-to-head with Bush. But I think the polls are wrong. Their is a movement that is forming around the Dean campaign that has a chance to evolve into one of the most important popular movements in American history.

The Dean campaign is about much more than Howard Dean. It is about sweeping away a quarter century of liberals and progressives having to feel like we're second-class citizens, like somehow we wandered into the wrong country and we should just go back to where we came from; a quarter century of right wing attacks against the Constitution; a quarter century of the right wing war against the federal government of the United States. To them, we're just liberals, commies, atheists, fags, dykes, feminazis, freaks, drug addicts, spics, jews, gooks, and n***ers. Well you know what? That covers most people in America! This small minority of people, rightwing white guys 25-65 years old, has taken over the country and think they can decide who's an American and who is not. Their rule is absolute.

In Howard Dean, this movement has found its voice. His speech in Florida on Saturday had me trembling. The Gore endorsement has ended the race for the nomination. The sooner Dean wraps up the nomination, the sooner we can get to work on expanding the movement, and get to work on sweeping away these usurpers and reclaim this country for us all.

[Just Me]

248. TWO GREAT POSTS!!!!

Thank you both!!! I completely agree that we must get constructively galvanized against those who would define Americanism as something "for or against" a narrow/shallow neo-con ideology (created by an elite few of white power-mongers),...and the SOONER we do so, the better!!!

[TacticalPeek]

258. I beg to differ, tlcandie. I actually believe in democracy.

I disagree with your gist, and particularly #3.

I believe that democratic government is moral. I believe that our vote should count, not because I'm as smart as Al Gore, not because I know the terrible secrets you posit he and the ruling elite know. Our vote should count because we will be governed by those elected. That is the moral issue, that is what is known as government of the people, by the people and for the people.

A Gore endorsement intended to help unify our factions against aWol would have taken place after some primaries, after some votes were counted and the will of the people revealed. Our democracy is resilient, not fragile.

His endorsement this early amounts to a short-circuit of democracy. The difference between now and later is mainly the personal power for which Gore has reached. What could have been a unifying announcement later has now risked becoming a wedge in our party. I agree with the gravity of the stakes you discuss, which makes this risk reckless.

[pinto]

203. Looks like time to get over Bush and get a Dem plan for 2 morrow...n/t

[gulliver]

207. Gore's about to lose an election he isn't even in.

Very disappointed in Gore. I contributed to him. I voted for him. If he endorses Dean, he loses me. He should have just stayed out of it and supported the resulting nominee.

[w4rma]

255. Gore beat Bush and partisan judges prevented him from taking office.

Al Gore and Joe Lieberman *won* the election in 2000. Al Gore kicked Shrub's pants off in Florida by ~46,000 votes. He beat Shrub nationwide be more than half a million votes. Had Florida been awarded to Al Gore as the voters in Florida wanted then Al Gore would have won by 45 (46 without the abstention) electoral votes.

“More than 113,000 voters cast ballots for two or more presidential candidates. Of those, 75,000 chose Mr. Gore and a minor candidate; 29,000 chose Mr. Bush and a minor candidate. Because there was no clear indication of what the voters intended, those numbers were not included in the consortium's final tabulations.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/recount/12VOTE.html

~46,000 is the margin that Al Gore *actually* won Florida by. *That* was the intent of the voters. Not some measly ~200 votes. Also, *without* those ~46K votes Al Gore still won according to Florida law (had SCOTUS not *unconstitutionally* interfered).
Sources:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections2000/recount/yourvote.html
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2058793
http://www.geocities.com/dearkandb/supremeqanda.html
http://www.the-rule-of-law.com/
http://www.ericblumrich.com/gta.html

Also, Al Gore got more popular votes that any other presidential candidate in the history of the United States, except for the time that Reagan won 49 out of 50 states' electoral votes. This was done while fending off an attack from the left *and* while fighting against a heavily biased media.
Sources:
http://www.mediachannel.org/views/whistleblower/palast.shtml
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=181&row=1
http://www.dailyhowler.com/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=90&forum=DCForumID45
http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is at least dimpled. Example
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 107 votes.

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is detached from one or more corners. Example
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 72 votes.

Count ballot as a vote if vote is indicated, but marked incorrectly. Example
Vote is indicated and marked correctly, but the candidate's name is also written in. Example
Ballot condition is agreed upon by at least two judges.
Count ballot as a vote if the chad is fully detached from ballot.
Final Tally: Gore won Florida by 430 votes.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/elections2000/recount/yourvote.html

For the count we've been keeping since Election Day, these are now the final numbers for a state-wide cumulative media recount.
http://www.unknownnews.net/election2000.html#count

[RamboLiberal]

218. I think this is fabulous news and I applaud Al Gore

And right now I'm sitting here watching Clark on Hardball. Last week I was cheering and clapping Dean's appearance. And tonight I'm cheering and clapping Clark's take no prisoners attitude. "Impeachable" - love it!

I damn well hope Dean/Clark is the ticket. This is the winning ticket.

[AnnitaR]

220. Another Clark supporter saying "Congrats"!

Congrats to Gov. Dean and to all the Deanies here! What a nice day for you guys. I'm from TN and Gore is someone who I have respected for a long time.

His support for Dean will not change how I feel about Clark. Clark still is the one I feel that can beat Chimpy! I am just really glad that Gore is going to be out there bashing Chimpy full time now!

Congrats again Deanies!

[Hailtothechimp]

221. Right on Al! It's all over but the nominating. n/t

[Myra]

227. I'm so friggen glad he rightly dissed Lieberman. Congrats Deanies!

I like Clark and Kucinich, but this is fabulous news for Dean,
and Deanies, and for those of us who prayed Prez Gore would
endorse a quality candidate.

Looking forward to Tuesday's debate...

[Boreas]

228. Yip Yippee!!

Oh frabjous day! Callou, callay, I chortle in my joy.

[DemonFighterLives]

229. I was starting to look more closely at Dean

Still had some hopes for Clark or Kerry or Gephardt. It definitely is time to thin the herd and hopefully the remaining ones in the race will pull together. Dean scored points with me when the DNC dogged him off and also when he inflamed the country with the redneck/rebel flag remarks. He is fearless and has not bowed down to Bush et al. It is time to pass out the cyanide pills to the Junta, so they can avoid war crimes trials and for cimes against humanity.
Kind of an interesting wrench in the works. Gore is smart though and hopefully this move is well thought out.

[tlb]

237. Partytime at the White House !

Who needs Nader when you have Gore of all people to screw the democrats. Al has driven a stake through Gephardt. For the first time I seriously believe Dean will be the nominee.

Kamakazie candidates can be fun to watch but they tear down more then they build.

[JNelson6563]

242. Ignore the trolls, plants and bitter folks

Our greatest obstacle will be all those who insist that we cannot win.

I can't believe it!! President Gore endorsing my candidate!!!! This only fires me up all the more. So while all those who are upset about this declare it wrong (you know they'd think differently if it were their candidate, denials aside) I'll be sharing this news with all my politico friends!

This oughta bring the meme planting to a frenzied level. Cowering in fear of Rove and parroting reich-wing talking points will all be more prevelant characteristics of DU starting now.

Gore !! I am just delighted!! No amount of reich-wing meme parroting can change that!! Whooo-hooo!!!!!!!!!!

Julie

[Nile]

243. Good for Al.

I hope it kicks the wind ot of Lieberman's campagne.

[Boo Boo]

244. Not sure...

what this means for Clark and Edwards. After all, name one Southern State that Gore won in 2000. Oh yeah, Florida! OK, I'll give ya that one. Clark and Edwards live or die in the South. Gore is a loser in the South. Frankly, a lot of Dems I know out here in CA like to bash Gore for "bending over" for GW. Not my own opinion, but I am surprised by how many folks hold it against him.

Interesting that the announcement will be in Harlem? Did I get that right? That's Bill Clinton's hood. I wonder how he feels about that. Kind of an in-your-face sort of move?

So, are they playing the Gore endorsement to improve Dean's standing with African Americans? I could understand this for sure. I mean, how embarassing is it to have a white guy holding a African Americans for Dean sign at a Dean appearance. That's not something that should be repeated.

I guess I'm sort of nonplussed by this. Gore has been playing the same room as Dean, making moveon.org speeches, etc. I guess my first reaction was, "Well, who the hell else would he endorse?" There's lots of resentment between him and DLC crowd. When he tried to lay the groundwork for another campaign, the Dem Grand Poobahs told him they weren't interested. If endorses anybody other than Dean, everybody just yawns, and his most ardent supporters turn into Gore Haters.

It's a no brainer. But I have no clue as to how much it's actually worth. It'll create a buzz. Give Dean some more momentum, I guess. It's certainly the biggest endorsement anybody's gotten yet.

As for the whole McGovern thing. I'll just remind y'all that Nixon won. Viet Nam was a lot more unpopular a War than Iraq, but it didn't stop Nixon from winning. Anybody that thinks Dean/Clark ticket is unbeatable is living in a dream world. No ticket is unbeatable against these guys.

As for a Dean/Clark ticket. Stranger things have happened I guess. But, my hunch is that Clark thinks Dean is a loser, otherwise he would have, according to his own logic, not entered the race. Also, Dean is not at all popular with the Military and Veterans---one wonders if Clark could step away from that culture. I kinda doubt it. That would sort of just make him another politician in the eyes of a lot of people that he cares an awful lot about.

It would also be hard for him to swallow in terms of pride. Clark is an expert on US foreign policy, and probably more prepared to deal with GW's Big Mess than any person that I know of. OTOH, Dean would be the most lightweight candidate the Dems have fielded in my lifetime, or at least every bit a match for Mike Dukakis.

If Dean gets the nod, I hope like hell he can pull it off. But I'm an old fart, and I've seen the Dems lose with guys like him before. He doesn't give folks a good enough reason to change horses. They don't like what Bush is doing in Iraq, but won't believe Dean can fix it, so they'll stick with GW. That's how War works.

It worked for Nixon. Why wouldn't it work for Bush?

[Stuckinthebush]

246. Why isn't Dean popular with the Military?

I would have figured that his popularity is rising within those ranks due to his outspokeness about the failed Iraq war. It would seem to me that many service people are very upset about this war, and Dean (or any Dem) would be an attractive alternative to the guy who is sticking them on the front lines for no reason.

[TacticalPeek]

256. Because emotion often trumps logic.

KKKarl has a meat grinder with Howard Dean's name on it. And our pitiful press has a dripping orifice labeled 'reserved for Karl' (i.e., Shrub's AWOL is 'old news' but Dean is fresh meat).

Since Dean is a straight talker about his draft history, he will be pilloried as a 'draft dodger', and lacks any ammo to return fire (at least lacks any that would be impressive to most troops). The best I can hope for (with Dean heading the ticket) is continued bushco fubar in Iraq, etc., perhaps leading to many military just going deer hunting on election day. That would help, but may not be enough.

I admire Dean, but I'm just telling it like I see it.

[truthspeaker]

247. first thing I heard this morning when I woke up

My alarm clock is set to NPR and this was the top story at 5:30 (CST) this morning. As a Dean supporter, I'm ecstatic. But let's not go overboard. This is a big boost for Dean, but it does not guarantee nomination. And I will support whoever gets the nomination. In my mind Clark is the other big contender; he's also my personal second choice. I think we can each support our candidate of choice without bashing the others.

[bytheriversofbabylon]

257. pay attention

I think it's great that Gore picked Dean. I want us to be very vocal and supportive of this. The S.C.L.M is trying to make Gore's choice seem like a betrayal of Holy Joe. We should have seen this comming. Holy Joe to all intents and purpose did not earn nor deserve the endorsement of Give eM Hell Al beacuse he voted to and still supports the illegal and inmoral invasion of Iraq just to name one thing! PeaceO8) O8)

[Puglover]

259. The one thing that I know about Dean is...

if by some horrible coincidence or Diebold scam a Florida debacle happens in 2004, Dean will fight and fight hard against the Bushistas. One of the questions I've always wished that someone would ask him is what would/will you do if that happens. I love Al Gore (hell I even have a leather bound and signed copy of "Earth in the Balance" ) BUT that being said I wish he would have gone down fighting rather being such a damn gentleman. Those assholes STOLE the fucking election in 2000 and THIS time when they try it again I want someone there who is a streetfighter.

[JNelson6563]

260. Gore in Iowa today

Here's what he said:

rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04120903_deangore.rm

Julie