2700 US TROOPS NOW DEAD IN IRAQ

[bluestateguy]

http://icasualties.org/oif/

Despicable.

[Monkeyman]

1. RIP Brothers and Sisters you will not be forgotten by us vets

[DemoTex]

2. Dulce Et Decorum Est

Dulce Et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.


Wilfred Owen
1893-1918

Dulce et decorum est, Pro patria mori: It is sweet and good to die for one's country. The old lie, indeed.

RIP

[peteatomic]

20. Thanks for the poem. It's very true. You think it's like the movies,

you know-- charging into fight the Indians & save the poor wailing blonde woman held hostage. But then when you get there, all you meet are innocents. Where was the faceless, savage enemy? They'd disappeared, and left starving women & children in their stead.

[aaronbees]

24. "obscene as cancer"....

So true in the poem, and so true about this war.

[stepnw1f]

3. Bush: "Mission Accomplished!" (nt)

[Malva Zebrina]

4. What a waste of human life

what a waste. To think that their commander in chief was an AWOL ne'er do well who sent them to die, or to kill and be killed, and continues to "stay the course" to their deaths to save himself from having to admit he screwed it all up in Iraq, and LIED to his own troops.

and, let us not forget, sad as their loss of life is, some have joined to kill knowing full well what the Bush agenda is. I am not for excusing that and it is sad they had to die, to kill or to torture, because they believed in a lie.

[SDDEM06]

5. It's just a number.

Ask Tony Snow.

[TomClash]

6. "Throes of Defeat" nt

[True Blue Believer]

7. So, How Many Troops Have To Die Before We "Win?"

I think this is a question that those who oppose the war should be asking Bush and the Repub Congress at every turn. How many more must die before American voters get sick of seeing American troops returning home in coffins? Or not seeing return, since our fallen troops are smuggled into the country in the dark of night, instead of being honored simply by being counted and remembered for making the ultimate sacrifice? How many more Americans must be forever maimed, or genetically damaged by radiation, or be left suffering from mental illness caused by what they have seen and perhaps even done in Iraq?

Remember, these troops, most anyway, believed that they were "liberating" the Iraqi people. We were saving them from a tyrant. Can you imagine how they must feel, seeing the awful, on-going results of this war? Realizing that almost three thousand of their fellow troops have died, and scores of thousands more are forever maimed and disabled, and wondering what for, since Iraq is in worse shape now than it was before we "rescued" Iraq. Then finding out the entire war was based on bogus claims. Realizing that the people they came to save now hate them, and that the situation is just getting worse, instead of better.

What does it take for Bush supporters to see how misguided, mismanaged, and just plain stupid this war in Iraq is. Every time I hear Bush babbling about "fighten' teeerrrssm" and "keepin' the American people safe," I just want to hurl. How are we safer? Bush can't even deal with natural disasters, even less keeping terrorists from attacking us. He has to be the most worthless president in our country's history.

Far from defeating teerorism, Bush and his Repub yes men and women are only getting a lot of people needlessly killed in Iraq while tearing this country apart. All on our tab, BTW.

IMO, the Repubs have a lot of splainin' to do. It's up to us to do the asking and to DEMAND answers. Real answers. The Repubs owe this entire country an apology. But they can't "lose face," so they just keep goose stepping along behind Bush, chanting their mantras . . .

"Stay The Course." "Don't Cut And Run." "Fighting Then Over There yadda yadda."

When Clinton ran, we democrats had a saying of our own.
"It's the economy, stupid."
Here's a new one for Democrats.

It's the cliff America's going over, stupid.

We can't let them off the hook here. We need to make Bush's many lies and failures the issues here, not gay marriage or any other nonsense the Repubs are hiding behind. We have to keep asking, how many? How many more must die before we have "won" this un-winnable war? How many?

[democrank]

8. It`s mind numbing.

All those young lives cut short. For what?

[Erika]

9. and 19,910 U.S. troops wounded

at www.icasualties.org

[True Blue Believer]

10. Numbers of Dead and Wounded Troops "Spun."

In Congressman Murtha's speech, he gave much higher numbers than the Bush WH and Repub Congress are giving.

He said that there are many thousands of wounded troops, or troops in psych wards ( I'm thinking 50,000, but it might be best to look up a transcript of his speech to verify that. ) But here's a little something that might be of interest. If a soldier is mortally wounded, but dies after he is out of Iraq, being transported, that troop's death is not counted in Bush's statistics. Didn't die in Iraq, ya see. So didn't die in Iraq war. So simple, so incredibly despicable. Beneath contempt.

My guess is that the same sort of numbers game is being "played" by our "president" regarding how many troops are wounded or hidden away in psych wards.

After all, playing his little numbers games are what got Bush into the WH to begin with. If it ain't fixed, they'll happily fix it.

[Monkeyman]

14. 33,000 wounded from both zones CBS had a report and ABC

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. Absolute bullshit

Included in the 2700 are many who have died in transport, in Germany, and even many weeks (and even months!) later Stateside.

Don't believe me? Here's the evidence: http://icasualties.org/oif/Dow.aspx

Each and every one of these troops died outside of Iraq, and each and every one is included in the total theater-related fatalities. You are just plain incorrect about this, and should refrain from repeating unfounded rumors and bullshit if you want to be credible.

[Monkeyman]

16. Nope it not 60 minutes 2004 report 25,000 wounded

DoD is not reporting the truth. The Humvvee in front hit combat related the one behind goes off the road not combat related. There and old link if it does not work look in 60 minutes back stories.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/19/60minutes/main65756.shtnl

[Monkeyman]

17. Nightline 2005 reported 31,000 under DoD's numbers

They are not putting out the ones they feel are not combat related. Email Larry Scott at VA watchdog he give you DoD's reasons

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. As far as deaths are concerned

The so-called "official" nmber makes no distinctions between combat and non-combat. I was disputing a specific point in the post: that deaths outside of theater are not counted in the 2700. That is patently false. It is ALSO patently false that deaths from "non-hostile" causes are not counted. They are. Just read the list for this month alone, and you'll see plenty of non-combat deaths counted in this months numbers: http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=9-2006

And you have ZERO evidence to prove the contrary. Or, if you do have evidence that non-combat deaths and out-of-theater deaths are not oincluded, please provide it. I await your evidence with bated breath...

[Monkeyman]

22. I'm only talking wound the death toll is 2700 Iraq

I deal with the wounded who are not being taken care of. If your list as not combat related try to get your benefits

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Well, then we're talking two different things

I never said one word about the wounded, so I don't know why you would say "Nope" in response to my posts.

[deutsey]

11. Good thing this was a cake walk

:sarcasm:

[True Blue Believer]

12. Murtha's Statements

Murtha's press conference.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/17/AR2005111700794.html

more info on Murtha.

www.murtha.org

It's incredibly PATHETIC that the Republicans and the White House are so threatened by the words of the elderly gentleman that they felt compelled to attack him like a pack of rabid pit bulls. Very pathetic rabid pit bulls. As Olbermann asked, "Have you no shame?"

Here's a great example of what I'm talking about. The former "Swift Boaters," now bashing a man who has spent his entire adult life serving his country.
Take a look.

http://www.bootmurtha.com/

Pathetic. These knuckle dragger's aren't fit to carry Murtha's boots. No, they have no shame, or if they do, they are too idiotic to recognize the sensation.

[brer cat]

13. And all the flowers the Iraqi citizens were going to throw before

our troops are now on their coffins. "Where have all the soldiers gone? Gone to graveyards every one. When will they ever learn?"

God bless these young men & women and the families that will forever grieve.

May *, Cheney and Rummy burn in eternal damnation!

[LetsThink]

18. Wounded Maimed, Those with Head Injuries, PTSD......

Hey--- No one has mentioned all the pain, suffering and all the returning vets who find there are not adequate services to help them heal..... or at least become functional enough to fight off the nightmares, panic attacks and other head injury-related issues. Then there are those with PTSD......

Did I mention that funding has been CUT for head injury-related medical services?

[ckramer]

19. You think Bush care?

Fat chance.

[Erika]

25. Please delete.

The W family does not do ugly...Just the profits from ugly.

[Erika]

26. W doesn't even do acknowlegement.

The W family does not do ugly...Just the profits from ugly.

[radfringe]

27. fyi: another chart

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~stephan/USfatalities.html