WP: GOP Upbeat on Terror-Trial Bill: Dems won't block and be blamed

[DeepModem Mom]

GOP Upbeat on Terror-Trial Bill
House Leaders Satisfied With Bush-Senate Compromise
By Charles Babington and Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, September 23, 2006; Page A06

House GOP leaders signaled yesterday that they are satisfied with the main elements of a bill on military trials negotiated Thursday by dissident Republican senators and White House officials, and they predicted that Congress will pass the measure before adjourning next week....

***

The House response all but settles an intraparty squabble and puts congressional Democrats in a difficult spot six weeks before elections in which they hope to wrest many House and Senate seats from the GOP. Some of the Democrats' liberal constituents dislike the bill, viewing it as a green light for President Bush to resume a CIA policy of interrogating foreign terrorism suspects with harsh techniques that some critics consider torture. But to oppose the compromise, which Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has embraced, would subject them to charges of being soft on terrorism, several analysts said.

Many Democrats would undoubtedly like to change the bill, "but probably those in competitive races will just have to stay behind McCain," said political scientist Bruce Cain, director of the Institute of Governmental Studies at the University of California at Berkeley. A House Democratic leadership aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss political strategy, said: "We had really hoped the White House had caved, but it's looking more and more like the senators caved."...(T)op Democrats in both houses indicated that they will not stand in the bill's path and risk being blamed for its demise....

***

Republicans, meanwhile, signaled plans to trumpet their newfound unity and attack Democrats even if only a handful oppose the bill. The office of House Majority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) released a statement saying that "while Democrats talk out of both sides of their mouth, Republicans are working together . . . to provide predictability and clear guidance to both our military and civilian personnel so they may continue to keep Americans safe."...(Democrats not attacking the bill) is not sitting well with liberal activists, whose energy will be important to Democrats on Election Day. Caroline Fredrickson, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Washington legislative office, called the legislation a "get out of jail free" card for the administration's "top torture officials." She said it would render the Geneva Conventions' protections "irrelevant and unenforceable."

Democratic political strategists at Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research encouraged Democrats to challenge Republicans on national security issues. Jeremy Rosner, senior vice president, said polling suggests that Bush's focus on security matters in the past weeks may have helped his personal approval ratings, but it has harmed Republican lawmakers by elevating anxieties over Iraq....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/22/AR2006092201355.html

[Rose Siding]

1. Said the anonymous aide

[kainah]

2. sigh.....

and the worst part is that no one really knows what this legislation will do. Since when do we need to pass any important legislation in this slip-shod way?

[pat_k]

4. We know EXACTLY what this legislation does. . .

The War Crimes Protection Act of 2006 has ONE purpose -- to protect the War Criminals in the Executive Branch the war crimes they have committed. To that end, the bill seeks to gut U.S. Code of any avenue through which they could be prosecuted, even going so far as to strip our courts of the ability to examine their actions. It is a transparent attempt to escape the consequences that their actions would demand in any civilized society. Their attempt to escape prosecution demonstrates their consciousness of guilt.

The so-called "definition problem" is nothing compared to this part (page 79 of http://www.law.georgetown.edu/faculty/nkk/documents/MilitaryCommissions.pdf">Bush's version):

(b) RIGHTS NOT JUDICIALLY ENFORCEABLE.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—No person in any habeas action or any other action may invoke the Geneva Conventions or any protocols thereto as a source of rights, whether directly or indirectly, for any purpose in any court of the United or its States or territories.

So, now it's:

. . .We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable, UNENFORCEABLE, Rights.

[pat_k]

3. "blamed for it's demise" would be the BEST thing that could happen to them

. . . It is physically painful to watch them, once again, shoot themselves.

They need to be hit upside the head with a cluestick -- and it is up to us to do it.

The War Criminals Protection Act of 2006 MUST BE killed.

The so-called "definition problem" is nothing compared to this part (page 79 of http://www.law.georgetown.edu/faculty/nkk/documents/MilitaryCommissions.pdf">Bush's version):

(b) RIGHTS NOT JUDICIALLY ENFORCEABLE.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—No person in any habeas action or any other action may invoke the Geneva Conventions or any protocols thereto as a source of rights, whether directly or indirectly, for any purpose in any court of the United or its States or territories.

So, now it's:

. . .We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable, UNENFORCEABLE, Rights.

Anyone who fails to work to kill off this bill is enabling the torturers -- and is therefore an accessory after the fact.

Do they really want to be accomplices to War Crimes?

Or perhsps they should fight and take CREDIT for KILLING off this abomination.

[bbgrunt]

21. I couldn't agree more. I am so angry right now that I

am beginning to think it is better that they lose in Nov.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

5. That's been kind of my concern

I feel this is a trap to say Democrats are soft on terror.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. So instead we should go along with legalizing torture?

With all due respect to you and our Democratic Party 'leaders', have you lost your mind?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

15. Good last name for yourself

Did I say legalize torture? Don't put words in my mouth.

Unfortunately many voters will fall for this BS. Especially in the heartland.

I should be able to point out the unpleasant without having such a ridiculous accusation made. No wonder the left has a hard time winning elections. They're too busy eating their own.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. So are you advocating that the Democrats in congress should

vote for torture or against it?

[CityDem]

34. Right up the ass

If Harry Reid allows this bill to go forward, he might as well hand Bush a tube of lubricant to Bush and bend over and grab his ankles. I am so sick of the "keep your powder dry" Democrats.

[leesa]

10. What is with this stupid "soft on terror" crap? Why do you fall for that

nonsense?

Fighting terrorism with bombs and torture makes no sense and never will. Not engaging in these things doesn't mean you are soft, it means you are smarter!

Geez, why do Dems let them paint us into corners like this?!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

16. It's not me who falls for that.crap.

It's that many others do. Is it too hard for you to wrap your brain around that concept.

I'll agree we don't fight terrorism with torture but beyond that what's your suggestion? Hold hands and sing "Give Peace a Chance"?

[Roland99]

6. "dissident Republicans"????

:wtf:




:eyes:

[bluestateguy]

7. This is a trap. Just like the 2002 Homeland Security bill

Difference is, this time, there are more Republicans in tough races than Democrats.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. The trap is to not stand up and say no. nt.

[maseman]

11. There's only two options here folks

1. The Dems stand up and say "No." Then the $60 million Repuke ad campaign has one message. The Dems are soft on terror and because they all voted no against the bill. They want the terrorists to go free. Then we are sure to lose in November. What have we accomplished?

2. We go along with it quietly and not much news is produced keeping rather low profile. That gives us a still much better shot at winning in November.

I think people in DU seem to forgot that with out the House, Senate or White House we have NOTHING. We have no committee power, no subpoeana power, no hearings power, no voice at all.

We can suck it up short term and do what we need to do thinking long-term. I want to comtrol on branch of government which would make nearly impossible over the next two years for the Shrub to do anything.

I'm sure I'll get flamed, but it is all about politics and winning the next 6 weeks.

[AX10]

12. But once the Democrats get back into power, they BETTER...

be serious about holding *'s feet to the fire.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

17. Agreed

Thanks for being one of the few voices of sanity in this thread.

[bbgrunt]

20. there is no damn way they will get back into power without a

program and showing themselves to be such wimps.

[Kolesar]

28. "without a program and showing themselves to be such wimps"

You need some oxygen

[Warren Stupidity]

22. We stand up with a preemptive 60M ad campaign

with one message: the republicans are trying to make torture and legal in order to avoid going to jail for violating the geneva conventions. The Democratic Party thinks that torture is not an american value, that we are not going to abolish the geneva conventions, and that the criminals in the bush administration are not getting off the hook.

Or we go along as usual hoping that folks will vote for us anyway.

[BootinUp]

13. The Democrats need to hold it off for 1 fucking week

Shouldn't be too goddammed hard.

[0rganism]

25. It's not that one week they're worried about

it's the five weeks after that are giving them second thoughts.

Personally, I don't think it will matter much to Democrats' campaigns whether they oppose it or not, since the repukes will find something to attack regardless, even if they have to make it up. So the Dems should oppose it, and have a clear response (or, better, preemptive attack) to the obvious line of attack ads charted out beforehand -- lure the GOP money into an easily-discredited commitment, and make them talk about the legislation in the context of Iraqupation. But that's just my opinion, I'm sure the DNC knows better than me how to win in November. :eyes:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. precisely what is wrong with our country. the Democrats in office

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THEM?
Don't they realize that the majority of Americans are simply waiting for them to stand up on principle and do their sworn duty?

It is their failure to stand up that pisses off so many of us. Talk about a failure of leadership and courage.

[Ezlivin]

18. The Democrats can't stand against torture without appearing soft?

I understand that they don't have power to do much, but isn't there a principle involved here? Is it too much to ask them to stand on principle, to ignore the precious election and just say that this is wrong?

It seems that if the Democrats did stand against this, the press would be all over it and it would allow the Democrats to really talk about torture, torture, torture. Perhaps they could even provide a "live" demonstration of some of the techniques on a volunteer (a la "Fear Factor")?

Is every single thing all about winning or losing elections now?

[roseBudd]

26. look what happened to Cleland, this is a Rove trap

[Kolesar]

29. Yes, I think this is the best gambit that Rove could come up with

...it has all the attributes. It is also the kind of simple minded crap that the gop-owned media knows how to run with.

[maseman]

27. You are goddamn right it is about winning or losing

Like my earlier post said that if we lose we still have nothing. We can have the best principles on earth but it doesn't matter if we cannot get those principles into effect through legislation.

Regarding the press, if they were not all owned by right-wing mega companies then the answer would be yes...we could stand up against this torture bill and rely on the media to talk loudly about it. But you'll instead get Wolf Blitzkrieg, Glenn Beck, Tweety, Hannity, etc. that will have one headline and one talking point. Dems are soft on terra.

I hate to say it but the precious election really is precious. If we lose and do not take either house stick a fucking fork in this country because it will sure be done.

[bbgrunt]

19. I am so fuc*ing sick of this democratic party!!!! It is no

wonder that polls show a 25% rating for congress--BOTH parties. This is a bunch of hockey shit that they are protecting themselves against charges of weakness on terrorism. What about defending the constitution and our troops??

And why are'nt those is safe seats not speaking out??

They sure know how to get their mugs on tv to chastise Chavez.

God, they make me puking sick!!!!!!!

[goforit]

24. Kick em all outa Washington.

[Kolesar]

31. Caught you pulling this shit on two threads tonight

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2527113#2527269

[Riddler]

30. Why not just expose McCain for the sell-out traitor he is.

My god, there's certainly enough history of his supposed "heroic" stands, only to back down and kiss *'s ass like the whipped little puppy he is. He's the biggest sell-out hypocrite on Capital Hill and should be exposed as such.

[Kolesar]

32. NY Times and Washington Post editorialized against this

We sure live in a f'ed up world. Note that they did this on a Friday. By Monday, they will have it down to just a few sound bites and a crawl on the 24 hour news channels.

[truthisfreedom]

33. attach a minimum wage bill to it. attach a national health care bill to

it. make them pay!

[Gloria]

35. Jeez, add this to the list of "not supporting our troops" --The Dems

can't put out a list of all the crap the Repugs have done to the military??? No vests, unarmoured vehicles, filthy water, leading the army to the breaking point, screwing up the National Guard to the point that there are none around for emergencies (new story)....etc etc. and NOW condoning torture so that our guys can be fair game now, too??

Give me a break. Paint the big picture. Utterly disgusted with this party over SO MANY THINGS....