DeVos says he wants intelligent design taught in science classes

[chat_noir]

Republican gubernatorial candidate Dick DeVos says Michigan's science curriculum should include a discussion about intelligent design.

He says including intelligent design along with evolution would help students discern the facts among different theories.

"I would like to see the ideas of intelligent design — that many scientists are now suggesting is a very viable alternative theory — that that theory and others that would be considered credible would expose our students to more ideas, not less," DeVos told The Associated Press this week during an interview on education.

Intelligent design's proponents hold that living organisms are so complex they must have been created by a higher force rather than evolving from more primitive forms. Some want science teachers to teach that Darwin's theory of evolution is not a fact and has gaps.

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/politics-0/115877124976220.xml&storylist=newsmichigan

[pinerow]

1. The dumbing down of America...

nt

[physioex]

4. Tell him to teach.....

The Theory of Evolution in Sunday school and we'll consider his proposal....

[Monkeyman]

9. Yep the dumber they are the more they vote Republican

[Wretched Refuse]

78. Its not that

all people who vote Republican are DUMB, it is that the more dumber people are, the more they vote Republican.
Stupid is, as stupid does.

[VegasWolf]

36. Blantant pandering for the Stupid vote. nt

[joemurphy]

Deleted - Inadvertent Duplication n/t

[joemurphy]

2. Devos should have "unintelligent design" taught as well.

And he should submit himself for dissection as a case study.

[endarkenment]

3. Well then the theory can be presented for peer review

and once it is established and accepted as a viable scientific theory by all means it should be taught in science classes. Until then it is not science.

[LynneSin]

5. Yeah, that plan worked well for the Dover School Board

Had their asses tossed out the very next election.

I'm guessing that dumbass comments like that will probably sink his campaign. Yeah for Granholm :woohoo:

[bleedingheart]

6. he wants to further dumb down America to make them buy more Amway crap

[Joe Bacon]

60. Yeah, teach kids to aspire to be an Amway Double Diamond

All that lying to get there. What could be more Christian?

:sarcasm:

[tk2kewl]

7. Maybe we can let kids take pig-latin for their language requirement too

:silly: :crazy:

[pinerow]

8. Now, thats funny....!!!

:toast:

[Lautremont]

50. No, it's unnyfay.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

10. Intelligent Design, circular argument?

If it takes something intelligent to create something intelligent....

which came first, the designer or the designer's designer or the designer's designer's designer.. to infinity and beyond!

I did get one response to that statement on a bulletin board once about the Designer being metaphysical and not needing to be created. They lost me... so if anyone wants to take up that rebuttal and enlighten me, I'm all ears!

Okay eyes since I'm reading the posts.

[endarkenment]

27. It just ain't science.

It isn't just that ID has logical holes, it is that it is not a scientific theory.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

28. I know...

It's not measurable, observable, or verifiable. Hence it solely rests on belief which is then in the Humanities.

But then again M-theory, panes, & quantum theories.... WOH! Talk about outside of human comprohension! <smile>

[Ignacio Upton]

48. Any "theory" that automatically accredits God to something

that is too complex, is merely building on historical rationales for a divine presence. In other words, it's just Creationism-lite. And yet a majority of the public believes it should be taught in schools because they think that there should be "balance" in the class rooms, as if teaching evolution is the same as lib'url bias in the media! Well, what we teach in the name of SCIENCE isn't supposed to present "both sides" just because the fundies are bitching. Science is supposed to be empirical and impartial, based on what we know of the world through the scientific method.

...Also, how do they explain evolutionary flaws in humans, like the appendix and wisdom teeth? How do they explain vestigal parts of our bodies?

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

67. The Less FundiCrowd knows about something

.. the more sure they are.

The more science finds out about things, they find out they know less than they thought.

[Wretched Refuse]

79. Shhhh

"...Also, how do they explain evolutionary flaws in humans, like the appendix and wisdom teeth? How do they explain vestigal parts of our bodies?"

They just SHHH it away. We don't talk about those things.

OR

you get the platitude:

Simple, The Creator has NOT revealed the use of the organ yet. You are too arrogant in your assumed "knowledge of the world" to even begin to understand the creator's ways. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

[kestrel91316]

72. No, it's religious dogma. You DID know that

religious dogma always trumps scientific "fact", right?

'Cause GOD said so.

[gratuitous]

11. And Mr. DeVos' credentials for saying this are . . . ?

Is he a scientist? What experiments did he conduct? Has he written any papers? Submitted any research? Or is he just talking out his ass so as to pander to the dopes who like their Bible Osterized and spoon fed to them like so much pap?

Time to put away childish ways and be a grown-up, Mr. DeVos.

[Wretched Refuse]

80. Just remember to spell it

"Buy Bull"

Yup, that about says it all.

[JerseygirlCT]

12. While I believe in a creator

Intelligent design as science is a total cop-out. It's an "I don't know and I don't care to find out" response to an important scientific question.

Such nonsense.

[Rude Horner]

13. I saw a bumper sticker Monday night that said

"Evolution is science fiction". :puke:

I want to know what "scientists" Mr. DeVos speaks of that are suggesting that intelligent design is a viable alternative theory. I would find that strange, seeing as how there is not a single shred of evidence for it.

[rexcat]

29. The names you will see are...

Michael Behe, PhD; Douglas Alex, PhD; William Dembski, PhD; Paul Chin, PhD; etc.... They are all funded by the Discovery Institute in Seattle, WA. Of importance there is no scientific research supporting ID as a biological theory has been published!

A good book to read concerning this issue is "Creationism's Trojan Horse, The Wedge of Intelligent Design" by Barbara Forrest and Paul R. Gross.

[B3Nut]

62. I saw that sticker a couple months ago...

...was it on a Taurus wagon? I told my father-in-law (teaches cytology and cytotechnology at the UW Madison, as well as working in the Wisc. state hygeine lab) about it, he rolled his eyes and groaned. The car's driver was a youngish girl, had to be not much older than 18. Had the brainwashed, blank look to her, too. Sad.

Oh, hi boss! :hi:

Todd in Beerbratistan

[AX10]

14. Vote Granholm!

http://www.granholmforgov.com/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage2

[sarcasmo]

15. He is pandering to the West Michigan voter base. I am so sick of the

Religious stupidity dumbing down this Country.

[Strawman]

16. Sure. Why not just make the state a complete joke.

What an attractive vision that is. Amway head running the economy and superstitious fundies dictating the science cirriculum.

[pinerow]

19. MLM's in every state...

sheesh!!!

[Charlie Brown]

17. I really want to know about "The Scientific Theory of Intelligent Design"

What predictions does it make, how can it be tested, what evidence led to its adoption, what recurring phenomena does it describe, how can it be falsified, are there credible scientists who support it?

If there are no answers to these questions, then there is no Scientific Theory of ID, and it does not belong in a biology class.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

18. Why do these people even get a podium to put forth their dumb

ass ideas?

[Demeter]

33. He Literally Paid for the Microphone

the man has a fortune to waste, and I'm hoping he does waste it all.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

34. Demeter, one of my favs in the parthenon. n/t

[Demeter]

35. You Are Too Kind!

[Freedom_from_Chains]

37. LOL

:hi:

[pinto]

20. I seriously doubt his Amway training qualifies him to weigh in

on a science curriculum debate. Go figure.

[Wretched Refuse]

81. Why not don' t that Amway shit have all sorts of scientifically sounding

kemikills in it and crap? So, why should he not have unbiased access to the minds of Michigan. He is FUNDA-MENT-ill. Will the Michigan tax structure be turned over to MLM?

[Ediacara]

21. I suppose he's unfamiliar with instances where that was tried...

...and how it was found to be illegal. But then again, his papa founded a company that can be considered an illegal pyramid scheme, and ended up paying a CAD $25M fine for tax evasion in Canada; so I wouldn't surprised if DeVos is unfamiliar with the law.

[AnneD]

22. So....

are we going to be brainwashed with Amway products??????

[TygrBright]

23. Only if they ALSO teach intelligent falling...

...as noted here:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512

They're equally as relevant to real science.

helpfully,
Bright

[DuaneBidoux]

76. That is super funny! thanks.

[Bandit]

24. What is their proved hypothesis they use to advance their theory?

If it is to be taught in science class there must by a hypothesis to work from. When someone argues in such a manor they demonstrate ignorance in science and in English language. And this person is running for governor????

[MaineYooper]

25. Intelligent design makes exactly one prediction:

Intelligent Design's one prediction is that there will always be *something* that our theories don't explain, and therefore that's where the designer *must* come in.

</sarcasm>

(It's just a minor detail that what can't be predicted is always changing...

</more sarcasm>

[jayctravis]

41. Isn't that basically Godel's incompleteness theorem? (n/t)

[patcox2]

26. I agree, children should be taught that ID is a fraud.

I am all for teaching kids about ID, telling them exactly what is wring with it, why its junk science, how it is all part of a theocratic agenda on the part of the religious right, and how and why it is unconstitutional. It would be a combined science/social studies course.

[truthisfreedom]

30. ridiculous. science is not religion. let them go to church to learn so-

called "intelligent design."

[daleo]

31. It just doesn't belong in a science class

Philosophy perhaps, not science. It is like saying magnets attract iron because God pushes certain types of metal towards magnets.

[ixion]

32. the primary 'fact' about 'intelligent design': it is entirely fiction

and there is no basis whatsoever in science to back up the assertions of those who support the fairy tale, er, I mean theory.

[Occulus]

43. Trivia question: from which religion does this fucked-up view emanate? n/t

[jljamison]

38. Intelligent Design easily debunked

I can tell you flat out Intelligent Design is bunk. As any parent knows, if an Intelligent Designer had designed parents, he or she would have included at least 3 arms with one not less than 10 feet long. Two short 24-35 inch arms is completely unintelligent for parenting.

[Nihil]

56. Yeah well ...

... remember that humans came along at the end of the week ...
either ran out of parts or left it to the untrained newby to finish ...

Now you know why your Dad told you never to buy a car made on the
Friday late shift!

:-)

[Miss Chybil]

39. So who created the higher force?

Shouldn't we add a class for the God god?

[skipos]

40. Reason number 6,872 not to vote for this a$$h#le. nt

[MaineDem]

42. The Republican candidate in Maine has said that, too

Scary.

[OregonDem]

44. Yeah we should abandon the single greatest discovery in the field

biology that has been supported by 150 years of research just because it makes fundamentalists uncomfortable about their religious beliefs. Its fine if they want to prevent their children from having a scientific career by teaching creationism, but don't make American public schools fall further behind in the science department by having them teach junk science.

Using their arguments....
For God to be a perfect being and the creator of the world he must of been more complex than the Earth. Therefore he cannot exist unless someone created him who is a higher force or more complex than God is. Since God created everything than nothing could existed to have created him. Therefore God does not exist.

[OregonDem]

45. I wonder sometimes if all republicans politicians who support this are

just stupid or are just saying this nonsence in order to get the fundies to pull the lever for them. Some of them seem to use the abortion issue just as a way to get the fundies to vote for them also.

[Anakin Skywalker]

46. Definitely the latter. Politicians are not stupid.

Quite the contrary. They are very clever, good at MANIPULATING the religious bigots out there.

[toughboy]

47. Learned it in Sunday School

Isn't that what churches are for? It's a religious belief, not really science. Sounds like lazy parents to me.

[VegasWolf]

49. Well, if Intelligent Design were presented in the right way it would be OK

The right way of course, is for the science teacher to be rolling on the floor and laughing his ass off. He(she) should also tell them that if they want to hear even more improbable, ridiculous stories they should check out the fundie church down the road where they kiss snakes.

[Akoto]

51. Given the state of the world, Idiotic Design would be appropriate. n/t

[hatrack]

52. How does running the world's most successful pyramid scheme . . .

. . . qualify this guy to become governor of a state?

Oh, yeah, I forgot - he's a Republican.

:eyes:

[VegasWolf]

75. Money! Given enough money even a monkey could be President. nt

[NMMNG]

53. WTF?

"I would like to see the ideas of intelligent design — that many scientists are now suggesting is a very viable alternative theory...


Who are these "many scientists", and what are their credentials?

[sakabatou]

54. If they're gonna teach ID

They gotta teach FSM.

[w4rma]

55. How do you "teach" ID in school? Do you make HS students read Genesis?

Religion belongs in religion class or in church. It does not belong anywhere near a science class. No where near a science class.

There is zero physical proof for ID outside of a religious text. The entire hard science of biology is based on the foundation of evolution, however.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

57. I hope this doesn't need to be said in this forum...

but no liberal or progressive should ever spend a dime on Amway products. The company is wholly owned and operated by right-wing assholes. And frankly, most of their sales force are Bushbots.

[Bozita]

58. Intelligent design OK for science class, DeVos (Amway) says

Front page, above the fold.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006609210320

Intelligent design OK for science class, DeVos says

Volatile social debate enters governor's race

BY CHRIS CHRISTOFF and LORI HIGGINS
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

September 21, 2006

Republican candidate Dick DeVos said Michigan school districts should be allowed to teach intelligent design in science classes as a possible explanation of diverse life on Earth, injecting the national debate over evolution into the campaign.

"Lots of intelligent people can disagree about the origins of life. In the end, I believe in our system of local control," he said in a news release Wednesday afternoon. "Local school boards should have the opportunity to offer evolution and intelligent design in their curriculums."

DeVos said exposing students to the concept of intelligent design -- viewed by most scientists as a nonscientific, religion-based belief -- would help them analyze competing theories.

Many educators and policymakers, including Gov. Jennifer Granholm, say they wouldn't object to discussing intelligent design in classes such as philosophy or comparative religion -- but not in science classes.

more...

[trogdor]

59. The FSM is not amused.

I'm pretty sick of these people who throw out a bunch of bullshit and then insist we're closed-minded for not wanting to debate it. I'm also sick of people who think they have to debate the bullshit because it's out there. Why doesn't someone with some authority and influence (not me) simply say, "I'm not playing. This idea of yours is so absurd it doesn't deserve debate."

[Giant Robot]

61. Dear God in the Heavens

Can you please explain intelligent design to me? I do not understand how, if Your design was so intelligent, that we have monkeys like DeVos pretending to be men. I hope this was not too impertinent of me to ask.

[noonwitch]

63. Intelligent design should be taught in Sunday school or parochial school

The latter for parents who want to pay to make their students dumb.

[HeardOnTheHill]

64. DeVos' Record on Schools

DeVos is apparently a busy guy who's never had time for things like education and children. According to the MDP, DeVos missed over 50% of his meetings when he served as a Grand Valley State Board member, and he resigned his Engler-appointed post on the State Board of Education after just two years of his eight year term. Interesting that he's suddenly turing his attention to education issues (by which I mean enforcing his Dominionist agenda) with an election looming.

[trixie]

65. This will help us defeat him

The idiot!

[Jose Diablo]

66. Yeah, yeah Devos probably wants to set-up Amway

booths in every classroom also. Who cares what that puk wants?

[Raster]

68. Please teach I.D. Make sure the curriculum states that aliens impregnated

lower-level primates to produce the human race. Intelligently, of course.

[Realityhack]

69. IDiot n/t

[sarcasmo]

70. No more Science text books in School. The Bible will be all these FOOLS

Need.

[Josh]

71. Well he just lost the election

nt.

[WindRavenX]

73. Fucking idiot

It ain't science, it's theology/philosophy and I WILL NOT EVER teach ID in MY classroom.

[stepnw1f]

74. Evil Politicians Feeding America Shit

so they and their corporations can control mindless idiots who believe in fairytales.

[KamaAina]

77. In other words, he doesn't want Michigan students accepted to college

Ye gods! Even Granholm's repuke predecessor Engler supported higher education in Mich.!

Dudes, lose the Amway crap and go get some Simple Green or something!