Anti-Pope Demonstrations Rage on

[ECH1969]

Schools and shops in Kashmir shut their doors in protest and demonstrators burned an effigy of Pope Benedict XVI. In Lebanon, armed police stood guard outside some churches, and Muslims in Indonesia marched through the capital yesterday as tensions remained high over the pontiff's remarks on Islam.

"His comments really hurt Muslims all over the world," Umar Nawawi of the radical Islamic Defenders' Front said yesterday. "We should remind him not to say such things which can only fuel a holy war."

In the Middle East, where Muslims hurled firebombs at seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the weekend, Christian leaders posted guards outside some churches.

The protests and violence have stirred up memories of the fury over cartoons that were published in a Danish newspaper of Mohammed, as well as fears of violence against Christians.

http://www.aina.org/news/20060919152543.htm

[Demeter]

1. There's A Lot of Hostility to the Christian West Among Muslims

a fact which totally escaped the PNAC NeoCon warmongers and policy planners....

[msongs]

2. or maybe these "protests" are over rated propaganda?

and though these specific incidents may be real, there is really not that much of it going on, so the media take a small amount and try to make it a bigger deal than it is?

as in 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of muslims are not THAT concerned about an old
man in Rome and whatever mumbles he may have.

would the media really do that?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[CJCRANE]

19. It's like when say the "Middle East"

when referring to Israel/Palestine which are in fact tiny countries/territories, not much more than a dot on the map of the Arabian Peninsula.

[Spearman87]

48. Me, I would hope most of them are concerned

They should be. The Pope is much more influential in other parts of the world than he is here. The key quote:

“Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached”


The leader of a worldwide religion comes out and says that about your faith—that it has contributed only evil to the world, and I think you ought to be concerned. I’ve not studied Islam, but come on, is it 100% evil? Now, he was actually quoting somebody else, and I’m sure radical media outlets took glee in quoting him out of context, but that was poor jugdement to use that passage. Now personally I’m pretty concerned that there seems to be a bigger number of Muslims becoming radicalized. The movement looks to be on the rise, and I think it’s already in the single digits, percentage-wise, of all Muslims. Maybe that’s part of what the Pope was trying to preach against, but what I dumb way to go about it.

Anyhow, it reminds me of when you saw riots in some US urban Black areas. Maybe only a very small percentage of Blacks were involved, but I think it’s fair to say that most Blacks were concerned about the situation for Blacks in America, and they should be. Same with peaceful, faithful followers of Islam who are informed by the Pope that Mohammed contributed only evil to the world.

[VegasWolf]

3. Sure is a lot of animosity towards the senile old fart. nt

[anotherdrew]

4. do these people have one goddamned thing else to do with their lives?

or is that a picture of a band of klingons marooned on earth?
seriously can't these guys be hired into make work office jobs and then jack their rents up so they're spending 50 hours a week or more on work?

[treestar]

45. Contrasts with the apathy in the US quite a bit, doesn't it?

But then their countries don't have bombs and WMD to defend them with. They feel more threatened, so expecting them to have equal equanimity in the face of Western disdain for them is applying a double standard.

[brentspeak]

62. Oh my gosh...

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[treestar]

95. Impossible to respond when one cannot tell what you mean.

[maxsolomon]

51. They probably don't

unemployment of young muslim males is one of the biggest driving forces of Jihad. blame external forces.

your solution is flippant, but is actually the policy we shouldhave followed immediately upone invading Iraq. fully employ the male populace, even if its shoveling shit. look how complacent america is - we're all at work, both parents, full time. there's no time, and no energy to riot.

[brentspeak]

63. The first sentence in the article said that "schools and shops closed"

These people DID have something better to do with their day.

[maxsolomon]

71. i'm just sayin

full employment would defuse some of this sentiment.

they're in a fanaticism spiral - everyone must demonstrate their fanaticism publicly or they are suspect.

[razors edge]

5. damn these dudes are tough

they were all right there in the same place yesterday with the exact same look on their face.

I'd watch out for anyone with that kinda determination and stamina.

[greccogirl]

6. I wish these people

would figure out that when they react like this they are only proving the person's point.

[davidinalameda]

7. a voice of reason!

I really love how some of these people say that Islam isn't a violent revision but then issue death threats against the Pope, fire bomb churches and kill a nun

:wtf:

[treestar]

42. Because they aren't the same people, maybe?

[PsychoDad]

83. There are upward of 2 billion Muslims on Earth.

If Islam were a violent religion then there would be more than a handful of death threats and a nun killed.

If only 1% were bent on violent Jihad and death then you would have a combination of 20 Million Suicide bombers, Hijackers, Violent demonstrators, etc... A number which would be quite noticeable in the MSM. Indeed given the number of American Muslims, it might be personally noticeable in major US Cities..

As there currently doesn't seem to be the worldwide complications of 20 million Jihadists going after the US or the Pope, or even killing Nuns or anyone else, one is forced to conclude that the overwhelming majority (more than 99%) is peaceful.

In any religion where such an overwhelming number of practitioners are peaceful, I would consider the teachings and observance of said religion peaceful.

Peace.

[Yupster]

8. Personally I think the answer to this crap

is to make as many jokes as you can about Islam and repeat them over and over.

Eventually the angry mobs will realize that their religion gets along just fine even if someone somewhere insults it.

I don't think apologizing for making them mad is the right way to go.

[LeighAnn]

9. Why say things to incite them in the first place?

Didn't anyone learn from Salman Rushdie?

What would the right wing's reaction be if Ahmadinejad had gone to the UN tonight and said those same things about Jesus Christ? They would be on Hannity and O'Reilly begging Bush to bomb Iran. All fundies are dangerous when their religious sensibilities have been offended. Some blow things up, others drop bombs. Why even start it all in the first place?

[Yupster]

13. Because if we refuse to speak out

because we're afraid thugs will hurt us, then we don't even have to have our rights taken away from us because we're freely giving them away.

[cali]

15. Your post is

fucking appalling re Salmon Rushdie. Are you seriously suggesting that people such as Rushdie should curb their artistic expression to placate a vocal and violent religious minority. Sickening.

[LeighAnn]

17. The Pope isn't a poet

When Salman Rushdie says it, he has only to worry about his own safety. When the Pope says things like that, he endangers Catholics all over the world. Irresponsible.

[cali]

29. Gee, I hate to break this to you

but you're the one that suggested that Rushdie shouldn't have written his book. As I said, sickening.

[LeighAnn]

38. I didn't say he shouldn't have written it.

I said, didn't anyone learn from that experience: That if you say bad things about Mohammad, radical Muslims are going to riot in the streets and call for your killing. That's what the world learned from Salman Rushdie.

[Book Lover]

68. As a matter of fact, someone did learn something from that experience

Rushdie wrote Haroun and the Sea of Stories after The Satanic Verses and in its allegory you will find his answer to your question. And by the way, it was not to shut up.

[treestar]

46. No the OP did not say that. Your attributing it like that is what is

sickening, Rushdie was just an example to show how passionate SOME Muslims can get, as anyone can see.

[anotherdrew]

18. ever have to deal with a bully? n/t

[treestar]

44. True, didn't they get all angry when Chavez called Bush the Devil?

You would think they would take that in stride because that's what they expect from the Muslims.

[Hoping4Change]

101. Muslims are in a knot because they have made Mohammed an idol.

Muslims are totally blind to this fact because they assume an idol is an object but an idol as defined by Princeton's wordnet,is

-someone who is adored blindly and excessively
-paragon: an ideal instance; a perfect embodiment of a concept
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Excessive adoration of someone. If that doesn't describe Muslim attitude to Mohammed, I don't know what does. And because Mohammed has become an idol, Muslims are unable to accept the fact that non-Muslims don't treat him as a sacred cow.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Yes, that'll work.

It's like back when those uppity black people were so angry about their waterfountains. Just keep making fun of them.

:crazy:

[geek tragedy]

33. You're comparing freedom against apartheid to freedom from

having your prophet blasphemed?

Those people taking to the streets over something the Pope said need to get lives and jobs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. I'm comparing one blatant case of bigotry with another.

Upset that they're protesting, eh? Do you hate them for their freedoms?

[geek tragedy]

35. No, I just find their response to be extraordinarily immature.

They get their noses all out of joint because someone blasphemes their religion.

Boo fucking hoo. Happens to Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics, Wiccans, etc all the time. You didn't find Jews firebombing Mel Gibson's offices or home.

If they want Islam and Mohammed to be above criticism in their own countries, that's their call. But, in free lands people have the right to critique religion and even historical sacred cows like Mohammed and Jesus.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Geek, if Jews had firebombed Mel Gibson's home...

would you be saying "boy, that Gibson fellow sure was right about the Jews?"

[geek tragedy]

37. Well, they didn't, did they? eom

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. What if they did?

[geek tragedy]

40. I can't react to something that didn't happen.

Jews across the globe shrugged their shoulders and said "Mel Gibson is an asshole."

They mostly laughed at him.

[hogwyld]

49. You may find it immature

But the people of Muslim faith actually still care about their prophets. The western world should STFU on matters of Islam. We have no right whatsoever making fun or critisizing their faith.

[pampango]

53. Who decides what other issues I have to STFU about?

I do not believe it is appropriate to gratuitously insult or make fun of anyone or anything. One of my rights is to express an opinion on just about anything I want, whether I know anything about it or not.

Should I not be allowed criticize Star Wars missile defense because I sure don't know the technical details of how it is supposed to work? Should the scientists, engineers and contractors not allow me to speak because I just don't understand how they much they believe in their work?

I believe that it is live-and-let-live as far as a person's religion or lack of religion. Religions, though, should be open to public analysis in an open society whether it is Catholic, Baptist, Mormon or Islam.

[hogwyld]

54. Of course, if you criticise the scientist

They're not going to go off on a killing spree, burning things either. People of Muslim faith do not take criticism well, and thus should be left alone.

[pampango]

56. "People of Muslim faith do not take criticism well"

You make them sound like children. Should people not criticize Bush because he reacts violently?

I contend that Muslims can take criticism as well as any of the rest of us. Perhaps there is just a small minority among Muslims who have an interest in promoting loud, sometimes violent, reactions to any perceived slight.

Does my freedom of speech end when I say something that someone else does not like? Or only when they don't like it enough to stage a public demonstration, or to throw a stone through a window, or to shoot someone?

By your reasoning I could not criticize the KKK, the Nazis, Timothy McVeigh or anyone else who cared enough to respond violently.

[hogwyld]

57. I don ot impinge on your right to speak

But you must also take responsiblity for the reaction as well. It is not likely that you will be the one hurt or killed by your words, but more likely someone innocent that will "pay" for your insults. There is a BIG difference in condemning the KKK, Nazi's etc. on the canard of right/wrong. What is to be gained by ridiculing a revered prophet for many people?

[pampango]

61. You are right that I am responsible for the consequences of my...

speech. I am also responsible for my reactions to the speech of others. I have spent a lot of energy teaching my now 17 year old son, that he is not responsible for what other people say and do, but he is responsible for how he reacts to their words and actions.

You are also right that there is nothing "to be gained by ridiculing a revered prophet for many people. Do I think that I have the right to express an opinion, informed or otherwise, about the Pope, southern Baptists, etc.? You bet I do. I express many opinions that, I am sure, more informed people just shake their heads at and wonder how I can be so uninformed.

Now my wife is Catholic, and we question the Pope almost all the time. Would I be a little less free if I had to keep my papal opinions to myself because angry Catholics might burn down my house or maybe just my neighbor's house. Yes, I would.

[hogwyld]

65. I too make an ass of myself on a daily basis

I'm too uninformed to know I'm uninformed. But critisizing Christians is different in that, being a generally western religion, has become accustomed to the barbs of godless heathens. Islam on the other hand, has had to deal with colonialism, crusades, the percieved theft of oil. They have not had the spiritual reformation that Christianity went through. Oh, BTW, WELCOME to DU:hi:

[pampango]

66. Thanks for the welcome. Nice talking to you. n/t

[hogwyld]

69. The pleasure is mine!

It's nice to have an intelligentt, respectful discussion that doesn't degenereate into name-calling.

[AngryOldDem]

70. Moreover, the Pope is about THE biggest symbol of Christianity

Nevermind the fact that he speaks for only one branch of it. He put a face to what **too** many see as a war between Christianity and Islam, and it's hard to really counterargue. I'm convinced that Benedict knew exactly what he was doing, and he should stop the sham outreach to Moslem leaders. They've been insulted enough.

[fujiyama]

80. Fuck that!

I'll criticize whomever the fuck I want!

This is nuts. They really have to get the fuck over themselves. There are legitimate greivances and I thought the Pope's comment wasn't the brightest in the world, but I'll be damned if we're going to have fundamentalists free from criticism and ridicule.

Muslims, Christians, and everyone else can take their phony prophets and ^%$&%^&$%^. You get the point!

[hogwyld]

93. It's easy for you to be militant

Sitting over here safe and sound, secure from any riots. What about the people who will ultimately pay the price for your hurtful words? I always thought progressives were sensitive to other peoples cultures and beliefs.

[fujiyama]

103. As I said the Pope should have used better judgement

but the reaction is unacceptable. Death threats and violence however are not a civilized form of protest - ANYWHERE.

And nothing excuses that. I understand there is a lot of anger and paranoia in Muslim countries, and some of it is justified. But it's clear that a lot of it is also irrational and simply hysterical fanaticism.

[Spinoza]

100. Bull fucking shit.

I reserve the right to criticize, ridicule and make fun of anyone. Period. Fuck Jesus, Fuck Moses, , Fuck Marx and Fuck Mohammed (Praised be his name.)I have no respect for any religion or religious figure and I don't care if that pisses off other people. People who mock or ridicule my belief in atheism deeply offend and piss me off but that doesn't mean they aren't entitled to offend and piss me off all they like. Just as I am entitled to offend and piss them off. Fair is fair. Free speech is free speech.

[treestar]

47. Well they don't exactly live in America

It is not really fair to judge them by standards of what they should be doing with their time that are rubber stamped in the U.S.

But they are more passionate about their religion than we are. We treat ours generally speaking in a much more blase manner. We can't just expect them to pick up our attitude all of a sudden.

The Muslim religion has certain aspects to it that make its followers more passionate about it. We have to deal with that, just judging them because they don't act like Westerners gets us nowhere.

[fujiyama]

81. I think we CAN judge people that react this way

and we should.

Free expression worldwide is threatened by lunacy like this. Now, the Pope is a moron and in this case, free expression would likely be a weak defense (being that the Pope also endorses censorship when something offends him and his own role is very different from the cartoonists that were threatened).

But this reaction is completely nuts. It's clear most Muslim countries have an EXTREMELY limited view of free expression, which I consider a human right.

[treestar]

94. What reaction though? If they want to march in the streets yelling

they have every right to do that. If they actually try to hurt somebody, that's another issue. But Muslims yelling "Death to x" is not something necessarily to take literally - we make fun of it in Western terms and so that means we don't really feel threatened.

Also, if you read the Pope's speech, it is so academic and so boring that they cannot be reacting to it - they must be reacting to something from the media.

We let the media yank our chain constantly with this kind of thing. For instance, I read about Arab-Americans who marched in an anti-Saddam rally, in support of their country the U.S., in Dearborn Michigan, in the Nation, but you can bet the MSM did not cover that. It was in 2003 and I'd never heard about it before. So we can have no idea how many Muslims think, the MSM is only going to cover the extremists.

[treestar]

43. Great idea, you are absolutely right. They aren't used to it

given that it it often the state religion in their countries. But God forbid we should make any attempt to understand them. :sarcasm:

[Hoping4Change]

97. Their response just shows how miserably Islamic societies have been

to educate their people. These outraged over-the-top responses simply reveal uneducated minds. These yahoos are like the uneducated yahoos in Jerry Springer's audience.

[Erika]

10. I'll post once more about how sick I am of religion!

I don't care if it's Christian, Catholic, Islam, Jewish,etc. You're all trying to start wars without a second of concern about peace.

Can you please keep your religion out of my face and check book?

[ECH1969]

14. good idea

[Mojorabbit]

11. I see the look on those faces and

it seems to me that a religious/cultural based confrontation is going to happen sometime in the future. I am starting to believe that no matter how much anyone tries to avoid it it is inevitable. Too many zealots in this world.

[Irreverend IX]

12. Muslims to Pope: Die!

Pope to Muslims: No, no, no...! You will die! (force lightning)

Those guys should know better than to mess with a Dark Lord of the Sith.

[bleedingheart]

16. the people committing violence over the Pope's words are stupid

sorry that is it...they are just stupid.

They are fitting the stereotype that is being painted of them by the supposed "christian" extremists...that they hate Christians, Jews and anyone else. They are fueling the anti-muslim rhetoric.

Ignoring the Pope would have been a far more civilized and adult way to handle it....between this and the cartoon incident....

[ECH1969]

20. Papal assassin warns Benedict his 'life is in danger' if he visits Turkey

Pope Benedict faces a growing chorus of demands to make an unequivocal apology for remarks seen as portraying Islam as a violent faith, despite attempts by Western leaders and churchmen to defuse the crisis.

The calls came as it emerged papal hitman Mehmet Ali Agca, who is serving a life sentence for the attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II in May 1981, has written to Pope Benedict XVI from jail, warning him not to go to Turkey as planned in November in the light of his remarks.

Agca, a Turk gave his ominous warning in a letter to an Italian daily newspaper.

Agca was jailed for his attempted assassination of Pope John Paul II in St Peter's Square in May 1981 and in 2000 he was allowed to return to Turkey to serve the rest of his sentence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=405994&in_page_id=1770

[pinerow]

21. It may be wise to heed this...

coming, as it does, from a convicted shooter...

[Virginia Dare]

22. This is a runaway train picking up speed....

when in November is this supposed to happen (his visit), before or after the elections?

[greyl]

23. Benny already "apologized".

http://romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/2006/09/the_holy_father.html

[Demeter]

24. NOT Exactly An Apology

He said he was sorry that other people felt hurt, not that he was an insensitive, inconsiderate ass.

[NOLADEM]

27. Yep, he gave the patented Repube apology

I am sorry if you mistakenly misinterpreted something I said and offended yourself, but don't blame me.

Real apology.

:eyes:

He is and has always been a bigot, and he better be careful, or the people he pissed off are going to attack him.

Me, I don't care...Having invisible friends is stupid, no matter what little names you give your invisible friends. They all need medication.

[goforit]

25. Irresponsibility with words is a high price to pay when you have to look

over your shoulder for the rest of your life.

Only LOVE can rule the world not HATE....Mr. Benedick!!!

[VegasWolf]

26. Benedict is a uniter not a divider! nt

[MrPrax]

28. This is a news story?

The idiot is in prison and he writes a crank letter to a newspaper in Rome? Then this news story is a wrap up of all the vile things they can speculate on to catapult the war on terror...it's stupid.

How the hell would Agca even be in any position in a prison to know anymore about it than MrPrax?

And what with the demand that he resign so an Italian pope be elected?

"Then you must return to your native land (Germany) and in your place an Italian cardinal can be elected Pope, possibly (cardinal Dionigi) Tettamanzi or (cardinal Tarcisio) Bertone. (from OP link)

Sounds like a more interesting story buried down below about misgivings some elite Catholics might have with old Ratboy...but why not go for the fear route and angry up the Catholics.

Agca was part of a highly suspicious group called the Grey Wolves which were political and had little or nothing to do with Islam. In fact this group has been linked to western intelligence operations from the 70s around the time of the P2 Salo hijinx, which should be instructive to anyone interested in 'terrorism' -- scratch virtually any of those so-called terror groups and you usually find a spook lurking about directing it.

It's stupid -- I am sure old Ratzie doesn't need Agca to tell him, he is in danger...even as we speak there maybe long knives being sharpened somewhere deep in the bowels of some rectory involving 'friends' of the Church'

The last Italian pope was John Paul 1 and he lasted 33 days!


Bologna Train Station Bombing -- 75 dead
Good old days...
when terrorist were criminals and didn't warrant Presidential comment, let alone an entire foreign policy diversion

[hogwyld]

31. Maybe this was the plan all along

Catholics are familiar with the St. Malachi (sp?) prophecy of only 2 names left on the list of popes before the rupture. What better way to speed this up than to piss off the muslim world, then take a jaunt ot Muslim Turkey?

[PittPoliSci]

32. got nothing against church...or any of the people that go there...

:D

[JVS]

41. Rah rah rah! Go Pius XIII!

Oh wait, you mean this is a rally against the Pope, and not a rally for the Anti-pope? Bummer!

[BoneDaddy]

50. These people are insane

I mean COME ON FOLKS, lets get real. They rage about the Pope's words yet the Pope's words are just words. The Pope spoke irresponsibly, these people act despicably.

The Islamic world is rife with anti western, anti christian, anti judaism commentary and one brief allusion to a centuries old debate that painted Islam in a bad light need not be replied to this way. It totally reinforces the stereotype that Islam is a religion of violence (which I do not believe).

[mvd]

52. None of the major religions are really violent religions

The fundies of all religions take their scripture literally - Muhammad's violence comment, or the Old Testament for example. The Pope has too much of an idea that the Catholic faith is the true faith, as do some moderate Catholics (the Pope being a moderate is questionable.) Same idea with moderate Muslims. So while the idea of religion doesn't bother me, the only way it will truly be effective is to allow different viewpoints and work together. We all worship God in our own way, which should be respected.

[BoneDaddy]

55. I agree

But the Catholics are not blowing up people who disagree with them, althought they did at one time in history. Believe me, as an ex-Catholic I have plenty of disagreement with the church, but it really cannot be compared to fundamentalist Islam which is a ticking time bomb.

[mvd]

60. Well, I am a Catholic and I agree that they aren't..

like the fundamentalist Protestants and extremist Muslims. But it seems like they've gotten too close for comfort lately to those fundamentalist Protestants. Opus Dei is a problem.

[BoneDaddy]

85. True

Most Catholics I know are pretty much middle of the road, although I do know a small minority that are as fundie as the "born again" crowd and rabid in their "faith".

It was the Jesuit priests who taught me the value of logic and rationality as well as critical thinking. So the camp is big among Catholics.

[hogwyld]

59. So why does the western world

have a constant need to belittle the sacred prophet of a billion people? If the western world would quit poking sticks at the hornets nest, we would not be debating this. But it is our arrogance in telling them what they should believe, and how, that oppressed people reach a point of frustration.

[brentspeak]

64. "Oppressed people"

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Who's "oppressing" the majority of Muslims in Muslim countries? Their own governments. Or more specifically, themselves.

[hogwyld]

67. But the oppression comes from the orders of the moneychangers

Bushco and the other "civilized" leaders, in their quest for cheap oil, cheap labor, or cheap raw materials have the rulihg class keep the people under iron heels.

[maxsolomon]

73. well, then welcome to the struggle, muslim brothers

because none of that is different that the reality experienced by the poor in S. America, SE Asia, Appalachia, the Rust Belt, Mexico, etc. ad nausem.

[hogwyld]

75. You forgot the difference

The other people you mentioned want the world's help. The Muslim people want to be left alone.

[maxsolomon]

76. so they want... FREEDOM?

i thought they HATED FREEDOM! ha, funny.

i'm not so sure about your assessment. certainly they want freedom FROM us & our proxy state of Israel & our apostacy & our resource exploitation & our economic hegemony & our cultural imperialism.

but left alone? left alone how? more than Chiapas wants to be left alone? the world can't go away. THE MUSLIM WORLD MUST LEARN TO DEAL WITH INFIDELS IN A RATIONAL MANNER. especially if they want to immigrate to Secular Europe.

[hogwyld]

77. Or better yet, the infidels can learn

To treat the Islamic faith with the respect and deference it demands.

[maxsolomon]

78. sorry, i can't really treat any Monotheism that way

after all, its the same God as Judaism & Christianity - neither of which, knowing the histories as well as i do, i have any respect or deference for. and, as a Godless Western Hedonist, i have no obligation to do so. such is the meaning of freedom of religion.

and i daresay there's not much short of conversion or 100% deference that would satisfy Islam at this point.

[BoneDaddy]

90. Should we respect

the mullahs who preach hatred of the West and the death and destruction of Israel and the US and it's allies?

the oppression of rational and independent thought that does not occur in many of these countries?

the monarchies and theocracies that force a dangerous form of Islam down their people's throats?

the total absence of civil and human rights that occur in these countries?

the treatment and subjugation of women in Islam?

the beheadings, the cutting off of feet and hands and other such wonderful forms of torture and mutilation?

I am just curious...how does this command respect?

I say grow up, put the superstitions away and then you will get respect.

[cigsandcoffee]

91. Are you kidding?

Honestly, I really hope that's sarcastic.

[cali]

102. Fuck that.

I reserver the right to be as critical as I damn well please about fundamentalists of all stripes. By your criteria, there would be no discussion, works of art would not be created, literature would remain unwritten, etc. You may wish to impose a moratorium on anything critical of Islam, but in order to be consistent you'd have to espouse the same for other religions. Where does this lead us?

[JVS]

86. You don't think people elsewhere want to be left alone?

[BoneDaddy]

89. If the Islamic community

wants to be treated with respect, they need to step into the 21st century and stop living with a 12th century mentality. Time to grow up. Your religion, albeit, important to people is open to critical thinking, criticism, observation and ultimately judgement if one wishes to be considered a player on the world stage.

I feel the same way about Christianity, Judaism and any other ism. Your religion is NOT a sacred cow. I, the world and anyone else has the right to say anything they want about someone's "faith" without the fear of being killed because someone took "offense".

Did the Pope show poor judgement at a critical time in the world, of course he did. I am not defending the man. I happen to be in disagreement with him on most issues of import. But to overlook the church bombings, the murdered Italian nun and other highly destructive responses to the Pope's words, I have only disappointment, sadness and anger for those who do such acts.

[Rex]

58. The Pope is an intelligent man, he had to know

the verse he quoted would incite violence in the Muslim world.

I've gotten into arguments over this one and I agree with some people; Pope John Paul II he ain't. Not even close.

[maxsolomon]

72. no he DIDN'T have to know

he's a senile old fart who's expertise is in theological disputes - he's largely divorced from lay ministry. he is who he is, and given his age, he probably sees himself as a placeholder, like John Paul 1. i doubt that any calculation whatsover was made about Islam's reaction.

should it have been? sure i guess, but i'm getting very tired of Islam's endless fount of ignorant overreaction.

his quote was within a context. that context was removed for the vast majority of those who heard the quote. it doesn't even make sense without the context.

[hogwyld]

74. Given the history of the 2 religions

He had to know that blaspheming the prophet would incite anger. It's all fine and dandy for hime to stir up the hornet's nest when he's sitting in Vatican city. Once he travels to Turkey, he just might get stung.

[fujiyama]

82. Were the Danish cartoons also "poking a hornet's nest"?

Why can every other religion be made fun of other than Islam?

Sorry, your rationalization for this really disgusts me. Free expression requires maturity and these people are clearly very immature. Their inability to take criticism is stunning and I am left respecting their countries even less than I did earlier (and I'm someone that thinks the Pope is a stupid old Nazi bastard).

[hogwyld]

92. Clearly, you have no concern for other people's culture

To insult the prophet Mohammed is the gravest of injustices in the Islamic world, and to ignore their objections shows cultural insensitivity. So by your reasoning, the KKK is free to go after blacks, jews, gays, etc.

[Lurking Dem]

98. The KKK is free

to insult blacks, Jews, gays, etc. They are not free to shoot nuns or bomb churches. Nor should Muslims be.

And when the KKK or the Nazi Party has an event that is over the top, everyone else is free to tell them how full of shit they are.

[BoneDaddy]

104. That does not matter at all

The Pope needs to be held accountable for an insensitive comment, but that is what it was. However disappointing I find him as a statesman does not equate killing the Christian Clergy or destroying churches. And where are the calls for peace coming from?

[Rex]

79. He should have at least looked over what he was reading, or is that

to much to ask for from the frigging Pope? I agree with you, but doubt he is senile or old. JPII was old and senile. Benny will get there. Ya Islams endless fount of ignorant overreaction gets to me too now. But we don't control the world.

Everything is taken out of context in our present world. Just look at the M$M and the slimy politicians who love using things out of context. How about all the religious people who take the Bible/Torah/Koran out of context!!!!

It is a sign of the times.

[PsychoDad]

84. I make out all of 6 people in that demonstration....

If there were so many outraged souls, perhaps the photographer should have used a wide angle shot?

This picture reminds me of the photos of the Saddam statue toppling crowd. We were shown close in pics that may have been from a large crowd, but the wide angle showed just a small group, and many of the journalists.

Let's see these large crowds... Otherwise these could just be very small groups.

Peace.

[Bridget Burke]

87. Images from Google for "Muslims protest Pope"

No very large groups at all. http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=muslims+protest+pope&btnG=Search

[Crayson]

88. I wish The Rapture would come tomorrow...

... and take all the religious people away to their promised Heavens/Edens/Walhallas/Paradises!

Then reasonable people could live in peace.

[Hoping4Change]

96. I wish these Muslims would show the same outrage about Dafur.

I am soooooooooooooo impressed by Muslim's outrage over suggestion that Islam shows violent tendencies yet there are no mass protests about Dafur where Muslims are slaughtering, raping, starving fellow Muslims.

[pampango]

99. Just be thankful that it is not Jews or Christians that are

slaughtering the Muslims of Darfur. Unless the slaughter of their fellow Muslims is not considered as serious as blasphemous cartoons or insulting academic speeches, you can imagine the holy hell (is that blasphemous?) that that would bring to the Muslim street.

The thousand or so Muslims killed by Israel in Lebanon, whether intentionally or as "collateral damage," were a tragedy, but what about the much greater numbers of Muslims killed in Darfur or by the Sunni and Shia bombing each other in Iraq. I know that it is a small minority of Muslims that control and direct the demonstrations, but it is still frustrating to see the disconnect.

[martymar64]

105. Mao was right . . . religion is poison

Kill your God and do it today!