Riots rock Budapest after PM's taped admission

[Charlie Brown]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/18/hungary.riots.reut/index.html

BUDAPEST, Hungary (Reuters) -- Hungarian protesters clashed with police and attacked the state television building to demand the resignation of Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany in the first such violence since the fall of communism in the late 1980s.

The protests on Monday night were sparked by the leak of a tape in which Gyurcsany admits he had "lied in the morning and lied in the evening" about the government's record to secure re-election in April.

Scores of protesters hurled bottles and cobblestones at riot police, who fired teargas to try to stop them forcing their way into the offices of state television to publicize their protest.

Protestors shouted "56" in memory of Hungary's failed uprising against Soviet rule in October 1956. Some used flagstones to attack the television building.

Some 10,000 people had earlier gathered at parliament to demand the Socialist premier's resignation.

While the Socialist Party rallied behind its prime minister, who faces his biggest challenge since taking office in 2004, Hungary's president said Gyurcsany had created a "moral crisis" and opposition parties said he should go.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. shit. they have a PM who admits the truth AND a citizenry that cares.

America used to be like that, long before the christo-fascists ruined this place.

[Adelante]

2. Not publicly

As I understand it, he admitted the truth on a private phone call and got caught.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. Hell, bush doesn't admit anything privately.

He does let us know that his voices in his head are telling him that he is in charge of teh 3d wave of religious insanity.

[Connie_Corleone]

3. Why can't Bush admit his lies on tape...

and then have it leaked to the public??

[rodeodance]

5. now wouldn't that be real sweet!!

[gorbal]

26. He has

In a round about way, and we have been protesting his lies forever, screaming at deaf ears. Unfortunately, american protests do not get a third as much coverage as do protest on the other side of the planet, so people just give up.

I was on google today and yesterday, and I am disgusted with how this is covered in comparison with American and Mexican protests. In the media's simplistic mind protesting socialist=good whereas protesting conservatives=silly and childish.

Are you hearing me?

[hobbit709]

6. The proper way to deal with government lies

to win re-election. Too bad we can't get the sheeple here that worked up. And I was in Vienna in 1956 and remember that-my mother was working for the Red Cross at the Austrian-Hungarian border then.

[IndianaGreen]

7. BBC is reporting protesters have stormed state run TV

Budapest hit by wave of violence

Thousands of demonstrators have gathered in the Hungarian capital, Budapest, demanding the resignation of Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany.

Police used tear gas and water cannon against a crowd who threw bottles and stones, and set cars alight.

After several hours the police withdrew, allowing the protestors to break into the state television HQ.

<snip>

The BBC's Nick Thorpe, in central Budapest, says the trouble at the state television station began when a small group of protestors who had spent the day outside parliament tried to hand in a petition.

A clash with riot police ensued and the square rapidly filled with mainly young people, some waving Hungarian flags.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5358546.stm

[Bucky]

8. Are they really mad about that Steve Colbert bridge?

They hate us for our internet dominance

[daleo]

9. Some doubt creeps into my cynical mind

He is a Socialist, so I wonder how much media manipulation is going on here by CNN and others. What government doesn't exaggerate about the economy? If they actually had the statistical agency lie about GDP, that would be one thing. But if all this amounts to is saying "prosperity is around the corner" or "we will keep taxes low", then that is just normal politics in any democracy. The article doesn't make clear which type of lie is being referenced.

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. From the BBC:

"There is not much choice. There is not, because we screwed up. Not a little, a lot. No European country has done something as boneheaded as we have.

"Evidently, we lied throughout the last year-and-a-half, two years. It was totally clear that what we are saying is not true.

"You cannot quote any significant government measure we can be proud of, other than at the end we managed to bring the government back from the brink. Nothing. If we have to give account to the country about what we did for four years, then what do we say?"

Mr Gyurcsany thanks "divine providence, the abundance of cash in the world economy and hundreds of tricks" for keeping the economy above board.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5354972.stm

The theory that he leaked this on purpose, to prepare the country for tough reforms, is interesting. If so, the reaction is far worse than he could have thought it could have been.

[daleo]

25. Yes, it is a strange sounding story

Although it seems like his use of the term "lie", is pretty much within the normal spectrum of western politics i.e. nothing so devastating as lying about oral sex (Clinton), just standard falsehoods about a rosy economy (any western politician's name of the last 100 years could do here).

[TheLastMohican]

11. Why did they vandalize the monument

to fallen Soviet soldiers who died clearing Budapest from Nazis in 1945? By the way, the thugs are young, what do they know about 1956? They weren't even born back then.

This smells of a staged CIA-type revolt, aka "Orange Revolution" in Ukraine. Same young stupid focus-groups with ready mottos and slogans and a desire to crash a few things.

Putin struck a good deal with Hungary PM on gaz and oil transportation and storage for European markets and for Hungarian economy. Looks like this development is not appreciated in the White House.

Maybe CIA prisons were in Hungary and this is just a smoke screen to cover the withdrawal?

[Mudoria]

12. Why would they care about

a monument to dead Soviets? Just replacing one set of thugs for another. As for a CIA job, believe it or not things actually happen in the real world without interference or instigation from outside parties. It's a novel concept I know but true nonetheless...

[TheLastMohican]

16. yeah, right

60 mln dollars for ukrainian coup.
We will soon find out how many taxpayers' dollars went down the drain in Hungary because US doesn't want to see a rising competitor like United Europe. Empire building is a tough thing, maintaining it is even tougher.

[ButterflyBlood]

18. Ukrainian "coup"?

Right, nullifying fraudulent election results and getting a free and fair vote was such a blatant and undemocractic seizure of power...

[It was not a pretzel]

17. Hungary was an ally of Germany

n/t

[me b zola]

19. Yes, one of the prisons was in Hungary

...So with negotiations over the prison continuing, the Hungarian prime minister, Ferenc Gyurcsany, used all his diplomatic skills to corner Mr. Bush during their brief appearance before the Hungarian and American news media.

"Within a couple of months," the prime minister announced, the Tancsics prison will finally return to Hungarian ownership. "Let me tell you quite frankly," he added, "that the president showed much more understanding for the importance and the meaning of this issue. And just within this circle I can say that he promised, and if he did that, it will happen."

Mr. Bush's face reddened, and he shook his head, looked down and laughed, a laugh that made some wonder just what promise had been made.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/25/world/europe/25notebook.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1501123

[nolabels]

13. Hungarians Riot Over Leaked Tape (about fraud before elections)

Hungarians Riot Over Leaked Tape
From the Associated Press
September 19, 2006

BUDAPEST, Hungary — Protesters clashed with police and stormed state television headquarters early today, responding with violence to a leaked recording that caught Hungary's prime minister admitting that the government "lied morning, evening and night" to win April elections.
(snip)
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-hungary19sep19,1,441882.story?coll=la-news-a_section

[Peace Patriot]

14. Ye gads, they stormed the TV stations because of government lying!!??

What will these people who believe in democracy think of next?

[havocmom]

15. I weep for the lost American spirit

We used to stand for democracy. Now, vigilance is left to the 'somebody ought to do something...' who ever that somebody guy is.

[SoCalDem]

20. I'm surprised that THEY were surprised...

People "tolerate" big whoppers from politicians all the time...some even expect it.

Perhaps they have woken up there, and will start demanding a "bottom line" approach to their politics..

I have started to think that governments should not be "led" by any one person. Perhaps a committee approach might be best in the long run.

People who are experts in various capacities would be in charge of those issues..

Perhaps stodgy ole England has the right idea.. a queen figurehead with no power, and a rambunctious parliament..I knwo they did nto throw Tony out, but at least a parliamentary syatem has the capability to "throw the bums out" at any given moment..

and their parliament is quite large for such a small country. Our congress is too small really, for a country with as many people as we have now. It puts too few people in charge of too many important issues for too many people.

There's no reason why we could not re-district the entire country and make districts purely geographical, based on population..each district of say 50K would have a representative..and each state would have 3 senators... (top 3 vote getters from an at-large style election)

[iamjoy]

21. Perhaps Gyurcsany Should Have Started A War

apparently, lies about that are acceptable in Democracies.

In any case, if Hungary had been at war, they could have classified the rioters as enemy combatants, anyone who supported them as "helping the terrorists" and so forth.

[NYC]

22. From The Budapest Sun:

http://www.budapestsun.com/full_story.asp?ArticleId={B2BD37BF410647B6A3C3295F7C1773C4}&From=News




(Photo: Gergely Rónai)

Around 125 people, 113 of them policemen, were injured when thousands of people demonstrated on Szabadság tér and in front of Parliament on Monday evening (Sep 18) demanding the resignation of Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsány after he admitted lying “morning, evening and night” about the state of the economy in order to win the general election.

The protests turned violent when a group broke away from the 2,000 - 3,000 crowd on Szabadság tér and launched an assault on the headquarters of Hungary’s national television MTV, setting a part of the building and several cars on fire and engaging in fighting with riot police.

For the full story see The Budapest Sun this Thursday (Sept 21)

Edit: Re 1956 anniversary:
http://www.budapestsun.com/full_story.asp?ArticleId={77A7720B807047B9B628175362DEA073}&From=

[NYC]

23. About the lies:

http://www.budapestsun.com/full_story.asp?ArticleId={88BCE39AE2F6447B8708C2784DA09E9D}&From=News

Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsány:

"We have not much choice. Because we have screwed it up. Not just a bit, big time. No country in Europe has ever done anything so impudent as we have done.We have obviously lied over the past one and a half to two years. It was absolutely clear that what we were saying was not true... I almost died when I had to pretend for one and a half years as if we were governing. Instead we lied in the morning, we lied in the evening and at night."

[Odin2005]

24. The Neo-Liberal Corporatist fuckers will be on this like flies on shit.

Europe is going to be inundated with corporate-backed pundits using this to trash all European welfare states, bet on it.