Gas at $1.15 a gallon? Some experts say maybe

[Ignacio Upton]

Gas at $1.15 a gallon? Some experts say maybe
By Kevin G. Hall - McClatchy Washington Bureau
Published 12:00 am PDT Thursday, September 14, 2006

WASHINGTON -- The recent sharp drop in the price of crude oil could mark the start of a sell-off that returns gasoline prices to lows not seen since the late 1990s -- perhaps as low as $1.15 a gallon, some analysts say.

"All the hurricane flags are flying" in oil markets, said Philip Verleger, a noted energy consultant who was a lone voice several years ago in warning that oil prices would soar. Now, he tells McClatchy Newspapers, they appear to be poised for a dramatic plunge.

Crude oil prices have fallen about $14, or roughly 17 percent, from their July 14 peak of $78.40. After falling seven straight days, they rose slightly Wednesday in trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange, to $63.97, partly in reaction to a government report showing fuel inventories a bit lower than expected. But the overall price drop is expected to continue, and prices could fall much more in the weeks and months ahead.

http://www.sacbee.com/103/story/23013.html#comments_here

[Redstone]

1. Christ, I hope not. Then there would be EVEN MORE fucking giant

SUVs clogging the roads.

Redstone

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. The only good thing about high gasoline prices, is that you could

see the demise of the Hummer.

[Redstone]

5. Way, WAY too many Americans think we have a RIGHT to cheap

gasoline.

Just buy a fucking CAR, would you people?

I got Mrs R to see the light on that and ditch the goddamn Jeep Grand Cherokee in 2001. She's glad I did. And I am too; I hated that big clumsy thing.

Redstone

[Cozumel]

63. I see this alot here...

blame the SUV's. I own an '89 Firebird Formula. I get between 18-22mpg, depending on the day (temp, humidity, driving style). I'm more of a lurker than a poster, but now I have to speak up. I have to use premium in my car, or it doesn't run worth a flip. I've never owned a new car, and I can guarantee (almost) i never will. Also keep in mind that a LOT of people cannot afford a new vehicle. Don't get me wrong. SUVs have horrid gas mileage, are prone to roll, and not to mention most people drive them like they're a freakin' car. I am as liberal as they come, but I come from a different mindset when it comes to vehicles. I drive my gas guzzling SMALL CAR every day, and I pay way too much for gas way too often. So don't forget to blame the muscle/performance CAR people as well. We do exhist. Just trying to even the playing field here. And anyone who wants to toot their hybrid horn: I am not smug enough to EVER drive (hell, even own) a hybrid. Hybrid is NOT the answer. Bio-diesel and E-85 are much closer the the answer, but still no cigar (on a side note: believe me, I'll be the first person to modify my bird for E-85 if it's ever available in mass-production like gasoline is). Also, another place to blame is stock car racing. They run 110 octane+ gasoline, and quite a bit of it in a 500mile race. I dunno if my rant even made sense now, but hey, let's place blame where it needs to be placed.

[Wells]

69. Driving in the dark...

Cozumel, et al. Biodiesel and other bio-fuels like E-85 perfect their combustion 'only' in a hybrid drivetrain; improved mileage 25%, reduced emissions even better. Hybrid engine speed & load are more strictly regulated than any standard drivetrain. When a hybrid adds a larger backup battery, ie the "Plug-in Hybrid", zero emission is achieved for many miles and their mileage, depending upon how many miles it is driven daily, is increased indefinitely. An LA Times article dubbed the Plug-in Hybrid, "The 500 MPG Solution". That's not even the half of their benefits and advantages over simple bio-fuel and preposterously impractical hydrogen. The Plug-in Hybrid battery pack is a perfect match with rooftop photovoltiac solar panels; one-step away from Public Power, and will prove INVALUABLE in an emergency loss of grid power.

Criticizm of Hybrids is propaganda that energy and oil company directors originate. Chevron Corp now owns the patent rights to the advanced automotive NiMh batteries used in GM EV-1. These batteries were lasting up to 125,000 miles.

Even the Plug-in Hybrid however, is a non-solution, if we expect them to replace not just today's vehicles, but todays intractable levels of transport and travel. We drive too much, too far, for too many purposes, at too high cost and impact.

In this regard, too, the Plug-in Hybrid excels. Since they offer zero-emission operation (via battery) only a limited number (10-20) of miles, this encourages their use for short drives to patronize local economies. This, in turn influences development patterns that build more destinations accessable without having to drive. Walking and bicycling become options, and mass transit systems can be more practically arranged.

Class dismissed. You will be tested on this information.

[TheFarseer]

80. interesting observation

"this encourages their use for short drives to patronize local economies." I am a big believer in plug-in hybrids, but I had never considered that benefit. maybe a small answer to run away globalization? Some people say we will still run out of oil someday even with hybrids, but if we ever get ethanol researched up to the point that it is much more economical that it is today (I believe that is possible) or research in TDP to make our own oil from bio-waste, we might be able to make our car-dependent lifestyle work indefinitely.

[LeftyMom]

78. You're right that the problem is inefficient cars, not big ones.

My baby sister drives a 2 seater mercedes. It's small, but it takes premium and a whole lot of it. My car's a heck of a lot bigger than hers, since I drive a wagon, but it's more versatile, more reliable, and goes nearly forever on a gallon of 87 octane.

Is her car more virtuous merely for being smaller when it sucks down as much gas as a typical SUV and moves fewer people and almost no cargo?

[PhilYerHead]

70. I'd like to see $5.00 gas for that reason

If we acted like it hurt a bit to drive, we may start to take measures to secure a reliable alternative lifestyle that would aleviate the strain we put on the situation. I don't mean ethanol.

Last week, at the stoplight, I counted the cars that had more than one person. It was eight. There were 100 cars that streamed by. Explode that to 50 major cities and I know who are the bad guys. All of us. You DUers on bikes and in carpools, you are excused.

If we don't all move faster than this curve, it will be LIGHTS OUT way sooner than we thought. Gone are the days of sunday drives, 2000-mile Caesar salads, and a steady supply of Baby Wipes. Postage will shoot up; forget about FedEx. Traveling by plane or car to see the kin at Grandma Tilly's family reunion is a non-realistic fantasy.

What this system needs is an enema.

Bring on the pain. Bring the revolution.

Phil

[Generic Brad]

79. I walk to work

May I be excused too?

[politicat]

94. Motorcycles, too...

DH has one, and I'll have my license in November. Yeah, it's a two seater (at best), but in per-occupant miles, it really outshines even our super-efficient Hyundai Accent.

The only worry I have anymore about the bike is the other idiots in other steel cages who have to discipline the kids, watch a DVD, have a cell phone conversation, drink a triple skinny double caff half sugar mochalatachino frappe while trying to drive. And those come in all cars, not just SUVs.

[Sapere aude]

33. As apposed to more little cars clogging the roads?

[Mr Rabble]

39. Good thinking! SUV's split into multiple little cars. Wow.

What the hell are you talking about?

[JDPriestly]

51. In LA, most of the SUVs have one, at most two passengers.

[krispos42]

65. Correction: Across USA, most vehicles have 1, at most 2, passengers

We don't carpool. Oh, well.

[krispos42]

66. Size is not really an issue for clogging.

Most SUVs are less than a foot longer than a car. A Dodge Durango is 16'8", a Dodge Status is 15'11" long.

They seem bigger because they are a fair bit taller. A Durago is about 16 inches higher than a Stratus, not counting the roof rack on the Durango. A Durago is about 6 inches wider than a Stratus.

The basic fact is that if it was not for the reduced fuel economy of an SUV, almost everybody would have them because except for slaloms, an SUV can generally do everything a car can, only better.

Fortunately, we are now in such a market where many small-to-midsize SUVs are available. They are built on unibody car frames, not body-on-frame truck bodies like early models, so they are stiffer, lighter, and more car-like (okay, you can't pull stumps with a RAV4. Deal with it). The engines on many are from the car division of the automaker, not the truck, so they are cleaner and more efficient. This is seriously closing the gap between cars and SUVs.

For example, look at the Dodge Stratus vs. Suburu Forester

Base engine horsepower: Dodge 150, Suburu 173
Base engine milage: Dodge 22/30 (w/auto), Suburu 23/28(auto), 22/29 (stick)

Upgraded engine horsepower: Dodge 200, Suburu 224
Upgraded engine milage: Dodge 21/28 (w/auto), Suburu 21/26 (auto), 20/27 (stick)

The Subie is actually 15 inches shorter and a touch narrow than the Dodge. They have very similar passenger volumes, and both seat five. The Subie's hatchback design gives it more cargo room, of course. The Subie weights in about 400 pounds more, but that includes 4-wheel drive. And you can knock off nearly all of that if you row your own gears.

You basically get a lot more versitility at the cost of a single mile per gallon.

Once we finally move over to hydrogen-powered fuel-cell cars, the SUV-versus-car debate will be virtually irrelevent, because fuel cells only emit water vapor as a waste product, so "burning" more hydrogen will not impact the environment any.

[Wells]

71. Hydrogen fuel cell is a fraud...

Krispos is correct that the environmental impact of medium-size SUVs is comparable to any small car on the road. For example a riddle: Which vehicle gets better mileage, the Honda Insight or the Chevrolet Suburban? Answer: the Suburban, when seating 9 passengers. It takes 5 Insights to carry 9 passengers.

However, Krispos is wrong about hydrogen fuel cell as a workable solution. Hydrogen has insurmountable impracticalities, is inapplicable to many vehicle models, and has fewer benefits than Plug-in Hybrid, especially for the SUV. A carefully placed Plug-in Hybrid battery pack, lowers vehicle center-of-gravity, improving handling and making SUVs less prone to rollover.

[MGD]

73. Multi-mega-watt hydrogen generators powering plug in electrics

would be ideal. The problem is, as always, cleaving the H2 from the O with a net gain in energy. I personally like solar energy and believe it is greatly overlooked. A solar array in the Mojave desert could be built large enough to power the entire country. Geothermal, wind, and hydroelectric sources could also be used to painlessly convert H2O into its constituent componants. The Holy Grail, In my opinion, will be a catalyst that reduces the energy needed to cleave the molecule. I think lightning is also an overlooked energy source. The kinetic energy of a lightning bolt could relatively easily be converted into potential energy in the form of H2 and O2 thereby harnessing the power of the lightning bolt. The value of the Wankel rotary engine is also all too frequently overlooked. It's ability to combust just about anyhing makes it far better suited to the future energy market than the current V-type and inline engines so popular in America. Flexibility will undoubtedly be criticaly important and a V-8 is no kind of flexible.

[Jersey Ginny]

86. Impractical logic

How many people actually drive their vehicles with more than one person in them? I bet 80% of the driving is done with one person in the car. 15% with family/kids, and the rest in a carpool and that is likely very generous. If you had actual data suggesting that people actually use all of their seats most of the time I'd like to see that. So your argument would only make sense about gas mileage (you are not mentioning CO2 production) if people used their cars the way you suggest.
Regarding Hydrogen, there are buses running in Iceland RIGHT NOW that run on hydrogen. They work. They are build in the USA, interestingly enough as I recall. The problems with Hydrogen will be surmounted. One day houses will have hydrogen systems for storing solar/wind power generated during the day, in order to become independant of the grid. Micro power plants where a bunch of houses are set up this way are a future reality. Info from "Then End of Oil" by Paul Roberts. Good book.

[krispos42]

88. My comment was about large vehicles replacing small vehicles

You are absolutely right, though. Most people drive alone. In the idea universe, we would have a variety of cars available to use, from 2-seat commuter cars (or perhaps a high-powered scooter?) to a honkin' 1-ton pickup with a quad cab and stump-pulling V-10. But that is impractical, so we get as big a car as we are likely to need, or we get a car we get a good price on. I personally have a 17-year-old car that is a hand-me-down. It seats six if they're friendly, but I could easily get by with a Ford Focus or Escape. But the car was free, it's mechanically sound, and gets about 22 mpg, and that's where I'm staying.

CO2 production is directly related to fuel milage. The chemical reaction of gasoline and air yields the same products regardless, given a modern fuel-injection and emissions-control system. If both the Stratus and Forester burns 2.7 gallons of gasoline an hour while highway cruising, then they both put the same amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. But a Forester vs. a Suburban is pitting about 26 mpg versus 20 mpg, so the Forester burns 2.7 gallons while the Suburban burns 3.5. Of course, those are EPA numbers, so take them with a grain of salt.

In fact, sometime in the past year California was dragged into court by the automakers because they tried to mandate CO2 emissions. The automakers argued that mandating CO2 emissions was de facto mandating fuel milage because of the chemistry involved, and fuel economy regulations is federal, not state, legal territory.

[krispos42]

89. Hydrogen is coming! Hydrogen is coming!

I personally have been advocating the plug-in all-electric car with lithium-ion batteries that can charge off of 115-volt or 230-volt household service AND which has a fuel-burning 230-volt auxillary generator of about 12 horsepower which would take the place of the household service as needed. The auxillary, designed to have the same voltage and current capabilities of common 230-volt 30-amp household service (like what powers your electric clothes dryer) would only kick in when the battery was running low, like, say on long trips. Otherwise, the car would run by day on batteries and charge during off-peak times at home. I figure if the electric car has a 150-mile range on batteries alone, I would not have had to use the auxillary once in the past 12 months.

Anyway, the ultimate problem with a battery it that is takes many hours to charge. You just can't stick a hose in it and fill it up in a couple of minutes like you can a fuel-burning car, which definately reduces the usability factor.

Hydrogen fuel cells convert bottled hydrogen and atmospheric oxygen into water vapor and electricity. it is established technology that NASA has used for years. I personally have seen a university engineering project where a team of seniors ran an eletric trolling motor for 24 hours or so at full throttle on a single pound of hygrogen.

There are issues that need to be overcome with hygrogen, there is no doubt. Generating the hydrogen can be done a couple of different ways. Baking coal in an oxygen-free atmosphere is one way but it also creates others gases as well. Zapping water with DC current is another, but the question is energy losses from converting coal or natural gas energy to electricity, then to hydrogen, then again to electricity?

My opinion is that hydrogen as a CO2 emissions-reducer is many years away, simply because in order to reduce the CO2 emisisons, the elecrical power source must be non-pollutiong. Nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, tidal, wave, etc.

Now, the Midwest is full of untapped wind energy, energy that cannot be readily shipped to the populated states because the electrical grid is insufficient. In lieu of exporting the wind energy of the Midwest through copper wires, it can be exported through ethanol plants that use wind turbine power flowing through heating elements instead of burning natural gas. It can also be exported in hydrogen, where windmills shock water all day and collect the hydrogen in tanks.

The most recent issue of Popular Mechanics also ran an article about the future of nuclear power, and they noted that when water is heated up to about 1850 degrees or so, the electricity required to seperate water into hydrogen and oxygen drops drastically. This lends to the idea of a nuclear power plant that uses its electrical power output to zap its own cooling water into hydrogen at very high efficiencies.

Storage is also an issue, because the hydrogen molecules are so small they pass through steel, making long-term storage problematic. I noted earlier that a trolling motor was run for a day on a pound of hydrogen, but I must also mention that it took a 55-pound tank to hold that pound of hydrogen. How this can be overcome remains to be seen, but a 16-gallon car tank holds 96 pounds of fuel, plus the tank itself. It could be, for example, that every house in the future has solar cells on the roof that use sunlight to turn water into hydrogen and store it in your garage, so you can top off a small tank every night before leaving.

[politicat]

95. I'm not sure I'd call a subaru an SUV...

Now, I live in Subaru Valley -- everyone has one here, except me and the other Hyundai people who think the mountains are the place you flee to in times of civil war, zombie invasions and international sporting events. They're pretty to look at ... from here. But everyone else in town goes to the mountains on a regular basis, so they have Subarus.

They're a useful car, but they're not an SUV. The SUVs that most people complain about are built on truck frames, are wider than the standard car, and significantly taller (think the difference between an Elantra and a Santa Fe, to stay in the Hyundai category. Santa Fe's may be unibody by now, but they're still built to compete on the same market as the truck framed SUVs.) I won't buy one because the few that I've test driven have had driver's compartments that made my old Fiat look roomy (and that was a car that was built for tiny little Parisian women...) and I have a 6'4" husband who occasionally likes to get behind the wheel rather than behind his handlebars.

Also, I think Subies are classed with cars, rather than trucks, as most SUVs are.

I still think that a city where single driver commuters raced each other to their desk jobs in smart cars and minis would be preferable in terms of traffic management than the world we have. Smaller cars allows for narrower lanes, and thus more traffic can pass through a corridor, and designating lanes for wider vehicles only wouldn't hurt, either. Right now, lanes have to be 15 feet wide to accommodate the largest of vehicles, but if a city were to create special narrow lanes for smaller cars, I think it would help. (I'm all for using the ATM methodology on traffic.) As for fuel efficiency... until we learn to place our jobs, stores and homes in the same general area, and de-suburbify the US, we're going to be dealing with commuting and single occupant driving.

I'd also really like a flex car, which can attach several small pods together to flex into larger ones, rather a lego vision of automation. But that's going to take engineering I don't have at present.

[Richard D]

3. I'm sure that they will start to move up again . . .

. . . on or about November 8.

[Blue_Tires]

21. you've nailed it.....

[VolcanoJen]

22. Absolutely. But they'll rise higher if Dems win Congress back

Convenient blame to set them up in '08.

So, I guess someone decided to lower their profit margins smack in the middle of election season. Why isn't the media talking about this? Everybody else is...

I heard on the radio this evening that Ohio (my state) has the lowest gasoline prices in the nation right now. Hmmmm. How convenient.

[Richard D]

27. My slightly paranoid prediction . . .

. . . if the dems win congress, we'll also see a sizable attack in number and scope of "terrorist" attacks. Some will be on US soil. :tinfoilhat:

[krispos42]

67. The gas-price drop is obvious manipulation

I wrote the proof in another thread. Here's the link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2527682

I even included a fancy gov't graph! :-)

[MGD]

74. $2.10 /gallon here in northwest Ohio.nt

[krispos42]

92. self delete

[lumberjack_jeff]

23. you bet

Just a big campaign donation.

[ShortnFiery]

37. LOL that's exactly my thought!

What? Stop reading my mind, will ya? <tease> :P :hi:

[Robbien]

4. Whatever it takes to get a GOP win

The BigOil has billons in surpluses over the last several years to be able to allow the price to float for a couple of months.

[Born Free]

16. Yes and they have plenty of excuses to raise prices after the election

If the GOP retains control and the oil companies have nothing to fear look for sharp rises in oil prices due to ( insert any excuse you want here ) Heck the great Iran invasion is just around the corner, that is surely going to cause an oil shortage.....and rise in prices and profits again

[lgn19087]

61. BigOil has little control over it nm

nm

[tabasco]

62. Riiiiiight. The poor oil companies are simply doing their darndest to get

that oil to us at the cheapest price, with just a slight profit margin.

Is that what Lush told you?

[lgn19087]

72. No

the oil companies are trying to sell us gasoline at the highest possible margins. However, the price of crude oil has tanked lately, and the price of the refined product has followed. Trust me. There is no conspiracy. Everytime someone says it, we look like whiny kooks. If Rove can control the world oil economy, there is no hope for us.

[MGD]

75. I still think it's the rumors of the huge oil field found in the Gulf

of Mexico that has investors selling instead of buying which, in turn, translates into lower pump prices.

[lgn19087]

83. Indeed

that likely has much to do with it. What I'm hearing is this:

Crude generally goes somewhat lower after labor day to begin with. The Lebanon thing cooled without too much of an escalation, the Alaska interruption seemes to have gone away quietly, plus the Gulf discovery...these things combined to send prices lower.

Mind you, much of the runup is due not to the oil companies but to the hedge funds and investment banks, looking to use oil not as a natural resource but an investment. When the above factors brought prices down, it freaked a lot of the fund managers and they jumped ship.

Hence, we have much lower prices.

[MGD]

85. Precisely, it's simple supply and demand playing out.

For once, it works to the advantage of the consumer. We'll se ehow long it lasts. The winter chill is right around the corner after all.

[lgn19087]

87. Its awfully refreshing

to meet someone on here who DOESN'T think that its a global Rovain conspiracy.

[MGD]

91. shhhh, don't say it so loudly lest they hear you.

I will say that Rove will surely exploit this bit of good fortune and that may cause some confusion among the ranks regarding of who/what caused what.

[sendero]

6. come on..

.... the oil producers have had a taste of good prices. They are not going to keep selling their precious commodity for $30 a barrel for any length of time.

There will be another war, rumor of war, hurricane, pipeline failure or SOMETHING to drive prices back up. If not, OPEC will reduce output.

Also, India and China need more and more oil every month. The long term trend for oil is up up up, regardless of what piddly little detours that might arise here and there.

[Ignacio Upton]

8. This article shows that the figure would be based on speculation

"Should oil traders fear that this downward price spiral will get worse and run for the exits by selling off their futures contracts, said Verleger, it's not unthinkable that oil prices could return to $15 or less a barrel, at least temporarily. That could mean gasoline prices as low as $1.15 per gallon."

I don't believe it will go that low either, especially because the factors that he listed could easily become more dangerous and are already volatile. I think that dropping to about $2.00 is not out of the question, though, even without oil companies manipulating the market. I want to see lower oil prices, but I also don't want people returning to their driving patterns of 5-10 years ago when SUV's were rolling out of the dealer-ships. And don't get me started on how easily people change their opinions of Bush based on gas prices.

[sendero]

9. I agree..

... that prices of $2 at the pump are not impossible, for some period of time. Not more than a year or two though :)

I'm just speculating but I really think that the oil producers are in the drivers seat here, not the consumers.

[Ignacio Upton]

13. An external factors are volatile

I seriously don't believe that, considering market forces alone, the prices of gas will drop into the LOW $1.00 range. Honestly (and to Freepers and conservatives reading this sentence, I don't give a fuck what you think!) I'd rather see gas prices stay in the $2.40's range in terms of the nation-wide average. That's about where it was on Election Day 2005 (per Gasbuddy.com) and it balances out the need for gas price relief while preventing people from getting so complacent that Bush's job approval will cross back to 2004 levels.

[ckramer]

7. How can we not be grateful to these republicans who save our arse?

Wow! 1.15 dollars per gallon!

What else can we do besides re-electing them back to Congress?

[Az_lefty]

10. Gov. subsidized bicycles and bike paths EVERYWHERE !!!!

that's what we need.
:hi:

[muntrv]

11. Until the elections. Then the prices will shoot back up.

[billbuckhead]

12. What's a few billions if it keeps big oil out of jail and set to make tril

What's a few billions if it keeps big oil out of jail and set to make trilllions?

[Vinnie From Indy]

14. LOL! Some of you crack me up!

Do the gargantuan oil companies only have to lower prices for a few weeks for you people to forget all of the horrendous things they have done. I hope all of you realize that these same oil companies had a MAJOR role in installing our current boy king. Look for energy to shoot back up within weeks if not days of the November election.

[Bjorn Against]

40. I don't think anyone here disagrees with you

No one is forgetting what they have done, and we all know that politics does play a role in gas prices.

[SammyWinstonJack]

58. Duh!

:eyes:

[bullimiami]

15. let them fall. noone is going to forget we were raped with 3$/gal and bush

told us to piss off.

[XemaSab]

17. 3 bucks a gallon? where?

It's still 3.50 here. :eyes:

[bullimiami]

18. eek. we never got quite that high here in so florida. ~3.25 at the peak.

its all over the place now from as low as 2.65 still to over 3.00 in some locations.

[razors edge]

19. whatever it takes to keep the dems

from holding investigations with subpoena power.

[mwooldri]

20. Oh, returning to Clinton-level gas prices eh?

Something that the vast majority of Americans can blame Clinton for. Low gas prices.

Don't you just hate Clinton for that? :sarcasm:

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

30. I find it slightly hypocritical

that when Clinton was in office and gas was as cheap as 97 cents (in Dallas, where I lived), no one did much complaining about the effects of SUVs.
I see plenty of 1993-2000 monster trucks and SUVs still on the road. Maybe I just never noticed the criticism.

It also pisses me off that people actually believe the supply/demand storybehind today's gas prices. Give me a break.

[devilgrrl]

24. Gee, just in time for election season!!!!!

I hope some of you see the connection.

[bhikkhu]

25. As wild as speculation that oil will hit $200 a barrel,

and gas correspondingly high. Perhaps we have predictions like this as reactions to pessimistic predictions. In either case, markets decide and consumers fall in line. Where the market knows it can get $70 a barrel, why would producers (who have quite a bit of control over the supply side) cooperate? I would guess that "unknowables" might give us $40 or $50 a barrel again, but would be very skeptical that anything less will again be seen.

[maseman]

26. One little breeze

in the Gulf of Mexico and it will be back at $75/barrel. Who the hell are they kidding?

[IggleDoer]

28. Are you kidding

One little election and the prices will go back up to $75 a barrell.

[Javaman]

29. Tin foil hat time!!!!

:tinfoilhat:

Okay, so as soon as we enter the 60 day window till the elections, the prices suddenly drop. funny how that works.

But that's a side note. Up until this point the high prices have been raping the big auto makers. They have miles of SUV's unsold and are dying because of their stupidity. Now in walks big oil, chaney and the transportation secretary.

They all made a deal. big oil was getting the PR kidded out of them, because of their outrageous profits and the auto makers were getting their asses kicked because all they had to offer was gas guzzling SUVs. So in steps transportation head along with chaney. The deal goes like this, they had to bail out the auto makers because if they didn't, the economy would take a giant hit. So the tell the oil giants, cut us some slack, otherwise the Japanese auto makers and several other who are making hybrids and electric cars are going to be making out like bandits. Oil agrees.

The prices start to drop. The auto giants can now unload their acres of SUV's to the gullible public. Japan gets slapped down because who wants a hybrid when gas is cheap? (stupid american mentality) you will see more cash incentives etc on SUV's on the run up to the elections. (good for the repukes for the midterms) Election day sales, etc. They unload them all by early next year. Gas goes back up. People get fucked again, but wait there's more. once the people are screwed blued and tattooed, out will come the new hybrid and high mileage models from the U.S. auto makers.

so now the gullible public in their insanity to save themselves, will be trading in their new SUV beasts at less then cost values. thus increasing their debt, thus increasing the interest being paid on that debt, thus helping out the fat cats in the credit industry. It's a win win win for everyone.

Oil will jack the prices up again and make more huge win falls, U.S. auto makers will have unloaded their millstone SUV's once and for all and the credit companies will be sitting pretty with more dough rolling in from increased need for credit.

Oh just one last point. Why do the credit companies benefit from this? (besides the obvious?) Because recent studies have shown that the American public is actually starting to save again, even though the average amount of savings for Americans is at a historical low, people are realizing that the economy is tanking. Can't have people saving now, can we? Nope. Have to have them spend spend spend. It's your way of helping the war on Terror!!! Fear and spend, fear and spend.

But all of the above is taking place because morons* message of fear fear fear isn't working any longer so that's why chaney has to get the price of oil to come down prior to the elections. It's all about not losing seats. (funny how no reports talk about the repukes winning seats, they are trying like hell to stop the bleeding) And so the cycle continues.

I figure about this time next year, between the housing industry tanking, the new SUV's that were bought via increased high rate credit and the no doubt once again high gas/oil prices, this is a recipe for one hell of a recession if not, shall I say it, depression. All brought to you by george w., I'll* bomb who ever I* damn well please, moron*
bush.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[dbt]

35. Ding! Ding! Ding!

No more calls, please. We HAVE a winner! Javaman nails it SHUT!

:bounce:
dbt
Remember New Orleans

[Ishoutandscream2]

42. Doesn't sound "tin-foilish" at all

I think that is the most rational, logical post I've seen about this. We all know that Cheney and his henchmen held secret energy meetings before. What you have just posted, I believe, is highly likely. Bringing the automakers into the discussion I thought was sheer genius.

Nice post.

[Tuttle]

77. But then there's the other shoe

their worst case scenerio: the public smells a rat and votes the pukes out of office. Dems take control of both houses... at that point, gas prices will skyrocket back up to increase the 'misery index' RIGHT AWAY!

The Dems can have their little impeachment party but the public will be so fed up with ultra high prices at the pump (REMEMBER KATRINA: the US public didn't really care about it until self-serve went over $3 per gallon) that the Dems will be in power for two years ONLY... and Allen/McCain or whomever will take the White House.

Scary, ain't it?

Tut-tut

[TheFarseer]

82. wow, dude, you thought the whole thing through

My only problem with your thought process is auto companies weren't smart enough to keep their stock/profits/company in general from tanking, so I'm not sure they are smart enough to pull that off, but otherwise, you've really got something there.

[sadiesworld]

31. Haven't futures remained largely unchanged?

How frigging transparent.

[MGD]

76. Sweet light crude is running about $15/barrel cheaper than it was

roughly 2 months ago. It has to be the newly found oil field in the Gulf of Mexico making speculators nervous.

[Sapere aude]

32. Great, we can dust off the SUV's and get rolling again!

OK, take those SUV's off the market, the price will go back up to Blue Book soon. All you folks that went out and got into debt to buy that fuel efficient car are going to look pretty foolish. You should have hung on to that paid off SUV! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh wait, you are doing the right thing by only burning 40 gallons a week on that 50 mile daily commute. While the 40 gallons a week I burn in my SUV will pollute a lot more than your car.

[leftyladyfrommo]

34. We are at 2.229 this morning. In KC

We still have a long way to go.

[radfringe]

52. $2.23 in Wilkes-Barre PA area Friday evening

told my partner we should get an order of heating oil before or right after the (s)election before the prices go back up

[ileus]

36. That would be nice then I could fill my honda and lawnmower...

for 20 bucks...

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

38. Are these the experts that yelled about $4 gas just weeks ago?

Seems to me they have NOT established much real world credibility... :shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. Sorry, but that is BAD news

For the survival of the planet, we need to transition away from the internal combustion engine as quickly as possible.

We need to encourage public transit, cycling, walking, more compact communities with stores and services in walking distance, non-automotive paths to different parts of town, and to get rid of all the current incentives that encourage driving.

We need a moratorium on highway projects and a diversion of those funds into transit and non-motorized transportation.

Yes, I know it's impossible to get along without a car in some communities, but that situation cannot be allowed to stand. We should make it possible, no, easy, to get around without a car in every metropolitan area in the country. Rural areas should encourage the re-introduction of horse-powered travel for short trips and revitalized bus service for trips between nearby towns (such as exists in England and Japan). Excuses that boil down to, "But I prefer to drive, even though there are alternatives" cannot remain socially acceptable.

Rejoicing about low gas prices is like rejoicing about free cigarettes, only it's not personal health that's at stake but the health of the entire planet.

[Taoschick]

90. Do you live in a city?

Rural areas should encourage the re-introduction of horse-powered travel for short trips and revitalized bus service for trips between nearby towns

So, I should saddle up the horse for a 2 hour ride to the grocery store?

[AX10]

43. Gas prices will fall until November 8th, 2006.

Then they rise again.

[Sherman A1]

46. Agreed

with of course the proper number of excuses and reasons given to the media for the "sudden" rise in prices.

[bamacrat]

44. Buying votes, the only way the pukes can win.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

45. I used to buy Chevron on my Chevron credit card...I know, I know,

but the station was a block away and I've been doing business with them for years and the people who run the station are nice. But the more I read about Chevron being one the biggest crooked oil companies going, the more I reconsidered buying from them. Then as the prices were climbing, I noticed that Chevron was always at least a dime more than any of the other stations. So I stopped buying at Chevron, and my charges dropped from over $100 a month to zero on my credit card. So suddenly, Chevron starts offering me, "As a long time valued customer," a small discount on the gas I charge on their card. But even with the discount, their prices are still higher than most of the other stations. So I ignore the discount and continue buy cheaper gas elsewhere with cash.

I don't think my story is that unusual. I think that major oil companies started losing good patrons because of their greed. Consumers who routinely filled up at a convenient station despite a higher price finally started becoming pickier about both price and company greed. Maybe that had a little to do with why they are now cutting back (although I do think that come the day after elections, the price will climb again).

[plasticsundance]

47. Back in the summer of 2004 I was watching CNBC

I can't remember exactly the price on a barrel, but I believe it was going to 50, if not higher. I might be wrong on the exact price, but when it began to drop to the mid 40's ... or there abouts ... this financial pundit on CNBC said gleefully that it would go back to 34. It never did. It resumed upwards again.

It's amazing over the years as I watched this all take place how people will fall for this crap over and over and over again.

The fundamentals that are lacking and the corruption in our economy will not resurrect the dollar, and if you think OPEC and the oil companies want to sell oil at such a low price of the dollar a barrel ... plu-eeze.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

48. I dare ANY repub to claim they brought down gas prices! n /t

MKJ

[GoddessOfGuinness]

49. Of course...

The outrageaous prices of the last few years will easily fund a temporary reduction in price, until they get their thug friends reinstalled.

[Telly Savalas]

50. "perhaps as low as $1.15 a gallon, some analysts say"???

Somebody needs to tell the author of this article that when analysts are semi-conscious with empty beer cans scattered around the floor around them, one shouldn't pay too much heed to their predictions.

[goodboy]

53. Not gonna happen...the prices will go down right before the election, but

not that far.

These bastards gouge the shit out of you all summer, then when they get into political trouble...WHAM! Low gas prices.

Or maybe they've started pumpin' out that sweet Iraqi crude.

Who knows.

[LiberalHeart]

54. I paid $2.12 a gallon tonight ... lowest I can remember it being in ages

[Eurobabe]

55. Not in Europe

But then again, there are no elections in November, IIRC.

[Demeter]

56. Official Notice That the Gas Prices Are Not Dropping Any Further

whenever "alarming" news like this comes out, we are in the "it's all over but the shouting" phase.

[DoYouEverWonder]

57. Shouldn't the Repugs have to consider this

to be a campaign contribution?

Nice to see the Saudis and OPEC trying to influence US elections.

[Wretched Refuse]

59. It this is why the bungling American Car Company known as

Chrysler has just NOW introduced the Aspen?
http://www.chrysler.com/en/aspen/index.html
Fucking morons. If I was a stock holder I would be screaming right now as to why they would introduce a friggin SUV in the midst of a Gas crisis.

Oh sorry, I forgot, the car companies are n cahoots with the gas companies. Otherswise we would have steered all of our post WWII production capabilities towards MASS TRANSIT. BUt, NOOOOO, The Rethugnikkkans who had to be DRAGGED into WWII kicking and screaming (The fucking pussy ass babies they are) were want of using their new found Superpower. Read: How best to make a ridiulously grotesque society from the massive profits they have accumulated in the war.
Hmmm now where have we heard this before????
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1330385

[dkofos]

60. Fear not sheeple

Gas will be back to $3.00 a gallon by Nov.10

[struggle4progress]

64. Considering that the price of oil has risen steadily since 2002 when

it was somewhat under $20/barrel, and considering that the price first hit $60/barrel earlier this year (thus effectively tripling in price in four years) and hasn't yet fallen below $60, it seems entirely premature to predict that marvelous low oil prices will grace our future ...

[krispos42]

68. Bull. Three steps forward, one step back.

We're in the "one step back" phase. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[w4rma]

81. They want fools to believe prices will keep dropping after election day.

They will skyrocket soon after the major elections have been decided.

[newblewtoo]

84. If you want ...

cheap gas keep feedin oats to the mule:)

n/t

[Sewsojm]

93. Doesn't make any sense,

I paid $1.90 in Greenville, NC today but yet where I live an hour away its $2.29, just doesn't make sense!!

[Writer]

96. First we're told that the higher prices are due to higher demand...

from China and India. Now suddenly the bottom drops out of the demand? Now they're saying the lower prices are due to increased demand and no hurricanes? Gas prices have been at $1.50 or more per gallon high since the 2001 Terror Attacks! This is complete BS.

Bush can't rig the prices, but his oil refinery buddies CAN. And yes, I do believe in collusion between oil companies.