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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:02 PM
Original message
Animal rights activists sentenced (under terrorism laws)
TRENTON, New Jersey - Three animal rights activists convicted under a U.S. anti-terrorism law were sentenced to between 48 and 72 months prison on Tuesday for a campaign to drive out of business Huntingdon Life Sciences, a company that tests pharmaceuticals and chemicals on animals.

A federal court judge in Trenton, New Jersey was due to sentence three more people convicted in the case in the coming days.
The members of Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty were also found guilty of conspiracy and interstate stalking in their campaign against employees of Huntingdon, a British company that tests pharmaceutical, chemicals and dyes on animals.

The company, which has operations in East Millstone, New Jersey, says on its Web site it uses mice, rabbits, cats, dogs, pigs, sheep, cows, fish, birds and monkeys.
In March a jury found the defendants and their organization guilty of violating the Animal Enterprise Protection Act, a federal law that was amended in 2002 to equate its offenses with terrorism. It marked the first trial and conviction under that law, federal officials said>>>>snip


http://news.monstersandcritics.com/northamerica/article_1200792.php/Animal_rights_activists_sentenced
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Holy shit! WTF?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. Just wait until the local Garden Clubs are designated Terrorists for
protecting "Classic Seeds" that haven't been bio-engineered by ADM.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. Terra, terra right here at home
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh Yeah... Real Scarey Animal Rights Activists
them dangerous... WTF!? Ya see... the GOP has waged war against it's own people.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 05:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
32. Glad the warrantless wiretaps caught these murderers
I mean, yeah, they had to spend 9 years at Gitmo being waterboarded and having a few thousand volts surge through their testicles, but hell, gotta keep Ah-murr-ka safe, right? Right?

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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
68. Animal "rights" activists are indeed scary, especially to us
veterinarians. They murdered one of us, the dean of one of the vet schools back east several years ago, IIRC.

Scary doesn't begin to describe them.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here is what you can go to jail for 4-5 years over:
"Defense attorneys argued that the defendants were exercising their constitutional rights of free speech and had not themselves committed the acts advocated by their Web site. SHAC said it was the victim of a government crackdown on dissent.

During the three-week trial before U.S. District Judge Anne Thompson, jurors heard that defendants urged sympathizers to harass Huntingdon employees, vandalize their cars and publish the names, addresses and phone numbers of their families on a Web site."

This is bullshit.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
36. publish the names, addresses and phone numbers of their families on a Web
Like Michelle Malkin et al?
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
37. Yet you can bomb an abortion clinic and not get charged with terrorism.
Utter bullshit.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
38. Vandalizing cars should get you a penalty
I don't consider it terrorism, but it deserves consequences, especially restitution and fines to be paid to the individual victims.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. They didn't vandalize anything.
Their website advocated such tactics.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Another Bushite corporate law has gone into effect.
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yeah, Bushite, but not this Bush.
It was passed in '92, so it looks like Poppy signed this one.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
56. Congress was controlled by Democrats in 1992
So Bush signed a bill sent to him by the Democratic-controlled Congress.
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Here's the Web site about the defendants
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Anyone know who the DA is who prosecuted them?
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NeoConsSuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
79. I'll go looking for it today
and report back.
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TheMightyFavog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Here's the law in question...
http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/legislat/pl102346.htm

Now I haven't seen the specifics of the case, butgoing by the article, I think the prosecution was stretching things a bit.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. They'd have to prove acts in furtherance of the conspiracy
that aren't simply 1st amended protected speech, I would think.

Do I know what that might be? No idea, from what I'm seeing on this thread. And let's say, even if the prosecution was correct under the law - which I cannot claim with any confidence - it is ridiculous not to apply such laws to attacks on abortion clinics that are the result of a conspiracy by a group. Strategic attacks on health care for political reasons is very much what this law should be aimed at. But that's a prosecutorial discretion thing so bleh.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. And yet . . .
Shooting doctors and blowing up health clinics with staff and patients inside isn't considered terrorism.
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NeoConsSuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
80. In western NY
they were making a hero out a man who threatened to 'spill pig blood'. A local diner created a burger in his name, t-shirts honoring this man were sold.

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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. paving the way to convict activism against big corps.
just beautiful.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
81. I think you have nailed it. . . n/t
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kermujin Donating Member (120 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. Animal rights activists sentenced (under terrorism laws)
...but the man who tried to set a women's clinic on fire wasn't?

huh.
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seriousstan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. I agree with the decision. You can protest but you cannot terrorize.
In July 2002, activists released smoke bombs in two Seattle high-rises that housed Marsh offices, forcing hundreds of office workers into the streets.

At the end of the year, Marsh announced that it would no longer insure HLS. A victory statement on the SHAC site credited "those who smashed windows" as well as "those who held vocal protests outside Marsh offices and homes of executives."

"No lawsuit, private investigator, or criminal prosecution prevented this victory," said an activist quoted in the release. "Until HLS is closed we will not apologize, we will not compromise, and we will not relent."

---cut---

SHAC's campaign against the biotechnology company Chiron demonstrates this heightened militancy. Activists began protesting at the homes of the company's employees in April 2003. On June 11, 2003, SHAC posted an anonymous message on its Web site containing information allegedly provided by a Chiron employee. The message listed the names and social security numbers of company staff, as well as information on "how to bypass security at a Chiron office." Addressing Chiron, the message said, "Send a fax to SHAC saying you will never use HLS again, and you can avoid paying for lawyers, security, and broken windows."

Two months later, activists calling themselves the "Animal Liberation Brigade" and "Revolutionary Cells" took responsibility for setting off two pipe bombs at the Chiron office in Emeryville, California. The bombs caused relatively minor damage, but a communiqué posted to one of SHAC's Web sites stated, "You might be able to protect your buildings, but can you protect the homes of every employee?"

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Ecoterrorism.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=4&item=eco
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. But those sentenced did not COMMIT these crimes
They are basically convicted of "incitement" and "conspiracy"... although incitement charges usually require the actions to be completed immediately after the inciting event and clearly linked.

Basically this conviction says that if you put "Someone should commit vandalism in support of this cause" and someone DOES, you are guilty.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. None of them were involved with that
What they're accused of it posting about such activities on a website.

In short, what they were convicted of is analagous to charging newspapers with terrorism for posting the unibomber manifesto. Except that it's only illegal if you do it with the intent to harm the business of an animal-exploiting company such as HLS.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
41. Bull its similar to that hit list of abortion doctors.
Would it be proper for free republic to publish the names and personal info of DUers urging action?
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. The animal fascist are on the way. Bush is becoming un-glued.
What will those people think of next?
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Bragi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. Downing Civil Liberties
Isn't it always the case that draconian laws hastily enacted to make a political statement eventually get used for purposes far from what was initially intended?

And so it is that America's brand new shiny terrorism laws have been used to arrest obnoxious animal rights crusaders.

These miscreants are no doubt hostile to the will of the sensible majority, and engaging in deplorable tactics which ought not be used in a free and open society.

But however deviant or loathsome these people may be, they are in a different category than the "terrorists" who were under consideration when recent anti-terrorism laws were passed.

It isn't clear to me from the article the full extent of the behaviour that lead to these terrorism charges. I'm not sure if the animal rights campaign included real harm or danger to people, or was it focused strictly on the economic prosepcts of the company.

To the degree that the harm being stopped by this legal action is purely the economic impact of the campaign on the company, to that degree this prosecution raises concerns. Declaring politically-motivated anti-corporate behaviour terrorism seems a stretch to me, and an unwelcome one at that.

- B
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. NOW I feel much safer............
Edited on Tue Sep-12-06 04:33 PM by Double T
knowing that the Freedom of Assembly and the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution no longer matter and have been canceled. What the f--k did they say we were fighting for???? Police State?????
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Feingold warned of this---using the law for purposes other than for Terror
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astonamous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. Websites with the names of Doctors who perform abortions...
Whatever happened in those cases where the Doctors names are listed and then crossed out or marked with red (blood) showing that the doctors are targets?

Trudy
www.pryorsplanet.com
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #19
42. They were shut down in 2002
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astonamous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. Thanks. n/t
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. I am an animal rights advocate, but
the Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty group was a bit extreme in their targeting of Huntindon employees.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. As ever, we should put the shoe on the other hand
...so to speak. ;)

"...During the three-week trial before U.S. District Judge Anne Thompson, jurors heard that defendants urged sympathizers to harass Huntingdon employees, vandalize their cars and publish the names, addresses and phone numbers of their families on a Web site."

Consider decrying this decision if it concerned a website inviting readers to target clinic workers. :shrug:

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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. There were reminders all over the website to keep actions legal
For the most part, people engaged in really creative means of legal protest.

If you make a website encouraging people to write to clinic workers, let thier neighbors know what they do for a living, etc. that's perfectly legal, even if you're very clear about your intent to shut the clinic down. Otherwise legal protest intended to shut a business down is only illegal in the context of AR. That's the free speech issue here.
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yes, but if the reminders had a metaphoric wink
...then it's another matter.

It's a question of whether it was a legal protest. Were employees terrorized? Intent of the speakers is less relevant than the actions, IMO. If your intent in yelling fire in the proverbial theater is a protest of the theater showing, say, a racist film series, and people are hurt in the scuffle, your free speech isn't protected. :shrug:
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Laws already exist for vandalism, harassment, etc
The SHAC website organizers were never connected to any of those activities. They ran a website. They could run such a website to target nearly any other business operating in America with full first amendment protection, but businesses built on hurting animals are currently afforded greater protection from otherwise lawful protest than any others.
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Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. "Animal Enterprise Protection Act"? The name itself
reeks of rightwing predatory thought.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
27. These kids have done nothing compared to what
Huntingdon does to animals, very sad situation :cry:
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. while RIGHT wing terror goes routinely unpunished
and minimized. phelps and his ilk could easily be prosecuted for 'interstate stalking' for example.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-12-06 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. How can we help? Here thoughtful people are arrested while the
neo-con traitors roam free, ruining the country and the world with their outrageous lies and their pollution and their crime. Put the Bushites on trial here or the Hague. I am not particular.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. thoughful people?
their cause seems to be to make sure that new medicines, cosmetics, and other chemicals cannot be tested for safety

i have better things to do

yes, put bush and his ilk on trial but these are not good people either
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. why not test them on criminals instead?
Edited on Wed Sep-13-06 07:09 AM by Triana
take them to the prisons and test them on convicted murders and rapists. It can be their repayment in service to society. Or, is that too 'inhumane'? Why? Crooks, murderers, and rapists deserve better treatment than innocent animals?

Interesting...

Very.

Interesting.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way in which its animals are treated" --Ghandi
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
48. ...
"Crooks, murderers, and rapists deserve better treatment than innocent animals? "

Yes.

Duh.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. You need to look at Lefty Mom's sig line...
"Ask the experimenters why they experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are like us.' Ask the experimenters why it is morally OK to experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are not like us.' Animal experimentation rests on a logical contradiction." -Professor Charles R. Magel"

You still have not answered the question except with a contradiction that makes no sense.

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #55
67. That's a pretty stupid argument, IMHO.
It's OK to test on animals because animals are "like" us in a biochemical and molecular biological sense.

Frankly, Triana, animal experimentation is required. There's no legitimate alternative. I wish there were. Scientists love animals just as much as the next person. But there's just no alternative.

If you don't like it, feel free to personally boycott pharmaceuticals.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #33
62. That way lies Rump Of Skunk and Madness
How on Earth would you ensure that informed consent was truly given, and not coerced? What would the less ethical researchers (like the ones who laugh as they beat up the puppy in that one undercover film) do given a captive human population that they already think of as scum? Every time this plan has been tried it's gone horribly wrong.

Tucker
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
70. so you would rather test on humans than on people
our prisons are filled w. innocent men, check out the "innocence project" sometime

you want to test on human beings instead of animals first?

i'm sorry, that is just so mengele i can't get around it

i think i had better leave this thread before i say something i'll regret

did you know that greg palast had just been arrested? i wonder how many other political prisoners could be used as experimental subjects under your regime, works for china all right i guess
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jilln Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. So glad to hear that you have better things to do
While animals are being tortured and killed for new oven cleaners. You must be very proud.

Maybe you should take a look at the undercover footage of the company punching beagle puppies in the face, dissecting live monkeys, etc. before you decide they're doing good, helpful science.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #30
46. No, they want them tested safely
There are safer and humane alternatives to animal testing, done by companies that don't have long histories of horrific animal abuse.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. EXACTLY! (n/t)
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
57. Encourage people not to break this law
That way they won't be snet to jail.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. These three folks
didn't break any laws, as we'll all see, I think, upon appeal.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Certainly not any laws that will pass constitutional muster
The good thing about this long term (and it's a damn shame people will be robbed of thier freedom first) is that there had to be a AETA conviction in order to test the constitutionality of the law.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Aha, but on appeal
may they garner a Cutler-esque attorney that upon victory, proves and puts forth case law that dictates the UNconstitutionality of this law.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Exactly.
I'd say the chances of that are actually pretty good.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Hee hee!
Pretty good? Nothing. The appeal is almost being fought over. Good thing it's not in Florida. Our VERY litigious lawyer is gnashing his teeth over this.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #60
82. Apparently a jury of their peers saw the evidence differently
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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. Yes, and juries never wrongly convict people.
:eyes:
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
31. animal rights activists are terrorists?
who knew?:shrug:
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peacebuzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
34. This stinks. Terrorist web designers and keyboarders. Is DU next?
and careful about what you read on this....MSM is working this one up.

Liberate those poor animals ...... and especially boycott the products being tested ......
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
43. Animal Rights Advocates Given Prison Terms (NY Times)
TRENTON, Sept. 12 — In a courtroom crowded with animal rights supporters, a federal district judge on Tuesday sentenced three people to prison terms of four to six years for their roles in a campaign of threats and harassment against a company that runs an animal testing laboratory.

The three were described at their trial as coordinators of a group dedicated to shutting down Huntingdon Life Sciences, a British company with a laboratory in New Jersey. The company’s employees, their families and people who did business with Huntingdon were threatened and their property vandalized as part of the group’s campaign.

<snip>

The judge, Anne E. Thompson, sentenced the former president of Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty, Kevin Kjonaas, 28, of Minneapolis, to six years in prison. Lauren Gazzola, 26, of Connecticut, the group’s former campaign coordinator, was sentenced to four years and four months. The Web site coordinator, Jacob Conroy, 30, of Oakland, Calif., received a four-year sentence.

<snip>

The defendants were convicted in March of conspiracy and stalking, but not with carrying out any destructive acts. Their lawyers argued that they were socially conscious young people who were carried away by their beliefs. Judge Thompson acknowledged receiving hundreds of letters urging leniency in her sentencing.

more at link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/13/nyregion/13animal.html

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Are they going to do the same thing to people who harrass
abortion clinics? If not, what's their excuse?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. I think this is the same group that was convicted using Terrorist laws.
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ehrnst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
47. But if they bomb an abortion clinic, they get bankruptcy protection...
I guess bombing in the name of God isn't terrorism...well, depending on what particular name your God goes by.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
50. Meanwhile....
The TERRORISTS who organized and perpetrated a SUCCESSFUL terrorist attack on the US AFTER 9-11 remain FREE and FORGOTTEN.

This is the ONLY TERROR ATTACK on the US that used REAL WMD (weaponized Anthrax).

This SUCCESSFUL TERROR ATTACK occurred AFTER 9-11, killed AMERICANS, and SHUT DOWN the Federal Government!


"Every one has a plan...Until you hit them in the mouth." --Mike Tyson
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
51. the ALF and ELF and such related people are pretty crazy
but it is also pretty crazy to prosecute them under terrorism laws. if this happens then i want people who attack or plan to attack abortion clinics to be called out for what they are - terrorists.
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. they are not crazy
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. i have met many
Edited on Wed Sep-13-06 12:45 PM by mark414
and yes, they're just as crazy and irrational and zealous as an anti-choice wingnut, the only difference is that they're our wingnuts
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #53
66. No, you haven't. n/t
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mark414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #66
84. oh. i'm sorry.
i guess you know who i know better than i do. i have a couple friends in jail right now for doing some of this crazy ELF shit.

burning SUVs and big resorts doesn't do anything positive for your cause!
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One_Life_To_Give Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
58. $1 Million in restitution?
according to the New York times article.

Just what did they do to the employees?
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
69. Why does Pharma test on animals, they do use the shit?!
There are people sitting in prison for Life, murdure, Rape and molestation..They need to test their people shit on people, NOT ANIMALS!
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. yes a man in my parish was in prison for rape for 15 years
DNA test finally freed him, he was innocent

our court system does not work, people are put in prison for life who did no wrong in many cases except walk down a wrong street on a wrong night and not have a powerful friend

so let us add to our crimes by not only taking these people's freedom but by using them in medical experiments

christ

i weep for the human race

mengele did not die, he was reborn a thousand times over, let us now weep for the lobsters who scream when being cooked but shrug our shoulders at the humans being tortured and even advocate further medical "tests" we can put them to

how dare we say anything about the witch burners when we ourselves cry for humans to be live sacrifices?
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #71
72. Animals do not use the shit, they do not need to be used...
...and discarded like trash and for what??! If someone has been convicted and with out a doubt, then use, they should be used as lab rats. Instead of getting the electric chair or lethal injection you get sent to a Pharma lab.

Animals should not have to suffer for us.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. That way lies Rump Of Skunk and Madness
How on Earth would you ensure that informed consent was truly given, and not coerced? What would the less ethical researchers (like the ones who laugh as they beat up the puppy in that one undercover film) do given a captive human population that they already think of as scum? Every time this plan has been tried it's gone horribly wrong.

Moreover, it's silly to say animals don't use pharmaceuticals; my animals sure do when they get sick or in pain. (Celebrex is the awesome painkiller for birds, even if it's bad for humans.)

I do not doubt that it is possible to develop pharmaceuticals using non-animal methods and informed-consent clinical trials, but substituting one unethical practice for another will never be acceptible.

Tucker
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. Animal Testing is NOT acceptable!
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. Neither is testing on non-consenting humans.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. If your 'concented' to lethal injection...yes, by all means test on'em
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:40 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. The death penalty is also unethical, but one has naught to do with t'other
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. Animals do not concent to dying for us...its horrible and barbaric.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
83. Even the SPLC calls them terroristic. Jail sounds right for these folks.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=42

This British-born group, now firmly established in the United States, is waging war on anyone involved with Huntingdon Life Sciences, which tests drugs on approximately 70,000 rats, dogs, monkeys and other animals each year. In the process, SHAC is rewriting the rules by which even the most radical eco-activists have traditionally operated.

In the past, even the edgiest American eco-warriors drew the line at targeting humans. They trumpeted underground activists' attacks on businesses and laboratories perceived as abusing animals or the environment — the FBI reports more than 600 incidents, causing $43 million in damage, since 1996.

But spokespeople for the two most active groups in the U.S., the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), have always been quick to claim that their underground cells have never injured or killed any people.

Since 1999, however, members of both groups have been involved with SHAC's campaign to harass employees of Huntingdon — and even distantly related business associates like Marsh — with frankly terroristic tactics similar to those of anti-abortion extremists.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
85. Cutting your grass will be a crime next... well...
only if you are a liberal..... then you will have to wear a special logo because you are a terraist
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