For US soldiers, Iraq is still about 9/11

[Barrett808]

For US soldiers, Iraq is still about 9/11
by Ahmed Faddam

BAGHDAD (AFP) - Staff Sergeant Adam Navarro was just a New York City police cadet when the Twin Towers came crashing down and his class was thrown into uniform and put onto the city streets to keep order.

"To my back were the Twin Towers, still in flames, with smoke and debris and that smell. We set up barriers and basically we shut down that whole street," he recalled at a ceremony outside Baghdad marking the fifth anniversary of the attacks.

"They told us: 'This is our street, protect this street, one street at a time we are going to take back this city,'" he recalled. "For me this is one long day that 9/11 started. And now the United States is in Iraq, and I'm still serving that day."

The solemn ceremony held near Baghdad airport at one of Saddam Hussein's crumbling palaces on the edge of an artificial lake teeming with carp, showed that for so many Americans in Iraq, 9/11 and Iraq are inextricably linked.

Speaking at the event, US ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad said the true monument to victims of 9/11 were the "50 million people liberated from tyranny since that day," referring to the people of Afghanistan and Iraq.

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060911/wl_mideast_afp/usattacks5yearsiraq

[Solly Mack]

1. For "some" maybe.....but some ain't all and never has been

and never will be

[Kikosexy2]

3. Military brainwashing...

needs to be banned period....our poor troops...so sad...

[Marrak]

11. Our troops languish and die...

while the Bush-War administration takes cover by rewritting law.
<>

[saigon68]

31. Rustic Knuckle Draggers with brains to match

The Low hanging fruit on the tree

good thing they have an M-16 at the ready to kill the muslim man (and woman)

[Avalux]

2. OH PLEASE. If that isn't propoganda, I don't know what is.

"US ambassador to Iraq Zalmay Khalilzad said the true monument to victims of 9/11 were the "50 million people liberated from tyranny since that day"

:wtf:

[Tempest]

6. 50 million liberated, 49.8 million now living in fear

The other 200,000 were killed, mostly by the U.S.

Everyone else is living in fear of secular violence in Iraq and the resurging Taliban in Afghanistan.

[brentspeak]

12. "Mostly by the U.S."

You have some evidence to back that up? Or is the U.S. troops who are dressing up as Sunni or Shiite suicide bombers?

[Tempest]

13. Oh please

Almost 100,000 Iraqis alone were killed in the first days of war during shock and awe.

[brentspeak]

14. That's your evidence?

[Realityhack]

18. Best numbers I could find.

The problem is that the pentagon works very hard NOT to collect civilian death counts.

If the 100k figure is correct it would prove the other posters point. And that number has been put forth but it is also criticized.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/press/pr12.php

Who did the killing?

• US-led forces killed 37% of civilian victims.


• Anti-occupation forces/insurgents killed 9% of civilian victims.


• Post-invasion criminal violence accounted for 36% of all deaths.


• Killings by anti-occupation forces, crime and unknown agents have shown a steady rise over the entire period.

(NOTE: This data is as of 2005)
(Also note: This data appears extremely conservative as it does not appear to make any allowance for un-recorded deaths – as far as I can tell)

Thus according to what appears to be a rather conservative estimate US forces did the plurality of killing as of that date.
However as quoted above the rate of Iraqi on Iraqi violence has steadily increased.

Now an argument could be made that many of those deaths are the responsibility of the US because we invaded without a plan. But that does not appear to be what the previous poster was saying.

I would say that as of 1 year after the invasion the US could be said to have killed more civilians than Iraqis but I think over time we are seeing that reversed so now the vast majority are killed by other Iraqis.

So while I agree that the numbers now reflect more Iraqi on Iraqi deaths than US killings of civilians I think it would be prudent for us to remember that we did in fact kill thousands of Iraqi civilians. This appears to be a fact wither you chose to see it as avoidable or not.

Also note:

(from same)
How many were injured?

• At least 42,500 civilians were reported wounded.


• The invasion phase caused 41% of all reported injuries.


• ...

[Joe for Clark]

16. Well, Tempest is about right -

And if he (she) doesn't have the back-up, I Do.

I think you were misunderstood or are being misunderstood.

There was a sarcasim in that speak. If you meant otherwise, give me a reply.

Joe

[davekriss]

23. Don't need a link, brentspeak

All one needs to do is point out that the 200,000 dead and 49.8 million living in fear would not be so if the U.S. did not illegally and immorally and aggressively invade Iraq. All the evil that now happens, the civil war we sparked -- that evil accrues to the moral ledger of the United States for having illegally invaded in the first place. Period.

[lgn19087]

27. 200,000 killed

mostly by the US? Where is your evidence for that assertion?

[0007]

32. 'Tis more like 250,000 and that's not counting the sanctions

Do a little research and the the numbers will catch up with 'ya my friend.



[Joe for Clark]

4. For Christ sake,

Patriotism takes a back seat the moment someone takes aim at your head.

Even when you believe in the cause.

No one belives in Iraq. Afghanistan, maybe -

I personally don't believe this guy ever got shot at.

And Khalilzad doesn't know which planet he lives on.
Who got liberated, the guys that voted for hezbollah or hamas,

Is that who we liberated???

Joe

[leftchick]

5. oh for gods sakes

I seem to remember someone telling me how they played the towers coming down over and ovewr on the tvs at the Bases in Iraq for quite some time. Add rush and faux news into the mix and Mission Accomplished! Brainwashed soldiers! (except for the ones with critical thinking skills) very sad.

[brentspeak]

7. From my discussions with troops who've served in Iraq

Most of them say that the majority of troops do not believe that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. Furthermore, there's quite a bit of confusion as to what exactly the mission is still about.

[shadowknows69]

9. I concur brentspeak

To most of them the mission is irrelevant at this point. They're just punching the clock and watching out for each other.

[Kelvin Mace]

8. Note to soldiers:

BUY A FARGIN' CLUE!

You have been used and the only thing that awaits you is a body bag if you don't wise up.

[Sapere aude]

10. How do you tell someone to die for a lie?

[humbled_opinion]

26. Exaclty what John Kerry said about Vietnam... Why won't he publicly

state the same about Iraq... I would love to hear "Mr. President how can you ask a man to be the last man to die for your mistake?" I would love it.

[karynnj]

30. April 22, 2006

I have come here today to reaffirm that it was right to dissent in 1971 from a war that was wrong. And to affirm that it is both a right and an obligation for Americans today to disagree with a President who is wrong, a policy that is wrong, and a war in Iraq that weakens the nation.

I believed then, just as I believe now, that the best way to support the troops is to oppose a course that squanders their lives, dishonors their sacrifice, and disserves our people and our principles. When brave patriots suffer and die on the altar of stubborn pride, because of the incompetence and self-deception of mere politicians, then the only patriotic choice is to reclaim the moral authority misused by those entrusted with high office.

I believed then, just as I believe now, that it is profoundly wrong to think that fighting for your country overseas and fighting for your country's ideals at home are contradictory or even separate duties. They are, in fact, two sides of the very same patriotic coin. And that's certainly what I felt when I came home from Vietnam convinced that our political leaders were waging war simply to avoid responsibility for the mistakes that doomed our mission in the first place. Indeed, one of the architects of the war, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, confessed in a recent book that he knew victory was no longer a possibility far earlier than 1971.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2006_04_22.html

In addition, Kerry and Feingold were the Senators pushing an amendment that would get the soldiers out by July 2007

It's hard to believe that you didn't hear any of this. Or, these comments from September 9, 2006:

"It is immoral for old men to send young Americans to fight and die in a conflict without a strategy that can work - on a mission that has not weakened terrorism but worsened it.

It is immoral to lie about progress in that war to get through a news cycle or an election"

[winston61]

15. Liberated all right-

tens of thousands of Iraqis liberated from all that bothersome respiration and eating and loving and laughing. Nearly 3,000 American GIs liberated from the trials of military service. This government can suck my ass.

[xchrom]

17. liberated so they could live in more murder, mayhem and chaos --

that is certainly true in iraq and becoming more true in afghanistan.

[phrenzy]

19. This guy must have attended something much like 'Jesus Camp' (n/t)

[oblivious]

20. Remember this poll? 85% say Iraq mission to get Saddam for 911 attack.

28 Feb, 2006
The poll, conducted by Zogby International in conjunction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies interviewed 944 military respondents at several undisclosed locations throughout Iraq.

* 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks
http://www.iraqanalysis.org/info/55

[bitchkitty]

21. That should read -

showed that for so many MORONS, 9/11 and Iraq are inextricably linked.

[minnesota_liberal]

22. It's easier to classify them as morons than to examine cause/effect

"Group think" is real, although some people are more susceptible to it than others. Put anyone in an adverse situation and they're going to have tunnel vision to some extent. As long as the brass wants troops to focus on the mission, it's to their advantage to perpetuate the 9/11-Saddam Myth.

[Supersedeas]

24. So, the spinning continues from multiple levels of govt image making

[plasticsundance]

25. Why look for the facts?

When one can act upon his/her xenophobia.

[leftofthedial]

28. It is unspeakably sad that they are dying for Halliburton's profits

and they don't even know it

[Nihil]

29. Sorry? Are people surprised about this?

Let's face it, intelligence is the last thing you want in a squaddie.

Elite troops are a different kettle of fish but all you really want in a
standard issue, mass-produced, interchangeable soldier is superb stamina,
no hang-ups about killing strangers and an ability to follow orders without
question. It's the same in every country.

Senior officers do not WANT a soldier to ask "Why am I here?" so they
will allow any bullshit that satisfies the soldier's limited curiosity
to remain unquestioned whether that bullshit is "Because of 9/11",
"Because Saddam was a naughty boy" or "Because you're defending America".
Any hint of the truth ("Because the men at the top want more money")
will be immediately squashed in case it spreads.

Jeez ... you'll be expecting the American public to be concerned about
the casualty rate next ...