Victory in Iraq necessary before withdrawal, Dem trio says

[ECH1969]

The United States must remain in Iraq until it can gain victory there, three Democrats told the Western Slope lobbying organization Club 20 on Saturday.

Iran, meanwhile, can be brought to heel with United Nations sanctions, said the three.

U.S. Sen. Ken Salazar and U.S. Reps. John Salazar and Mark Udall said the war in Iraq has to be won against what Ken Salazar termed a “radical jihadist movement” that continues to fight a guerilla war against the Iraqi and coalition forces.

“There are some very tough times ahead of us on the ground in Iraq,” he said. Iraq’s neighbors, such as Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and others also need to contribute to stabilizing the country, he said.

http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/content/news/stories/2006/09/09/9_10_Club_20_Iraq_WWW.html

[Rex]

1. Define 'victory'?

I'm sure some dumbfucks said the same thing in Vietnam. We have to win at any cost. Win what?

[nosmokes]

14. exactly. we had to destroy iraq in order to save it.

that would be victory. but then no one could ever could ever accuse 'merka of cuttin and runnin like them frenchies. i say we declare victory in iraq on 9/11 2006. open the champagne and perrier, spread the pate around, set up a payment plan and get the hell outta there.

[ShortnFiery]

21. Dumb-asses don't realize that there's no Victory in ceasing an illegal

OCCUPATION of a Sovereign Nation ... whether they want us there or not.

If they have any integrity they best read their Military Science 101 text books and realize that there is "no good withdrawal plan" but only those which may be "less awful" ... if you wish to extract our troops and have the natives incur less casualties (on both sides), Our Troops Complete Withdrawal should come sooner rather than later, i.e., Publicly Announced and within ONE Year. :(

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. He can't see that as long as we are there we will be fighting them.

They are dumb politicians wrapped up with saying and doing what they thing is necessary to win re-election and nothing else.

[bvar22]

4. Some people are getting RICH off the War on the Iraqi People.

A powerful handful of CEOs and their lobbyists are making BILLIONS.
Democrats who still support this WAR are sucking on their tits.


"In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic Party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."
http://alternet.org/wiretap/29788/

8. Over 60% oppose the War on the Iraqi People.

9. 92% of ALL AMERICANS support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. This was the same way it went during the Vietnam war & the same

justification. It wasn't until the Tet Offensive happened that the congress started to realize that no matter what happened after we left we had to leave. This one gets sticky because of the never discussed problem of surrendering all that oil to the "insurgents". That is truly unimaginable to them, and that's why we will be doing this war for years to come.

[Art_from_Ark]

6. Someone should remind these gentlemen

that their esteemed leader declared over three years ago, with much fanfare, that the mission was "accomplished".

[Phredicles]

3. Isn't Sen. Salazar the one who's still campaigning for Lieberman?

If so, 'nuff said.

[rpannier]

15. Yep.

[oblivious]

5. Victory was achieved some time ago. Announced to the world.

So it's well past time to pack up and get out.

Iran cannot be brought to heel by UN sanctions or by any other method. Very few countries even pretend to give a shit about what the US wants any more. And if the truth be known, Iran is fast becoming more influential in the world.

edit: typo

[Kelvin Mace]

8. More help from the Vichy Democrats

squad. Helping the GOP since 1992.

[Art_from_Ark]

9. Vichy Democrats have been around since at least 1981

when they were referred to as "boll weevils" who helped Reagan ram through his anti-labor, anti-poor agenda.

But the argument could be made that the Vichy Democrat movement was started by Strom Thurmond, who bolted from the party in 1948 because of mainstream Democrats' inclusion of civil rights for minorities in the party platform.

[MisterP]

10. technically, the Dixicrats have been in the party since its inception

for significant swaths of the 19th century, the parties were more regional than ideological--both tried to surpass the other in the excessive nonsense of the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act, for example

[IndianaGreen]

11. I would like to see these gentlemen going to Iraq as combat soldiers

let's see how brave they are when their asses get shot!

[ninkasi]

12. That is impossible

There is no way to achieve a victory against what they call a "radical jihadist movement". There is no country to surrender to the U.S., and it's not possible to keep the various factions in Iraq who are fighting us, themselves, or both.

This is not a war. Congress has not declared war, because we didn't go to war against Iraq, we went to war because Bush wanted a war. Does anybody seriously believe that one fine day, there will be no shots fired, no bombs exploding, no revenge killings, and that somebody...I'm not sure who they think it will be...will wave a white flag, and surrender?

If those Dems seriously think that our presence in Iraq will not widen the hatred felt for us, and creating a new crop of terrorists, they are mistaken. Every single thing the Republicans said would happen, didn't. The world, and America are in more danger thanks to frat-boy's arrogance. Every day we stay simply makes matters worse. They should not be supporting the administration in this tragic, unnecessary war.

[Crunchy Frog]

13. Ken Salazar is dead to me. n/t

[xchrom]

16. uh -- the door to the other party is over there --

[acmavm]

19. That's an interesting remark. It's known that a majority of the dems

(the people, not the clowns in Washington) favor getting out. And these three monkeys say EXACTLY with the bush** administration is saying. Which gives credence and support to the bush** administration line of staying the 'course'. (I won't even mention that most of the country now thinks the war is a mistake and we need to get the hell out. Or maybe I will. Yep, I will.)

And because someone takes offense (which I do as well, but they don't represent me)because they are supporting this illegal, immoral, and UNWINNABLE war, you tell them to join the republican party.

Well, aren't you special?

We need to get rid of these quisling slugs in our party and find some democrats with integrity and backbone.

[xchrom]

20. lol -- even the bigest tent in the whole wide world

has walls.

[Vinca]

17. How can anyone define "victory" in Iraq?

Is it when there are 10 car bombs a day instead of 15? 10 decapitated bodies instead of 30? 1 dead American soldier instead of 4? If "victory" is no bombs, no bodies and no dead soldiers, we'll be there for decades. Something really pissed me off last week. I heard a blurb about the new Iraqi government just coming back from their summer vacation. WTF? Add that to the shots of young Iraqi men smoking and playing board games on the sidewalk while our young men and women are dying for them and I'm not a happy U.S. citizen.

[unhappycamper]

18. Hate to point this out, but NO ONE ever won an occupation.

History shows the home team eventually 'wins.'

[madville]

23. So the occupation of Germany and Japan were failures ?

Just saying that there have been successful occupations and turn arounds after wars in the past.

As far as Iraq goes we shouldn't have been there in the first place. I do have mixed feelings about a complete withdrawal and the current policy. To me a complete withdrawal would be very irresponsible and the country would implode within days, far worse than it is at present. We do have an obligation at this point to try to help them get it under control. On the other hand it is a lost cause because the minute we leave, whether it be in one year or ten, the place is going to fall apart anyway so why waste the American lives and resources on a futile effort.

In all likelyhood the minute they get the chance the Sunnis and Shiites are going to be at each others' throats full blast the minute we are gone, Genocide on a major scale is a very real possibility. Without control of the government and military like they once had under Saddam, the Sunnis will probably be slaughtered eventually by the Shiites who probably feel the Sunnis have some major payback coming for the last 30 years.

[leesa]

22. These three need to be thrown out. They are GOP operatives like

Lieberman.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

24. "There are some tough times ahead of us"

Then enlist, you motherf*cking bastard. Before one more American dies for the sake of "staying the course," I was to see your ass in a uniform and carrying a weapon.