House Votes to Outlaw Horse Slaughter

[Judi Lynn]

House Votes to Outlaw Horse Slaughter
By LIBBY QUAID , 09.07.2006, 06:55 PM

The House brushed aside objections from horse doctors and the White House and voted Thursday to outlaw slaughtering horses for people to eat.

Critics of the practice made an emotional appeal, showing photographs of horses with bloodied and lacerated faces, the result of being crammed into trailers destined for slaughterhouses.

Celebrities also turned up the pressure: Actress Bo Derek was on hand for Thursday's vote, and country singer Willie Nelson and oil tycoon T. Boone Pickens have been campaigning against horse slaughter.

The House vote was 263-146. Lawmakers thought they had ended the practice with a vote last year, but instead of banning it outright, Congress yanked the salaries and expenses of federal inspectors. In response, the Bush administration simply started charging plants for inspections, and the slaughter continued.
(snip/...)

http://www.forbes.com/entrepreneurs/entrelaw/feeds/ap/2006/09/07/ap3001590.html

[Roxy66]

1. I agree with this Legislation....But did they spend the entire day on this

one issue?

[Idioteque]

2. That would have been a tough vote for me.

I like to think of my self as a libertarian liberal and I don't think I have any business criticizing others for what they eat. I wouldn't personally eat horse but it is no different than a cow or a pig. Then again, if you took the bill and replaced "horse" with "dog" there is no way I could vote no after thinking about my dog. It's such an emotional issue...I probably would have voted present.

[LostinVA]

15. In this country, horses are usually companion animals like dogs and cats

and not treated as livestock. That's the difference here. We don't allow cats or dogs to be slaughtered for food, and to me, it's very close to the same thing. I've never had a horse, but I've known many people who do. I think a similar case can be made for certain breeds of bunnies, too.

[Sydnie]

3. I am so glad to hear that

I listened to part of that debate today and was totally disqusted with those that were for it. It was repulsive.

[Kagemusha]

4. Ah that's right! Congress thought it'd make horse meat uninspected

and therefore illegal.

Boy did they get fooled.

[bowens43]

5. What a waste of time.

People eat animals. Eating a horse or a dog is no different then eating a cow or a pig.

[flvegan]

7. Not "a waste of time"

People eat animals by choice, largely. Horsemeat is largely exported to European consumers, so it's not like it's a benefit to people in need of nutrition.

It's a positive step towards recognizing inhumane treatment in the slaughter of animals for food.

[Solitaire]

9. I disagree...completely

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." Mohandas Gandhi

Brutally transporting a horse to it's death and then hanging it by it's hind legs so they can slit it's throat is more than repulsive and cruel.

Perhaps when we learn how to treat animals with kindness and respect, we will learn how to treat each other in the same manner.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Alright.

Where and how would you slaughter a horse?

[LostinVA]

16. Of course it is, in this culture at least

Cats and dogs are completely companion animals, and horses are almost always teated much more like a companion animal than livestock. People who kill cats and dogs for food in this country should be arrested and jailed... and I think there's is a very legit case made for horses.

The people I know who have horses don't consider them livestock. And, when it's time for them to pass to a different paddock, a vet with a humane killer will be called.

Very interesting POV you have there.

[flvegan]

37. Intriguing how the value of an animal

is based in the current value given by a particular human being.

Dog, cat, horse...okay (because a person says so).

Livestock...meh, not so much. Must be a different heart, a different blood flowing...

Very interesting POV YOU have there.

[semillama]

48. Isn't the value of anything because a person says so?

Value is a human concept. Without humans, nothing has "value". It's not an inherent quality. Not that intriguing, but pretty common to have different values for animals across cultures and even within cultures. Hey, some people keep pigs for pets; others enjoy a good set of ribs. Horses make it into dog food all the time. Why not make them into people food as well?

Sometimes the value we assign to animals is seriously skewed from the emotions we assign to them. Horses are a great example, especially so-called wild horses. Wild horses are horrible for the environment in the US. They destroy habitat like no one's business, and are an invasive species, but because they're horses, the BLM can't eradicate them, which is sorely needed (Ted Williams calls the pro-wild horse folks the "Horse Mafia"). Another great example are deer, which are also way overpopulated and need to be managed, but because they're cute and look like Bambi, the necessary steps aren't taken to manage them.

[Tsiyu]

52. My horses have souls because I say so

In other words. I get the point.

But I have to correct one misperception:

They destroy habitat like nobody's business

Actually, herd animals used to be the regenerators of habitat. There is now a practice going to bring back failing, neglected land by allowing large herds to move through that area several times a year. Horses, as one example, "till" the earth with their hooves, re-seed and fertilize with their waste and graze down native grasses and vegetation so that there are healthier root systems.

In nature, they continually move so that the land is not overgrazed. So, too, with good land management. It's not the horses' fault that humans don't know what the hell they're doing. The horses know what to do.

The before and after pictures of land treated to this practice are stunning.

And BTW, my horses do have souls to me. The chickens? Maybe not. Who knows? Better to err on the side of compassion.

[flvegan]

54. If your ego says so, then yes.

Otherwise, value is inherent. Value is maligned and skewed by people in how they personally see/judge them, thus assigning their personal opinion of value to them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. completely agree

its ethnocentric

[greccogirl]

84. I agree. When will they

outlaw eating pigs, cows, chickens and the rest?

[and-justice-for-all]

6. Outlawed...YES!!!!!!

[BadgerKid]

8. It also protects the beef industry

or what's left of it.

[LeftyMom]

11. Horse meat is mostly sold to Europe and Japan

Thier current skepticism about buying US cow flesh has far more to do with the reasonable concern that it's not being adequately screened for diseases that may kill them than with competition from horse flesh.

[SmokingJacket]

10. How are cows different from horses? nt

[petersjo02]

20. I don't ride a cow, but I do ride my horses

Also I don't take a cow camping and trail riding, along with my dog; don't take a cow to Arizona with me to spend the winter and go riding in the mountains, don't put shoes on cows, don't put fly masks on cows to keep the face flies at bay, don't feed cows peppermints, have never named a cow Maggie or Shorty or Invest in Generator or Merry Bell's Gal or Night Eyre or Toby or Copy's Black Ace or Thunder's Rhythm ore Magic's Miss Sunshine. Cows are raised for food, as are pigs, chickens, etc. Horses are raised as working and companion animals in our country.

I don't know if you have a dog or a cat, but if you did, would you be at all upset if thieves stole your pet to sell for 60 cents a pound to the meat man? That's what happens to far too many horses in this country as a direct result of the horsemeat market. Shameful.

[flvegan]

38. So value then is based

on what you ride? Or what you shoe...feed peppermints to...have named...

Fucking A! It must be damn fucking cool to be God.

Sing it!

[bklyncowgirl]

42. Do you support slaughtering cats & dogs for export to China?

We have thousands of unwanted dogs in this country, many of them big meaty rottweilers and pit bulls. To horse lovers the issue is the same.

[flvegan]

44. I don't support the slaughter of any creature.

And thank you for proving my point.

[SmokingJacket]

43. I used to ride.

And I think Congress has better ways of spending its time.

What constitutes a "pet" should be a local, or at the very most, a state law -- or should fall under more general agricultural legislation. I don't see congress debating the size of chicken cages.

You *know* congress people are using this as an emotional, feel-good issue right before the election.

[Hawkowl]

58. Crosses state lines

It is a federal issue because there are only 3 slaughterhouses in the U.S. and horses are shipped all over the country to one of these 3 destinations.

[bamacrat]

12. Wow, horse slaughter.

Didnt know we ate horse.

[LeftyMom]

13. It's all for the export market nt

[Patsy Stone]

14. That's an election issue to rally the masses, eh?

I agree with it, but What.Ever.

[FILAM23]

17. Here's hoping

the Senate shoots it down or Bush vetos it.

[LeftyMom]

18. What on earth for?

:wtf:

[FILAM23]

19. Because its a bad bill

Horses deserve no more protection then any other farm animal.
It is not up to the govt to tell people what food source can
or can not be consumed. Just another damn law passed by congress
about things that are none of their business.

[LeftyMom]

21. Nobody in the US eats horse

Though I'm of the opinion that it's not right to eat any animal, horses are especially high-strung and easily spooked. Horse slaughter plants smell, and as anybody who has spent any time around a horse knows, the smell of blood or death will easily spook a horse. There is absolutely no humane way to slaughter a horse for food and the long transportation of old and injured horses to the horse slaughter plants is also inhumane.

There are many laws on the books prohibiting animal cruelty, including many on the federal level. It's one of the few issues that generally gets bipartisan support.

[FILAM23]

24. Actually horse meat is eaten in the US

Not in large quantities but to say nobody in the US eats horse
is either knowingly false or based on ignorance of the facts.

[LeftyMom]

26. Consumption of horse meat is illegal in much of the US

Except for some zoo animals, and housepets on grocery store kibble if horse winds up in the rendered mess with the euthanized pets and roadkill.

Polls show that most Americans not only are opposed to horse slaughter and consumption, they're positive it's already illegal. It is in some states (including California, we're civilized here) but unfortunately not all.

[FILAM23]

27. How long has it been illegal in CA?

I know it used to be for sale in the oriental markets in Long Beach.
This was in the 1980's
I don't think its civilized to deprive any group food that they enjoy or is
considered part of their ethnic identity, sounds rather fascist to me.

[LeftyMom]

28. The initiative passed in 1998.

Immigrant populations forced codification of other rules about animal exploitation in California that were previously just generally understood, such as a ban on the consumption of dogs.

[FILAM23]

29. Just a bunch of

facist BS

[LeftyMom]

30. Facism is dictatorial capitalism

Please enlighten me as to what that has to do with restrictions on animal cruelty.

[FILAM23]

31. Its not restricting animal cruelty

its taking away peoples rights

[LeftyMom]

33. There is no right to torture and kill another being.

You still haven't answered my question. Governments restrict behaviors all the time, please explain how this particular restriction is facistic. (Hint: The result of a democratic initiative can't be facistic, no matter how restrictive it is, as it is not the result of dictatorship, and a restriction on private enterprise would not be consistent with the crony capitalism of facist societies.)

[flvegan]

35. And ability to punctuate properly, it seems.

Invoking fascism...whatever. Wanna talk bullshit, then look upstream at your previous posts. Shameful.

[LeftyMom]

36. *snort*

:loveya:

[Judi Lynn]

22. Right. Need to save that legislation for morning after pills, gays, etc.

God forbid assholes aren't allowed to kill everything living all the time, in any numbers, any way they want, until they drop dead themselves.

Let's roll back all the laws which protect anything from cruelty and make it stick.

Make a point to start eating far more than before, and all of it meat.

[petersjo02]

23. Well, you're sure a ray of sunshine

on this thread. Thanks for your constructive and thoughtful input.

Edited to add a question: What are your credentials for such a pronouncement in favor of killing anything, any time? Just curious as to what authority made you the ultimate arbitor in this discussion.

[FILAM23]

25. Just expressing my opinion

that people should have the right to eat whatever they choose

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[winston61]

32. Everyone who supported this idiotic law should be forced

to take and stable and feed some old nag. If you eat meat then you are a steaming heap of hypocrisy. How many of you have even been inside a slaughter house? Or a chicken processing plant? Here's a thought. Let those morons in Congress who voted for this horse shit take the next step and set up regional feedlots where the old bang tails will be cared for- on the taxpayer's dime. We'll see how long that shit lasts. I don't care if I do get banned for this but sometimes the right wingers are right. There are some monumental dumb asses in the liberal ranks.

[flvegan]

34. I'm your huckleberry.

First off, no, I don't eat meat, and I do support this Bill.

Next, have you been in a slaughterhouse? What were your thoughts? I have been, so I think we can relate here. I've also been inside a battery hen farm, so I'm with you there, too.

Old bang-tails? That's some industry prone vocabulary there. You sure you're not running a premarin mare farm somewhere?

BTW, giving a shit has never been a "monumental" dumb-ass liberal stance. That is precisely what makes us different from you, er, I mean, them.

[winston61]

45. Well Huck, I have no connection with the horse industry.

And I'm sorry that I came off as so strident. As a taxpayer I bitterly resent the clowns in D.C. wasting even 5 minutes on such nonsense. I'm liberal to the bone, but this business was just a waste of time, a solution for a non-existent problem. I promise you more horses will suffer ill treatment if this bill clears the Senate. I have not seen one person step up and say they will take a dozen or so horses to care for.

[Hawkowl]

62. Not a waste of time

Sir, EMPATHY is never a waste of time. I've always thought this quality, EMPATHY, is what defines us liberals. Without empathy, we are not human, even more so, we are not alive.

[winston61]

65. Hog wash, let me see the same hand wringing for

cows, pigs, household pets, all bred and exploited for humans. Why the outcry for horses. I still say put up or shut up, put a unwanted horse in your backyard.

[LeftyMom]

72. A lot of people here do care about those other things

Why can't most of us care for an unwanted horse? Zoning. They'll usually overlook a few extra dogs or cats, but they'll damned sure show up if you've got a horse on a suburban lot.

[Doremus]

71. I noticed that industry jargon too.

Sounds like the poster may have just lost some of his income ...

Too bad, so sad.


Being unable to take advantage of the market for horse meat, maybe fewer horses will be bred. Gotta love that supply/demand thing.
:toast:

[winston61]

96. No income lost- in fact I picked up the phrase from a

Eugene O'Neill play, I think it was a line spoken by a character called Hickey. Still I yield no ground on the slaughter or horses. As long as we still eat pork and beef and fowl. What misguided liberal arrogance to presume that we can pass judgement on someone else's lifestyle when we in this country are the most wasteful on the planet. People get a clue and find something important to worry about.

[Hawkowl]

60. Not true

Horses are pets. Similar to cats and dogs but with a lot bigger brains. And humanity owes a monumental debt to horses. Farming, Transportation, Defense (Calvary) etc. We treat cats and dogs with more respect than horses and this needs to change.

If it becomes necessary to end the suffering of my horses, I will treat them the way I want to be treated. Gently put to sleep, and then cremated and dispersed.

[winston61]

66. Not everyone shares your view, some see horses as a

business enterprise, just like cows and pigs. And household pets. All bred and exploited for no other purpose than human consumption. Either as companions or supper. What gives you the right to dictate to someone as to how dispose of or use personal property?

[lonestarnot]

78. So you're in favor of animal abuse then?

Swell, nice knowing you. Maybe they will implement a cheap sledge hammer bang for people who have outlived their usefulness with someone as callous as you serving as the thumbs upper when life comes to that bend for you.

[winston61]

97. Please spare me-

Everyone who eats a steak or a chicken or a pork chop underwrites animal abuse. Go and visit a slaughterhouse or a pig feeding operation or a chicken factory. And yes we do throw away humans. Don't believe me? I drive a floral delivery truck. I'm in and out of nursing homes everyday. Trust me, after you've been in a few of those you can see that there are worse things than death. It's a relief to take a wreath into a funeral home. At least there the poor bastards are out of their misery. So spare me the spew about humane treatment.

[lonestarnot]

79. So you're in favor of animal abuse then?

Swell, nice knowing you. Maybe they will implement a cheap sledge hammer bang for people who have outlived their usefulness with someone as callous as you serving as the thumbs upper when life comes to that bend for you.

[OnyxCollie]

39. Wild horses were also being rounded up for slaughter.

To those who have responded negatively on this thread, why not kill and eat some chipmunks or robins? They bop around all over my neighborhood. Seems like such a waste not to hunt them down and kill them...

[flvegan]

40. I think I can answer this...

Easy. It's easy to suggest rounding up/killing/slaughtering another living creature so long as the individual suggesting same doesn't actually have to do it. It's sort of like...you know, that Bush fella sending kids off to die...he never really served. It's much alike.

[winston61]

46. So it's easier for our consciences to know that these horses

will ill treated and starved to death rather than being harvested for use. We have a responsibility to these animals and that is to see that they do not suffer. If this bill clears the Senate, then that is what will happen. Owners who can't or won't maintain their animals will let them starve or kill them and let the carcasses rot in the field. Will that make you feel better?

[flvegan]

55. Owners who can't or won't, and

let them starve, can face cruelty charges, hopefully. If the owner kills them in the field, quickly and humanely, then that particular animal is probably better off in light of his/her fate in the slaughter industry.

[Doremus]

87. How about breeding fewer horses?

The alternative you describe is no more painful than the current deplorable method of extermination.

If there are too many horses, how about breeding fewer of them? If wild horses are breeding too rapidly, how about humane methods of population control like sterilization or drugs?

Ah, but those things might cost a little money instead of making some, so I'm sure they won't be implemented.

[semillama]

50. Wild horses are an invasive species

and horribly destructive to the environments they currently exist in. Read Ted Williams' latest Incite column in Audubon magazine about them, he sums up all the problems with wild horses very well. I'd be very happy if there were no wild horses or burros in the US. Same goes for feral cats. If the only feasible solution is controlled, humane destruction, then that has to be the course of action, however tragic it may seem. The damage these invasive species do is too high a price to pay to soothe some folk's misplaced sentimentality.

[Tsiyu]

53. Misplaced sentimentality?

Okie dokie.

I've seen the wild horses in Montana and Wyoming. Hardly destructive given the range they have. Do you have wild horses where you live roaming freely?

Audubon doesn't always side with nature. Sometimes I think those folks believe that nature exists solely for them to make a buck off it.

Humans are the ones whose habits are destroying the planet. Funny how a few horses work for you....:eyes:

[Doremus]

83. Yes, it is interesting how it's always other species that are 'invasive'

Around here it's deer. Hungry developers turn every plot of grass into McMansions or Wal-Marts, the displaced wildlife encroaches on residential neighborhoods and instantly they are "invasive."

Here the solution of choice is sharpshooters. Nasty, but decidedly more humane than cramming them sardine-style into boxcars for the long ride to meet their fate.

And THEY'RE the invasive ones. It is to laugh.

[anotherdrew]

63. at least some feral cats and wild horses have a right to exist

somewhere.

you could say WE are an invasive species, incredibly destructive to our environment too

[Gman]

41. This ought to be one doozy of a signing statement

I wonder how Bush will word this one.

[MasonJar]

47. If they did spend all day on it and got it right finally, I approve.

Gandhi wisely observed that one can tell the greatness of a nation and its moral progress by the way it treats its animals. I totally agree with him

[yellowcanine]

51. Horse meat is actually quite tasty. A little sweeter than beef. A lot

of it is eaten in Kazakhstan. All this means is that a lot of perfectly good meat is going to be wasted. This is a decision based on emotion, not rational thinking. There is really no reason why eating horses is any more wrong than eating cows or pigs. I can understand someone taking the position that they cannot eat horse meat because horses are "companion" animals. But it is not right to impose one's culturally based ethics on someone else.

[LeftyMom]

56. Well, one doesn't have to enable others' objectionable activities

They skin dogs and cats for fur in China (and then sell much of it back to the US labeled as something else.) Should US shelters sell unwanted pets to China to be skinned alive? Should it be done here? Or should we continue to have laws that say that we find the practice unacceptable, as we do with other animal issues such as exploitation of endangered species and the killing of marine mammals?

The law doesn't say that the Europeans and Japanese can't buy horse, just that they won't be buying it from the US anymore. Chances are they'll just get it from Canada (Harper doesn't give a flying fuck about animal issues) but at least the US is no longer a party to that particular moral crime.

[anotherdrew]

64. "US no longer a party to that particular moral crime" 1 down, 1000 to go..

whoopee!

pigs are very intelligent animals you know, they probably shouldn't be killed for food either.
but then, do the things we call pigs even HAVE a natural environment anymore? same with cows, so now we've bread animals into being meat slaves but that's ok, just so long as lovely horsies don't get eaten. ridiculous. we are a nation of over-grown children.

[LeftyMom]

68. I know that.

I'm vegan. I don't eat cows or pigs either.

[Codeine]

91. Well said!

Overgrown children indeed! "Please don't kill that pretty horsie, mister!" Meanwhile most of the fat fucking slobs are tucking into a bacon-and-egg breakfast or a nice steak dinner.

Pretty animals that all the little girls have posters of have more rights than the icky ones in the factory farm/concentration camp, I suppose.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

76. food and clothing are not the same issue

one is actually necessary to live ...the other not so much

its ethnocentric for us to say horses are somehow more sacred than cows/pigs


i know you are vegan...but it would be a very sad world if we were all forced to live by someone else's moral standards...


i dont think theres anything inherently wrong with killing animals and nothing could convince me out of this as long as other non-human carnivores exist

[Hawkowl]

61. Nonsense.

Humans taste like pork by all accounts. It is tragic that millions are starving in Africa, yet millions of tons of homo sapien meat is being wasted by interring it underground. I simply can not understand why people let these "culturally biased ethics" prevent the ending of starvation as we know it.

Horses are extraordinarily intelligent. Many studies put them right up there with primates, dolphins, & parrotts. The emotional part of their brain is the same size, and is virtually indistinguishable from the emotional portion of a human brain. Anyone who has closely interacted with horses know they have all the emotions we have: joy, grief, anger, jealousy, courage and fear. I don't know if horses have souls, but I do know that if people have souls than horses certainly do.

[Doremus]

77. Would you say there's anything wrong with torturing the animals before

killing them?

If you don't think standing many hours stuffed into trailers being transported to one of only 3 slaughter houses in the US -- stressed out to the max and likely injured-- isn't torture, I think Rummy has a job for you.

[lonestarnot]

80. If you've made a living off horses, you have a different perspective.

This idea is cultural, like Koreans who eat dogs.

[Scout1071]

57. Is this a headline from 1932?

Nice priorities.

[iamjoy]

69. Do We Have A Roll Call On This?

I want to know who voed for it and who against it?

[Renew Deal]

70. I didn't know this was a problem.

Who is eating horse? I have never seen it on any menu and I have traveled all across this country. I remember horse meat controversies years ago, but nothing recent.

[Doremus]

74. Here's a recap for those who haven't kept up.

Horses are slaughtered to export their meat to Japan, China and other foreign countries.

The horses are crammed into overcrowded trailers for many hours as they are being transported to one of only 3 slaughter houses in the country. Many of them are injured along the way, and all of them endure extreme stress for long periods of time.

How people can NOT see a problem with that, I just don't understand.

This is a decent law for a country that used to value decency. And, I might add, a far sight better use of time than the usual swill that passes for Congressional business.

[lonestarnot]

81. Unfortunately, many merikans are not decent.

[Codeine]

90. That happens to millions of animals

all the time, for the food you ate for dinner tonight. Food animals are subject to horrific existences prior to being murdered for their flesh. They endure pain, overcrowding, and deprivation before they are loaded onto trailers in exactly the same fashion these horses are, and in far greater numbers. Congress can take the time to protect horses from this short period of pain prior to death but cannot be moved to do anything for animals like chickens who are treated monstrously from the moment they are born until the final agonizing second that they die?

I remain unimpressed.

[Doremus]

95. See #88.

A mountain is climbed one step at a time.

Do you decline to take a step because you can't ascend the summit in one fell swoop?

Or do you appreciate each step taken knowing you're that much closer to the top?


(BTW, I assume your campaign to reform the beef, pork and chicken industries is going well?)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

75. ethnocentric and hypocritical bill

as though horses are somehow more sacred than cows or lamb or pigs or whatever!

[lonestarnot]

82. Race horses ARE different than cows, lambs or pigs or whatever!

Dee Deeeee Deeeeee... whatever.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

93. i disagree

you can have strong attachments to any animals but one is not more sanctified than another

[Nutmegger]

85. Yeah but don't say that aloud.

It's simply because most don't have an emotional attachment to cows, pigs et cetera.

There's no reason why horses shouldn't be consumed. Keep in mind, there's a right way and a wrong way to slaughter an animal. Also note that most aminals slaughtered today are kept in poor conditions et cetera.

[Codeine]

86. What an utterly stupid and hypocritical load of shit.

These same legislators will go home and eat a steaming chunk of cow or pig flesh for dinner, or maybe the dismembered limbs of some luckless bird, all the while congratulating themselves on what a "profound moral choice" they've made. If it's wrong to eat a particular animal -- horse, in this case -- then it's wrong to eat any animal. Horses shouldn't get a pass because they're cute, right?

Color me unimpressed with the selective compassion of these fucking stooges. At least most horses live decent lives before paying a final visit to the knacker man, unlike the living hell a chicken, pig, or veal calf experiences during its short, unheralded life. Ban the slaughter and consumption of all animals and I'll believe you're something other than a sanctimonious asshole out to look good to the "Awww, isn't he cute!" set.

[Doremus]

88. So, the bill has to include all animals or it's no good?

Some would say that mountains are climbed a step at a time.

You say fuck that, it's the summit or nothing at all?


Good luck with that. And good luck with your campaign to eradicate the beef, pork and chicken market. Made any headway with it?

[Codeine]

89. What I'm saying is

that it's hypocrisy to say one animal has more value than another based on cultural prejudice and "cuteness quotient." If a Vietnamese immigrant can't tell you to stop eating cows then you can't very well expect to tell him not to eat dogs. That's what this law does when it says slaughtering one furry, four-legged mammal is a criminal act while slaughtering a dozen other species that share the same basic characteristics minus the storybook cachet is business as usual.

Wouldn't it be a more "moral" decision to say that all food animals deserve humane conditions and treatment and as painless a death as possible than it is to single out a single species for special treatment while condemning the rest to an agonizing and pain-filled life?

[Doremus]

94. I'm with you that all animals deserve humane conditions.

Would you be equally okay if those Vietnamese immigrants saw your cat wandering the neighborhood and had it for dinner? What if they frequented the local pound to do their weekly grocery shopping?

Agree with it or not, like it or not, we in America value our companion animals. People are free to feel otherwise, but they aren't free to break our laws. This is a decent bill for a change and I hope it becomes law because horses, as all other animals, deserve better treatment at the hands of humans.

[rodeodance]

92. Propably one of the beter things Congress has done in a long time.