Army recommends death for accused GIs

[kskiska]

PHOENIX - An Army investigator has recommended the death penalty for four soldiers accused of murder during a raid in Iraq.

Lt. Col. James P. Daniel Jr. made the recommendation in report obtained Saturday by The Associated Press.

Daniel found several aggravating factors that warrant a sentence of death in the case of four soldiers accused of killing three men during the May raid in the Salahuddin province.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_us/iraq_soldiers_charged_2

[MADem]

1. Holy shit.

Even if a CM doesn't rule for death, this simple recommendation might make some of these Cat IV Cowboys think twice before they forget their ROE and their Geneva lessons.

[skooooo]

3. "aggravating factors"

Means they had "fun" doing it, I guess. Sickos.

[TroglodyteScholar]

48. But where did they learn to love killing? n/t

[SoCalDem]

13. and to think that Lt. Calley got "house arrest"

hmmm.. I wonder how the "kill-em-all" repubes will take a death penalty verdict for their beloved troops :shrug:

[MADem]

20. Well, Colin Powell was the PIO for that investigation... NT

[elehhhhna]

33. Same sentence as Pol Pot.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bonhomme Richard]

4. I didn't support the death penalty before and............

I don't support it now.

[jaxx]

9. Neither do I

They teach these troops to kill and then they want to kill them for killing. Too damn much killing going on.

[struggle4progress]

10. Agree.

[mp3hound]

14. Me neither.

Never have, never will.

[ismnotwasm]

25. I agree as well n/t

[Zhade]

37. Agreed.

Life in prison, with no contact with the outside world, is fine by me.

These guys must not be allowed back into society, ever.

[peacebird]

5. Is the "aggravating factor" their stating they were ORDERED to kill...?

"The soldiers have claimed they were ordered to "kill all military-age males" during a raid on an island on a canal in the province. According to statements from some of the soldiers, they were told that the target was an al Qaeda training camp."

Perhaps the Army doesn't want THAT claim checked out in detail, cuz they don't want to follow it up the chain of command?

I wish this administration hadn't made me so f**king cynical....

[Steven_S]

6. I would think being ordered to kill.....

would be a mitigating factor, not an aggravating factor. We'll see.

[peacebird]

7. so would I - but the Army might not. Depends on who ordered it.

[IntiRaymi]

8. quite possible, actually.

And worry not, cynicism is healthy.

[Taoschick]

21. I think

The "aggravating factor" was threatening to kill a fellow soldier for not going along with it.

[atreides1]

26. That order was illegal

And those soldiers were under no obligation to follow it! By doing so, they screwed themselves and showed that they are stupid idiots
with little or no regard for human life.

And if they are convicted and don't receive the death penalty, life in prison would suffice.

[goddess40]

47. But the entire invasion is illegal

so wouldn't the entire military face charges?

I don't believe in the death penalty but I do believe in life in prison.

[Jack_DeLeon]

11. Are these the guys that raped a girl and killed her family?

[heliarc]

12. No, I'm pretty sure that the salahuddin...

incident is different from the Mahmoudiya incident where a 14 year old girl was raped and killed (described first in the US MSM as a 20something year old woman) and her younger sister was murdered. The Haditha incident involved the killing of what is described as "dozens" of civilians. The blame in the Haditha case was originally put on a roadside bomb. They are 3 different incidents.

[RebelOne]

18. No, but those guys deserve a severe penalty.

[Jack_DeLeon]

22. I definately agree on that

[uppityperson]

29. no, here is more on them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060903/ap_on_re_us/iraq_soldiers_charged
The soldiers, all from the Fort Campbell, Ky.-based 101st Airborne Division's 187th Infantry Regiment, are accused of killing three Iraqi men taken from a house May 9 on a marshy island outside Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad.

Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, Spc. William B. Hunsaker, Pfc. Corey R. Clagett and Spc. Juston R. Graber have claimed they were ordered to "kill all military age males" during the raid on the island. According to statements from some of the soldiers, they were told the target was an al-Qaida training camp.

Hunsaker told investigators that he and Clagett were attacked by the three men, who were being handcuffed, and shot them in self-defense. Clagett said he was hit in the face, and Hunsaker claimed he was stabbed during the attack.

Prosecutors argue the soldiers conspired to kill the men and then altered the scene to fit their story. They contend Girouard stabbed Hunsaker as part of the killing plot....(more@link)


The stalkers, rapist, murderers of the Qassim Hamza family are a different group.

[me b zola]

35. I find this to be strange

In the case of Abeer and her family, soldier's confession's revealed premeditation in that case, but yet the military dragged their feet and finally charged the soldiers weeks after they had confessed to a federal investigator.

Jack Jacobs was discussing this new case on msnbc earlier today and said that it was "highly unusual" to charge soldiers with aggrivated/premeditated murder. He sounded really shocked to hear the charges.

I can't help but wonder if maybe the army is playing politics with these soldiers, 2 months before an election.

[Placebo]

15. Jesus Mary.

[classysassy]

16. Its always the enlisted

Never blame the nut that started the war,or his henchmen,aka the generals,they only follow orders,the em are rogues out of step with the CIC.

[Endangered Specie]

27. "shit flows downhill" a popular and accurate definition of

the chain of command.

[Idioteque]

17. The death penalty is fucked up.

I oppose it 100%, including in this case.

[cyberpj]

19. Kill them and they can't talk about it any more. Army looks good and

gets to shut this down.

[yardwork]

52. That's exactly what this is about

And the penalty will have a chilling effect on anyone who considers turning in other troops. This is a way to avoid any future disclosure of war atrocities. The troops who don't keep to the party line will be scapegoated, held responsible for getting their fellow troops prosecuted and possibly even executed.

This is part of the whitewashing of this illegal war. Blame "a few bad apples" and let the leaders get away free and clear, while the atrocities continue because the troops are put in an impossible situation.

This war was wrong from the get-go.

[sweetheart]

23. Death to their commanders

The crimes would not be committed for the command putting these sick men on the ground in a
sovereign capacity as supported-terrorists. Then the sick terrorist supporting commanders
need to stop the buck by putting on a noose and jumping.

No, i don't believe in the death penalty, its too humane. Bush, he would better serve his
time as a human wrecking ball, up on his chain being smacked in to brick buildings until they
fall down from the sheer force of his bushian crumpled bag of bones.

But gosh, that anything should happen to the dear leader, that our lord and saviour, asshole
and fuckup murder of a generation can't be fingered or accused, oh everyone kiss his ring and
let cheney fuck them without lubricants and the republicans will feel even.

[funkybutt]

24. Any DETAILS!?

Sorry, but i'm unfamiliar with this case. Does anyone have any details about the circumstances??

Also, examples of cases where GIs were sentenced to the death penalty would be helpful as I try to educate myself about this.

[uppityperson]

28. IF convicted. Don't forget that "IF". Updated Link/article here

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060903/ap_on_re_us/iraq_soldiers_charged

The soldiers, all from the Fort Campbell, Ky.-based 101st Airborne Division's 187th Infantry Regiment, are accused of killing three Iraqi men taken from a house May 9 on a marshy island outside Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad.

Staff Sgt. Raymond L. Girouard, Spc. William B. Hunsaker, Pfc. Corey R. Clagett and Spc. Juston R. Graber have claimed they were ordered to "kill all military age males" during the raid on the island. According to statements from some of the soldiers, they were told the target was an al-Qaida training camp.

Hunsaker told investigators that he and Clagett were attacked by the three men, who were being handcuffed, and shot them in self-defense. Clagett said he was hit in the face, and Hunsaker claimed he was stabbed during the attack.

Prosecutors argue the soldiers conspired to kill the men and then altered the scene to fit their story. They contend Girouard stabbed Hunsaker as part of the killing plot....(more@link)

[StrictlyRockers]

30. I am adamantly opposed to the death penalty. It is a logical falacy.

If I weren't adamantly opposed to the death penalty...these suckers...

oh nm

[w4rma]

31. Is whomever ordered the massacre included in this judgement?

Who ordered the massacre, anyway?

[meisje]

32. Just drop them off in Baghdad without weapons

[cigsandcoffee]

34. They should probably have a trial...

...before we go making bizarre and sadistic fantasy judgements up in our heads. IMO, anyway.

[Duke Newcombe]

36. What you said. n/t

sheesh.

[Renew Deal]

39. Why?

Drop them off with weapons. If they're so bad, they might be useful.

[Renew Deal]

38. We shouldn't be killing our own soldiers.

It's beyond ridiculous that we would kill our own soldiers. We have seen way too many die. If these guys screwed up, then throw them in jail.

[VolcanoJen]

40. Death Penalty Recommended in Iraq Raid - AP

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060902/ap_on_re_us/iraq_soldiers_charged

Excerpt:

An Army investigator has recommended that four soldiers accused of murder in a raid in Iraq should face the death penalty, according to a report obtained Saturday by The Associated Press.

Lt. Col. James P. Daniel Jr. concluded that the slayings were premeditated and warranted the death sentence based on evidence he heard at an August hearing. The case will now be forwarded to Army officials, who will decide whether Daniel's recommendation should be followed.

[mom cat]

41. This would just compound the violence.

[mp3hound]

42. I've never supported the death penalty and I won't now. eom

[elf]

43. It's just the irony of training soldiers to kill....................

...............and when they are really "trained" (or brainwashed into killer machines)think about their age!!!!.....then if they go overboard, they got killed by their own country. No word anymore about being a hero!

This all is so schizophrenic.

These guys did a horrible crime. Would they have done it without being in the army?................maybe, maybe not!:cry:

btw, I'm against capital punishment

[greccogirl]

44. They did a horrible crime? What happened

to innocent until proven guilty? We don't know what happened yet. Let's have a trial first.

[elf]

45. Do you trust in a trail.....

...in this case.....?

[Kailassa]

46. I expect they did it all right, under orders, thinking they were just

doing the job they were supposedly sent there for,
killing big bad Al Qaeda terrorists.

And now Someone much higher up the chain of command
wants them dead before they can have access to the
media and tell their side of the story.

[The Backlash Cometh]

49. wow. But you know, treason has a tough sentence too.

Are we going to have the cojones to demand it when that day comes?

[Disturbed]

50. The DP just makes it more difficult to convict these soldiers.

It seems to be a purposeful recommendation for the Military Judges to convict them to death if they are found guilty of murders.

[JI7]

51. Killing them wont do anything, put them in prison for life

if they really want some good to come out of this than they should work on preventing this type of stuff in the first place. people have to be held responsible. and i mean especially those higher in command. if they knew they could be held responsible i think they would do a lot more to avoid these horrible things in the first place.

this includes the sec of defense and the President.