Kurdish Leader Bans Iraqi Flag

[bemildred]

September 1, 2006 -- Massud Barzani, the leader of Iraq's northern autonomous Kurdish region, today issued an order not to fly the Iraqi national flag.

Barzani's office said that public offices in Kurdistan flying the Iraqi flag "should lower it and hoist only the Kurdistan flag."

RFE

[Fridays Child]

1. Can hardly blame them...

The Kurds have asserted their autonomy since long before we invaded and set up a fake Iraq government there. Why should they want to re-join the country, especially now that we've destroyed Iraq and its entire infrastructure?

[Kagemusha]

2. Because it's making enemies for the purpose of making enemies.

But hey, if that's what they wanna do...

[Fridays Child]

18. Should the Kurds make nice and join the demolition derby that is Iraq?

In any case, the idea that they're "making enemies for the purpose of making enemies" is unsupportable.

[Kagemusha]

19. That you don't think they're already part of it says enough.

No point arguing about it.

[Fridays Child]

21. To slam the door on a discussion of your remark by suggesting...

...that I'm not open to reason is needlessly offensive, and it makes me wonder whether you can even support your original statement.

Sometimes, I think we forget that this is a discussion forum for people who, although we may disagree on some specifics, are, for the most part, of like minds. (sigh)

[Kagemusha]

22. Sorry, I'm sporting black eyes from I/P "discussions".

Kurdistan doesn't strike me as an issue that people will treat with any more reasonableness but sorry for going too far in your case.

Still, just well, my point is if your starting point is that the Kurds are not part of Iraq and would need to take special action to join it, there's no point discussing the consequences of the breakup of the country, is there? If the starting point is the finish line, why race?

I'd like to say, "other Iraqis regard Iraqi Kurds as Iraqis, and therefore, their refusing to fly the Iraqi flag, officially, is an insult which accomplishes nothing but the insult for the sake of insulting; it feeds not one child," but if they're not Iraqi Kurds, but Kurd Kurds in Kurdistan who would need to join Iraq to be considered Iraqis, how the hell can I support my original statement, if we're not living in the same reality?

And that's all...

[Fridays Child]

31. I see. No, I know that they are officially Iraqi citizens but, other...

...than that I'm not well acquainted with their history or culture. I do remember reading, though, that, under Saddam, and especially after the first Gulf War, they were treated in at least a semi-autonomous manner.

Do Iraqi Kurds consider themselves to be members of a distinct nationality or ethnic group, deprived of their own turf? How do they see themselves politically, ethnically, and--given the resources in their region--economically? Are they agitating for sovereignty? It's probably not too surprising that they would want to exploit the power vacuum created by our invasion and destruction of Iraq.

Take care of those shiners! :hi:

[Kagemusha]

32. To your questions - yes, and yes. They feel their time is now.

And in a perfect world one would say they should get their own land as a deserving nation. The problem is that this requires taking land from Iraq, Turkey, and Iran, simultaneously. I don't fault them for the sentiment but, that doesn't mean their petty warlords are less petty, and it doesn't mean that needlessly thrusting their non-Iraqiness to fellow Iraqis serves anything but their pride. The Turks are the real problem. Israel never came into existence while the Ottoman Empire ran Palestine. The Ottomans had to be defeated and run out in WWI first.

[0007]

17. Because that is our oil underneath the Kurds living quarters

.....we're gonna grease 'em up like we did the Saudis.

[MADem]

3. Ah, the fighting Barzani boys!!!

That guy is the descendant of the "George Washington" of Kurdistan.

They've been showing commercials on TV (in my state, anyway) about KURDISTAN--THE "OTHER" IRAQ, in an effort to drum up business and tourism. http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-08-31-voa22.cfm

Mark my words, they are aggressively pursuing statehood. And with Iraq falling to shreds, now is their chance. They will NOT give up on this idea.

[schmuls]

5. Good for them - they've been shafted long enough!

[LynnTheDem]

14. Another one totally oblivious to the real facts.

[LynnTheDem]

15. dupe nt

[orwell]

6. And won't Turkey...

...be thrilled...

[MADem]

9. That's gonna be a challenge

The Iraqi Kurds have been REALLY helpful to us. And Turkey was our bastion with a huge standing army against the Russkie menance during the Cold War. They give us bases and overflight access. So we have two friends, in the same area, who disagree. And Turkey has the southeastern end of their country chockablock full of these Kurdish folks, who have suffered mightily under Turkish rule. And the Kurds there want to break it off like a chunk of dark chocolate.

I'm guessing we will try to parse the situation--Iraqi Kurds, do what you will, but don't incite those Turkish Kurds now (oh, and help us out getting operatives into Iran, and provide HUMINT assets for us, too, OK?). Like that's gonna stop 'em! But hey, we'll have some plausible deniability.

It's gonna get ugly up there, I fear. I hope it doesn't affect the vast majority of the region.

[Nickster]

20. Yes, and they'll send quite a few tanks to join in the parade too! n/t

[BrotherBuzz]

11. It should be noted that those commercials are the work of Sal Russo

The same Sal Russo of the 'Stop Michael Moore' campaign to discredit the film Fahrenheit 9/11, the 'Move America Forward' to discredit Cindy Sheehan, and the 'Truth Tour' to tell the good news that the old-line liberal news media won't tell you about the war in Iraq.

Sal Russo is the master of Astroturf™ grassroot campaigns and is the epitome of republican values.

http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/Content?oid=oid%3A45067

[MADem]

24. Good grief, they were so awful I honestly thought they were Kurdish-made

Very muddy pictures, a sloppy looking little girl saying something unintelligible, mushy music...really badly done, reminded me of some of the shitty Gulf State commercials, but with fewer production values!!!!

This guy has nothing to be proud of, that's for sure...

[BrotherBuzz]

27. Sal Russo is proud of his republican values....

"I got mine", and remember, the money is in the bank. I can't speak of the production qualities as I havn't seen the ads yet, but if they were as poor as you say, I wonder if they were intended to appear amateuristic on purpose. Astroturf™ is a fraud that depends and plays upon distorted perception and deception. :shrug:

[MADem]

28. Not only were they bad, they were vague. I hope the Kurds didn't

pay the fucker for them (though if they did, they probably used dough they ripped off from either the US or Saddam!).

[BrotherBuzz]

30. The Kurds paid for them but....

but you are correct, the money originated from the 8 billion dollars Rumsfeld et al. 'lost' in Iraq. Bank on it. Shades of Lincoln Group, no?

[annabanana]

4. Iraq is breaking up before our eyes. .

And STILL the corporate shills read the teleprompter'd talking points.

[YankeyMCC]

7. In no way does this indicate a civil war...nothing to see here...

please keep moving...

:sarcasm:

[gratuitous]

8. Looks like the Iraqis are standing up

Mostly to give themselves some elbow room to brawl against one another. But thank goodness it's not a civil war! And we know that because Ken Burns isn't filming a documentary and you don't hear any Stephen Foster music do you? Ergo, NOT civil war. QED.

[daleo]

10. A very short article on Radio Free Europe

Which is a U.S. government propaganda organ, as I recall.

It makes you wonder what the Bush regime's response to Kurd separatism within Iraq will be. Support it, on the assumption that a divided Iraq is more tractable for U.S. occupation, less of a threat to Israel, and a disruption for Iran? Resist it, for the sake of the territorial integrity of Turkey?

[geek tragedy]

12. I hope the Peshmerga are well-armed.

They'll need to be.

[LynnTheDem]

13. Ah yes...Barzani. Prior buddy of Saddam Hussein.

And one of 2 Kurdish leaders responsible for more Kurd deaths than Turkey, Iran, and Hussein combined.

But shhh! Facts not wanted in bushica!

[MADem]

25. He's not a "buddy"--he's a practical bastard

I found his alliance troubling too, but I understood why he did it. The old "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" rule applied.

As distateful as his strategy was, of all of the factions in Iraq, his is the best equipped, has the best infrastructure, has the tightest organization, and has the best chance of success at the end of the day. They've been screwed by the Americans six ways to Sunday, after Gulf One, by Nixon, by FDR...they're going to do what's best for themselves, first, and to hell with anyone else.

They're tough, they're insular and they look out for their own first. And they aren't sweetness and light by any stretch.

[0007]

16. Whatever happened to the flag that the US had made up for Iraq?

[MADem]

26. They sorta kinda wiped their asses on that blue and yellow

monstrosity...!!!!

[0007]

34. It was indeed a bad one!

[acmavm]

23. I really can't see them just walking away with the Kirkuk oil

fields. Nope, can't see that going over real well.

[roamer65]

29. ...and the Turkish invasion just gets closer.

[VegasWolf]

33. Simple. The Kurds don't know which flag to hang until the Civil War is

over.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Turkey won't allow it, the Shias won't allow it, the Sunis won't allow it!

Considering the problems Turkey is having with Kurdish terrorists:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2490864

More fuel for the civil war!