Holy Land churches attack Christian Zionism

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L31169813.htm

Holy Land churches attack Christian Zionism

JERUSALEM, Aug 31 (Reuters) - The Vatican's envoy in the Holy Land and bishops from three other churches have launched a rare joint attack on the Christian Zionist movement, accusing it of promoting "racial exclusivity and perpetual war".

Christian Zionists form a growing part of the pro-Israel lobby in the United States, the Jewish state's main ally. They believe the return of Jews to the Holy Land and establishment of Israel are proof of God's promises to biblical patriarchs.

...

Many Christian Zionists are evangelical Protestants, and the declaration is a sign of a growing struggle between the groups.

"The Christian Zionist programme provides a world view where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism," said the declaration, accusing Christian Zionists of hurting hopes for Middle East peace.

[Ian David]

1. For Christian "Zionists", Israel is the sacrificial lamb...

on the altar of The Apocalypse.

This is why Bush and The Republick Party are intentionally trying to foment bloodshed in the Mid-East.

See:

America's Roadmap to The Apocalypse: Bush's Plan to Immanentize The Eschaton
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2747646

[IndianaGreen]

20. Misguided Jews that think Xtian Zionists are our friends should read

the Book of Revelation and other apocalyptic literature. At the very end there is no more Israel and no more Jews. Everyone is a Christian, and those that refuse to accept Jesus are destroyed.

Some friends!

[eccles12]

21. Those "misguided Jews" as you say know exactly what they are doing.

They are USING the misguided Xtians to achieve blind support for Israel and it is working out just fine, thank you.

[MADem]

2. Now, please correct me if I am mistaken

But don't those Jews have to "convert or die" when everyone gets raptured?

So, it's a philosophy that says "Oh, we LOVE us some Jews, because they advance OUR religious ideas, but unless they convert, screw the heathens!!"

Reminds me of Hizb'Allah's great love for those Palestinians: Oh, our Sunni brothers!! We stand beside you, because YOUR asses are on the other side of the border and we share the same enemy...however, if we help to accomplish the goal of ridding greater Palestine of all the Jews, we're gonna kill all of YOU next, because you do not agree with US regarding the line of succession of the Prophet!

Bunch of assholes, all of them. They need to stop fighting in the name of GOD...she's getting pissed, I'd wager.

[liberalmuse]

3. Yep, as a former fundie, this is true.

The fundies are anxiously awaiting the day when heathens like ourselves are slaughtered by Jesus (our blood will be up to the horses bridles, or to put it in modern context, well above the SUV mudflaps). I really have a problem with the religions that have hi-jacked Judaism. I have no problem whatsoever w/Judaism, though.

[AlinPA]

4. All of this religious gobbleygook gets me totally confused. None of it

sounds even a tiny bit believable.

[MADem]

5. My imaginary man in the sky is better than YOUR imaginary man in the sky

Oh, and the ones who fight about this shit? Their imaginary omnipotent power is always a guy, for some reason!!!

[ozone_man]

17. Always a guy.

The patriarchal attitudes of monotheism are one of the biggest problems that liberals, especially women liberals, have with it. It would have been much better if they were balanced or matriarchal as religions often were. Time for civilzation to grow up past these make believe fantasies.

[sarcasmo]

6. Didn't you believe in Santa?

Sarcasm is on.

[liberalmuse]

8. Jesus is like Santa...

But he has either a blonde (Aryan or Brad Pitt Jesus) or brown (Edwardian or Orlando Bloom Jesus) beard, has a buff bod and wears robes and sandals rather than a furry red suit and boots. Jesus doesn't need reindeer or even wings to fly, and he only gives you stuff if you drop to your knees and beg/worship while saying very flattering things about him and very unflattering things about yourself. Even then, he'll give you what you want if it's his will. I guess Jesus is more like a fairy godmother, without the wings and tiara, only the fairy godmother is more likely to deliver the bling-bling. He can also be said to be like the Great Pumpkin, except he's not rotund and orange, and does not necessarily rise out of pumpkin patches. He does throw candy to kids out of those buses used for Summer Bible camp as a lure. Sorry. Boring day at work.

[AlinPA]

10. No, I was from a poor family, so there was no need "put the fear in me"

[yellowcanine]

7. The fundies already think the Vatican is the Whore of Babylon so this will

play right into that belief.

[N90ATC]

16. Zackly!

They already hate Catholics as it is. This will only add fuel to the fire. Oh well. It needed to be said.

[shrike]

24. Yeah, we're not getting raptured, you know

Catholics, Mormons, we'll all be left behind with the rest of you heathens. Think of all the fun we'll be having with the cool stereo equipment and sports cars that no longer have owners . . .

[IChing]

9. The Rapture is not an exit strategy

nor is it a plan for peace in the middle east.

[Tyler Durden]

11. Carlin said, "MY God has a bigger dick than YOUR God."

BANG.

[GeorgeGist]

12. Nice...

Holy Land. Be good now.

[brentspeak]

13. Rapture theology barely existed until the late 19th century

The Christians who live in Israel and the surrounding countries have the closest possible link to the kind of theology practiced by the original Christians. It's understood among the Holy Land Christians (as well as many other Christians) that the Bible is to be understood in symbolic terms, not literal terms. That's why they're especially annoyed with the fundamentalists/Christian Zionists.

[Julius Civitatus]

14. Exactly! It's not even in the Bible

The so-called "Rapture" is NOT really in the Bible, nor in the words or Jesus. There's a very vague verse in Thessalonians (A letter between early congregations) that reads:

Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not preceed them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In the 19th century, some strange fundie preacher named John Nelson Darby took that verse and ran with it. Apparently he had some bizarre visions and fevered dreams about the Apocalypse, and he defined this as The Rapture.

The Rapturist movement took hold among American Christian fundamentalists in the last few decades of the 20th century, thanks to fantasy novels and fundamentalist adoption of these fantasies as "truth." It's called Christian eschatology.

Most Christian denominations (Catholic, Orthodox, most Protestant churches) do not agree that there will be a pre-tribulation Rapture of the Church point out that it is a relatively new doctrine.

American rapturists have a tradition of predicting "with all certainty" the date of their so awaited Rapture, only to keep missing, over and over again. Here's a list of some of the dates the fundies believed were going to bring the end of the world:

Some notable predictions include these (from Wikipedia):

1988 - Publication of 88 Reasons why the Rapture is in 1988, by Edgar C. Whisenant.
1989 - Publication of The final shout: Rapture report 1989, by Edgar Whisenant. More predictions by this author appeared for 1992, 1995, and other years.
1992 - Korean group "Mission for the Coming Days " predicted October 28, 1992 as the date for the rapture.
1993 - Seven years before the year 2000. The Rapture would have to start to allow for seven years of the Tribulation before the Return in 2000. Multiple predictions.
1994 - Pastor John Hinkle of Christ Church in Los Angeles predicted June 9, 1994.
1997 - Stan Johnson of the Prophecy Club predicted September 12, 1997.
1998 - Marilyn Agee, in The End of the Age, predicted May 31, 1998.
2000 - Many "millennial" predictions.



Obviously, none of these predictions have come to pass.

For more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

[brentspeak]

15. Good summary, Julius.

[Matilda]

18. What gets me about these guys

is that even when their predictions prove totally false, they keep right on making more.

Nothing stops them, certainly not reality.

[mitchum]

19. That's because there's a sucker born again every minute

[PhilYerHead]

22. For What it's Worth...

There is an old Celtic ritual called Imbolc celebrated halfway between the Winter Solstice and the First Day of Spring (falling generally on February 2 - Groundhog Day), whereby followers called for the hurrying of Spring. Planting flowers and lighting fires mark this Groundhog tradition, which is still kept in this country today, and is an abomination to those Christians who know it.
Sorry, Punxatawny Phil.

The Fundies, who are are not true Christians, who look for the Rapture to end it all in a blaze of glory, work towards Armageddon to bring it on.
They, like the Pagans they claim to be opposite of, are also trying to "Force the Spring."

If you think Bush is more than stupid, that he and EndTimes Fundies are evil, you'd be right.

Phil

MORE: http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/festivals/imbolc.shtml
Imbolc is also a German acronym for Internationale magische Bildungsstätte für okkulte Lebenskunst und Credo.

[yellowcanine]

23. Gawd-duh says Punxsutawney Phil is the Whore of Babylon!