States face new driver's license requirements

[Judi Lynn]

States face new driver's license requirements
By The Associated Press
Thursday, August 31, 2006
(08-31) 10:22 PDT , (AP) --

Some of the common requirements that all state driver's licenses and identification cards must share under the 2005 Real ID Act (The Department of Homeland Security expects to release full details of such requirements by year's end.):

_ Identity cards must contain a person's full legal name, date of birth, gender, identity card number, digital photograph, legal residence, signature and security features designed to prevent tampering.

_ To issue identity cards, states must require documentation showing a person's date of birth, proof of a valid Social Security number and documentation of a person's name and residence.

_ States cannot issue an identity card to a person from another state without proof the person has terminated the other state's identity card.

_ States must verify the accuracy of applicants' Social Security numbers and other required documents.
(snip/...)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/08/31/state/n102248D94.DTL&type=politics

[ThomCat]

1. So many fewer people will have Drivers Licenses or

Non Drivers IDs.

But they're bringing back ID requirements to vote. So if you don't get a DMV ID then you are disenfranchised.

Why aren't civil rights organizations up in arms screaming about this.?

[MADem]

2. Virginia mails voter registration cards to registered voters

*Once you have submitted your registration form, you should receive a voter registration card in the mail. If you do not receive one, contact your local Registrar's Office to make sure that your application has been processed.

http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/Voter_Information/Registering_to_Vote/Index.html

[ThomCat]

4. That doesn't help you if you are required to show valid

photo-ID in order to vote.

[MADem]

10. But you aren't. Your voter card is all you need (no photo).

And you, and only you, have the card, because it was sent to YOUR address. If you don't HAVE your card, you CAN use your SSAN card (no photo)or photo ID to vote, OR you can sign an affadavit, but you do not need these documents IF you have the voter card that was sent to you after you registered:

Do I Have to Show Identification at the Polls?
All Virginia voters are be required to show some form of identification when they go to the polls to vote. You can use your voter registration card; Virginia driver's license; social security card; any identification card issued by a federal, state or local government agency; or any employer identification card with a photograph.

If you forget to bring your identification to the polls, don't worry, you'll still be permitted to vote! You just need to sign at statement affirming your identity. Exception: If you registered to vote by mail after January 1, 2003, did not include a copy of your ID with your application, and do not bring proper ID to the polls, you cannot sign the affirmation statement but will be offered a provisional ballot.

http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/VoterRegistration/VoterRegistrationRegistertoVote.aspx



Missouri has a problem, and the ACLU is on it: http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1688&Itemid=113

[krispos42]

3. I only have a problem with the 2nd one

_ To issue identity cards, states must require documentation showing a person's date of birth, proof of a valid Social Security number and documentation of a person's name and residence.

If you just moved, how the hell do you do that?

Unless you had time to get your new utility bill, I guess. But I share a house. The only utility in my name is my cell phone, and in some places that does not counts as a utility bill.

I guess maybe you could use your pay stub after you got it changed. Assuming you have a job, of course.

The other stuff is already on driver's licences, and I have no problem with verification.

When i got my driver's licence in South Dakota, they took my old out-of-state one, and this was before 9/11. They had a licence printer right there in the applicaiton office. When I got my Minnesota licence, they clipped my SD licence and gave me a certified form saying I had applied for a MN licence. My licence arrived in the mail a couple of weeks later, and then I could toss my old SD one.

[BadgerKid]

7. Proving address

Rental agreement? Mortgage?

[Gormy Cuss]

19. Not everyone is named on a rental agreement or mortgage, or deed.

Two categories come to mind: the homeless and adult members of multigenerational households. If you live in your parents' or kids' house there is none of the above documentation available to prove where you live. You may have other records such as credit card statements or voter registration records to back up your claim but if the law does not recognize these as proof of residence you would be out of luck.

If you are effectively homeless, say crashing with various relatives and friends, you may not even have bills or the like to prove where you live.

[BadgerKid]

25. Thanks for clarifying. n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

32. I just used current utility bills. n/t

[Coyote_Bandit]

9. And what of those

of us who can legally claim residence in more than one state.

It is an issue that is not limited to senior citizens. It is something I have done for a couple of decades now. But I'm not sure I can document residence in either state. No pay stub. No utilities.

And wat of the homeless. I guess they really don't count anymore do they?

[MADem]

12. Do you live under a bridge? No bank account? Do you pay taxes?

Own a car? Pay insurance?

Can't someone go with you to the notary, and fill out a form saying Coyote Bandit lives at 123 Main Street, I attest this under penalty of perjury? And surely, you can do the same thing yourself?

Do you get no mail? NOTHING? No pension?

[Coyote_Bandit]

13. Well, Let's see

Professionally licensed in two states. Comply with licensing requirements and pay professional dues in each state.

Share place of residence in two states - neither of which have utilities in my name.

Have bank account in two states. Use checks with different addresses in different states printed on them.

Have safe deposit boxes in two states.

Receive mail in two states.

Spend enough time in each state to be a legal resident.

A sometime self-employed professional (clients in both states). No pay stub. Too young for Social Security. No pension. Just another long-term unemployed person being left behind.

File tax returns in two states.

Registered to vote in two states - though I vote in only one state (and always the same one).

I only have one driver's license - I have had it for many, many years. This is what I consider my place of residence.

Car is tagged in a different state from the state that issues my drivers license and the car tag is registered to the out of state address shown on my driver's license (required by state law in order to collect taxes from those of us who do not commute daily). The car is titled in one state with the registration address for the car tag in another state. It is required to be insured in the state in which it is tagged. I have no intention of residing permantently in the state where my car is tagged. Someday I hope to moon the city limit sign on my final trip out of town (hey, I can dream can't I?).

So where exactly do I live? And how do I prove it?

This kind of thing really isn't uncommon among the senior citizen snowbirds.

[MADem]

15. Where do you get your bank statements?

Where does the IRS send you that little card to say 'file online' or your tax forms?

What is the address on your driver's license? If it doesn't match where you are living, you could be in the hurt locker if you get stopped. If it does, that's where you live.

Slightly illuminative--Residence rules for Census 00: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_68166.htm

If you move around a lot, your residence is where you say it is--a state of mind.

I lived outside MA for DECADES, but always paid taxes to the state, even from overseas. It's always been my home. Now, I get a nice payback for my fidelity--my gov't pension income is MA-tax free.

[Coyote_Bandit]

18. Ummmm

I have banking relationships in two states and get bank statements at an address in each state.

I use a tax prep program and have not received tax forms in the mail since I started doing so. I show both addresses on my tax return.

I did, unfortunately, get stopped earlier this year. The patrolman did not question that I held a drivers license from state A and was driving a car registered in my name and tagged in state B and which according to the registration papers was registered to the same address shown on my drivers license.

The point is that I actually maintain enough contacts to be considered a legal resident of each of these two states. The residence rules of the Census that you refer to look at where one spends the most time. Are you suggesting that I will need to document exactly how many days I spend in each state in order to show residence for purposes of getting a drivers license? Surely not. And if so, do you really think they will accept scribbled notes on a calendar as proof of residence? While my two places of residence are in different states they are separated by a distance of less than 100 miles.

It is possible to simultaneously be a legal resident of more than one state. There is some rather significant tax law that demonstrates that. One of the more famous cases involved multiple state estate tax claims on a single decedent's estate. The claims of each state were upheld on the basis that the decedent was indeed a resident of multiple states at the time of death. I consider myself a resident of the state which issues my driver's license although I am legally a resident of both states. Whoever is drafting these rules would do well to consider the legal distinction of the concept of domicile. It is a concept which looks at intent and choice in addition to the significant contacts which typically define residence. I am a legal resident of two states and yet I am domiciled in only one. Nonetheless, if I had money and died tomorrow both states would lay claim to their piece of my estate.

[MADem]

23. As you say, intent and choice, as I say, state of mind. Same diff.

Up until recently, I spent six months in one state, six in another. I've always maintained MA as my home of record, residence and domicile, though.

[MADem]

11. Your old license does indeed have most of that information

I live in MA, I don't have a SSAN on my license by choice, but they have it on file.

The question is, will the states rely on each other as they do now?

The only issue is residence--a utility bill in your name should do--that
is what they use at many DMV/RMV offices now. Absent that, a rental agreement,
a mortgage, or any postmarked mail.

Plenty of kids don't pay utility bills, their parents do, and they still have licenses.

Last resort would be an affadavit from someone saying you live where you say you live...

[alfredo]

5. What documents will they accept as valid documents to

prove your date of birth? will we have to pay for a copy of our birth certificate? That has been privatized here and they charge for each document. Will they accept a copy?

[BadgerKid]

8. .

Yes, I suppose you might have to pay for a certified photocopy from the county clerk / county recorder. Probably can do it through the mail with a check or money order.

[alfredo]

16. Ours has been privatized and outsourced to India.

[HockeyMom]

24. Married Women

My birth certificate has my maiden name. I guess married women will have to supply their marriage licenses too?

[AnneD]

6. This is a back door way to introduce a national id card...

Here in Texas it will jack the price up from the current $24 to $100-120. I think this crap needs to be repealed ASAP. Boy the shit is going to hit the fan when this goes into effect in '11. Hope the DEM's repeal this nonsense.

[OKthatsIT]

20. YOUR PAPERS PLEAZE...it is RFID...don't be stupid.

CALL YOUR GOVENOR..just say, "HELL NO!"

(your govenor will be relieved by this..the costs to impliment the program are outrageous.)

[dragonlady]

26. You do know who rammed this through? Hint: Sensenbrenner

He is very, very proud of this scheme to keep us all safe from terrorists (and immigrants?). And what good will it really do? DMV workers have already been selling official licenses under the table in more than one state. No need to go through the bother of getting birth certificates, etc. Or maybe the would-be terrorist would have his own valid license. It boggles the mind. Maybe this is where the inspiration for my sig line came from.

[alarimer]

28. Is that the cost to renew as well??

Even if it is for a brand new license, it is still fucking outrageous. People have to have driver's licenses in order to drive to their jobs but if you make $5 a hour, you can't afford that. Someone needs to sue to stop those fees at least. Goddamn I hate our federal government and its bullshit requirements. I'll bet there will be a lot of unlicensed drivers from now on. If I didn't need one, I sure as fuck wouldn't pay that much.

[AnneD]

29. I can't wait for the fallout from this...

If you think Joe 6 pack sqwaked about gas prices...wait til this hits the fan. This is just really too much. We will end up having more unlicesed, uninsured drivers on the road and you insurance rates will shoot through the roof.
I just saw a drivers manual from 1940. It cost 50 cents for a 2 year drivers license. And back then, we were so to fight REAL Nazis and terrorist.:eyes:

[caledesi]

14. proof of a valid Social Security number ?

Well on the bottom of my SS card, it clearly states NOT TO BE USED FOR IDENTIFATION. WTF?

[Raine]

17. Yeah, really...

I'm sick to death of my SS card being asked for as if it was ID. They even wanted the number when I got a Costco membership, I refused to give it to them. x(

[lse7581011]

21. Don't Have Original Card

been using the same SSN for years - what do I do?

[caledesi]

33. Replacement card. Go here. PDF File.

www.justice.gov/ust/r18/e_id2.pdf

Good luck!

[MissB]

22. I refuse to give it out.

And I'm always quite clear about telling them why.

[sidpleasant]

27. The card has to be electronically readable remotely too

Thanks to lard ass Sensenbrenner's fanatic insistence the Real ID Act was attached to a "must pass" supplemental funding bill for troops in Iraq. As if it wasn't bad enough that America now joins such models of liberty as the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany as a nation whose citizens will have to carry a mandatory ID card, the Act is riddled with other flaws. By May 2008 state motor vehicle departments are required to contact the issuers of birth certificates, mortgage statements, utility bills, Social Security cards, and immigration papers before granting a driver's license. States will also have to keep copies of those documents for seven years. If you think the lines at the DMV are long now just wait until 2008. Even worse, the Act requires that the information on the cards must be available in a "common machine-readable technology." This is a huge gift to the companies that compile databases on consumers. It won't be long before businesses start demanding your national ID card and reading its information before doing any transaction with you. "Your papers please!" Since the Ministry of Homeland Security has indicated that it wants the national ID cards to use RFID technology the cards will be readable while they're still in your wallet or purse. Thanks to the Republicans in Congress it will soon be so much easier for government and private industry to track the whereabouts of citizens.

The best way to stop this thing might be to enlist the religious right. I suggested to my Republican, devout fundamentalist Christian aunt that the Sensenbrenner ID card will be the "mark of the beast" prophesized in The Book of Revelations. Hey, Revelations does say "no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Since the Real ID act received little coverage in the media (and Hastert and Frist allowed no debate) she hadn't heard about it and was truly disturbed by the news. I'm hoping that I've lit a little spark in the dry tinder that is Bush's base.

It's simply amazing that the Republican Party, allegedly the party of conservatism and getting - the - government - off - the - backs - of - the - people, were the ones who rammed through this fascist law that will change the nature of America. I guess they hate us for our freedoms. Thanks a bunch, GOP!

[FreeStateDemocrat]

30. Sounds like another $100 "fee" and total chaos with an agency that

is already a bureaucratic nightmare. There is no way the MVA in my state could deal with the complexity of this law without a total meltdown.

[leftyladyfrommo]

31. I just renewed my license here in Kansas City

I took my birth certificate and a couple of current utility bills (for proof of address).

Cost me $20 and was renewed to 2012.

Really, it wasn't bad.

[fshrink]

34. Let's all get an implant and get over with it.

[treestar]

35. The feds have no right to require the states to use their

social security number.

Maybe nobody will bother to protest, but this must violate the issues of state versus federal powers.

The police power remains with the states.