Turkish F-16s bomb N. Iraq

[tocqueville]

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Monday, August 28, 2006
ANKARA — Turkey has begun bombing Kurdish strongholds in Iraq.

Turkish F-16 multi-role fighters attacked Kurdish Workers Party positions in northern Iraq last week. Turkish military sources said the bombing raids took place in the Kandil mountains along the Iraqi-Turkish border.

"The aim of the air strikes is to stop the flow of terrorists into Turkey," a source said.


It was the first time since 2002 that Ankara sent fighter-jets on bombing missions inside Iraq. The attacks came after more than a year of warnings that Turkey would not tolerate the PKK presence in Iraq.

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/06/front2453976.1069444446.html

confirmed here :

http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=139164

[mike_c]

1. this is almost funny....

Turkey is bombing American occupied Iraq to stop the flow of terrorists....

[Jacobin]

30. I know what you mean

Black humor and irony is all we have these days. But we do have lots of that.

:-(

[IntiRaymi]

47. ...Using american made F-16's

Oh, the irony!

[Supersedeas]

52. Defense Contractors love this kind of irony

[daleo]

2. This will anger Bush and Rummy

They hate it when other people bomb Iraqis.

[Joe for Clark]

3. Thats a NATO country - and they really don't like the Kurds.

I think - honestly, the Kurds are the only "reasonably" normal people in Iraq - from our perspective.

You see, the most dangerous thing Mr B*sh ever did was destabilize this region, worse than even the war. You can't go into this "glass house" and start throwing rocks without expecting an effect.

He screwed the pooch here - he really did.

Joe

[leQ]

35. couldn't have said it better myself. (eom)

[roamer65]

4. Turkey will invade northern Iraq

Turkey will not tolerate an independent Kurdistan and many Turks would see the invasion as regaining a lost part of the Ottoman Empire. This should get interesting since Turkey is a member of NATO.

[John Gauger]

5. There is a reason Turkey does not control all of Kurdistan.

The Kurds are seen as a very dangerous people. That's why Churchill plopped the border right through the heart of Kurdistan. He was afraid of them gaining self-determination, because once they are united they become a force to be reckoned with. Churchill knew that that would endanger Britain's hold on the region's oil. I don't think Turkey will take over Kurdistan because it would put all Kurds in the same boat, with nothing seperating them.

[Flabbergasted]

7. And the alternative is doing nothing....? Hard choice....?

[leveymg]

12. A more difficult choice than BushCo is able to make

even if it were willing and ready to make serious choices.

When will the Joint Chiefs just come out and tell Bush-Cheney that it's time to leave town? Will it be before or after the outbreak of a regional war that the U.S. is unable to control and ends up losing everything we inherited in the Middle East in 1945?

[0007]

21. Perhaps it is time to re-install Saddam Hussein - junior can't control

his three Ring Circus..... How fucking stupid can America get not to see this coming down the pike.

[eccles12]

22. Yet Saddam is on trial right now for trying to control the Kurds who were

trying to overthrow his government. And, almost as many Kurds were killed by other Kurds as Saddam killed and some of the deaths from interfighting were blamed on Saddams regime. And also, Saddam was at war with Iran, a nation that we now claim to be the major sponsor of terrorism. We aided Saddam in his fight against Iran and then blamed him for "gassing his own people" although much of the gassing came from the Iranians. And "his own people" were the mostly the Kurds in northern Iraq who were trying to overthrow his government. Now all these people who Saddam was fighting, including not giving Al-qaeda the time of day, are now our worst enemies and we now call them terrorists except for the Kurds who are so divided that we can't tell which group to favor. Their attacks against Turkey will present the US with yet another opportunity to make a bad decision.

[coalition_unwilling]

8. Can you say August, 1914?

[leveymg]

6. So, will we declare another "no-fly zone"? U.S. F-16s vs Turkish F-16s?

Anyone want to take bets on how that one turns out?

This is turning into the Balkans in 1913.

[Supersedeas]

51. the special envoy has something special alright

[MikeyJones]

9. I knew the Turks would eventually get involved

It was only a matter of time.

[harun]

19. Surprising it took this long actually (n/t)

[sofa king]

24. Welcome to DU, harun!

Your post and your avatar suggest you know a lot more about the situation than I do. A question: would Turkey risk losing its NATO membership over this?

[MikeyJones]

53. tell me about it

You'd think they would've set up their own "buffer zone" in the North to keep Peshmerga supply lines from re-suppling their Kurdish counterparts across the border in Turkey.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. If true, the Kurds in Turkey will love that.

All 12,000,000 of them.

[greenman3610]

11. You mean,....PreEmptive war?

but that's against international....oh, right...

[tocqueville]

13. there is obviously a link to the recent "turist" bombings in Turkey

ISTANBUL (AFP) - An explosion ripped through Turkey's southern resort of Antalya, killing at least three people and wounding 20 others in a blast that ignited a blaze and shattered glass across the Mediterranean town's busiest street.
..............

The Kurdish rebel group Kurdistan Freedom Falcons (TAK) on Monday claimed responsibility for those blasts. The group has claimed previous similar attacks that have targeted tourist destinations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060828/ts_afp/turkeyblast_060828183452

[Igel]

14. Indeed. n/t

[Igel]

15. It will be of interest to note Pakistan's reaction.

Relatively parallel situations. Nearly ridiculously so.

Will Pakistan side with the Kurds, or with Turkey?

Or will they just hope nobody notices their embarrassed silence?

[enigma000]

32. Why Pakistan? How are they involved? n/t

[Igel]

40. Because of the parallels. Not perfect parallels, but close enough.

Turkey has a large Kurdish population that's used anti-government/anti-civilian violence to advance their goals. Part is to unite Turkish-held Kurdish territory with the Kurds across the border. To this end, they're using Kurdish territory in Iraq as a base of operations for cross-border attacks.

Iraq has a mix of ethnicities that appear to each be supreme in the country; Islamists have a large say in how things are run, but they don't quite control the central government. They do have no-go zones for the Iraq central government. The government is simply unable to exert authority in the Kurdish areas; there, the ethnic militia and ethnic government holds sway, and the "Iraqi forces" stay clear. To intrude would be a problem. The Iraqis are ticklish about sovereignty, however, and wouldn't like an incursion to clear them out, I would think.

Afghanistan has a large Pakhtun population that's used anti-government/anti-civilian violence to advance their goals. Part of their goals is to unite Afghan-held Pakhtun territory with the Pakhtuns across the border. A larger goal is to make Afghan the Pakhtun state that their tribal views says it should be; their recension of Islam is part of their views. To this end, they're using Pakhtun territory in Pakistan as a base of operations for cross-border attacks.

Pakistan has a mix of ethnicities that appear to each be supreme in the country; Islamists have a large say in how things are run, but they don't control the central government. They do have no-go zones for the Pakistan central government. The Pakistanis are ticklish about sovereignty, however. The government is simply unable to exert authority in the Pakhtun areas; there, the ethnic militia and ethnic government holds sway, and the "Pakistan forces" stay clear. To intrude would be a problem.

In the case of Pakistan, they deny that Pakhtuns stage cross-border raids, fully exercising the truthiness portions of their brains. In the case of Iraq, the Kurds are less obtuse, and the Shi'ites might find it pleasing to think of the Kurds being taken down a notch. In either case, there's a legitimate case for staging a cross-border strike against Kurds/Pakhtuns.

If Pakistan says Turkey is in its rights, it means that they're de facto backing the idea of US/NATO/Afghan cross-border attacks against Taliban targets in the NWFP of Pakistan. If Pakistan backs the Kurds, there's a whole case of canned worms to explore. But that would be explored elsewhere, this post is too long.

[tocqueville]

55. very good analysis IMHO nt

[coalition_unwilling]

37. Not to mention Iran's reaction, which has a significant

Kurdish minority.

[bemildred]

43. Iran is already shelling Kurdish areas of Iraq. nt

[coalition_unwilling]

44. Bringing back the Ottoman Empire is starting to seem not so bad

an idea.

[bemildred]

45. LOL. Yeah.

Or the Caliphate, or Tamur the Lame. Somebody with a sense of order.

[happyslug]

46. Hell with the Iranians what will the Greeks do?

There have been reports that the Greeks have been supply weapons and money to the Kurds fighting the Turks for decades. The arrest of the one Anti-turkish leader in about 2001, appears to have been the Result of the Greeks agreeing to drop their support for the Kurds in exchange for Turkish permitting Cyprus to re-unite. THe later has NOT happened and the Greeks may be applying pressure on the Turks via the Kurds on the Cyprus issue.

Yes, Iraq is turning into a HUGE mess, going way beyond the borders of Iraq. How long will the Shiites continue to support the US in Iraq? The support is luke warm as it is, but if the US attacks Iran, what Support the US has from the Shiites in Iraq will disappear. THis may NOT end in Iraq, the Shiites are the MAjority in most of the Persian Gulf states, they may revolt in support of Iran. Furthermore the oil fields of Saudi Arabia is in predominately Shiite part of Arabia, thus the Saudi's oil production can be cut off.

How will this play out? Only the Devil knows (And he is on all sides in this conflict).

[coalition_unwilling]

48. The U.S. military is simply one militia among many in Iraq. Were

we to attack Iran, we'd be looking at a potential POW figure of 130,000+. As much as I do not want to see that happen, maybe that is what it will take for the US population to rise up finally and throw out the BFEE.

[PurityOfEssence]

16. "Terrorists": the ultimate blank check

Anyone who resists your worldview is one.

Obviously, the reckless reactionary thugs who run our executive branch right now have opened the floodgate of excuses by demanding to be unquestioned. What's going on with the Kurds affects Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria because of their Kurdish populations; to ignore the Kurds is stupid.

We are the proverbial bull in the china shop. Worse, we've launched and refined the rhetoric of justification, and for this we will pay: others will use the same excuses.

[bobthedrummer]

17. As a sidebar: Eric S. Edelman former Ambassador to Turkey

Cheney's national security advisor and pals with Bush senior, Wolfowitz, Ledeen, Khalilzad, Libby and others has been mentioned to head the DoD Policy Office.

Here's the profile of BFEE's former Ambassador to Turkey (his stint there was a disaster) and a possible new Rumsfeld DoD Policy Office chief-Mr. Eric S. Edelman (from Right Web).
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1143

edited for clarification about DoD Policy Office

[RCinBrooklyn]

18. How exciting. The Kurds were the only ones cooperating with the U.S. n/t

[bvar22]

20. As the "Occupying Military Force" in Iraq,

The Turkish bombing of Iraq is an Act of War against the US. I wonder if Tutkey was acting as a US "Proxy" like Israel attacking Lebanon?

Sure looks like someone wants to destabilize (even more)the Middle East, and spread The Republican's War to other countries BEFORE the November elections.

[cascadiance]

23. If we PO Turkey enough, they might side up with Russia...

I'm sure that the Russians would love having more unchecked access to the warm water ports in the Mediterranean if they're given free passage through the Dardanelles.

Some here may want to blame Turkey for the Turkish/Kurdish conflict, but I think it's really hard to point to one party and make them out to be innocent. Turkey might have a history of opressing the Kurdish minority in their country, but the Kurds have also been opressing the Turkomens and other smaller religious sects in Northern Iraq too, and have been trying to kick many of them out of towns like Mosul and Kirkuk to try and claim majority control over those areas to get control of the oil fields up there. It's not a simple black and white situation.

The problem is that we've made it worse, by providing countries with a wider range of options as excuses for attacking other countries or groups of peoples like the Kurds (and the Lebanese/Hezbollah by the Israelis, etc.)

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. Looks like the US hasn't noticed that part

It seems they don't really care if Turkey attacks the Kurds, since they have basically ignored what's been happening their for the last few weeks.

They're more concerned that the Iranians might be helping Hezbollah, yet when Iran launches rocket attacks into Northern Iraq, they've been turning a blind eye. Now our 'ally' Turkey conducts a bombing mission and that's okay too.

[screembloodymurder]

42. If we don't condemn the bombing,

then we condone it. Or, should I say encourage it?

[pinniped]

25. Hey, we're in Iraq to avenge the poor Kurds....

and to fleece their oil reserves.

Why is our ally Turkey bombing our Kurdish pals?

[rman]

26. Turkey's buddy Iran not longer at the party?

The both of them were attacking Kurds in Iraq just the other week or so.

[Massachusetts]

28. "The aim of the air strikes "

What is the REAL aim.....bye bye Kurds.


"So we can be pretty confident that one way or another the US is trying to ensure that Iraq will re-enter to the international system under US control. Now, how do you achieve this? Well, one plan, and this plan has been discussed in Turkey as you know, is for the US to use Turkey as a mercenary military force to conquer Northern Iraq with ground troops while the US bombs from 20,000 feet, The compensation for Turkey could be that it will get control of the oil resources of Musul and Kerkuk, which it has always regarded as part of Turkey. And for the US, that will block its enemies -- Russia, France and others -- from having privileged access to the oil of that region. Meanwhile the US will take over the South in some fashion".

Noam Chomsky Addressing the Kurds in Amed
March 31, 2002

[Alameda]

39. Kurdish rebels warn of "hell" after Turkey bombings

Although Mr. Chomsky is quite knowledgeable, he is not always correct. It's difficult to keep up with all the goings on in the world. There are many misconceptions regarding Turkey.

Turkey is not at war with Kurds, who have full Turkish citizenship. They do have problems with Kurdish separatist groups such as the PKK and TAK. These groups want to divide Turkey. It is interesting to note they want the headwaters of the Tigress and Euphrates rivers and lake Van included in "Kurdistan".

These groups have been responsible for thousands of lost lives in the last 20+ years.

I suggest a Google image search on "Kurdistan" and see the various borders. Turkey is concerned about their national border integrity.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L29922136.htm

"We vow to turn the monstrous TC (Turkish Republic) into hell ... with our warriors who have pledged revenge," TAK said in a statement on its Web site. It was not immediately possible to verify its authenticity.

TAK and the larger outlawed hardline separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) oppose Ankara's policies on the Kurdish region. The PKK, which TAK says it broke with 18 months ago, took up arms in 1984 with the aim of creating a homeland in Turkey's mainly Kurdish southeast.

[enigma000]

29. Does Turkey have a right to exist?

Should we disarm them and relocate them?

I guess not.

[yellowcanine]

31. OK. Here we go. Turkey turns the Bush premption doctrine on its head.

Turkey is a NATO ally. It is essentially doing the same thing that Bush allowed Israel to do in Lebanon. Now what?

[LeftHander]

33. Bush's Pre-emptive Lunacy in action....nt

[Javaman]

34. "The aim of the air strikes is to stop the flow of terrorists into Turkey"

Riiiiiiight. Sure, Turkey, just keep going with that.

[PATRICK]

36. So Bush sent a NATO Air Force general

as an envoy. To help them with peace negotiations?

[CollegeDUer]

38. Turkey pulling an Israel

Is it WW3 yet?

[screembloodymurder]

41. We're going to have to split the country into three parts.

That way everybody has somebody to hate.

[HuffleClaw]

49. lets watch bush try and condemn this one

"The aim of the air strikes is to stop the flow of terrorists into Turkey,"

[Supersedeas]

50. see how useful the Terrorist 'label' can be-Dimson should have copyrighted

[bronxiteforever]

54. and where is the MSM on this huge deveolpment?

covering crazy Karr (sigh)

[Odin2005]

56. Grrr. The Turks are copying Israel now.

Time to kick thier sorry asses out of NATO if they keep this shit up.