Ahmadinejad Claims Holocaust Invented to Embarass Germany

[sabra]

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2149241,00.html

Ahmadinejad Claims Holocaust Invented to Embarass Germany

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has told German Chancellor Angela Merkel that the Holocaust may have been invented by the victorious Allied powers in World War II to embarrass Germany.

The remarks by the outspoken Iranian president, who has repeatedly questioned the veracity of the Holocaust, came in a letter sent to Merkel in July whose contents have not been disclosed until now, according to the news agency Mehr as reported by AFP.

"Is it not a reasonable possibility that some countries that had won the war made up this excuse to constantly embarrass the defeated people ... to bar their progress," Ahmadinejad said in the letter.

...

"By promoting the necessity of settlement of Holocaust survivors in the occupied Palestine, they have created a constant threat in the Middle East," he said, referring to Israel.

[bluestateguy]

1. #&*%@#!!!!!!!

:grr:

[Henny Penny]

30. Sounds like the Zinoviev letter to me...

"Is Iran's President Really a Jew-hating, Holocaust-denying Islamo-fascist who has threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"?

In this frightening mess in the Middle East, let's get one thing straight. Iran is not threatening Israel with destruction. Iran's president has not threatened any action against Israel. Over and over, we hear that Iran is clearly "committed to annihilating Israel" because the "mad" or "reckless" or "hard-line" President Ahmadinejad has repeatedly threatened to destroy Israel But every supposed quote, every supposed instance of his doing so, is wrong.

The most infamous quote, "Israel must be wiped off the map", is the most glaringly wrong. In his October 2005 speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad never used the word "map" or the term "wiped off". According to Farsi-language experts like Juan Cole and even right-wing services like MEMRI, what he actually said was "this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

What did he mean? In this speech to an annual anti-Zionist conference, Mr. Ahmadinejad was being prophetic, not threatening. He was citing Imam Khomeini, who said this line in the 1980s (a period when Israel was actually selling arms to Iran, so apparently it was not viewed as so ghastly then). Mr. Ahmadinejad had just reminded his audience that the Shah's regime, the Soviet Union, and Saddam Hussein had all seemed enormously powerful and immovable, yet the first two had vanished almost beyond recall and the third now languished in prison. So, too, the "occupying regime" in Jerusalem would someday be gone. His message was, in essence, "This too shall pass."

But what about his other "threats" against Israel? The blathersphere made great hay from his supposed comment later in the same speech, "There is no doubt: the new wave of assaults in Palestine will erase the stigma in countenance of the Islamic world." "Stigma" was interpreted as "Israel" and "wave of assaults" was ominous. But what he actually said was, "I have no doubt that the new movement taking place in our dear Palestine is a wave of morality which is spanning the entire Islamic world and which will soon remove this stain of disgrace from the Islamic world." "Wave of morality" is not "wave of assaults." The preceding sentence had made clear that the "stain of disgrace" was the Muslim world's failure to eliminate the "occupying regime".

*************

more at http://www.counterpunch.com/



NB Think before you nuke!

[Zynx]

65. The intent is very clear.

Israel is always refered to as "the occupier", the "Zionist Regime", etc... You are talking about a country that does not even recognize that Israel is a nation.

[PsychoDad]

114. Thank you for an interjection of fact.

Into this circus of hate. A dance toward war and death to a tune played for us by our media. A media beholding to corporate interests shared by the BFEE.

"Is Iran's President Really a Jew-hating, Holocaust-denying Islamo-fascist who has threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"?

Sure he is, we've been told so by our trustworthy media experts, and we know they would never lie to us.....

[no_hypocrisy]

2. What kind of s**t is this guy smoking?! n/t

[zreosumgame]

3. LOL this guy is funny

either he is Iran's dumbaya or he really just likes to see people with their panties in a wad. Oh, wait, is there a difference?

[DavidDvorkin]

4. Time for some posts insisting he didn't really say that

and that it's a mistranslation and quite possibly a deliberate one.

[Mike Daniels]

6. Yep, the pres. of Iran hates Bush so this must be an orchestrated smear

by none other than that all powerful, all mighty Karl Rove.

[geek tragedy]

9. Yet another brave critic of Israel falsely smeared

as an anti-Semite.

:sarcasm:

[manic expression]

102. Yet another person

trying to convince themselves that Israel is actually the victim instead of the bully.

[zreosumgame]

43. must be one of those 'known unknowns'

or maybe he is the other half of dumbaya's brains.

[Renew Deal]

18. And of course, Chavez did nothing wrong.

;)

[zreosumgame]

46. did he?

yes, DAMM HIM for not letting the CIA led coup depose him and turn their country into another colony! BAH, BAH I say! How DARE those lower people think they can run their own democracy!

[geek tragedy]

5. Okay, anyone stating that this motherfucker

is an okay guy is not a progressive, and is instead either a Nazi or a fucking idiot.

No exceptions.

[bluestateguy]

41. Indeed

Since when was Bush the only lunatic, racist asshole in the world?

This guy is an asshole, pure and simple, and saying it does not make me a Bushbot.

[digno dave]

84. here it does nt

nt

[w4rma]

80. He's not an okay guy. And folks like him wouldn't be in power without the

Iraq invasion. He rode the neo-con wars' coat tails into power.

Before the Iraq War the Iran fundies were waining in power.

[geek tragedy]

81. I agree. The Iranian people will dump these assholes--

we just need to get out of their way.

[AlCzervik]

7. Is he insane or just a dick or both?

is he just trying to push everyone's button or does he actually believe what he's saying?

[Igel]

48. He believes it.

He has a PhD in Truthiness Studies.

All the various Holocaust deniers get cited as fact; theocratic populists aren't big into critical thinking. Thinking of power trumps the power of thinking.

[Richard Steele]

88. I think it's just a cynical political device.

His nonsensical, formulaic "fake holocaust" pronouncements
pump up his popularity amongst the Iranian backwash
in the same way that B*sh's various 'terra' and '9-11'
catchphrases are red meat to the Fox viewers here.

And for the same illogical, knee-jerk emotional reasons:
what he says doesn't have to be true, or even make any sense...
as long as he looks like a 'tough talker' when he says it,
and continues to antagonize and piss off "the enemy" his 'base'
has chosen to demonize.

[endarkenment]

8. Allied powers did nothing to stop the holocaust.

In fact they did less than nothing.

"After the Allies gained control of the Foggia air base in Italy in December 1943, Auschwitz was for the first time within striking distance of Allied planes. In June 1944, U.S. diplomats and Jewish leaders in Switzerland received a detailed report about Auschwitz, prepared by two escapees. They described the mass-murder facilities, and drew diagrams showing where the gas chambers and crematoria were located.

As a result, Jewish organizations repeatedly asked the Roosevelt administration to order the bombing of Auschwitz and the railroad lines leading to the camp. The War Department rejected the proposals as “impracticable,” claiming such raids would require “considerable diversion” of planes needed for the war effort. U.S. officials claimed to have conducted a “study” which found that bombing Auschwitz was not militarily feasible. But no evidence of the alleged study has ever been found.

Ironically, military resources were diverted for various other non-military reasons. Secretary of War Henry Stimson blocked the Air Force’s plan to bomb the Japanese city of Kyoto, because of its artistic treasures, and his deputy John McCloy --who rebuffed many of the requests to bomb Auschwitz-- diverted U.S. bombers from striking the German city of Rothenburg, because of its famous medieval architecture. General George Patton even diverted U.S. troops in order to rescue 150 Lipizzaner horses in Austria."
http://www.wymaninstitute.org/articles/2005-01-mcgovern.php

Be careful about the words attributed to Ahmadinejad. He is quite frequently mistranslated for propaganda purposes.

[geek tragedy]

10. There is no doubt that he's a Holocaust denier.

The official Iranian news agency points out how he and DAVID FUCKING IRVING agree on the subject.

It's beyond stupid to defend this piece of shit re: his repeated incidents of Holocaust denial.

[endarkenment]

13. Why thanks for the insult.

The problem is that I cannot find anything he has ACTUALLY said on this subject that is more reprehensible than the views of, say Pat Buchanan. I can find frequent examples of massively questionable interpretations of things he has said. I also think that we are in another War Campaign, and demonizing Ahmadinejad is part of that campaign. But once again, I sure appreciate the insult.

[geek tragedy]

14. Did Pat Buchanan suggest that the Allies

invented the Holocaust to embarrass Germany after WWII?

[endarkenment]

20. Pat has toyed with holocaust denial.

And has pushed some of the crap that the figures are impossible.

And I ain't convinced that this is what Ahmadinejad said. The article cited did not provide a quote that has him saying "the Allies invented the Holocaust to embarrass Germany after WWII?" I wonder why that is?

here is the actual quote:

""Is it not a reasonable possibility that some countries that had won the war made up this excuse to constantly embarrass the defeated people ... to bar their progress," Ahmadinejad said in the letter."

We don't know what "this" is, we don't know what "..." is, but we are sure what he said? I'm not.

[geek tragedy]

21. This is only the latest in a series of statements

he's issued.

It's beyond the reasonable doubt stage at this point.

[zreosumgame]

49. what does the flavor of the stupidity have to do with it?

When denying these kinds of things it does not matter HOW they phrase it, I don't CARE about the details they may argue or try to re-define, the only part that matters is they deny it. Your trying to excuse a pasty white guy's BS on this subject as acceptable, while a brown-skinned persons is bad puts you right in the post Katrina camp of 'blacks were looting, whites were surviving' camp. You might just want to re-evaluate your position.

[geek tragedy]

51. Oh please.

Buchanan is an anti-semite and far-right loon. However, Ahmadinejad is even worse--moreso than even Mel Gibson.

Pointing that out is not racism.

[enigma000]

19. Pat Buchanan isn't in the US government

Interesting point you made earlier about the allies lack of military action against Nazi death camps. They didn't seem to care. I'm sure Israelis know this; a fact that can't help but be part of their thinking.

[endarkenment]

23. I realize Pat is not the US government.

However he is frequently quoted here as evidence of thoughtful intelligence on the right. Nobody much says "yeah but he is a frootloop holocaust denier".

My point in all this is not really to defend Ahmadinejad or his views on the Holocaust. My point is that Ahmadinejad is frequently misquoted and that our hands are not exactly clean when it comes to what happened in Europe between 1933-1945.

There is one point that Ahmadinejad frequently makes that I do agree with: the victorious European powers made the people of the middle east pay for the crimes inflicted on the Jews by Europeans, and that was an injustice, and remains an injustice that has never been addressed or compensated. Israel is not going away and nor should it, but until there is a just and fair settlement the region will continue its endless cycle of violence.

[Psephos]

32. Buchanan: "evidence of thoughtful intelligence on the right"

LOL gimme a break

Even the right wants nothing to do with him, which about says it all. The dude is certifiable.

Peace.

[endarkenment]

45. Perhaps to you and me

However he is given MSM play as if he were a reasonable man, and as I stated, he is often quoted right here on DU for his anti-Iraq war views. He is not treated as a frootloop, in general, and his nazi side is generally ignored.

[cali]

92. What?

"Nobody much says "yeah but he is a frootloop holocaust denier". Not true. dozens of people have pointed out Buchanan's revolting remarks about Hitler and noted his anti-semitic history when he gets quoted here.

As for Ahmadinejad, criticising him does NOT equal support for bombing Iran- far from it, but it's just absurd for any Progressive to defend him. As for his remarks being mistranstlated, I've seen numerous complaints here insisting that the official translation from Iran is mistranslated- ridiculous.

[MikeyJones]

61. lol Buchanan is NOT an anti-semite.....

from what I've heard he only wondered in a book what would the world be like had the United States not gone to war with Hitler. That's all he was saying. I wouldn't discount him directly as a loon. He is at the moment a "enemy of my enemy is a friend" ally in that he is the staunchest enemy of the neo-conservatives in Washington.

What that one person was referring to when saying he isn't taken seriously by the right is that he represents the split in the right-wing intellectual scene. The neocons and the "classical" or "paleo"(take your pick) cons duke it out for intellectual superiority. Sadly he's losing at the minute. Buchanan is a staunch independent at the moment and is very pro-union and pro-worker unlike so many of our DLC Democratic pseudo-colleagues who have sold us out to multi-nationals who grease their campaigns with greenbacks.

While the old guard Repukeicans like James Baker kept the "crazies"(his own word) away from Reagan and Bush, Sr. -- he wasn't around this time to do anything and maintain a sane, albeit wrong governmental policy on the issue. Colin Powell was the sole voice screaming into the wind this time and he got pushed out by the wackos and the crooks.

Buchanan is wrong on many things but he stands with us on 3 important topics, the opposition of the insane(and yes, neoconservatives need to be put into mental institutions)Iraq war, his anti-globalization/pro-union stance, and his strong hatred of neocons, which we gladly share.

As far as I'm concerned he's a necessary "ally of the moment" who we need to defeat the likes of the Weekly Slandered and Faux News and William Kristol and his quasi-Likudnik neocon agenda.

[geek tragedy]

63. Pitchfork Pat is indeed a bigoted loon.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/08/22/buchanan-white-dominance/

[MikeyJones]

67. Like I said, I don't agree with him on everything.....

but we can't be too picky when we choose our allies in this day and age of corporate bought elections.

[davidinalameda]

104. Pat Buchanan as an ally?

:rofl:

[fujiyama]

113. LOL

The same James Baker that helped Bush steal the '00 election kept the crazies at bay?

[azurnoir]

34. And all of this

justifies what? Do you really support an attack on Iran because he said that? Does it somehow justify Israels recent actions? Israel has stated that they did not "steal" land from the Palestinians because there was no Palestine, does that give the Palestinians some special right of revenge or in this case it is just semantics? Both statements are obviously false, and I have a suspicion linked.

[geek tragedy]

42. Where did I advocate an attack on Iran or use his statements

as an excuse to Israeli war crimes and historical misdeeds?

[azurnoir]

47. YOU haven't just an insistance

that he said that, others however have used it as justification.

[geek tragedy]

50. He's a bigoted creep and racist, but he's not a strategic threat

to the United States.

And, yeah, neither was Saddam Hussein. Being odious and being dangerous are two different things.

[azurnoir]

54. True enough

I have been trying to figure out why this guy, who is presumably educated would say something so obviously false? But then, look at our pResident.:wtf:

[geek tragedy]

56. General rule about Holocaust deniers:

They don't really believe it didn't happen--they just wish Hitler had finished the job.

[The Magistrate]

78. You Have Put It In A Nutshell, Sir

[MikeyJones]

24. And who knows -- this may be another neoconservative attempt....

to salvage support for the war in Iraq and for a possible war with Iran that they so desperately masturbate every night about.

[geek tragedy]

25. Is Ahmadinejad a part of the Neocon conspiracy? eom

[MikeyJones]

53. No, Ahmadinejad isn't part of a neocon conspiracy.....

but -- it is possible that neocons are spinning his words to say something that they aren't in order to attempt to justify a war between Israel(and us of course) and the Iranians.

[geek tragedy]

55. Hard to spin Holocaust denial.

It doesn't make him dangerous, but it does make him a piece of shit.

[MikeyJones]

58. I think he is dangerous alright.....

but he's just running his big fat mouth. The neocons just want war because bigwigs like Murdoch and Hannity probably own millions in stock in Halliburton, Bechtel, etc.

So they stand to gain millions by enflaming a war.

[geek tragedy]

62. I think those fuckers just like war

because they get off on it--redeems their manhood, etc etc.

[endarkenment]

66. Iran does not have a history of belligerance.

Ahmadinejad might want war, but 'these fuckers', if by that you mean Iranians in general are not particularly militaristic. On the other hand our own 'fuckers' have a long history of warlike behavior going back at least 150 years or so. If one wants clear, unambiguously belligerant statements, including numerous threats to use nuclear weapons, see Washington D.C.

[geek tragedy]

71. I was referring to our 'fuckers.' eom

[schmuls]

69. That might be the truth, because he isn't a stupid man, and I can't

believe it everytime he says something like this. The Neocons are more than capable of issuing dis-information like this.

[geek tragedy]

72. It's not the Neocon media.

It's him--the Iranian state news agency has even produced statements about how David Irving and Ahmadinejad agree on this matter.

Sorry, but he really is this bad.

[stepnw1f]

70. It is Very Possible

because I've seen his quotes twisted before. Somebody offered an Iranian translation, and what he said was not only taken out of context, the translation was bad at best. I wouldn't be surprised.. so I wait before judging him.

I do not want to see another war... so with this guy, I'm being careful as not to jump on the "Hang Him!" bandwagon.

[azurnoir]

27. The real reason that the Allies

did not bomb Auschwitz is the Germans were diverting trains, equipment and men from their eastern campaign, to run the concentrtion camp. Keeping the camp open "helped" the war effort and the price for that "help" well Germany was at fault anyway.

[DavidDvorkin]

28. There was a story about some RAF pilots asking Churchill

for permission to bomb one of the camps. They said they could destroy the fences and guard emplacements, and the inmates would have a chance to escape. Churchill refused permission.

This came out a couple of years ago, I think. I don't remember any followup to the story.

[Kickoutthejams23]

37. First of all the allies were hardly saints

Killing women and children in the hundreds of thousands for a start. But a lot of these why didn't they bomb the camps threads are hooey. If the allies could bombs landed within say 500 yards of their target it was practically considered a direct hit. The concept they could bomb just the fences and guard towers borders on insane (even today it would be quite a feat)Also the allies were primarily interested in defeating Germany. Destroying non-productive German areas was simply not a priority. keep in mind the allies knowingly started firestorms to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. (Dresden, Tokyo et all) Saving a thousands of Germans and Poles was not on their priority list.

Sure they could have/should have done more. But they didn't. Sure purposely incinerating hundreds of thousands of woman and children is wrong. But we had a war to win.

What this has to do with a dangerous so to be nuclear religious nut running Iran is beyond me.

[Nihil]

94. Just FYI on your off-topic comments

> If the allies could bombs landed within say 500 yards of their target
> it was practically considered a direct hit. The concept they could bomb
> just the fences and guard towers borders on insane (even today it would
> be quite a feat)

They did it elsewhere during the war, just didn't do it here as the
benefits were not seen to justify the risks ...

e.g., the Amiens Prison Raid, 18 February 1944

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a1135199.shtml?sectionId=6&articleId=1135199

Theatre: Western Europe
Location: Amiens, north east France.
Players: Britain: Air Marshal Sir Arthur Coningham's 2nd Tactical Air Force (2 TAF).
Outcome: The liberation of 258 prisoners held by the Gestapo.
...
Later in the war, the Mosquito's ability to outrun German fighters was
seen as an asset outweighing its limited bomb load capacity. Mosquitoes
were increasingly used on hit-and-run diversionary raids, complementing
large scale area bombing missions, and on small-scale precision bombing
missions.
...
An outstanding example of this was the bombing of Amiens prison.
The prison's 700 inmates included several activists in the French
Resistance, 12 of whom were to be executed on 19 February 1944.
At noon on 18 February, 11 Mosquitoes dive-bombed the prison, dropping
time-delay bombs inside the outer wall from a height of 60 feet; the
guards' accommodation area was also bombed. A 12th Mosquito repeatedly
overflew the area and photographed the entire operation.

The blast breached the wall and blew in the doors of the prison.
The explosion killed 102 prisoners, but 258 escaped, including 79
Resistance or political prisoners; sadly, two-thirds of the escapees
were later recaptured.

Completed with the loss of two aircraft, including that of the
operation's leader Group Captain Percy Pickard, the Amiens prison raid
exemplified the costs of precision bombing as well as its advantages.
...

I agree that the Allies were certainly no angels (the war-stories of
my father and uncles taught me that) but they *were* able to make a
surprising number of precision strikes (air, sea & land) when necessary.

[Kickoutthejams23]

95. I was referring to standard bombing of course.

B-52s and Lancasters from way above. You are correct fighter bombers could be used in precision attacks and the costs you point out are also correct.

I was refuting those who act as if bombing the camps was an easy task.

[Bacchus39]

39. except defeat Hitler I guess

n/t

[endarkenment]

44. The point being that they could have

and should have acted to interfere with the slaughter of various people by the Nazi regime but did not choose to do so. Did you want to go into the whole sorry history of what we did or did not do to help those who were trying to escape the nazi regime?

Yes we defeated Hitler, but we let the holocaust continue right to the very end of the war, and we lied about our knowledge of what was going on.

[Bacchus39]

52. well, Stalin was an ally too.

How many millions did he kill? the allies certainly were not perfect. the defeat of Hitler put an end to the slaughter.

[MikeyJones]

83. Or they simply could have used the old policy of "prevention is better....

than correction" and not interfered in world war one and thus help destablize Germany so that a wildman promising normalcy can trick the people into electing him to office as was done in Germany due to the stupid "allies" wanting to steal all of Germany's colonies.

[Spider Jerusalem]

97. How were they supposed to do that in any effective manner?

There was NO WAY that any meaningful or effective action could have been taken by the Allies, not with the camps far behind the German lines in Poland. Any attempt at action would have meant diversion of men and materiel (bomber squadrons at least, and possibly ground troops) for a risky mission far behind enemy lines of no strategic importance; such diversion might conceivably have weakened Allied efforts elsewhere. The best thing the Allies could do to end what was happening in Auschwitz and Dachau and all the other camps was win the war as quickly as possible.

[Raskolnik]

110. Except actually *stop* it, that is.

You can certainly argue that we (the U.S.) were willfully ignorant about what was happening in Nazi Europe, but you must just as certainly agree that the Allied defeat of Nazi Germany did, in fact, put a stop to the Holocaust.

[Stella_Artois]

111. Oh top marks

Thats certainly the biggest pile of revisionist claptrap i've read for some time.

Did nothing to stop it ? You mean apart from fight a war against the regime carrying it out ? Bombing the camps would have just killed more Jews without any certainty of destroying the equipment. Equipment that could have been produced again and installed at some new camp somewhere else. The only way to stop the holocaust was to end the war.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

11. "Ahmadinejad is a crank,

and some of what he says is either badly translated or makes no sense in the original. Both are possible." Juan Cole

http://www.juancole.com/2006/05/ahmadinejad-as-w.html

[geek tragedy]

12. Cole considers Ahmadinejad a repulsive

Holocaust denier.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

15. I know, but I couldn't find that quote. nt

[geek tragedy]

17. It's in the entry you posted.

"Ahmadinejad's hostility to Israel and his Holocaust denial and bigotry are beneath contempt."

[Viva_La_Revolution]

22. lol more coffee please!

[Henny Penny]

35. Cole has this to say...

"Kayhan reports that Ahmadinejad said, "Iran is not a threat to any country, and is not in any way a people of intimidation and aggression." He described Iranians as people of peace and civilization. He said that Iran does not even pose a threat to Israel, and wants to deal with the problem there peacefully, through elections:

"Weapons research is in no way part of Iran's program. Even with regard to the Zionist regime, our path to a solution is elections."

Ahmadinejad seems to be explaining what his calls for the Zionist regime to be effaced actually mean. He says he doesn't want violence against Israel, despite its own acts of enmity against Middle Eastern neighbors. I interpret his statement on Saturday to be an endorsement of the one-state solution, in which a government would be elected that all Palestinians and all Israelis would jointly vote for. The result would be a government about half made up of Israeli ministers and half of Palestinian ones. Whatever one wanted to call such an arrangement, it wouldn't exactly be a "Zionist state," which would thus have been dissolved.

The schlock Western pundits, journalists and politicians who keep maintaining that Ahmadinejad threatened "to wipe Israel off the map" when he never said those words will never, ever manage to choke out the words Ahmadinejad spoke on Saturday, much less repeat them as a tag line forever after."

And adds below

"Although Iran's protestations of peaceful intentions are greeted cynically in the US and Israel, in fact Iran has not launched a war of aggression in over a century. The US and Israel have launched several during that period of time."

http://www.juancole.com/

My search function doesn't find the quote where Cole says Ahmadinejad is "a repulsive Holocaust denier", though I may not be looking on the correct page. Can you please post the entire quote in context?

[geek tragedy]

40. See this entry:

http://www.juancole.com/2006/05/ahmadinejad-as-w.html

"Ahmadinejad's hostility to Israel and his Holocaust denial and bigotry are beneath contempt."

[Henny Penny]

99. Thank you Geek. Here is the entire paragraph and the one before.

"The misquotation of Ahmadinejad, who actually quoted Khomeini as saying, "This occupation regime over Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," now seems all by itself to be producing visions of nuclear war!

Ahmadinejad, however, has condemned mass killing of any sort and was not threatening military action (he is in any case not in command of the Iranian military). He compares his hope for an end to any Zionist regime in geographical Palestine to Khomeini's prediction that the Soviet Union would one day vanish. It wasn't a hope to kill Soviet citizens, but a desire for regime change. Ahmadinejad's hostility to Israel and his Holocaust denial and bigotry are beneath contempt. But he has not threatened military action, and has no unconventional weapons, and his words, however hurtful, do not constitute a legitimate basis for a war of aggression on Iran."

I share the sentiment in bold.

[MikeyJones]

16. He's a brilliant politician......

look at the way the guy dresses -- like an ethnic Persian -- he attempts to portray himself as a man of the people and by constantly and consistently preaching to the choir -- as he's doing here -- he's cementing the support of his base. He knows what really happened. It's just that types like Savage and Hannity are pushing so hard for war that hillbilly idiots across Middle America will believe them when they say that he actually believes his maniacal comments.

The guy's playing a clever political game with the West and anybody who doesn't see that needs to re-examine their opinion on him.

[Psephos]

33. Exactly. That's what makes him dangerous.

It's one thing if he's looneytunes, quite another if he's manipulating mass political emotion.

Peace.

[MikeyJones]

57. North Korea and China are dangerous as hell too.....

Doesn't mean we should go bombing them into oblivion.

Peace to you as well.

[Psephos]

64. I'm with you there on NK

China, though, I'll reserve judgment upon.

I'm not into bombing anyone, btw...even if they're effin' nuts. :-)

Peace.

[ckramer]

77. North Korea and China are ten times less dangerous

than the Bush administration.

[ckramer]

74. He is John Mark Karr of Iran?

And we all played by him like a fool?

[Kickoutthejams23]

26. Yeah embarrass the Germans

[geek tragedy]

31. I guess that explains Hasselhoff. eom

[CJCRANE]

29. He is so wrong

politically, historically and morally on this issue.

[readmoreoften]

36. I don't see where he said that the holocaust is made up.

He could have said this, but it also could be a quote taken out of context:

(1) "Is it not a reasonable possibility that some countries that had won the war made up this excuse to constantly embarrass the defeated people ... to bar their progress," Ahmadinejad said in the letter.

"this excuse" could be something other than the Holocaust. I don't know because the whole letter is not given.


That being said, if he is saying that, he's insane. And stupid.

[earth mom]

38. Looks like what he's really saying to the U.S. & Israel is: BRING IT ON!

What other motivation could he have for spewing lies and stirring shit up like this?! Yikes!

:yoiks:

[damntexdem]

59. Actually, Ahmadinejad was invented to embarrass Iran.

Sort of like Dubya and the U.S.

[AngryAmish]

60. robot?

[schmuls]

68. hhmm...wonder how the numbers got tatooed on concentration

camp inmates arms?

[Nutmegger]

73. Iran letter to Germany says both facing "tyranny"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2474643

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told German Chancellor Angela Merkel that their two countries had been subjected to "tyranny" from the World War Two victors and should cooperate to end the "imposed" world order.

In the letter, the Iranian president did not repeat his previous assertion that the Holocaust, in which 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis, was a myth. But he said it had been used to weaken Germany, and he railed against Zionism.

[formercia]

75. This is surely for internal consumption

and he may be playing to the sector of Iranian society that believe Iran to be an Arian nation.

Let's wait and see what other translations say.

[kineneb]

106. probably

and as most people here keep forgetting, he is only the President. He does not have the same "powers" as the Constitution gives the US President; he still has to answer to the council of Mullahs above him. And they have stated that they have no intention of developing a bomb or bombing Israel, as it would violate the rules in the Koran.

So all of it is just so much bluster, designed for his 30% base, just as Bush/Cheney play to their 30% base.

[geek tragedy]

76. Iranian National News Agency has a version up

http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0608289028190234.htm

"I have no intention of arguing about the Holocaust. But, does it not stand to reason that some victorious countries of World War II intended to create an alibi on the basis of which they could continue keeping the defeated nations of World War II indebted to them."

[Master of Disaster]

79. Ahmadinejad is the Middle East's version of Hugo Chavez.

Each of them reminds me of an immature child who is constantly seeking attention by way of his outrageous actions.

[w4rma]

82. Not really. One is a fundie and is clamping down on democracy

and any free press in his nation. The other is secular and is criticized daily (much like President Clinton was) in his nation's press.

This guy is right-wing.

Chavez is left wing. Chavez would never in millions of years think that the holocost was made up.

[muryan]

101. no, but he is equally as far off on his own end of the political spectrum.

chavez CAN be just as dangerous if he keeps beating an anti-US drum. (im not advocating any kind of action against chavez, but he certainly isnt helping out our situation at the moment)

[Henny Penny]

103. How can Chavez be as dangerous?

By selling his oil to other people? Surely that is his right?

[muryan]

105. Yes it is his right

but like i said it doesnt make our situation any easier. I dont want to live with energy cutbacks and fuel rationing...do you?

[Master of Disaster]

107. Some of what you say is true; nevertheless, Chavez been known

to make some pretty outrageous statements.

In my opinion, he is just as much of a flake as Ahmadinejad is.

[wellst0nev0ter]

85. I Thought The Holocaust Was Invented To Occupy Palestine

as per the recent Mike Wallace interview. Are both theories mutually exclusive? :eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

91. Do you have a point?

There are plenty of times this idiot has said "If the Holocaust is true..." He is a Holcaust denier. It is very easy for most people to see this.

[wellst0nev0ter]

108. It's Called Sarcasm, Dear

Try to keep up.

[Behind the Aegis]

109. Well, dear, it wasn't clear, which is why I asked for clarification. n/t

[ottomattic]

86. Allied powers did nothing?

endarkenment:  "Allied powers did nothing to stop the
holocaust.
In fact they did less than nothing."


Well except destroy the third reich, liberate Europe, and
dismantle the nazi war machine.    

[IndianaGreen]

87. I don't care what this fool says, it is not enough reason to bomb Iran

There are no reasons for us to go to war against Iran, none whatsoever!

The corporate media is going full blast trying to get gullible Americans to hate and fear Iran so that they support Bush's criminal war plans. They and their neocon allies, and their fellow travelers in Israel, are beating the war drums as they did before to get us to support the war in Iraq. We were fooled once by this disgusting and evil cabal, let's not fall for it again!

[geek tragedy]

100. There is a four-letter explanation as to why military action

against Iran is a horrible idea and will not fly with the American people.

I. R. A. Q.

[Throd]

89. The enemy of my enemy would like to see me dead.

[Ignacio Upton]

90. This guy is a total loon

I'd like to see him in a special international edition of the Top 10 Conservative Idiots. Unfortunately, if it wasn't for the invasion of Iraq, Iran would probably have elected another (relatively from their spectrum) moderate figure like Khatami. And unlike Iraq, which is an artificial country created by the British and has no democratic traditions, Iran would have a good chance of having a stable democracy. They are a more homogenous and nationalistic people (think of the Persian Empire) and did democraticly elect a government...until that one was overthrown by the CIA.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

96. If you were a Jew, would you hang around in Germany?

And, it's not like the Grand Mufti was an innocent bystander.

[samsingh]

98. very insane comment

[fujiyama]

112. Schizophrenic anti-semite

One minute he says the Jews were killed in Germany, and they should have had to pay, then the next minute he claims nothing happened?...oh wait, that was only on 60 minutes, where it seems like some on this board were duped by him as well. I think his intent of denying the holocaust is pretty clear. He doesn't live in reality, like a few other leaders in the world.

He's a nut folks. He's illiberal, theocratic, racist, and authoritarian. I don't know how some were praising him.

[mac56]

115. Bill Maher made a good point about Ahmadinejad on Larry King.

He said that Ahmadinejad and Bush are doing the same thing: they're playing and pandering to their respective bases.

And of course they're both batshit crazy.

[Critters2]

116. Mycritters claims that Ahmadinejad Invented to Embarass Iran. nt