Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Bush and Saddam Should Both Stand Trial, Says Nuremberg Prosecutor

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 10:57 AM
Original message
Bush and Saddam Should Both Stand Trial, Says Nuremberg Prosecutor
Edited on Fri Aug-25-06 10:58 AM by Barrett808
Bush and Saddam Should Both Stand Trial, Says Nuremberg Prosecutor
Aaron Glantz, OneWorld US

SAN FRANCISCO, Aug 25 (OneWorld) - A chief prosecutor of Nazi war crimes at Nuremberg has said George W. Bush should be tried for war crimes along with Saddam Hussein. Benjamin Ferenccz, who secured convictions for 22 Nazi officers for their work in orchestrating the death squads that killed more than 1 million people, told OneWorld both Bush and Saddam should be tried for starting "aggressive" wars--Saddam for his 1990 attack on Kuwait and Bush for his 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"Nuremberg declared that aggressive war is the supreme international crime," the 87-year-old Ferenccz told OneWorld from his home in New York. He said the United Nations charter, which was written after the carnage of World War II, contains a provision that no nation can use armed force without the permission of the UN Security Council.

Ferenccz said that after Nuremberg the international community realized that every war results in violations by both sides, meaning the primary objective should be preventing any war from occurring in the first place.

He said the atrocities of the Iraq war--from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and the massacre of dozens of civilians by U.S. forces in Haditha to the high number of civilian casualties caused by insurgent car bombs--were highly predictable at the start of the war.

"Every war will lead to attacks on civilians," he said. "Crimes against humanity, destruction beyond the needs of military necessity, rape of civilians, plunder--that always happens in wartime. So my answer personally, after working for 60 years on this problem and who hates to see all these young people get killed no matter what their nationality, is that you've got to stop using warfare as a means of settling your disputes."

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/oneworld/20060825/wl_oneworld/45361383191156511966

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. yes! I agree whole-heartedly


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
35. So glad to see
someone else say this!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaRa Donating Member (705 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. And any senator who voted in favor
must now say "I was WRONG!" or they are a coward. Which is it, Hillary?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. and MEAN it--no more "We must invade Iran instead" Gleichschaltung
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. They could testify on each other's behalf
Share a cell. Become friends. Two of a kind. They would discover how much they have in common.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Two Different Characters
Saddam was a self-made self-aggrandizing lunatic. Bush wouldn't want to hobnob with the Nouveau Evil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. I agree too! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Faux pas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. From his lips to God's ears....nt/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. I wonder if this might bolster the case of Ehren Watada
... and other objectors to US involvement in Iraq. If one of the prosecutors at Nuremburg is accusing Bush, that strongly implies that military personnel who "just follow orders" can also be accused of war crimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. and the poor Iraqi's have traded one war criminal in for another
and they die daily under the bullshit of freedom..and the American people still go shopping and run their air conditioning..and drive their big cars..and are totally oblivious to the terror we have exported to the Iraqi people!

and little lord pissy pants will steal another election..because they are scared shitless that they will be held accountable for their crimes against humanity..

freedom is on the march right??

fuckkkk

fly
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. Oh, please make it so! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Purveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. "Keep Hope Alive"... n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
11. Absolutely. Any decent human being believes Bu*h and his band
of fascist thugs are war criminals.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
12. Anyone know
if the MSM is picking up on this at all over your side ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Are you kidding?
Tee Vee is busy terra-izing the US and convincing Mercans that they "know" we have to go to war with Iran. Can't hold anyone accountable if we're at (another) war, and the neocons are still untouched and apparently untouchable.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Recommended; especially important is the third paragraph:
"Ferenccz said that after Nuremberg the international community realized that every war results in violations by both sides, meaning the primary objective should be preventing any war from occurring in the first place."

War was absolutely not the last resort for Shrub & Co.; it was the first. All their other crimes stem from that fact. Well, most of them, anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Blair too. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Yes , be good to see the two of them
holding hands in the dock.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Watching "Judgment at Nuremberg" recently made this seem
especially apparent to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. Saw that in the last 6 months.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. As nasty as he is, I don't understand why Saddam is on trial
How could he break the laws of Iraq when he was the law in Iraq? Whereas our buddy George breaks US law every day of the week.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. why can't we have more prosecuters to say what this man has
said, ICC take notice. please
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. Please America, listen for once.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. They could be roomies together. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. We've been saying this for quite a while now.
Bush is the biggest war criminal in the world now. Try him in the world court.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. In addition, Poppy Bush and Rumsfeld should be prosecuted...
...for complicity with Saddam's use of unlawful weapons, as well as illegally arming Saddam with ballistic missile and biological warfare technology.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
25. I wish he would also comment on media complicity.
They determined the media who promoted preemptive war propaganda as guilty of war crimes as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thou shalt not kill. What word don't you understand? ...
snip...
"you've got to stop using warfare as a means of settling your disputes"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. The word you don't understand is 'kill'...
The word is 'murder'.

Sorry to burst your bubble...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #28
44. That's debatable - and in my bible, it says 'kill'.
Edited on Sat Aug-26-06 11:41 AM by cyberpj
And even with disagreement over the word, the concept remains the same when remarking, as I did in my post, on this quote from the article: "you've got to stop using warfare as a means of settling your disputes". So I'm wondering why you found it necessary to snipe.


The Holy Bible: King James Version. 2000.

The Second Book of Moses, Called
Exodus
20

The Ten Commandments
Deut. 5.1-21
1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 ¶ I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 ¶ Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 ¶ Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5 thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: Ex. 34.17 · Lev. 19.4 ; 26.1 · Deut. 4.15-18 ; 27.15 for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Ex. 34.6, 7 · Num. 14.18 · Deut. 7.9, 10

7 ¶ Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: Lev. 19.12 for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8 ¶ Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Ex. 16.23-30 ; 31.12-14

9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:

10 but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, Ex. 23.12 ; 31.15 ; 34.21 ; 35.2 · Lev. 23.3 thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Gen. 2.1-3 · Ex. 31.17

12 ¶ Honor thy father and thy mother: Deut. 27.16 · Mt. 15.4 ; 19.19 · Mk. 7.10 ; 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Eph. 6.2 that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Eph. 6.3

13 ¶ Thou shalt not kill. Gen. 9.6 · Lev. 24.17 · Mt. 5.21 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11

14 ¶ Thou shalt not commit adultery. Lev. 20.10 · Mt. 5.27 ; 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9 · Jas. 2.11

15 ¶ Thou shalt not steal. Lev. 19.11 · Mt. 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20 · Rom. 13.9

16 ¶ Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Ex. 23.1 · Mt. 19.18 · Mk. 10.19 · Lk. 18.20

17 ¶ Thou shalt not covet Rom. 7.7 ; 13.9 thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. and they should both hang
as we hung the Nazi war criminals!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-25-06 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
31. Don't forget their supporters. Like Blair and Olmert
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #31
39. Aznar.
Berlusconi.
Howard...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
34. That should settle it for anyone who denies the illegality of this "war".
It's illegal.

BUSH TO THE HAGUE!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. Baker Botts. Interesting
"The offenses attributable to ex-President Hussein since he came
to power range from the supreme international crime of aggression
to a wide variety of crimes against humanity," he wrote after
Saddam was ousted in 2003. "A fair trial will achieve many goals.
The victims would find some satisfaction in knowing that their
victimizer was called to account and could no longer be immune
from punishment for his evil deeds. Wounds can begin to heal.
The historical facts can be confirmed beyond doubt.
....
Similar crimes by other dictators might be discouraged or deterred
in future. The process of justice through law, on which the safety
of humankind depends, would be reinforced."
....
But on May 6, 2002--less than a year before the invasion of Iraq--the
Bush administration withdrew the United States' signature on the
treaty and began pressuring other countries to approve bilateral
agreements requiring them not to surrender U.S. nationals to the ICC.
....
Three months later, George W. Bush signed a new law prohibiting any
U.S. cooperation with the International Criminal Court.

The law went so far as to include a provision authorizing the president
to "use all means necessary and appropriate," including a military invasion
of the Netherlands, to free U.S. personnel detained or imprisoned by the ICC.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/oneworld/20060825/wl_oneworld/45361383191156511966


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
36. Been saying it . Will Keep saying it
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Solly%20Mack/63

Here you go..it's one I'm still working on
Edited on Tue Aug-22-06 06:22 PM by Solly Mack
but the fact is, whether anyone likes it or not, the Nuremberg Principles ,or the London Charter of the International Military Tribunal,are the basis for charging Bush with war crimes now - just as they were the basis for charging Nazi Germany then.

An understanding of how the rules and laws for the Nuremberg Tribunals came about explains why. The Nuremberg Principles were not meant to only address what happened in Nazi Germany. The UN Charter adopted the international laws regarding war and the treatment of people coming out of the Nuremberg Principles,also called the London Charter of the International Military Tribunal.

America invaded a country for lies manufactured, supported and perpetuated by Bush. American then detained, tortured and murdered that country's citizens. Downplaying what is happening in Iraq won't change the facts.

Understanding that the Nuremberg Principles are the basis for much of current international law lets us know that yes, the exact same laws used against Nazi Germany can be used against the Bush Administration - and for many of the same crimes.


I - “Pre-Emption”, “Wars of Aggression” and “Crimes Against Peace”

Pre-Emption:

• The Pentagon’s official definition of preemption is “an attack initiated on the basis of incontrovertible evidence that an enemy attack is imminent.”

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/USAWC/Parameters/03spring/...


Wars of Aggression: Up for adoption by amendment. See: “Crimes Against Pace” below.

• Invasion or attack by the armed forces of a State of the territory of another State, or military occupation, or annexation of territory by the use of force

• Bombardment by armed forces of a State against the territory of another State
the blockade of ports or coasts of a State

• The use of armed forces of a State which are within the territory of another State in violation of the terms of an agreement between those States

• A State allowing its territory to be used by another State for an act of aggression against a third State

• A State sending armed bands, groups, irregulars or mercenaries to carry out grave acts of armed force against another State.

What defines a war of aggression, adopted from the Nuremberg Principles and “Crimes Against Peace”, as well as used in the UN Charter, is up for adoption by the ICC in Rome in 2009.
Wars of Aggression

Crimes Against Peace:

• In international law, a crime against peace is the act of military invasion as a war crime. When one nation invades another nation in violation of “international treaties, agreements or legally binding assurances.”



“Crimes Against Peace” were introduced in the Nuremberg Principles and later adopted in the UN Charter. Wars of Aggression are better defined and understood through “Crimes Against Peace” and how it was applied to Nazi Germany during the Nuremberg Trials. In other words, the charge of “Crimes Against Peace” referred to what are now commonly called “Wars of Aggression”, and was a criminal charge applied to Nazi Germany.


The London Charter of the International Military Tribunal was the guiding principles and rules by which the Nuremberg Tribunal was carried out. It’s where “Crimes Against Peace” (wars of aggression) was established as a crime. The London Charter is also called the Nuremberg Charter





Nuremberg Principles, Article 6


The Tribunal established by the Agreement referred to Article 1 hereof for the trial and punishment of the major war criminals of the European Axis countries shall have the power to try and punish persons who, acting in the interests of the European Axis countries, whether as individuals or as members of organizations, committed any of the following crimes.
The following acts, or any of them, are crimes coming within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal for which there shall be individual responsibility:

(a) CRIMES AGAINST PEACE: namely, planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing;

(b) WAR CRIMES: namely, violations of the laws or customs of war. Such violations shall include, but not be limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory, murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity;

(c)CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY: namely, murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war; or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated.




War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity as per the Nuremberg Tribunal Judgment

Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal provides:


"(b) War Crimes: namely, violations of the laws or customs of war.

Such violations shall include, but not be limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave labour or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory, murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages. or devastation not justified by military necessity;

" (c) Crimes against Humanity: namely, murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation(rendition), and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated."


Iraq on the Record: The Bush Administration’s Public Statements on Iraq
http://democrats.reform.house.gov/IraqOnTheRecord/pdf_a...

The Bush Administration on Iraq
http://www.bushoniraq.com /



III - Torture, Illegal Detentions, Cruel and Humiliating Treatment of Detainees and Extraordinary Rendition by the US Government

Iraq Prisoners
http://archive.democrats.com/preview.cfm?term=Iraq%20Pr...

U.S. Torture and Abuse of Detainees
http://hrw.org/campaigns/torture.htm

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo: in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN
http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/afx/2005/06/24/afx2110...

Recent Human Rights Watch Work on the Torture and Abuse of U.S. Detainees
http://www.hrw.org/doc/?t=usai_torture

Torture Documents Released Under FOIA. ACLU
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/torturefoia.html

The Abu Ghraib files
http://www.salon.com/news/abu_ghraib/2006/03/14/introdu...

The Taguba Report
http://www.publicintegrity.org/docs/AbuGhraib/Taguba_Re...

Testimony of Detainees Before the Combatant Status Review Tribunal
http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/detainees/csrt/index.html


Bush Crimes Commission
http://www.bushcommission.org /

Beyond Abu Ghraib: detention and torture in Iraq
http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde140012006

Extraordinary Rendition - FACT SHEET
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/extraordinaryrendition/222...


Outsourcing Torture
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050214fa_fact6


UN Torture Prevention Plan Adopted Despite US Opposition
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0725-01.htm

ABU GHRAIB
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/currentawareness/abughraib.p...


White House treading on other branches
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/columnist...

“…Sen. John McCain’s anti-torture amendment introduced (a bill) to have the Army Field Manual upheld and prevent “cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment or punishment” of anyone in U.S. custody?
Bush signed it, then dissented in a signing statement.

Gonzales approached Congress last week to nullify the War Crimes Act approved about decade ago which upheld the Geneva Conventions and criminalizes torture. The Bushvolk asked Congress for a shield to further violate human rights and tarnish the military.”

Torture and ill-treatment: the arguments
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/stoptorture-arguments-eng

Letter 'shows Guantanamo torture'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3706050.stm








IV – International Law: Torture and Other Cruel, Inhumane or Degrading Treatment or Punishment

Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/h_cat39.htm

Convention Against Torture: CAT
http://www.hrweb.org/legal/undocs.html#CAT

Convention against Torture

This convention bans torture under all circumstances and establishes the UN Committee against Torture. In particular, it defines torture, requires states to take effective legal and other measures to prevent torture, declares that no state of emergency, other external threats, nor orders from a superior officer or authority may be invoked to justify torture. It forbids countries to return a refugee to his country if there is reason to believe he/she will be tortured, and requires host countries to consider the human rights record of the person's native country in making this decision.

The CAT requires states to make torture illegal and provide appropriate punishment for those who commit torture. It requires states to assert jurisdiction when torture is committed within their jurisdiction, either investigate and prosecute themselves, or upon proper request extradite suspects to face trial before another competent court. It also requires states to cooperate with any civil proceedings against accused torturers.

Each state is obliged to provide training to law enforcement and military on torture prevention, keep its interrogation methods under review, and promptly investigate any allegations that its officials have committed torture in the course of their official duties. It must ensure that individuals who allege that someone has committed torture against them are permitted to make and official complaint and have it investigated, and, if the complaint is proven, receive compensation, including full medical treatment and payments to survivors if the victim dies as a result of torture.. It forbids states to admit into evidence during a trial any confession or statement made during or as a result of torture. It also forbids activities which do not rise to the level of torture, but which constitute cruel or degrading treatment.

The second part of the Convention establishes the Committee Against Torture, and sets out the rules on its membership and activities.
The Convention was passed and opened for ratification in February, 1985. At that time twenty nations signed, and five more signed within the month. At present sixty five nations have ratified the Convention against torture and sixteen more have signed but not yet ratified it.

Summary of International and U.S. Law Prohibiting Torture and Other Ill-treatment of Persons in Custody
http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/24/usint8614.ht...




War Crimes Act of 1996 – Federal US Law
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec...


18 U.S.C. § 2441. War crimes

(a) Offense.--Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.

(b) Circumstances.--The circumstances referred to in subsection (a) are that the person committing such breach or the victim of such war crime is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act).

(c) Definition.--As used in this section the term ‘war crime’ means any conduct--
(1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party;
(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907;
(3) which constitutes a violation of common Article 3 of the international conventions signed at Geneva, 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party and which deals with non- international armed conflict; or
(4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996 (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.


V - Additonal Reading
INTERPRETATION OF THE DEFINITION OF
TORTURE OR CRUEL, INHUMAN OR DEGRADING
TREATMENT OR PUNISHMENT IN THE LIGHT OF
EUROPEAN AND INTERNATIONAL CASE LAW
http://www.omct.org/pdf/omct_europe/2004/omctreport_def...





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
38. I saw this guy on a C-Span panel a few months back.
What a great man. I totally agree with him. They should be tried for war crimes. However, it will most likely snow in hell before that ever happens. There would have to a major, major change in this country for that to happen. (What I mean is a real democracy not in thrall to the corporations or the uber rich.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Biernuts Donating Member (446 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
40. Be careful what you wish for because of unintended consequences.
Because by that standard, Bill Clinton needs to go too since the US Security Council never authorized his bombing of Serbia over Kosovo. The Chinese are STILL pissed about President Clinton bombing their Belgrade embassy and killing several of their people.

Of course Serbia has already tried Mr. Clinton, as well as Madeline Albright, (General and Commander, US European Command) Wes Clark and a few others for war crimes. They failed to show up for their trials and were convicted in absentia. Just speculating, I predict that they won't be vacationing in the former Yugoslavia anytime soon since it would turn into a 30 to 40-year stay. Any truth to the rumor Hillary has bought him a ticket on a Serbian tour?

As an aside, I remember when Mr. Clinton was dropping bombs on Belgrade when one of our local radio stations interviewed a US Congressman (but sorry, can't remember who). The radio guy mentioned the war in Serbia and the congressdude excitedly retorted that there wasn't any war in Serbia. My thought at the time was: "If someone was bombing YOUR capital city, THEN would you call it a war?" In 9-11, only one plane hit the capital (and technically the Pentagon is in Virginia) while United 93 never made it to the Capitol (Building) or White House due to the extraordinary actions of the passengers. My view is that whenever one country is bombing another, especially the capital city, then it's de facto war regardless of any congressional declaration, or lack thereof.

Interesting hypothetical: Suppose Serbia captures Bin Laden alive and offers to trade him for Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Madeline Albright, Bill Cohen and Wes Clark. Deal or no deal?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. "In 9-11, only one plane hit the capital ..."
And that was connected to Iraq how???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. He and Albright should be tried as well
and the country will be better off when we start holding our leaders accountable for their crimes, such as the criminal invasion of Panama ordered by Poppy Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Sounds fine to me... The continued sanctions Clinton enforced over
Iraq also killed hundreds of thousands of children. Clinton also supported forcing US backed "regime change" in Iraq...he also had no respect for the sovereignty of Iraq.

On the plus side for Bill, if he is convicted he would get away from Hillary without having to make excuses.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-26-06 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
43. YES YES YES!!!!!
I agree 100%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
46. How could Saddam Hussein have been put on trial without a war?
How could Bush be put on trial without a war? If it would be okay to start a war to capture Bush and put him on trial, then why was it not okay for Bush to start a war to capture Saddam Hussein and put Saddam Hussein on trial?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Iraq war was not authorized by UN, that's why.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CollegeDUer Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-03-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
48. This should be on every news station in America
It's that important.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC