Venezuelan Troops Take U.S. Embassy Bags

[cal04]

Authorities seized several U.S. diplomatic bags at Venezuela's main airport on Thursday, prompting protest from embassy officials and a probe into the Americans' actions by prosecutors.

Attorney General Isaias Rodriguez said prosecutors would investigate U.S. officials for allegedly sidestepping official regulations and checkpoints when bringing the diplomatic bags into the South American country.

Rodriguez made the announcement after Venezuelan National Guard troops seized the bags earlier Thursday from four U.S. embassy vehicles stopped outside Caracas' Simon Bolivar International Airport. The vehicles had just picked up the bags from a U.S. military aircraft on the tarmac, he said.

(snip)
``They contained supplies for the (Venezuelan) armed forces,'' Rodriguez told reporters. He did not elaborate or say why U.S. officials would be sending supplies to Venezuela's military. No arrests have been made.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6037117,00.html

[Kagemusha]

1. I saw something in an anime once...

It was a fictional giant robot Japanese cartoon, and an American robot that had once pulled up a very large, powerful rifle from a storage unit buried just under the surface back in the US, did the same trick during a battle in a later episode in Japan.

So people did a double-take. What the heck was THAT thing doing in JAPAN?

Tut, tut. American embassy. American soil. Totally legal.

My thoughts: They must've brought it over in a VERY LARGE red diplomatic bag.

This news story reminds me of that thought. Yes, they let you bring stuff over, but one must wonder how that can be abused... and what happens when a country decides to clamp down on such abuse, which is considered an "undiplomatic" thing to do.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

2. Not good

Those bags are considered to be American soil. I don't think Venezuela would like i much if we did that to them...

[Kagemusha]

3. Oh I imagine the US is doing a great deal on Venezuelan soil as it is.

There were participants in a coup against Chavez who were busted out of prison recently and whisked out of the country. Very widespread, professional effort. You'd almost think it must be the work of a foreign intelligence agency...

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

4. Very interesting...

Did not know that.

[Bacchus39]

23. more like an inside job since local officials would need to be

involved to pull it off.

[Kagemusha]

25. Intel agencies have been known to bribe local officials.

So it's not necessarily either/or here. Speculation either way obviously.

[1932]

5. Yeah, but if Venezuela were trying to indentify officers in the US army

who would be willing to support a coup agains the US and were going outside the normal procedure for sending diplomatic pouches into the US and the US intercepted those bags, I bet Venezuela would understand why the US did that.

[Bacchus39]

24. explain??

n/t

[1932]

27. If you're going to say "if the shoe were on the other foot" you might as

well get the analogy right.

[Bacchus39]

31. I didn't say that, diplomatic pouches are exempt from customs

it is like sending mail from one US post office to another. a foreign entity does not inspect that. add to that government communications sent to the embassy that is meant to be classified and that all countries are entitled to. who is spying here?????

[1932]

38. I don't think you're allowed to send detonators by mail.

[Richard Steele]

20. Chavez may be many things, but he's far from stupid.

He wouldn't be doing this without a reason,
and a plan for every contingency.

This is a chess move, not a foolish mistake.

[Taverner]

42. Personally I think he's trying to protect his own country

God knows what the US is bringing into Venezuela. We've been trying to get our Venezuelan Pinochet in there for years now.

If Chavez told the US Embassy to leave, I would fully understand.

[Solo_in_MD]

6. Bad Chavez, no spare F-16 parts....

[Canuckistanian]

7. Diplomatic bags or "pouches" are normally considered sacrosanct

You may have a problem with embassies or diplomatic missions smuggling things into your country, but you do not seize the diplomatic bags while they're in transit, unless you have SERIOUS evidence against them.

And the Americans are not without fault, either. They should have disclosed the exact number of pouches coming into Venezuela.

That is also a serious breach of protocol.

[Kagemusha]

8. Ok, the host country's not supposed to touch. Is it allowed to see?

I mean, they mention here that the contents were not cleared through customs... is clearing through customs how this stuff's supposed to work? At least to establish if something is, say, documents, instead of an invasive species of insect, say.

[Canuckistanian]

10. Diplomatic bags don't go through customs

As a rule.

The idea is, you either trust the foreign country's diplomatic corps or you break off diplomatic relations.

But you don't go through their designated diplomatic material.

[zreosumgame]

34. yeah, you just bug their offices and embassies

like the CIA does, and the KGB, or whatever it's called this decade. Gotta love how similar their methods have been

[IndianaGreen]

9. I suspect the Venezuelans already know what is in those pouches

Chavez recently announced the busting of a CIA spy ring.

Diplomatic protocol cannot be used to foment a coup!

[Canuckistanian]

11. Then they need prior evidence

And they'd better be prepared to use it in case of an international lawsuit or criminal proceeding.

[Vidar]

14. Probably preliminary to throwing more American spies out.

[TomInTib]

13. "Diplomatic pouches" have long been a problem..

Unless I am mistaken, this issue was one of our original insertions in the original UN Charter.

[Andrushka]

12. "breach of protocol" huh?

What's this all about, then:

Baggage of diplomatic passport holders is not normally subject to inspection. Venezuelan Government inspectors are authorized to open baggage of official passport holders and they occasionally do.

http://www.ediplomat.com/np/post_reports/pr_ve.htm

Why is this even a story? :eyes:

[Kagemusha]

15. Because some people apparently simply don't believe what you quoted

I think because diplomatic bags usually come up in NOVELS. Few of us have any dealings with the issue in real life.

[Bacchus39]

22. a diplomatic pouch is not personal luggage carried by the diplomats

its not the same thing at all.

dip'lomat'ic pouch'


a sealed mailbag containing diplomatic correspondence that is sent free of inspection between a foreign office and its diplomatic or consular post abroad or from one such post to another.

[Andrushka]

26. I see

Thanks for pointing that out.

I just took a look at VHeadline (OK, now not the most unbiased source when it comes to Venezuela - that said, I like the site). They had this up there quoted from Turkish Weekly ("Turkish Weekly"?):

Relations between Washington and Caracas soured in diplo-bag debacle

(snip)

Venezuela's foreign ministry told the BBC that a piece of luggage belonging to the US naval attache had been seized but they stressed it was not, as it were, an official diplomatic bag.

(snip)

A ministry official said they were alerted to three lorries leaving the airport compound without reporting to customs as required by law. She said the third lorry was told to stop and that is when the military attache's belongings were searched.
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=66837

The plot thickens.

Article 36.2. of the Vienna Convention provides that the personal baggage of a diplomat may be inspected if there are "serious grounds for presuming that contains articles not for personal use of the diplomat or his family or for official use of the mission... or articles the import or export of which is prohibited by the law or controlled by the quarantine regulations of the receiving state."

However, I am guessing this does not apply to diplomatic bags marked as such. In the above report, it says "belongings," which doesn't sound like it is an official pouch, no? Then again..."Turkish Weekly," so...who knows?

(ON EDIT: The above Turkish Weekly report is basically the BBC's one: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5284260.stm)

[Sgent]

39. Because

Official is NOT diplomatic -- there are levels, of which someone traveling on an official passport is lower than a diplomatic passport.

In addition -- that applies to luggage (Diplomatic luggage -- even personal luggage -- is sacrosanct), a diplomatic pouch cannot be touched under any circumstances.

We respected these rights of the Japanese & Germans during WWII. Venezula committed (legally) an act of war.

Venezula has 2 options -- kick us out, or follow diplomatic precident dating back hundreds of years.

[dusmcj]

16. I guess they found out about the electroshock equipment

traditional "export" (wink wink nudge nudge) to our "allies" ("NGO" or not).

Remember, the Contras were freedom fighters, while the Sandinistas were communist terrorists.

Same shit, same smell, who gives a fuck what millenium it is, our President is Republican.

[Judi Lynn]

17. Reuters is incontinent. Couldn't hold it past the second paragraph

before bellowing Chavez has close relations with Cuba and with Iran! The very embodiment of restraint! (It's not as if they ALL don't mention this EVERY ####ING TIME they write a word about Hugo Chavez! Without a doubt, there's a standing order that "evil enemy" information goes into every goddamned article until _Bush can finally find a way to get him slaughtered.

Reuters:

U.S. protests Venezuela diplomatic cargo search
Reuters
Thursday, August 24, 2006; 9:43 PM


CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - The U.S. Embassy in Caracas accused Venezuelan soldiers on Thursday of violating diplomatic protocol by illegally searching embassy baggage that was being trucked from the capital's airport.

Relations between Venezuela and its chief oil client the United States are increasingly tense as President Hugo Chavez spars with Washington over his self-styled socialist revolution and close ties to Cuba and Iran.

"National Guard officials violated diplomatic norms carrying out an illegal revision of the diplomatic baggage of the U.S. Embassy," embassy spokesman Brian Penn told local television. "The State Department in Washington has been informed of this incident."

Venezuelan authorities said the cargo was inspected on Wednesday because of procedural irregularities and after it had failed to clear customs. Attorney General Isaias Rodriquez said government lawyers were investigating the cargo, which he said included supplies for the armed forces. He gave no details.
(snip/...)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/24/AR2006082401403.html

[leftchick]

18. that is horrible Judi!

It is like reading what that awful Kitty Pilgrim says on Lou Dobbs show week after week about Chavez. Except she always includes "radical leftist" in her description!

:grr:

[Judi Lynn]

19. They can't rise above it! It's a free cheap shot, and too easy to pass up.

Free dirty propaganda pitching for everyone. You'll sound like a right-wing pro! Get in there and throw those dirty punches, Kitty!

How long has it been since you've seen ANY of them simply tell a simple news story the straight way, without (((((((((( spinning ))))))))))) it until it doesn't even matter resemble the truth? None of their yammering sounds like simple news reading now, it only sounds like anti-Democratic, lunatic raving.



What a colossal a-hole.

[0007]

21. With Russians giving junior stern warnings about Iran & Venezuela

seizing U.S. diplomatic bags at the airport, will Mexico try to get junior's boots tonight?

[Kickoutthejams23]

28. Great give shrub casus belli.

Hate to say it but these kind of nonsense can be used as precursor to invasion. Remember Panama?

[AngryAmish]

29. This could be considered an act of war

I don't know the circumstances and I hope Chimpy McHitler does not do anything stupid.

[Andrushka]

30. The terminology is changing

OK, so far I've seen "diplomatic bags" and "diplomatic pouches" - Reuters, as Judi Lynn posted above, is quoting a US official who says:

"National Guard officials violated diplomatic norms carrying out an illegal revision of the diplomatic baggage of the U.S. Embassy," embassy spokesman Brian Penn told local television. "The State Department in Washington has been informed of this incident."

"U.S. protests Venezuela diplomatic cargo search"
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyID=2006-08-25T014331Z_01_N24471013_RTRUKOC_0_US-VENEZUELA-USA.xml&archived=False

Oh - and "diplomatic cargo," too. Interesting choice of words there, don't you think? They "violated diplomatic norms," not "They violated the Vienna Convention." ("diplomatic norms" = "we do whatever the damn hell we please"?). Nitpickey, perhaps. But makes you wonder...

on edit: ref. to Judi Lynn's post above

[Judi Lynn]

32. Miami Herald:U.S. protests seizure of envoy's belongings in Venezuela

Posted on Fri, Aug. 25, 2006
U.S. protests seizure of envoy's belongings in Venezuela
Miami Herald Wire Services

CARACAS - Venezuelan National Guard troops seized the belongings of a U.S diplomat Thursday en route to the U.S. Embassy in Caracas, an embassy official said.

Brian Penn told the local Globovisión television news channel he believed that National Guardsmen took the container where the diplomat was bringing his household property into the country at or near the international airport about 18 miles south of Caracas earlier Thursday and had not yet returned it to U.S. embassy officials.

''The embassy of the United States has protested this move by the security forces of the Venezuelan government,'' said Penn, noting that embassy officials had informed the U.S. State Department of the incident.

U.S. embassy officials could not immediately be reached for additional comment.

Mari Pili Hernández, Venezuela's deputy foreign minister for North America, confirmed that National Guard troops took the diplomatic container and were reviewing its contents because it hadn't been inspected by Venezuelan customs officials at the airport as required.
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/15355922.htm

[Judi Lynn]

33. Dirty charges against Venezuela by U.S. ambassador Hertell:

August, 24 - 2:11 PM
Venezuela defies the U.S. to prove claim of drugs dropped on Dominican soil

SANTO DOMINGO.- Venezuela’s ambassador in the country today invited United States ambassador Hans Hertell to show evidences that most small planes which come from his nation airdrop drugs on Dominican territory.

Francisco Belisario Landis said that Hertell’s declarations has cast doubts on the Venezuela military and police’s day-to-day operability is the war against drug trafficking.

He said that he is unaware of the observation methods and operational statistics used to make for the statement by ambassador Hertell, who on Tuesday declared that most of the small planes which airdrop drugs on Dominican territory come from Venezuela.

Hertell, interviewed during a visit to the Justice Ministry, said that the activity constitutes a true threat for the Dominican Republic and any democracy of the world.
(snip/...)

http://www.dominicantoday.com/app/article.aspx?id=16780



Hans Hertell



Secretary Powell (center) with U.S. Ambassador Hans H. Hertell to the Dominican
Republic (left) and Guest of Honor Emilio Estefan, Founder and Former member of
"Miami Sound Machine" (right)

(State Department photo by Mike Gross)

[Peace Patriot]

35. Airport Security! Terra, terra, terra! Fear, fear, fear! Touche, Bush!

A country can't be too careful what known terrorists sneak off their airplanes in their "diplomatic luggage."

[donkeyotay]

36. Looks like the Decider's going to have to work this weekend

See, we don't inspect our cargo, so see here, what the Mercan people need to know is, Venuzuala can't spect theirs. Turkey can't pre-empt, neither can Venuzuala. We're losing patience and we might not mind too much if Chavez was overthrowed, but that's no reason to go all pre-emptive. We can spy and meddle, Venezuala can't. And they'd better not torture our diplomats neither. Uzbekistan can torture. Venezuala can't. I'm the Decider...

[Up2Late]

37. UPDATE: Venezuela says US was smuggling (BBC)

Saturday, 26 August 2006, 04:56 GMT 05:56 UK

Venezuela says US was smuggling

The authorities in Venezuela have accused the US embassy in Caracas of importing cargo illegally after halting lorries carrying diplomatic baggage.

Cargo found arriving at Caracas airport included parts for military aircraft ejector seats and chicken meat, said Interior Minister Jesse Chacon.

"Everything that doesn't pass through customs is contraband, we are talking about contraband here," he said. Denying wrongdoing, the US demanded to know why diplomatic cargo was searched.

"The impounded cargo consisted of household effects of a US diplomat and a shipment of commissary goods," said US state department spokesman Edgar Vasquez. The search, he added, had violated long-established procedures.

"We have requested an immediate explanation of the entire incident," he said. Relations between Washington and Caracas have long been strained with Venezuela accusing the Americans of not respecting its sovereignty and the US viewing the leftist government of President Hugo Chavez with growing suspicion.

(more at link) <http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5288214.stm>

[Sgent]

40. Vienna Convention -- Venezula broke it

Article 50 EXEMPTION FROM CUSTOMS DUTIES AND INSPECTION

The receiving State shall, in accordance with such laws and regulations as it may adopt, permit entry of and grant exemption from all customs duties, taxes, and related charges other than charges for storage, cartage and similar services, on:

articles for the official use of the consular post;

articles for the personal use of a consular officer or members of his family forming part of his household, including articles intended for his establishment. The articles intended for consumption shall not exceed the quantities necessary for direct utilization by the persons concerned.

Consular employees shall enjoy the privileges and exemptions specified in paragraph 1 of this Article in respect of articles imported at the time of first installation.

Personal baggage accompanying consular officers and members of their families forming part of their households shall be exempt from inspection. It may be inspected only if there is serious reason to believe that it contains articles other than those referred to in sub-paragraph (b) of paragraph 1 of this Article, or articles the import or export of which is prohibited by the laws and regulations of the receiving State or which are subject to its quarantine laws and regulations. Such inspection shall be carried out in the presence of the consular officer or member of his family concerned. .

[Kailassa]

41. And since when did lorry loads of equipment

including "parts for military ejector seats, qualify as personal baggage???

Sorry, America, as usual, broke it.

[Taverner]

43. Besides, didn't Chimpy say Geneva was "irrelevant"?

[Sgent]

44. They aren't

but under the article Venezuala has 2 options:

1) Refuse it entry sight unseen
2) Inspect it with the consulate / family member present.

Confiscating it and inspecting it out of the presense of the consulate officials is a clear violation.

[Kailassa]

46. What nonsense, Your own quote disproved what you say here.

"Personal baggage accompanying consular officers and members of their families forming part of their households shall be exempt from inspection. It may be inspected only if there is serious reason to believe that it contains articles other than those referred to in sub-paragraph (b) of paragraph 1 of this Article, or articles the import or export of which is prohibited by the laws and regulations of the receiving State or which are subject to its quarantine laws and regulations. Such inspection shall be carried out in the presence of the consular officer or member of his family concerned."

Notice these words: "It may be inspected"?

Now what do they mean to you?

Besides, lorry-loads of military parts are not legitimate "personal baggage".

The Americans (to no-one's surprise) abused their position, and only spmeone
sharing their morality would be covering for them here.

[zann725]

45. That squirrel-y Chavez...treats others like he is treatred. US officials

are NOT above investigation., like average citizen, when traveling.

[Master of Disaster]

47. In anyone surprised? Chavez has no respect for diplomatic protocol.