Worse than Katrina

[sabra]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N18410596.htm

WORSE THAN KATRINA


MIAMI, Aug 22 (Reuters) - If you thought the sight of the great American jazz city New Orleans flooded to the eaves -- its people trapped in attics or cowering on rooftops -- was the nightmare hurricane scenario, think again.

Max Mayfield, director of the U.S. National Hurricane Center, says there's plenty of potential for a storm worse than Hurricane Katrina which killed 1,339 people along the U.S. Gulf coast and caused some $80 billion in damage last August.

"People think we have seen the worst. We haven't," Mayfield told Reuters in an interview at the fortress-like hurricane center in Florida.

"I think the day is coming. I think eventually we're going to have a very powerful hurricane in a major metropolitan area worse than what we saw in Katrina and it's going to be a mega-disaster. With lots of lost lives," Mayfield said.

[snappyturtle]

1. This is not good news for sure.

I've been listening to Washington Journal the last two days about the Katrina recovery.
If it wasn't obvious before it certainly is now that the people "in charge" don't have a clue what they are doing. I can only imagine the scenario if an even bigger hurricane should hit the U.S. Their incompetence has bred incapability. OR, put on your tin foil hat: Maybe they don't WANT to fix NO....or at least not the part where the poorer people reside.

[Doremus]

2. I'll join you in the tinfoil. Especially after watching Spike Lee's

documentary last night.

You weren't paying attention if that thought didn't enter your mind, if only for a moment.

[damntexdem]

27. Acts I and II were superb -- we'll see the rest tonight.

I've already noted the RW sniping at Lee's documentary. Well, the truth hurts, and it especially pains the RW.

[alfredo]

9. NO was a Democratic stronghold. The Republicans want to

remake it in their image.

[snappyturtle]

11. Good point. nt

[hedgehog]

13. It seems that everyone wants to keep the entertainment section

and the big buildings downtown and scrap the rest. The perfect city from a suburbanite point of view - all amenities and none of those pesky problems that come with people.

[alfredo]

15. The Disenification of New Orleans.

[SoCalDem]

30. Disney meets Stepford..(wrote this last year)

Hey, "I'm goin' to Dieseland"..(formerly known as N'Awlins)

(under new management)

So much to see..so much to do.. Your family will remember the trip for years ...



Toxicland...(exciting display..ride in your own hazmat-mobile)

Petro-Village...(an amazing amalgamation of pipes and intricate maze of oil tanks)

Pirates of the French Quarter..(must be "this tall" to enter)

The USS FEMA (fun for the kiddies....must bring own provisions)

Georgie's Fishin' Hole..EVERYBODY catches a fish..no poles necessary..just scoop one up (they're specially trained to float and to be very still for the kiddies)..then run on down to the Fry Shack, and they'll cook it right up for you.. (sponsored by Mobil/Chevron)

Dubya Gump's Wild Shrimp Ride..(fun for young and old..just don't eat the shellfish)

W's Dumbo Gumbo House...featuring glow in the dark oysters, oiled pelican,Texaco Tea, and the house specialty.."all the better to see you" 3-eyed snapper..

Carpetbagger Cafe....featuring a fabulous $10 mini-burger..(freedom fries are only $5 extra) Bottled Iridescent Bayou Water only $4.50..(don't ask for the recipe..it's a secret)

Bab's Oatmeal Hut...Everyone always said she looked like the Quaker Oats guy..Grab up a bowl of steaming hot cajun oatmeal...then Make a RUN for the porta potties..

Beads R Us....Authentic BK beads (before Katrina)..Buy 'em by the handful, or string 'em together for your own souvenir..(Keep away from children..a choking and poison hazard)

Sign up for the GrayLine Tour of "Old N'Awlins"..Respirator and protective clothing included..... Includes a side trip to the Nature preserve (waders included also)..Camera not necessary ...the animals are still "evacuated").. Picture postcards of the former wildlife are available in the gift shoppe at the end of the tour.


And for the finale...don't miss the moonlight cruise across lake Ponchartrain at dusk.....But..be sure to Pick a speedy boat.. the trick is to make it to the other side before the boat disintegrates.. Don't quite make it?? Don't worry..Just grab on to one of the many simulated roofs in the lake, and hang on until the USS FEMA comes to get you..

[alfredo]

40. that's really good.

[damntexdem]

26. We do need to be prepared for worse storms.

But under Dubya, we are not prepared for even lesser storms. When FEMA was in capable hands, it did fairly well in its needed work -- after the catastrophes had occurred. Under Dubya, FEMA was meant to fail, and succeeded in doing so.

[Brotherjohn]

3. Those stupid people. Why are they living in Miami (or Houston, or...

... Charleston, or Jacksonville, or...)? :sarcasm:

[dipsydoodle]

4. You need one to hit a major city

for people to sit up and acknowledge that warmer oceans = stronger hurricanes.

[CottonBear]

5. NOLA is-was a major American city.

Yet, there are still many, many people here in the USA who do not want to understand global climate change and its consequences.

[dipsydoodle]

6. I appreciate that New Orleans is a major city.

I meant one further north away from the usual destruction zone.

[CottonBear]

10. Gotcha. Maybe Boston, Philly or NYC would get some attention.

I recently saw a particularly terrifying TV show about what might happen if a category 4 or higher hurricane made landfall in a large northeast coast city. Computer models of the possible flooding and destruction were created for a city like NYC.
:scared:

edit: sp.

[dipsydoodle]

12. No harm wished upon their citizens

but yes those are cities I had in mind. Your public needs a strong wake up call and it's quite tragic that something like that would be necessary to achieve it. Same applies to London really - wouldn't actually take too much to flood central London given that it 15 feet below sea level anyway.

[CottonBear]

16. Isn't there a Thames River Gateway flood control structure

that protects London? I know that the Netherlands has a massive flood control system and so does the city of Venice. It is such a damn shame that NOLA was allowed to flood. It was preventable disaster.

My sister in-law moved back into her home a few months ago. She lives just north of NOLA in St. Tammany Parrish. Her home, by some miracle, wasn't flooded but the house sustained major tree and water damage and the surrounding areas of Lacombe and Slidell were devastated. The bottom floor of her cousin's house in Slidell was flooded and now the cousin lives in a travel trailer. :(

Do you get hurricanes or similar large storms there in Great Britain? I have been there to visit but I was only in London and Dover to catch the ferry across the channel. The weather was warm and sunny when I was there in September a number of years ago! I had expected lots of rain.

[dipsydoodle]

24. Flood control system - Thames barrier.

CottonBear - Go here : http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/regions/thames/323150/335688/341764/
then click on the first link. That describes the circumstances with which it's designed to cope . That is basically 3 events occuring simultaeneously which would flood London. The barrier, as best possible, locks out the combined effect of two of those events i.e coincidental low air pressure and spring tide. However - rising average sea levels may not have been accounted for and an increase would eventually defeat the barrier.

We do get large storms which if coincident with continuous heavy rain can cause bad flooding in particular parts of the UK particularly when soft ground saturates. Most recent baddy was this one : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3572360.stm Fortunately it was in daylight and nobody got killed. One which occured for identical reasons back in 1952 was far more tragic : http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/16/newsid_2960000/2960180.stm that happened in the dark. Lynmouth is so pretty it defies description. I appreciate that these examples are not on the scale of New Orleans. We have had incidents in the past where North Seas storms have washed away seaside villages overnight.

Little occurence here of hurricane force winds but this storm which was hurricane force hit London in 1987 : http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/education/secondary/students/1987.html It killed 18 people and took down 15 million trees. Trees without deep roots were literally sucked out of the ground by the low air pressure - they jumped up and own until they fell over.

In reality we get very little rain - London's rain is a fairy story.

So sorry to hear about your sister and I do hope she's gradually getting straight.

[CottonBear]

28. Why thank you! I will bookmark those links.

I work with engineers in the areas of environmental planning so this information is something very interesting to me.

My sister-in-law is back in her house and all is ell with her. It will, however, be a long road back for the entire Gulf Coast region. My (actually my horse's) equine chiropractor lost his home in Biloxi. All that was left was a concrete slab foundation. Now FEMA and the insurance companies are giving him the run-around. There is still no house rebuilt or insurance payouts. At least he and his wife escaped with their lives, their computers, their cars and their small airplane (he flys around the Southeast on business.) He still has his work which is a good thing.

[dipsydoodle]

31. Anyhting you want to know in the future

of a similar nature drop me a line though the DU mail system.

[savemefromdumbya]

17. could easily make landfall in DC or Atlantic City or Baltimore....

[Virginia Dare]

41. DC is somewhat buffered by the Chesapeake Bay...

but disastrous flooding and of course strong winds and/or multiple tornadoes, etc. could cause major damage. Just this past June we had over a foot of rain fall in the span of a week and several big federal buildings had to be closed because of water damage. Many homes in the area were also flooded.

Worst case scenario would be for a cat 4 or 5 to come right up the Potomac. Then Katy bar the door. This is the track that both Isabel and Agnes took--Isabel was just below a category 1 when it hit several years ago, and there was alot of damage from falling trees, Agnes caused more flooding damage. Neither one of those were hurricane strength by the time they hit though.

I don't think it would obliterate the city to the scale of say, Miami or Boston which sit right on the coast, but you never know.

[savemefromdumbya]

50. Yes Isabel took 5 trees down in our yard

[Brotherjohn]

18. You mean like... THIS?

(Okay, it'll probably veer north, and not end up being that strong. I'm just saying...)
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT04/refresh/AL0406W5+gif/151151W_sm.gif

[AnneD]

49. Dare I hope ....

Washington, DC. We here in Houston have had that thought cross our minds since Katrina. Some folks need to remember,'there but for the grace of God go I.'

[Xenotime]

22. Where are they?

There has only been three tropical storms this year as compared to 2005.

[mccoyn]

7. New Orleans was below sea level.

If a storm hit Miami or Houston the flood would recede and relief efforts can begin the next day. That means most of the deaths caused by the storm would have to occur in the first few hours, caused by the wind and the storm surge.

[geomon666]

14. Not necessarily.

As was the case with Wilma, week and sometimes even month long power outage has the potential to cause many deaths. There were no flood waters for Wilma and the response was still criminally pathetic at best.

[dipsydoodle]

25. Not quite so

Major flooding always causes sewers to blow back and it takes ages to clear up the mess.

Apart from that relief efforts in New Orleans should have started just as soon as the storm passed. We all know that didn't happen.

[Bridget Burke]

33. Houston is 30 miles inland.

A big storm would cause serious destruction to areas nearer the Gulf--but most people would evacuate the dangerous areas. (Far too many people evacuated before Rita; even if we'd had a direct hit, most of them would NOT have been in danger.)

Houston would get widespread damage here--trees down, etc. Some people would lose power for weeks. Any flood water would recede quickly.

[KamaAina]

43. Parts of it are, parts of it are not

Enough with the "was", already. If N.O. no longer existed, I'd have sent two or three emails to nowhere already this week. :P None of them have bounced...

Paradoxically, the highest ground, relatively speaking, is along the Mississippi (up to five whole feet above!) and along the immediate shoreline of Lake Pontchartrain. It slopes backward from there into a "bowl", which explains why the water stood there for so long.

[omega minimo]

8. The difference being: Katrina NOLA lack of response was GENOCIDE

:evilfrown:

[jseankil]

21. Genocide? Oh jesus, come on! /nm

nm

[omega minimo]

29. Yes, many Americans are in denial about it

Do you think that story would have been the same if those were white people :wow:

[Bacchus39]

39. like the ones that got hit in Mississippi by Katrina?

New Orleans wasn't the only area affected.

[omega minimo]

45. so................?

[earth mom]

44. Yes it was!

The bastards! :grr:

[anotherdrew]

19. anyone else find it odd that all hurricanes this year have been pacific?

odd that there hasn't even been one hurricane yet this year and august is almost over.

[rmgarrette64]

20. It's Bush's Fault!

Karl Rove is deliberately depressing Atlantic hurricanes this year in order to boost Republican chances in November. This just shows he could have done this last year, but deliberately sacrificed New Orleans.

</sarcasm>

R. Garrett

[thecrow]

35. Remember! Karl Rove is in charge of the reconstrustion!

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006547.php

"The president has put Karl Rove in charge of the reconstruction, with a budget of a couple HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS."

And what became of that I wonder?

[nashville_brook]

37. welcome to DU -- i've been welcoming a LOT of newbies

today.

I see you take umbrage at Bush shouldering anything resembling responsibility for LOCKING DOWN New Orleans well after the storm had passed.

that's people died. you know that, don't you?

but, you're concerned with Bush being wrongly accused of something... am i reading that right?

[rmgarrette64]

47. No, just a poor attempt at a joke

Sorry about that, the humor doesn't read as well when it's in text as it did when it was in my head. Just meant as a small poke, at myself and others, who tend to see political conspiracy everywhere. Nothing more than that.

I'll try to leave the humor to those who are good at it (at least until I have another idea for one, which tends to overcome any good sense on my part...)

R. Garrett

[anotherdrew]

48. I got the joke, and make the same one myself often

red light? bush's fault.
too rainy? bush
too sunny? bush
sold of of TP at the quickymart? totally bush's fault
the eventual heat death of the universe? personally, I blame bush.
to hell with bush

Let him serve for generations to come as our all purpose whipping boy and boogie monster.

[semillama]

23. not so odd when you consider that peak hurricane season

falls between late August and October. Still, some scientists think that the massive disturbances caused by the hurricanes last year stirred up the water enough in the gulf to mitigate any high temperature spikes this year, if I recall correctly. Don't remember where I read that.

[rayofreason]

32. hurricane outlook

Here is some info that might be of interest - cooler sea temperatures and a below average season.

http://www.weatherstreet.com/hurricane/2006/hurricane-atlantic-2006-below-normal-season.htm

[nomo]

34. Feel the DOOM!!!! n/t

[nashville_brook]

36. as if New Orleans ISN'T a "major city" -- what they REALLY

meant to say was A Major White City.

[goclark]

38. And might that hurricane be in a place like Detroit nt

[Mabus]

42. Officially the death toll is 1,833+

The 1,833 number is from a report generated last week by the National Hurricane Center. See page 11 this pdf document: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pdf/TCR-AL122005_Katrina.pdf

The total number of fatalities known, as of this writing, to be either directly or indirectly related to Katrina is 1833, based on reports to date from state and local officials in five states: 1577 fatalities in Louisiana, 238 in Mississippi, 14 in Florida, 2 in Georgia, and 2 in Alabama. The total number of fatalities directly related to the forces of Katrina is estimated to be about 1500 spread across four states, with about 1300 of these in Louisiana, about 200 in Mississippi, 6 in Florida, and one in Georgia. Especially for Louisiana and Mississippi, the number of direct fatalities is highly uncertain and the true number will probably not ever be known. As of this writing, several hundred persons are still reported missing in association with Katrina, so it is possible the death toll could grow beyond current estimates.

Presumably, most of the deaths in Louisiana were directly caused by the widespread storm surge-induced flooding and its miserable aftermath in the New Orleans area. However, several indirect fatalities in Louisiana have been confirmed or are suspected, and some deaths included in the total might not be related to Katrina at all. Louisiana also reports that persons of more than 60 years of age constituted the majority of the Katrina-related fatalities among its residents. The vast majority of the fatalities in Mississippi probably were directly caused by the storm surge in the three coastal counties. In Florida, three of the direct fatalities were caused by downed trees in Broward County, and the three others were due to drowning in Miami-Dade County. Two deaths were also reported in Georgia, with one directly caused by a tornado and the other occurring in a car accident indirectly related to the storm. Alabama reported two indirect fatalities in a car accident during the storm. Despite the fact that inland fresh water floods produced the majority of fatalities due to tropical cyclones during the past few decades, Katrina provides a grim reminder that storm surge poses the greatest potential cause for large loss of life in a single hurricane in this country.

It doesn't surprise me that Max Mayfield isn't up on the report generated by his own department since he, until recently, was one of those denying Global Warming.

[LynneSin]

46. We have been extremely luck so far

By this time last year we were on our 11th named tropical storm whereas this year we are only on our 4th.

But it just takes one, one category 5 to make landfall to create a disater that would make Katrina look mild

:cry:

I just pray our government on all levels are prepared for this. I know why the GOvernors are fighting for control of their national guards because too many NG are being shipped over to Iraq and not here at home ready to help out these national crisis