Italy offers to lead U.N. force for Lebanon

[Bacchus39]

looks like France is opting out.


BEIRUT (Reuters) - Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi said on Monday his country was ready to lead a U.N. force in south Lebanon, where shooting by Israeli troops at Hizbollah fighters showed the fragility of a week-old truce.

Prodi told reporters in Italy that he had informed U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who he said would make a final decision on the command of the force this weekend.

The Beirut government welcomed Italy's offer of 2,000 troops, the biggest commitment any country has yet made. Israel has already said it would be happy if Italy led the force.

Italy's right-wing opposition warned the deployment could prove a "kamikaze" mission.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060821/ts_nm/mideast_dc_280

[Joe for Clark]

1. Oh, great - we get Italy.

Joe

[termo]

2. the ceasefire is broken, they should stay home

no point to deploy a peace keeping mission, imo

[Joe for Clark]

6. Not a lot of difference, is there??

We're talking Italy.

If this was a kickball game, they'd be that last kid you pick for your team.

Joe

[ShortnFiery]

3. Cool! Doesn't Benito Mussolini have a Grand Daughter still in politics?

Yes, Alessandra Mussolini is every bit as bat-shit-crazy right-wing as our USA neo-conservatives.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-763.html

Alessandra Mussolini, a member of a right wing party just welcomed into Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi’s coalition, made the derogatory comments on a TV chat show in Italy.

Reuters reported that she praised her ancestral ties to "Il Duce", and felt it was “better to be a fascist than a faggot."


How 'bout we put Allessandra Mussolini in charge of the Peace Keeping forces in Southern Lebanon ... OH! don't forget to assign Karen Hughes as her XO (Executive Officer). :puke:

I'm sure everything will turn out Fascist!

Fabulously "Fascist being much better than Fagots" complements of one each, Alessandra Mussolini! :eyes:

Why do I feel like breaking out into a Mel Brooks "show tune"? :P

[shain from kane]

5. But will they be able to run the trains on time?

http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.htm


Edited to add reference.

[ShortnFiery]

7. I doubt it ... fascists tend to become over-confident ...

and over-extended. They destroy themselves and each other ... the rest of us "mere mortals" just have to stay out of their way. :(

On Edit: Thanks for the reference - comprende, Si :-)

[leesa]

8. I don't think Prodi is a fascist. Are you thinking of their previous

leader? Look, no one wants the job because they know it will likely become a bloodbath. Israel has already broken the ceasefire and is gearing up for more.

[ShortnFiery]

19. It was a poor attempt at levity

I was referring to Allessandra Mussolini, Benito's Grand daughter. :P

And yeah, she's FAR Right Wing politically ... bordering on FASCIST. :hi:

[Solo_in_MD]

34. which describes Chirac well

[Joe for Clark]

11. Italy changed sides so much in WWII there heads must still

be swaying -

Yeah, a Mel Brooks show tune sounds right to me.

Joe

[Flagg]

12. There's no need for Italian bashing, man

[Joe for Clark]

13. I'm not - just honest.

Would anyone really want Italy on their side??

Joe

[AlamoDemoc]

16. Your lack of understanding Italian politics is nothing shorter than

sturdiness ignorance.

[Joe for Clark]

17. Really he (or she) was just being sarcastic.

Pretty funny, in such a sad way.

Thats all.

Joe

[AlamoDemoc]

18. I suppose the gentleman forgot his sarcasm emote...lol

[ShortnFiery]

21. Exactly, except I am a lady. :-)

And yes, forgive me for not IDing with <tongue-in-cheek> or :sarcasm:

I have great respect for Italy but I do know that SOME of the descendants of Mussolini are a little whacked.

I have NO right to judge Italy, because we (USA) have the biggest embarrassment in our Country's history at the helm now, so you're welcome to fire back.

I meant no disrespect to Italy in general ... each Nation has their political embarrassments. :hi:

P.S. I thought when I identified assigning Karen Hughes as her XO, the cat was out of the bag with regard to sarcasm. But I forget, there's so much emotion surrounding many issues. Regrets.

[Joe for Clark]

22. I think it was clear - and I don't know how to do that sarcasicm

symbol either.

Joe

[AlamoDemoc]

25. I think it was pure nonsense on her part as she already omitted...

however I would like the mods remove such vile from the thread.

[ShortnFiery]

26. I explained myself and no, my sarcasm of Mussolini is not VILE

because it was about a SPECIFIC person, not Italy, in general.

Did you click on the link?

I will let my words stand.

I sincerely doubt, given in the context and explanation, that they should be deleted.

However, we'll leave that up to the powers that be.

Really, I mean you, nor the image of Italy no harm. :shrug:

[AlamoDemoc]

27. I have nothing against you putting down on Mussolini

but I have problem your earlier post lumping up together of all Italians as supporting Mussolini granddaughter...of course she had anything to do with her grandfathers' killings.

[ShortnFiery]

29. Wha? I did no such thing, you are assuming this ...

really ... because I bring up a topic for sarcasm does NOT automatically suggest that All Italians Support Her.

With true respect, Lighten Up, lest you always be upset. There are many personalities that look at events from different angles, including sarcastic. If you take those comments as an affront, you will be miserable most of your time here.

Let it go because I did not mean ANY of what you posted above ... and you should not have assumed I did, if for no other reason this piece was PURE satire. REALLY, Karen Hughes as Mussolini's XO. Please! :rofl:

Pure Satire! Even in serious pieces, when clearly ID'd as such, some people appreciate and it should not be censored.

Heil Satire!

[AlamoDemoc]

32. I understand were your coming from

I think your earlier thinking is now null and void and I appreciate your
understanding of it. thanks

[ShortnFiery]

33. Okie Dokie

:shrug: Whatever that will keep us respectful of each other, but I honestly don't understand (:wtf:).

Never Mind. :hi:

[MrPrax]

39. Oh no...

You were doing so well...

Your just too nice...

Meow

[ShortnFiery]

43. Thank you

I had no idea you cared MrPrax.

And yes, thanks for noticing - I do try "my level best" to be basically civil toward others.

Maybe it's because I'm a dog person that I don't fully appreciate your message.

Woof.

[Joe for Clark]

30. We got the sarcasim. Mostly.

Joe

[shain from kane]

4. Previously occupied by the Romans. What's next, Ethiopia? n/t

[Joe for Clark]

9. Very funny.

[tocqueville]

10. good luck Italy, you'll need it

besides the fact that Italy isn't going to "occupy" South Lebanon, this is mostly a posture. Historically Italy has a tendency to "jump" on offers but it's going to be very tough for them even if they could implement it rapidly, which most European military observers doubt.

Besides the mandate is changing. Now the US wants us to "disarm the Hizbollah" :

see my post here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1955340&mesg_id=1955340

my guess is that either Europe goes in WITHOUT UN mandate like they did in Bosnia, or the force remains symbolic, which allows Israel to attack again (Olmert talked about a "second round"), which is of course exactly what the PNAC wants...

and this time "the decider" has been put aside. It took exactly one hour, following the press releases.

and please skip the "Mussolini" comparisons, Italy is a mature democracy despite the Berlusconi episode.

[pinto]

14. Geez. I say give them a try. Seems the UN guidelines for deployment

are in flux, France has had second thoughts, the ceasefire is no ceasefire, we can't and shouldn't do it, the UN is intent to provide some sort of buffer force allied with the Lebanese army and the world agrees a real time break in the killing has to happen.

If Italy's an option, I think the UN needs to take a look at them, whether it gets to the ground or no.

Even though the goals of all this seem to get muddier and muddier, some time and distance between bullets, bombs and bodies would be a good thing.

[tocqueville]

15. thank you Pinto

sometimes I wonder on what kind of forum I am...

[Joe for Clark]

20. Hopefully a realistic forum.

If Italy is the best option - we are probably in a world of s*it.

Joe

[tocqueville]

28. The Italians have been /are excellent in Kosovo

and survived Iraq (32 casualties). Probably the "same" guys are to be sent. Ask Wesley Clark what he thinks about the Italians, he probably wouldn't share your opinion.

[Joe for Clark]

31. Maybe not.

And surely no one will ever accuse me of agreeing with them 100% of the time.

Joe

[Bacchus39]

23. oh no, I applaud Italy for stepping up

a difficult task for sure.

[Joe for Clark]

24. You know you are right -

But boy I sure wouldn't want to count on them to save me either.

Joe

[Solo_in_MD]

35. They can do no worse that the current French lead UNIFIL has done

And fresh leadership from the EU side is well overdue.

[rodeodance]

36. at least they have 'peacekeepers' as a name vs 'liberators/occupiers"

[Palladin]

37. Whoever goes needs to be ready and able to fight

the Israelis as well as Hezbollah. They need plenty of SAMs and Stingers (or equivalent), and it needs to be some nation with its own fighter aircraft to keep the IAF out of Lebanese airspace. Very few qualify. The Italians have the Giuseppe Garibaldi with 16 Harrier -type jump jets. The French have the Charles de Gaulle, with 40 Rafale attack fighters, which could hold their own against the IAF F-16s. There definitely needs to be a "robust" mechanism not only for managing Hezbollah, but for punishing Israel for any further aggression.

[Joe for Clark]

38. Would you really want Italy (or France) on your wing here??

And I sure don't think the French could hold their own against the Israeli air force in any event.

One thing for sure about Israel - they have a hell of an air force - their only match is American.

Joe

[Palladin]

40. I agree.

The only match for the IAF are our own carrier-based F-18 Hornets and the USAF F-15s, F-16s, and F-22s. It won't happen until this country itself breaks up. into the factions who want to keep on coddling and enabling Israel, and those who would like to kick its bloody arrogant ass - including more than you would believe in the present US military. The behavior of Israel, the complicity of this addled President, and of this craven Congress in this summer's bloody fiasco have brought that day of imperial disintegration closer.
I suppose we should be grateful....

There are other ways of restraining Israel however, if a President had the courage and will to use them. Eisenhower forced the Israelis to back off in the Suez Crisis of 1956 by threatening to freeze their assets. Reagan made a simple phone call to Begin in 1982, telling him he had gone too far in invading Beirut.
But....we have a deluded, ignorant fool as "President" these days. Very dangerous for all of us. Armies and nations come apart when led by fools. Ours will be no different.

[Joe for Clark]

41. I am not trying to fool myself about right and wrong -

I am just saying Israel has the second best air force to us - they really do.

They are very good. Hell, they were trained by us, they should be.

You comments Palladin are right on. What is going to happen now was dictated by events some months ago - they are going to happen.

Joe

[Joe for Clark]

42. You made me think -

All those years later, after the war in Europe - I dated girls whose fathers served in the Lutwaffe, you know - came to the US. And I think - My dad got along with them just fine. These guys killed some of his friends and tried their best to kill him back then - but after all those years there was a mutual respect. That respect didn't exist with RAF pilots children, but it did with those german kid's parents. It was always hard for me to understand.

It was a respect for the craft - the technical abilities of some of those "Nazi" pilots.

I only saw the big boobs of the girls I dated at the time, you know??

I guess I'm a little older now.

Joe

[Capt_Nemo]

44. sorry, but you're underestimating the french air force

The Rafale has recently kicked both F-15 and F-16 butt in exercises with the USAF, and is still
not equiped with what will be its definitive long range air-to-air weapon, the
ramjet powered Meteor missile. And the reason why the IAF can still be considered as roughly
matching the Armée de l'Air is because the ratio between F-15 and F-16 numbers is for now
higher than the Rafale/Mirage 2000-5 ratio in the french air force... for now..
Then there are the AWACS: the E-3F Sentry and the E-2F Hawkeye
And if the french wanted they could wipe out IAF air bases in a first strike, using their
stealthy cruise missiles SCALP (A.K.A. Storm Shadow) and APACHE (specialized in the
destruction of runways).
The reason why the UN won't clear up the confusion about the mandate is because the US is
trying to shield Israel from geting exposed to a situation where a robust mandate would
give the french and their allies a license to bomb anyone who targets the peacekeepers
to kingdom come. For this reason the US and the french are at odds about the mandate,
and the french are bloody well right in refusing to commit troops in these conditions!