Mutiny on Flight 613 (UK-Passengers Mutiny till 2 Asian Men Kicked Off)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770

British holidaymakers staged an unprecedented mutiny - refusing to allow their flight to take off until two men they feared were terrorists were forcibly removed.

The extraordinary scenes happened after some of the 150 passengers on a Malaga-Manchester flight overheard two men of Asian appearance apparently talking Arabic.

Passengers told cabin crew they feared for their safety and demanded police action. Some stormed off the Monarch Airlines Airbus A320 minutes before it was due to leave the Costa del Sol at 3am. Others waiting for Flight ZB 613 in the departure lounge refused to board it.

The incident fuels the row over airport security following the arrest of more than 20 people allegedly planning the suicide-bombing of transatlantic jets from the UK to America. It comes amid growing demands for passenger-profiling and selective security checks.

[babylonsister]

1. This is so wrong; so now people talk in a different language and

they're suspect? I'm not only disgusted with Americans anymore; it appears terra surrounds us.:eyes:

[ConcernedCanuk]

17. With the USA having bases in over 100 countries, terra DOES surround us!!!

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'nuff said

(sigh)

[babylonsister]

18. Expound, please. I'm an American and aghast at my country! nt

[BushOut06]

2. I'm sure the RW wingnuts will hail these men as heroes

Thanks a lot, Bush & Blair. This is the monster that you've created. Now Arabs, Muslims, and apparently even Asians can no longer feel safe at airports or on planes.

[DRoseDARs]

3. Isn't interferring with the flight crew a felony (at least in the US)?

Methinks the passengers doth protest too much.

I particularly love this quote:
"The trouble in Malaga flared last Wednesday as two British citizens in their 20s waited in the departure lounge to board the pre-dawn flight and were heard talking what passengers took to be Arabic. Worries spread after a female passenger said she had heard something that alarmed her."

That's utter brilliance right there. Not only were the passengers unable to tell whether or not it was Arabic the two were speaking, but this unnamed female passenger apparently spoke this mystery language fluently enough to know what was said. Gee, contradict and make shit up much? :eyes:

[babylonsister]

8. Stop the madness! Such bullshit! nt

[bullimiami]

10. the sky is falling.

[NYC]

4. Because they were speaking Arabic?

So, if we ban speaking Arabic on planes, will everyone be safe? Is thinking in Arabic acceptable?

...overheard two men of Asian appearance apparently talking Arabic...

On the other hand, maybe it wasn't Arabic. I guess we should abort all flights where someone thinks someone is speaking Arabic. That will make things safe.

...It also raised fears that more travellers will take the law into their own hands - effectively conducting their own 'passenger profiles'...

...two British women with young children on another flight from Spain complained about flying with a bearded Muslim even though he had been security-checked twice before boarding...

What a world.

[uppityperson]

5. interesting reading other news on this incident

most of them say they do not know what they were doing except acting suspiciously. Several do not say they got to fly later.

Asian men, looking at their watches while they wait for the plane, speaking non-English, wearing jackets. Okay. They were quiet when removed from plane, probably knew if they raised a fit over bigotry they would end up in jail.

[DRoseDARs]

6. Or dead by "mob justice" n/t

[bowens43]

7. And neo-con idiots wonder why they hate us.

Everyone of those bastards should have been thrown off the plane.

[Tanuki]

9. The plane should have

taken off as scheduled with the two "Asian appearing" persons and left the mutineers sitting in the lounge in Malaga figuring out "Plan B" for getting back to Manchester, and no refund.

[geomon666]

11. This is absolutely disgusting.

What a world we live in. At least they were compensated in some way.

Mr Schofield, 40, an area sales manager, said: "When the men were taken off they didn't argue or say a word. They just picked up their coats and obeyed the police. They seemed resigned to the fact they were under suspicion.

Better men than I. If it was me, I would stood up, turned to these 'people', and told em exactly what I thought of them.

[silverojo]

12. In all fairness, this part IS pretty suspicious:

"Passengers noticed that, despite the heat, the pair were wearing leather jackets and thick jumpers and were regularly checking their watches."

No sane person dresses like that in August. And why *were* they checking their watches frequently? If these guys didn't want to be singled out, they shouldn't have dressed in such a bizarre fashion. Hell, I'm white and speak English, but if I wore a leather jacket in August and went on a plane, a lot of people would be pretty freaked out at the sight of me, too.

When you consider that there was a scare just a little while ago, it's normal for people to be pretty edgy for a while afterward. So what if they weren't behaving rationally? We Americans were pretty irrational after 9/11, too, which allowed the Bush administration to lead most people into believing in his "war on terror". Sure, we're thinking more rationally now, but at the time, we were all pretty freaked out over an attack on American soil.

Instead of throwing the blame at fearful people, why not put the blame squarely where it belongs: On the shoulders of people like Osama bin Laden and the whole Al Quaida hee-haw gang, whom Bush was supposed to be going after in the first place (before he decided an illegal war for oil was more important). :mad:

[niyad]

14. let's put the blame squarely where it belongs--on the deliberate fear-

mongering of the lying thugs of this maladministration.

[DRoseDARs]

15. And if they'd dressed gothic, worn trench coats, or been in drag?

Some folks are truly firghtened of kids sporting dyed-green spikey hair. Should they be kicked from the plane too? What about impatient business men? Don't they check their watches frequently and occasionally get erm...impatient when things aren't timely? Do they get a pass from you for their frequent watch-checking as long as they're wearing business suits? Terrorists take note: Don't dress to blend, dress to impress.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

55. they've known that for years

i mean hell look at the last pics of Atta, he's wearing Corporate 101 Gear.

It's partially the "look at the big coat!!!" thinking that got us into this mess.

If anything, the above poster is instructive in what not to think. Of course, that kind of fear has its own exploitative qualities that the * admin harnesses so well they would never discourage it in favor, of - oh I don't know - calmness and rationality.

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. No sane person dresses like that in August.? depends where you live

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Warm clothes are common up here in August(we consider ourselves "sane" Thank You very much)

AND

It depends on your destination,

You must also consider that there is a weight restriction on luggage, NOT on what you wear - and leather coats are heavy compared to most other clothing

If they got on the plane, then they must have gone through security with all that metal detection, search and x-ray stuff.

These "fearful" people are responding to the PNACer's agenda -

So when they do another MIHOP or LIHOP

The voters will gobble it all down like they have for the two previous (s)elections - -

But I's jus a Canuk

What could I possibly know . . .

[SquireJons]

21. um... right

And along those lines, I'd like to add that if we abort all black babies, the crime rate would go down. Thanks for your rational thinking, Mr. Bennett.

Sorry, but bigotry, paranoia and hatred are not legitimate expressions of concern for safety, regardless of the situation.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

23. Checking watches while waiting for a plane? OMG!!!!!

how DARE they do such a thing? Checking watch while waiting for a plane, waiting on a plane, ...

By the way, don't think it is spelled "Quaida", leave out the "u". And another by the way, how about throwing blame on Mr.bush's shoulders, he who ignored warnings and pushed UK police to bust those guys last week before they had enough evidence.

[dipsydoodle]

24. Rubbish - clothes not suspicious at all

"No sane person dresses like that in August" ?

Lots of people wear clothes rather than pack them - reduces baggage weight. This may increase further with the reduced hand lauggage size here in Europe.

In the late eighties my daughter was a nanny in Paris returning to London occassionally. She wore everything she needed and just took hand luggage. Given that she weighed less than 8 stone she usually looked like a Michelin advert whilst travelling. Coincidently she'd mentioned the clothes aspect a couple of days ago in context with reduced hand luggage.

Aside from that, assuming it to still be the case , leathers and jumpers were always far cheaper in Spain and so it made sense to buy them there and wear them back.

[Andrushka]

37. Exactly

And if they were from somewhere like Pakistan (BTW, "Asian" in the UK often refers to people from that part of the world), it's perfectly understandable. Anyone seen the daytime temps in Karachi at this time of year? Anyone seen the (usual) daytime temps in the UK at this time of year?

"No sane person dresses like that in August." Good grief. No sane person jumps to the conclusion that someone is a "terrorist" because of the clothes they wear.

[Lisa]

39. I was coming home from working in northern Ontario, in early September

I'd had to go up when there was still frost (June!) and had brought a fairly heavy coat with me. Someone else had filled up the overhead bin, and there was surveying equipment under my seat, so I had to sit on my parka for the flight home -- although the air conditioning was so intense that at one point I put it over myself. This would probably raise a few eyebrows today (Asian woman in a coat, lugging a large heavy box full of electronics ...)

The molecular biologist next to me had a cylinder of liquid nitrogen. It's a wonder they let him on the plane. (This was in the late 1980s, before they revamped the "dangerous substances" list.)

[jeffrey_X]

51. Not to mentinon AC in the airport and it gets cold at 37,000 feet.

...

[athena]

56. No kidding.

I live in Hawaii, and I always wear heavy sweaters when I fly, regardless of the season. It gets extremely cold on airplanes, especially on overnight flights. I feel sorry for the tourists who wear shorts and tank tops and catch colds before they even reach Hawaii. The airlines frequently run out of blankets, and in any case, those blankets are much too thin when you're trying to sleep with cold air blowing in your face.

And when I travel to a cold place in winter, I bring my overcoat with me on the plane, since it's impossible to fit that thing into my suitcase, especially on the way back. I also find it comfortable to sleep in. One winter, I was stuck at the airport in Istanbul for several hours, with my coat in my checked luggage, and I nearly froze to death.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. The plane was "due to leave the Costa del Sol at 3am"

so dressing like that might be quite normal. And consider the kind of weather in Manchester they were going back to: today's overnight low 14C (57F), daytime high 18C (64F). As already pointed out, with silly restrictions on the size of bag you can carry on, if you want a jacket handy, you'll probably have to wear it to get in on the plane.

No, those passengers were not just behaving irrationally, they were being prejudiced. They should have been left at Malaga, with the normal people, both the Asian men and the normal passengers who didn't prejudge people on the colour of their skin or a language, getting to fly home.

[NashVegas]

38. 64 F is a Little Warm for Leather Jackets and Thick Sweaters

To say nothing of how uncomfortable that would be on the plane. Even 57F is a little warm for that.

[DRoseDARs]

46. See, this is EXACTLY the thinking that prompted the mutiny...

Maybe it's too warm for you, but perhaps it was still too cold for the victims. I work with a pilates instructor that moved here to Reno from Southern California. When she first arrived she was FREEZING in the mornings, even though it was in the 50-60 range. She's doing much better now, but she still gets cold in the mornings and we're back in the 50-60 range as we head into Fall.

It's assinine for one to assume everyone has the same sensitivity to temperature.

[ima_sinnic]

27. "in all fairness"? riiight!

that's like saying, "I'm not a bigot, BUT ..."
I won't bother adding to the eloquent responses to your BULLSHIT post because they quite nicely sum up what I think and I don't think I can write anything that wouldn't be banned right now.

[brentspeak]

50. Good grief

The self-righteousness in response to the poster's post is nauseating.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

49. Please complete the following words:

"S-E-?-F
R-I-G-?-T-E-O-U-S"

[lgn19087]

32. I mostly agree with you

But I equally place the blame on people like bush, who use every opportunity to try to terrorize the people into submission. I certainly can't blame those people for doing that, with all the commotion about "Islamic Fascism" these days but the fact is, GWB has created this fear and done far more terrorizing than any terrorists have done.

[HuffleClaw]

36. suuuuuuuure

this reminds of how some people see black youths wearing sports team jerseys and decide it must mean they are in a gang. nice attempt to justify bigotry.

[Skittles]

42. I cannot imagine checking watches frequently at an airport

uh huh

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. People checking their watches in an airport?

What kind of person checks their watch at an airport?

[bluestateguy]

13. The British people are fearful, and Americans did this after 9/11

In the immediate days after 9/11 there were many anecdotes about Arabs being voted off of airplanes out of suspicion. That's sad and I don't condone it, but we also need to understand the fear that people feel.

[SquireJons]

19. Thought Police

I saw a piece in the New Your Times the other day about a new security program being tried at a number of U.S. airports that is based on "successful" anti-narcotics programs. In this program are members of the transportation industry's screening personnel who have taken a one week training class in identifying passengers who appear nervous. So now, things like looking at your watch, or being worried about missing a flight or an un-comfortableness with flying in general will get you detained, questioned and searched.

The personnel who are given this responsibility are not police officers, have no education in relation to their duties, and apparently don't have specific guidelines for what behavior they are supposed to be looking for. I wonder if they take you to "Room 101" for a little chat, a la 1984?

I'm all for safety in the transportation industry, but it seems to me that they are forgoing real safety measures, like air marshals, secure cockpits, or radiation detectors in favor of bigotry and fear mongering. All I can say is that I'm glad I'm a white, english speaking heterosexual male, cause in this brave new world... in this 'time of hope' as Condi has called it, anyone else is obviously an enemy of freedom. For all we know, any of the little brown people might be a vicious, god hating fascist bent on mass murder with a dirty bomb... and we wouldn't want the smoking gun to be in the form of a mushroom cloud, now would we? What a load of crap.

Good lord, I hate what this world is becoming.

[ima_sinnic]

28. as one who suffers from essential tremor, I display "signs of nervousness"

My head jitters up and down, and I have some difficulty controllling my right hand from trembling and cannot carry a coffee cup with it. These symptoms are hardly noticeable in routine day to day activities and when I am under no particular stress or anxiety. But in crowds, and especially when I am "nervous about being nervous," the head-bobbing starts. It has been described to me as "inappropriate adrenaline rush" and is controlled by Inderal (propanolol, beta-blocker) and also alcohol. Many who have this condition have in fact become "inadvertent alcoholics." It is also called "essential familial tremor" because apparently it is genetic. It is not life-threatening and I have learned over the years how to deal with it. Were I to be singled out in a crowd waiting for a plane my heart would start to race and I would most assuredly be displaying "signs of nervousness" probably above and beyond what the average innocent person would display. Sounds like I need to pop some Inderal before trying to fly anywhere. I have reserved a little stash for those rare occasions when I must give a presentation.

[RamboLiberal]

20. Here's another one with US Airline

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/08/18/doctor-winnipeg.html

A Winnipeg doctor is demanding an official apology and compensation from United Airlines after being kicked off a flight in the U.S. this week, an incident he has characterized as "institutionalized discrimination." Dr. Ahmed Farooq, a Muslim, was escorted off an airplane in Denver on Tuesday. According to Farooq, reciting his evening prayers was interpreted by one passenger as an activity that was suspicious.

Dr. Ahmed Farooq was escorted off a plane in Dever because another passenger found his praying "suspicious." (CBC) "The whole situation is just really frustrating," Farooq said. "It makes you uneasy, because you realize you have to essentially watch every single thing you say and do, and it's worse for people who are of colour, who are identifiable as a minority."

Farooq said the allegation came from a passenger who appeared drunk and had previously threatened him during the trip.

When flight personnel were alerted, the 27-year-old radiology resident and two colleagues — a man and a woman — were taken off their flight. They had been returning from a conference in San Francisco.


Dr. Ahmed Farooq

[MindPilot]

30. Gee wouldn't it be just awful if the cowardly racist passenger

had a heart attack during the flight and the only Dr had been left back in Denver.

[Lisa]

40. were you once a writer for "The Twilight Zone"?

If not, you should have been!

[MindPilot]

52. I appreciate the compliment, but I'm not quite that old.

Old enough to have enjoyed the show though...:D

[Lisa]

54. they did have a 1980s version, too!

And I think there was a new "Outer Limits" in the 1990s. Maybe they weren't as famous as the classics, but they did have their moments!

[dipsydoodle]

26. Something odd about that "news"

It actually happened last Wednesday but the Mail didn't run it until yesterday. It was only after they published the details that the BBC etc picked up on it. I guess it may otherwise have passed unnoticed. Technically all of the other passengers have now exposed themselves to charges of inciting racial hatred and I hope they get every single one of the bastards. I think the whole issue was quite appalling.

Private Eye always refered to the Mail as the Daily Lie. :rofl:

In other important news , yet to be reported by the Mail, there is a squirrel in my garden.

[shadowknows69]

31. The Monsters are due on Maple Street

n/t

[Demeter]

33. The Social Contract Is Breaking Down

Repeated harping and exaggeration and lying about 9/11, terrorism, Arabs, etc., is destroying the fabric that knits the world together. The corporations and the media aren't helping, either.

[Blue_Tires]

34. it would have been nice

if the paper actually found the 2 asian men to get their comments about the incident...

and how do passengers 'prevent' a flight from taking off? you're either in your seat, or you're in the terminal, and either way, the flight takes off at the scheduled time

[HuffleClaw]

35. oh what a disgrace

a pile of folks exposing themselves as bigots. blech.

[Skittles]

41. they are creating a climate of fear

things people normally would not notice are now terrorist indicators

[superconnected]

43. Wow, so speaking arabic automatically makes one a terrorist now.

I'll take that for the nazis are winning.

[Marie26]

44. Wow.

Flying while Muslim is apparantly a crime now.

[KansDem]

45. Does Pitcairn Island now have an airport?

Mutiny on Flight 613

Perhaps they should consider building one if these kinds of incidents become more frequent.

[warrens]

48. Oh, for chrissake

They should have tossed those yahoos out on the runway and let the two Arab guys have a full plane to themselves. That's so sick and demented.

The U.K. is more civilized than the U.S., but their rednecks are just as bad as ours.

[MUSTANG_2004]

58. What are the differences?

What differences between the US and UK make the UK more civilized?

[rinsd]

53. I contrast the uniform reaction here with anti-semitic attacks

Not one poster here offered up that perhaps because of terrorism these things can be expected.

Yet attacks by anti-semites are always connected back to the actions of Israel by at the minimum a handful of posters.

Why is that?

[Lopakhin]

57. BBC update

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/5276504.stm

A man on board a flight to Manchester from Malaga has defended passengers' actions after their suspicions led to two men being removed from the plane.

David Wearden, 42, from Chester, said it was reports that the pair had been overheard claiming they had 30 minutes left to live which led to concerns.

[newyawker99]

59. Hi Lopakhin!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kitty1]

60. I thought one account claimed they just spoke Arabic.....

They probably said (if it was in English) We have 30 minutes to leave.
Future flights will now have passengers picking up all kinds of misconstrued soundbites, which will lead to more inadvertent false Id's and delays.
Then again if there is a legit suspicion, you can't ignore that either.
It's such a catch 22. As someone already suggested, better to quietly convey any suspicions youo might have to authorities, and let them make the judgment calls instead of inciting a mass panic over nothing.

[Malikshah]

61. For all the passengers that mutinied: Here is my wish for you.

May you be bumped off of overbooked flights for 5 yrs running.

May you then be sat near colicky babies for the next 10 yrs.

May you then be sat next to inebriated passengers with excessive irregularity induced incontinence and flatulence who upon finally succumbing to their inebriation inadvertently loosen their bowels next to you for 10 yrs.

Then may you lose your luggage for the next 20.

Karma is karma.

No amount of rumored talk of what was said or not makes up for the clear case of mob mentality that would make the denizens of the town in Shirley Jackson's The Lottery blush in embarassment.

[RamboLiberal]

62. Link to story on how these two guys feel about being kicked off

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2472042