Ruling against wiretaps deepens partisan divide

[Rose Siding]

...Minutes (after Bush spoke), under the headline "Dems Rejoice," the Republican National Committee illuminated those reactions, releasing the statements of eight Democrats -- including House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) and Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), the 2004 presidential nominee -- all heralding the decision as a rebuke to the president....

The National Republican Senatorial Committee challenged Democratic candidates to "stand up in opposition to a liberal judge," while the RNC released an Internet advertisement painting the Democrats as soft on defense. The ad shows prominent Democrats decrying warrantless wiretapping, abusive interrogations, ballistic missile defense and the war in Iraq through the opening of a cave, meant to represent the vantage point of terrorists monitoring the opposition party.

"Democrats say they want to talk about national security and the war on terror ... while terrorists are watching," the narrator intones.
...
"They never miss an opportunity to play divisive politics on national security," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel (Ill.), chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. "The one casualty Americans would accept in the war on terror is partisanship, and that's the one thing George Bush won't give up."

But with polls showing Republican voters more divided on security issues than Democrats are, it was unclear whether the strategy would work again.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14417030/

[bluerum]

1. More KKKarlRove engineered politcal hacking.

[Olney Blue]

7. Rove will say anything to use terrorism as a weapon.

[Champion Jack]

8. bush

saw the savagery of 9-11 and said
"Hmmm, this worked pretty well...I guess Dick and Karl were right..."

[rodeodance]

13. '.With that burst of activity, Republicans '----pretty good for a DO NOTH_

ING Congress!!


...With that burst of activity, Republicans appeared ready to make Taylor's decision on wiretapping the 2006 equivalent of a Massachusetts judge's legalization of same-sex marriage in 2004: a rallying cry for the Republican base.

[patricia92243]

2. WARRANTLESS wiretaps - not all wiretaps. n/t

[ktowntennesseedem]

17. Yeah, that's what I can't get over.

All of the spying and surveillance and snooping could have been done LEGALLY! FISA allows even for warrants gained after the surveillance has begun. And quite frankly I fully expect my government to take necessary action to safeguard it citizens, provided of course that they expend equal effort to uphold the civil rights of its citizens. But this administration cares about neither; their own selfish interests outweigh any concern over the rights of others, and they maintain their power by reminding the gullible masses that sacrificing some freedoms is a necessary trade-off for staying safe.

What worries me is that if the ruling holds through the appeals process, they will announce the end of the program (while scoring some points against the liberals and activist judges who will embolden the terrorists and... etc.), then they will just go right on eavesdropping. They've been doing it illegally for five years; having a judge tell them to stop is little more than an inconvenience. Once they've punished those who leaked it this time, and sufficiently threatened any potential future leakers, they'll try to convince us that everything will be on the up-and-up from now on, and we'll go right back to where we were.

:banghead:

[KansDem]

18. Actually, I'm beginning to suspect that all *weren't* legal...

All of the spying and surveillance and snooping could have been done LEGALLY!

I'm beginning to think the Bushistas bypassed FISA, not because it was on inconvenience or too time-consuming, but because they're wiretapping requests would be turned down. This leads me to believe that they were spying on Democrats, opposition groups, labor unions, and other Republicans.

I don't believe their lame reasons for one second...

[ktowntennesseedem]

19. Good point. -nt

[BrotherBuzz]

22. requests would be turned down, or more importantly...

they would leave an incriminating paper trail and a list that would prove most damning if it ever surfaced.

You are not alone in those thoughts

[magellan]

3. The Repugs are such a JOKE!

They keep using the same old distract and divide tactics, they never do anything positive. It's not about Bush** breaking the law -- it's...it's about the Dems! And soon, when they get really, really desperate, they'll pass the buck to Clinton again!

Look over there, shiny flashy explosive things!!

The GOP, whatta bunch of morans. :rofl:

[POAS]

4. Bush puts security above the constitution

Not for one minute do I think he actually cares about the security of average Americans. His whole security fixation is simply a means to an end, the "Unitary Executive". The constitution is merely an obstacle in the way of that goal and the security issue is a means to alienate a rabid segment of society from the ideas upon which this country was founded and a return to the priviledged class as protector of the "mythical little guy".

The Presidential oath required that he "protect and defend the Constitution" and yet he emphatically states over and over again that he his foremost obligation is to protect the people. I do not for one moment think that these folks are above the destruction of the Constitutional Government of ours thru whatever means necessary.

[CraigHinTenn]

5. great point.....it's all about the constitution.

[Olney Blue]

9. The Constitution? Oh yeah, that old piece of paper.....

:sarcasm:


Hi CraigHinTenn- Welcome to DU! :hi:

[rodeodance]

11. Bush talked of how effective the NSA program was without once men-

tioning the Constitution when he spoke at Camp David.

[Tellurian]

10. It's not only the Constitution, it's Ethnic cleansing and the Middle Class

This is a multi faceted charge by a united Republican agenda. By subverting the Constitution, they are using this opportunity to destroy the American Dream, replacing it with a Global corporate structure powered by the hearts and minds of a subverted American culture.

This is the basic reasoning for them to eradicate the Muslim culture. Muslims will never bend to the demands of the politicians crusading as religious fundamentalists democratizing the world in the name of freedom. Day by day, the pressure on Muslims in this country will increase as the government tightens it's grip on it's potentia goal. A very scary time indeed for all of us...

If you google the PNAC agreement, this plan was laid out many years ago by Cheney, Wolfowitz and Perle. All they needed was the right platform to have their plan come to fruition. (Even if they had to steal it to make it happen. (And they did just that; twice!)

[sam sarrha]

6. the judge actually said the * BROKE THE LAW, .. should be indited

one source said the possible sentence for what he did is 150 years in jail.. he actually violated the law.

so now any judge that reads the constitution and believes it says what it says is a liberal.

that speaks volumes.

[Tellurian]

16. Sadly, a deal was struck early on with Bush..

It goes something like this...After the Clinton Impeachment,It was agreed that Bush would be allowed to hold on to his presidential immunity (not inclusive of Cheney though) with the exception, if he was found guilty of money laundering..

When Bush completes his term is when he is most vulnerable. All bets are off at this point and he is subject to prosecution if a case can be made against him. (I'll guarantee you, there is much brokering going on behind the scenes because Bush has done their bidding like a loyal bassett hound and deserves to be saved. So, imo, alternative options are up for discussion like naming and hanging a scape goat is in the works)

So, you know the Rove team is working day and night to preempt come what may when his term is up. Another option at their fingertips is Martial Law, which in effect would postpone elections indefinitely until and when order is restored throughout the land. Then with the approval of the Congressional membership, elections and democracy and a normal way of life will be restored to the electorate. However, nothing would or could change. The system would remain the same for the current leadership, but the people would suffer immensely.

Not a very encouraging prospect for us.

Just a few weeks ago, a resolution was introduced in the House asking for the power to institute Martial Law..It was denied. It would take just a *spark* of Civil Disobedience from the public giving them a REASON to run this resolution through the House and who knows what their planning to do to get it through the Senate.

<sigh>

[rodeodance]

12. Was it Chertoff that mentioned that they used warrents for the Brit plot?

I know I read/heard it from some top official.

[rodeodance]

14. "no evidence that terrorism is weighing heavily on voters — just 2 %

....."There is no consensus that Republicans are better on terrorism than the Democrats, as once was clearly the case," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press.

A Pew Research Center poll released Thursday found "no evidence that terrorism is weighing heavily on voters — just 2 percent cite that as the issue they most want to hear candidates discuss, far fewer than the number mentioning education, gas prices, or health care." The center continued: "And while roughly a third of Americans (35 percent) say they are very concerned that if Democrats gain control of Congress, they will weaken terrorist defenses, even more (46 percent) express great concern that Republicans will involve the U.S. in too many

[rodeodance]

15. Repugs welcome this---gets minds of Iraq

GOP splinter
On Thursday, Rep. Michael G. Fitzpatrick (R-Pa.) wrote a letter to constituents declaring that he was saying no to "President Bush's 'stay-the-course' strategy" in Iraq. That followed a Fitzpatrick statement earlier this month saying: "When it comes to the war in Iraq, President Bush has been bold, principled, resolute, but mistaken in crucial ways."

Amid such discord, Republicans welcomed a return to debating the NSA's warrantless surveillance program. With no quick resolution of the case in sight, the judicial decision is likely to remain an issue. The Justice Department filed its notice of appeal in the case Thursday with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit in Cincinnati. But no deadline had been set as of yesterday afternoon for submitting briefs, a Justice Department official said.

"It's an opportunity, as we see it, to highlight the fundamental choice between the two parties," RNC spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt said, "between a party that understands the need for post-9/11 tools in a post-9/11 world and a party that questions giving law enforcement the tools they need to be successful."

Staff writer Dan Eggen contributed to this repo

[gratuitous]

20. Once again, the headline proposes, the story disposes

Oh no! This ruling "deepens partisan divide"! The electorate, which should stand shoulder-to-shoulder united against terrorism is divided along partisan lines! This horrible, icky, awful ruling!!

Then, read the story, and you find out that polls show "Republican voters" are the folks divided between our constitutional principles and monarchical impulses. Democrats seem quite united on the subject of whether the corrupt Bush administration should be allowed free rein to snoop through our private lives without judicial or legislative oversight (answer: No). And Democrats are joined by a substantial segment of Republicans and non-affiliated voters on the question. So, where is this "partisan divide" that's being deepened, MSNBC headline writers?

[Senator]

23. Note the Title Bar

Looks like somebody nixed the original (truthful) title, but didn't quite clean up after themselves.

From the PageSource HTML:

<title>WP: Wiretap ruling divides GOP - washingtonpost.com Highlights - MSNBC.com</title>

--

[Senator]

21. It's not an election strategy -- It's About Impeachment

Unlike the deluded DC-Dem "leadership," the Rovians know full well that the majority of (former) Americans already want this regime impeached, removed, and prosecuted.

They're terrified that they can't even keep their remaining diehards terrified enough to ignore their serial criminality.

Because if "running away" from the bushkid doesn't start working, these thugs could well start "running against" him (to save their own sorry butts from being "Duked").

And they don't do the Dem's nuanced pillow-fight dance.

There's still time for them to opt for Pres. Hastert now, as opposed to Pres. Pelosi later.

--

[elehhhhna]

24. You're either FOR the Constitution or AGAINST the Constitution.

That's THE litmus test. It's being carried out now. Don't think the public isn't noticing who's who, either.

[elehhhhna]

25. It's time to call it what it is: ILLEGAL, Unconstitutional evesdropping.

[TripleD]

26. Republican Crime Bosses

If the Republican leadership is going to take a stand against the Constitution, then it's not only fitting, but now fully justified to refer to them as "Republican crime bosses".

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ahimsa]

28. Wow, two No answers..

.. and they could only muster 12%