Review of Landmark Study Finds Fewer Vietnam Veterans With Post-Traumatic

[Rose Siding]

Stress

Far fewer Vietnam veterans suffered from post-traumatic stress as a result of their wartime service than previously thought, researchers are reporting today, in a finding that could have lasting consequences for the understanding of combat stress, as well as for the estimates of the mental health fallout from the Iraq war.

The report, published in the journal Science and viewed by experts as authoritative, found that 18.7 percent of Vietnam veterans developed a diagnosable stress disorder that could be linked to a war event at some point in their lives, well under the previous benchmark number of 30.9 percent. And while the earlier analysis found that for 15.2 percent of the veterans the symptoms continued to be disabling at the time they were examined, the new study put that figure at 9.1 percent.
...
Bobby Muller, president of Vietnam Veterans for America in Washington, who was paralyzed from the chest down after taking a bullet in Vietnam, said....“that veterans suffering mental health problems have been under assault, the diagnosis has been continuously attacked in terms of its legitimacy, funding has not been ramped up to handle these problems for vets returning from Iraq, and now people will see this study and say, ‘Oh look, the problem is not as bad as we thought it was.’ ” He added, “This is absolutely the last thing we need.”

A spokeswoman for the Veterans Affairs department said it had no comment on the study or on whether it would have any affect on mental health benefits for veterans. The department would need time to evaluate the findings, the spokeswoman said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/18/health/policy/18psych.html

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

1. well, duh. let's see, I am just about the youngest you

can be to be a Viet Nam vet and I turned 54 this year,

what other earth-shattering news can they come up with?

Civil War Vets still dead?

Franco? Still dead.
Reagan? Likewise.

friggin assholes. ever think that this population has suffered all it can, and is shuffling off it's mortal coil?

[Triana]

2. Question: What Republican organization...

...that wants to use studies like this as an excuse to cut Veteran's benefits sponsored this 'research'? Follow the money...it may lead nowhere but I'd be interested to see if it does or not. I'm always skeptical about "research" like this. And, has it been corroborated by other studies?

[station agent]

9. Seconded

Follow the money, I'm sure it's as Triana says.

[LostinVA]

14. Exactly what popped into my mind, too n/t

[babylonsister]

3. Tell that to my unemployed, 100% disabled brother-in-law. nt

[Felinity]

4. Let's do the math

ONLY 18.7%! Good news!

Assuming we've rotated at least 200,000 troops in Iraq, that means (assuming the same excellent percentage now identified from Vietnam Vets) ONLY 37,400 young men and women who cannot function well in "normal" society. If they each have on average 1.5 children, 1.8 parents, and .8 spouses, that would effect a mere 153,340 citizens.

I spoke to a woman who was one of the first deployed to and first discharged from Iraq, a medic who made countless helicopter sorties to pick up wounded soldiers. After 4 years at home, and lots of treatment, she was working toward a Masters in Social Work so that she could help others with PTS. She was still on full disability. She was still unable, herself, to engage in any lengthy conversation about her experience. She was still collecting all the pieces of herself back up and trying to put them together.

She was also living in Oregon, where her experience was that liberals did not care about the troops. I tried to correct that impression and told her to listen to Randi Rhodes.


ONLY 18.7%!!! AWESOME. :sarcasm:

[Sal Minella]

6. Great Post. Thanks.

[acmavm]

5. Did I miss something? How are they counting this? Are they

lying as usual (like the welfare queens driving caddies)? I wonder if they're counting the dead and the suicides and the homeless?

[David__77]

7. My father sure did.

I saw that shit up close - it was not pretty. Frothing at the mouth lunacy coupled with withdrawal and personality disorders.

[Alacrat]

8. I have no doubt many more Vietnam Vets had PTSD,

probably way more than were previously thought. Think about WW2 vets, the average soldier endured more years of combat and on an equal to or more violent level. Rarely was PTSD talked about, or even recognized. I'm sure it existed, but most probably just lived with it, or dealt with it in a tragic way ie.. alcohol abuse, suicide, domestic violence. I think there was a mentality of, you were weak, if you complained about your feelings, so the majority were never recognized. Why would VN be any different? Society was a little more understanding of psychological problems, but still the majority probably felt they were being weak if they admitted problems. Just a thought.......... I'm a firefighter, we have C.I.S.D. critical incident stress debriefings, sometimes formally, sometimes simply sitting around the table talking with your co-workers, but most wouldn't admit having problems from PTSD. There is a level of peer pressure, and bravado that make admitting problems seem weak.

[bleedingheart]

10. my dad fought for 3 years in the Pacific...

it turned him into a functional alcoholic...
he would work, was a good father...but the booze was his way of dealing with the pain.

he died young at 60...and up until he died in '80...he was still having nightmares about Guadalcanal.

they had it...they just didn't talk about it.

[cyberpj]

11. Until we know better - I'd suspect this is a tool for cutting more VA bens

How can you trust "reports" when you already know they hire scientists to lie about global warming?

You can't.

[Fierce]

12. Does the VA recognize PTSD as a legitimate health problem

that needs treatment?

[Demeter]

13. Fewer Vietnam Vets Are Found to Have Stress Disorder--WaPo

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/17/AR2006081701488.html?referrer=email

Fewer Vietnam Vets Are Found to Have Stress Disorder
New Study Is Criticized for Using Narrow Criteria for Condition

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 18, 2006; A03



A painstaking reanalysis of data collected in the 1980s from Vietnam War veterans confirms that post-traumatic stress disorder is a real and common psychiatric consequence of war, but it comes to the controversial conclusion that significantly fewer veterans were affected than experts have thought.

The report's suggestion that one in five Vietnam veterans had the syndrome at some point in the first dozen years after the war -- as opposed to previous estimates as high as one in three -- drew praise from some experts as a valuable reassessment of an issue made timely by fresh waves of disturbed veterans coming back from Iraq.

"It provides a more accurate gauge of the treatment needs," said Harvard University psychologist Richard J. McNally, who wrote a commentary accompanying the research in today's issue of the journal Science.

But other experts and some veterans groups criticized the study, saying it used criteria so narrow that it excluded many vets who should have been included.

EVEN BETTER, 20 YEARS AFTER, HOW MANY HAVE DIED DUE TO LACK OF TREATMENT, SUICIDE OF VARIOUS FORMS, ETC? INCLUDING MY UNCLE, DEAD AT 55 IN 1999, OF ADDICTION.

[Megahurtz]

18. Wow. I don't believe that one for a minute. n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

15. The problem is that the formally defined criteria for PTSD

constitute a relatively narrow portion of the spectrum of psychological problems that may actually result from trauma. Only those who respond to the trauma with a specific pattern of symptoms qualify for the diagnosis under DSM IV criteria. For example, alcoholism, rage reactions, dissociation ("spacing out," etc.), generalized anxiety & withdrawal from social contact are not taken as diagnostic of PTSD, even though veterans may display a variety of these characteristics as a direct consequence of their exposure to war-related trauma.

[sgxnk]

16. i don't hate to say i told you so

but i was arguing this point with somebody here within the last week

the media overemphasized (not to mention ideologues) incidents of PTSD to help forward a narrative

of COURSE PTSD happens

heck, i know cops and firemen who have suffered PTSD too.

but its prevalence among vietnam vets was exaggerated

[mbperrin]

19. How about that military tool used to diagnose? It's a FOUR item

instrument. WOW! If that's not designed to deny treatment, then read about what's recommended by real people looking to HELP people, instead of just sending them on their way:
http://darwin.nap.edu/books/0309102073/html/29.html
From: Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: Diagnosis and Assessment (2006)
Board on Population Health and Public Health Practice (BPH)

[sgxnk]

20. i;ll take a look at it. thanks for the link nt

[mbperrin]

21. You're welcome!

nt

[jwdeviant]

27. 4 Items? That's monstrous!

Here it is: http://www.oqp.med.va.gov/cpg/PTSD/PTSD_cpg/content/appendices/appendixC.htm

All questions yes / no

"1. Have had nightmares about it or thought about it when you did not want to?"

Covers most of DSM-IV criteria B except flashbacks and external cues (the famous "backfire of a car leads to a vet diving to the ground" type incidents). Not terrible, but far from good.

"2. Tried hard not to think about it or went out of your way to avoid situations that reminded you of it?"

Covers DSM-IV part of criteria C well enough.

"3. Were constantly on guard, watchful, or easily startled?"

Covers few of DSM-IV criteria D, leaves out sleeplessness, anger, and trouble concentrating. Very poor.

"4. Felt numb or detached from others, activities, or your surroundings?"

Covers DSM-IV the rest of criteria C well enough, except for loss of memory of the event itself.

3 or more YES answers indicate probable PTSD, but that's by current standards, possibly it was once required that all be YES.

Happily the new standards are up to date and correct. Unfortunately, those that I can review are designed for disasters, the ones for combat stress need to be ordered by someone with more psych credentials than I carry (I'm a researcher, not a clinician).

[Lisa]

17. "only" 1 out of 5? And how about the ones who aren't diagnosed ...

... or who go through a bad patch and are only viewed as "borderline" because they are able to manage their stress?

And as a previous poster pointed out ... even an underestimate like this means tens of thousands of people, not including their spouses and kids, who are seriously affected.

I got a whole new perspective on PTSD this summer, after I went to the hospital for some blood tests, and the elderly veteran next to me in the waiting area was having flashbacks. It was horrible. The poor man was crying and whimpering -- he was probably at least 80 years old, so it must have been WWII or Korea -- and he was also suffering from dementia, so he was unable to distance himself from those events, or rationalize them. There was just raw fear -- nothing else. The staff tried to comfort him, but it was no good ... he was going through his own private hell, and nobody could reach him

The people fighting in Iraq now could easily live past the year 2060. Who will look after them for all those decades into the future?

[mom cat]

22. The statistic may be a result of the high suicide rate and death from

drugs and alcohol rate. The worst PTSD cases are already dead.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

23. Thank you, that was my point. Same as with

Agent Orange exposure, the longer they delay, the older the population becomes, and the more likely they will die off of other causes.

[mom cat]

28. And then ... tra la ... the survivors are dead and make the stats look

better. Figures don't lie but liars can figure!

Thanks for the OP!

[InkAddict]

24. Thoughts on PTSD in this article

http://www.utne.com/pub/2006_136/promo/12168-1.html

A little hope for the our collective fears.

[rucky]

25. Cross those numbers with suicide rates among vets

and other stress-related deaths. Wonder what you'd get.

[harpboy_ak]

26. Of course they can't count the ones that committed suicide

Or like one of the kids from my neighborhood, died in a drunk driving accident, since after he came back from 'Nam he was hardly ever sober...