Chinese envoy tells U.S. to 'shut up'

[tuvor]

LONDON - The United States should "shut up" with its concerns about China's growing military spending because the increase is no threat, a Chinese ambassador said Thursday.

Sha Zukang, China's ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva, told British Broadcasting Corp. radio that American concerns about his country's growing military might were misguided.

"It's better for the U.S. to shut up," Sha said. "Keep quiet. It's much, much better."

Sha said the world need not worry about China's growing economic and military might because "China basically is a peace-loving nation."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/britain_china_us

[eleny]

1. Whoa!

[rooboy]

2. LOL - I thought Americans LIKED politicians who talked tough! n/t

[LiberalFighter]

43. Who told Chinese to say that? bush?

[BushOut06]

3. I'm sure the Japanese said the same thing before WWII

Of course, the US really isn't in much of a position to complain too much. Personally, I think there's always cause for concern when anyone starts ratcheting up their military might.

[barb162]

18. I agree with you there

[zreosumgame]

53. difference is

Wal-Mart would not allow dumbaya to freeze all Chinese assets and embargo China.

[SemperEadem]

83. he should have said

shut up before we call in our loans.

[rocktivity]

82. But if ISRAEL has a right to defend itself...

:eyes:
rocknation

[bahrbearian]

4. I can't think of a time (recently in the last century or two) that China

Invaded and Occupied a country they had no Borders with.

[WCGreen]

7. Well, at least they have that border thingy going for them....

Seriously, they, plus the next ten largest militaries in the world still spend less than we do....

[bahrbearian]

9. O.K. maybe I should put out the" Bait" when was the time they

attacked another entity unprovoked ?

[WCGreen]

10. Vietnam kicked their ass after they invaded them when we

left....

[knight_of_the_star]

11. Vietnam has beaten everyone who's tried

Seriously those people are a tough bunch, they beat China more than once, they beat us, they drove the Japanese nuts in WWII, and they beat the French (no slouches themselves).

[bahrbearian]

12. After we "Intervened ,or Left ? WTF were we there for?

Oh ya, Stop the "Red Menace" So how did that work out for us ?

[drdtroit]

15. Google Vietnam War & Shell Oil and there you have it!

NOTHING EVER CHANGES when it come to the designs of corporate criminals!
:patriot:

[barb162]

20. Tibet, Vietnam

[ima_sinnic]

24. they didn't invade/occupy/take over Tibet? (n/t)

[bvar22]

30. China attacked and occupied Tibet in 1950.

China still occupies Tibet today.

[ixion]

31. can you say Tibet?

I knew you could. :-)

[barb162]

19. Tibet????

[Recursion]

26. Neither did Germany

I don't think Germany's ever invaded a country it didn't have a border with at the time of the invasion, either; it's just that every invasion pushed that border further east, west, or southeast, which exposed a new country to having a border with Germany. I mean, they kind of seized a port in Morocco but even the Moroccans regarded that more as a curiosity.

[ewoden]

37. Norway,, Crete, Malta, Algeria?

[daleo]

75. What was El Alamein about then?

And Tubruk, etc. Montgomery and Rommel had quite a thing going in North Africa.

Let's not forget the African theater of WWI either.

[ERF]

34. That is relevant because?

It is almost impossible to attack a nation that is prepared unless you have a broder with it. Naval attacks inevitably fail.

The last 2 that succeeded were: D-Day. When Julius Caesar invaded England.

Defending a coast is actually quite easy because the attacker will drown even if you just hold him back. The beachfront is inevitably lower ground, the attacker gets no reinforcements and you do.

D-Day's success was truly a miracle.

[ewoden]

38. So was the invasion of Norway a miracle too?

[ERF]

39. It wasn't against a defended shoreline /beach head as in the

other circumstances. The Germans didn't have to fight their way off the beaches.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/70-7_02.htm

[teknomanzer]

48. I dont think Julius Caesar Succesfully invaded Britain...

It was under the rule of Claudius the Britain was successfully conquered... (remember Caligula lead an army to the shores of Gual to invade Britain only to have them collect sea shells)

[Stella_Artois]

81. Last 2 ?

Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, The Phillipines (twice) etc etc

Lots of miracles in that war.

[AnneD]

50. They don't invade...they reunify

I don't think Tibet is too happy to be 'Chinese'.

[TomInTib]

5. They are holding our paper...

And they are going to call it in right before they whack Taiwan.

[Tellurian]

32. As far as I'm concerned, Bush + Cheney created this war ..

for their own personal gain.
Let them deal with paying their own bills
and the ramifications from the Chinese if
they have problems paying their bills.

[cliss]

49. It's even worse than that.

I got a call from someone in the govt. yesterday. (I deal with US exports). The govt. official said that our country (the US) has become like a 3rd world country in terms of exports to China.

He said that we are now the developing country: we ship lots of raw materials to them. They turn around and process it; turn it into products and sell it back to us.

We were both stunned, speechless after that ugly fact resonated in our brains....

[kineneb]

58. yup- USA, 3rd world country

Just like before the Revolution- nothing made here, but exporter of raw materials for offshore corporations, then in England, now in China.

(Damn, why does history keep repeating itsself? Is it because people are such stupid animals?)

[SOS]

62. Multinational corporations

want all workers in third world status. The Wall Streeters gleefully call this "wage convergence".
Wages in Vietnam rise slightly, while ours plummet.
In 20 years, workers all over the world will be getting $6 an hour without health benefits.
The excess value of all that labor will go to the world's top 0.1%.

[Deja Q]

89. Didn't the US government authorize all these deals with China?

Nixon started it, but Reagan and Clinton sure as hell made the most of it. Especially the MVP status Clinton accorded China... (not that the Repubs could justify their ersatz anger over Clinton's decision; Reagan had his share of allowing corporate America to trade with the enemy...)

[Deja Q]

88. But they aren't holding our missiles...

and I know many Repubs (and Dems) who don't like China. If Bush plays his cards right, his popularity might go back up. (okay, we all know he won't, but China - despite the economic slant - has much less power than they realize. Kinda hard to be powerful when you're dead or dying. And that's why none of this with China is going to go anywhere. They won't want to die. Neither will we.)

[niallmac]

6. The U.S. is a peace loving nation too.

And we'll bomb the c**p out of anybody who doesn't think so.

[bdamomma]

55. if we continue on the dangerous path we are on

we will get our asses kicked. How much bullying can other countries take??

[Skip Intro]

8. wow

China speaks up


kinda scary

[Joe Bacon]

13. THe REAL "Red Menace" is all the RED INK Republicans spill!

China holds our debt, and thanks to Christian Republicans, we've sold them the rope they will use to hang us!

[bahrbearian]

16. I'd like to say "Amen" but that 's not apropriate,...

[AnnieBW]

14. STFU

How do you say STFU in Mandarin?

[Recursion]

22. Hao le

Hao le (more literally "enough of that"). It's also in polite form which, oddly enough, if used abruptly, can be more rude than informal form; it's a weird dynamic. It's kind of like how it's rude to say "no" ("pu") directly, so you say yes ("she"), but hesitantly, to mean no. It's a very euphemistic language and culture. But I would imagine they're used to dealing with stupid white people enough to know that you sometimes have to slap us across the face, verbally, to get our attention, which is probably why he spoke so bluntly. Also, if my mental attempt at back-translation into my poor Mandarin is right, the "it's better if they just stay quiet" wouldn't have the mob-ish overtones that it does in English; the sense is "it's better in a collective sense for the world if they do not make so much noise about others".

[Festivito]

29. Interesting and nicely written. Thank you.

We owe them money. This might be one slap of many more to come.

[NYC]

35. I learned Yale romanization.

What did you learn?

In Yale: Hau le, bu, shr.

:)

Wo shemma dou wang le. (I can't mark the tones.)

[Recursion]

41. Heh... I never learned to Romanize

So when I try to write it in Roman it corresponds to no known system... My teacher was really old-school and said if you wanted to write a word you can damn well learn its radicals.

OTOH, in dmesg's otherwise unknown Romanization system, tone marking can be done like:

ni1
ni2
ni3
ni4

or

ni/
ni\
niV
ni-

[architect359]

44. Thanks

Thought I'd mention it cuz I was wondering how to, as a few of you have said, romanize Mandarin. Btw, and I could be wrong but isn't the sequence as follows?

ni\
ni-
niV
ni/

It's been a while tho.

[Recursion]

45. We were both wrong

1 -
2 /
3 V
4 \

I always get the number backwards...

[NYC]

80. The V is good.

I was looking for a third tone shape, but it seems the keyboard doesn't have one.

Yale Romanization was easy to use.

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

51. Bi zui

Bi = to shut/close
Zui = mouth

"Bi zui" would be the normal/tactless way to tell someone to shut up. But I have no idea what was actually said in this instance.

[Recursion]

54. Hmmm

My memory (admittedly porous) was that bi zui would be what you might say to someone chewing with his mouth open, ie, the sense is "physically close your mouth" rather than "stop talking". But it's been years. My teacher always would use hao le when he wanted me to stop asking so many questions.

[Deja Q]

87. Who cares for words; an icon is universal. In this case, it's a finger...

[enid602]

17. criticism

Are we in a position to criticize ANY country for increased military spending? Ours has increased from $150B annually to $500B annually just during the Bush Administration.

[Recursion]

25. 10 years ago, yes

10 years ago I think we were in a position to criticize countries for military spending, because the international consensus was that the American military was the main guarantor of world peace. Now that countries are perceiving our military as a threat to peace and stability, we lose that standing. And I'm not even as anti-military or anti-US foreign policy as a lot of people here; I just recognize that in international relations perceptions matter, and since we are no longer perceived as being trustworthy enough to guarantee world peace, we are de facto no longer the guarantors. Sigh... I wonder if this is what Tacitus felt like.

[go west young man]

21. You can listen to the original BBC interview at this address.

It's halfway down the page in the center and requires Real Player to stream it. It's pretty intense.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/ondemand/rams/nh33352____2006.ram

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[outofbounds]

27. Didn't He give them or trade

with them some missile technology? Kept them quiet for about 8 years. Now they are getting defensive in an aggressive way. :sarcasm: I can hear it now.

[Toots]

36. Maybe you are referring to the waiver Clinton renewed that was initially

issued by Reagan. It was a waiver for the Loral Group to give the Chinese better navigation equipment so they could successfully launch satellites since most major business's were going to China to get their satellites launched.

[truthisfreedom]

28. "and when I get excited, my little China girl says Oh baby just you shut

your mouth"

Iggy Pop (as sung by David Bowie)

[4dsc]

33. Can you say "Resource wars"

The coming resource wars are going to be interesting. Of course, China is alot closer to the oil fields in the Middle East than the US.. They won't have to worry about long supply lines!!!

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. Since the US outspends the next 10 countries combined on military

I'm not sure we have shit to say about anything.

Besides, if the neighborhood bully in my area was going around punching people in the face, seemingly at random, you damn skippy that I'd brush up on my boxing, gnaw mean?

[Efilroft Sul]

42. As I've told others, China's the Big Game this century.

How America would handle radical Islam is kind of like preseason football. You learn who the players are, you figure out what game plans work, and you get ready for the big campaign that follows. The PNAC players need to be cut from Team America, and diplomacy has to be put in the playbook. Long story short, we haven't played smartly against radical Islam. America needs to engage Syria and Iran at the table, and we need to develop realistic alternative energy sources to break us free from Mid East oil addiction and the stranglehold Big Oil has on the front office.

IF we successfully manage to get our act in gear, only then will we be ready to handle China. And by handling China, I mean dealing with them respectfully from a position of strength. You do not talk down to one of the world's greatest civilizations. We both need each other.

[bikebloke]

46. Alistair Cook

I used to listen to Alistair Cook on the Beeb. Every now and then he'd mention that China would be a force to reckon with. From my own point of view, if China invades anyone, it'll be someone with a breadbasket.

[brentspeak]

47. Most Favored Nation status,huh?

Thanks to the Repubs (except for a few, like Walter Jones) and the neoliberal Democrats (ie. much of the DLC), China is beating us into the ground. Guess the average struggling American family can't survive without access to all that cheap plastic Chinese-made junk at WalMart and Target. (Sarcasm).

[Supersedeas]

74. Dr. Condi...work some of your diplomatic magic

[David__77]

52. I'm glad their increasing their spending.

The US military spending dwarfs the next several countries' spending put together. That is unhealthy for international peace.

[jseankil]

59. Flawed thinking

We are talking about a dictatorship bent on taking over independent and Taiwan. They aren't going to sit on those weapons you know. You might not like the polices of the U.S. but take a look at what China does at home, now are you really glad that these guys are increasing their weapon stocks?

[David__77]

60. Yes, I am.

It's the US and not China that is occupying and bombing and killing outside its borders, not China. Actions speak louder than anything else. China has much more credibility in respecting the sovereignty of other countries. Personally, I consider the PRC/ROC issue an internal affair of China; that said, I doubt China would launch war with ROC/Taiwan--they value economic development above all else. More likely, Taiwan will enter a loose confederation with PRC, Macao, and Hong Kong.

[VegasWolf]

56. Our mighty "we spend 10 x more on our army than any other country" has

just had its 10x ass kicked in Iraq. The equipment is shot, we have spent a billion dollars a day for nothing, our soldiers are exhausted, and we couldn't win a war with Grenada at this point. 10 x spending my ass.

[newportdadde]

57. If we went to war with them would they still build all of our stuff?

You know like socks for troops or other daily use products.

[FormerDem06]

61. That's where it's going to hit the fan....

China will cut all of that off, and we have no infrastructure or capability to produce anymore as we did in past times. I don't think it will happen soon, but one day, they will call all of our debt and invade Taiwan (and whatever other country they need to to get natural gas or oil (Pakistan perhaps?).

It will get interesting, and we will be unable to do anything about it.

[hogwyld]

63. We've already lost, we just don't know it yet

They hold our debt, and can cripple our nation on a whim. The have the ability to call up a couple of hundred million soldiers. US? we've got groken down equipment and exhausted troops. Man, was this a great country or what???

[newspeak]

64. I remember in my college history class

my professor stated that during WWII it was easier for the US to respond because of our manufacturing base. Manufacturers switched from making washing machines, etc... to making planes, bombs, etc... What do we have now? What do we manufacture? Our country is being systematically weakened by multi-national corporations who care less about the US going down the crapper -- more about their bottom line. We, the American people, are being stripped bare--resources sold to the highest bidder, manufacturing jobs going overseas, labor rights being diminished. They are destroying us within, and this administration, I believe, has had their greedy hands in it. All we have to look at is these neo-cons worshipping at the altar of mammon and leaving our citizens, our soldiers in the dust. I was listening to AAR, Al Franken, and they were discussing how they cut the soldiers' budget for brain injuries from 14 million to 7 million--and 14 million wasn't enough!!!!! They've already raided the treasury and leaving us high and dry!!! And, just imagine, it only took them six years to raid the house!!!!! I just want to know is it by design to turn the US into a third world Banana Republic---enquiring minds want to know!!!!

[FormerDem06]

70. I agree with what you posted but this started way before six years ago

The military was cut off at the knees and reduced to half it's size during the 90s. Clinton signed NAFTA, and opened the floodgates. The administration bears a lot of blame, but the corporations have been buying off both sides of the aisle for years.

Next they are going to take aim at the LongShoreman and the truck drivers by implementing this (all goods come from China, all labor comes from Mexico):

http://www.nascocorridor.com/

[newspeak]

84. yeah, Clinton signed NAFTA-GATT

but it was Poppy's baby. And, at the time, I felt very betrayed by Clinton--and still do. So, it reminds me when the progressive populist movement was formed-when Repukes and Dems were wheeling and dealing with each other, extreme nepotism and corruption abounded--the people saw the writing on the wall, that they weren't being represented--that the Robber Barons ruled and had more influence. You know, I bet half of our representatives didn't read NAFTA-GATT before voting on it--everything for the corporations, now foreign corporations against the will of the people.

[NashVegas]

92. Wall Street Rose and Woke Up a Sleeping Giant

China remembers its wars of the 19th century with the "foreign devils."

While China kept its doors closed to the world, neither did it impose its will on the world.

I don't believe China would threaten us unless they, themselves, felt threatened. And if they did? I wouldn't want to be around for it.

[davidinalameda]

65. China is peace loving?

:rofl:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

85. Seems to be less war-loving than the US, based on recent history. -nt

[Deja Q]

91. Agreed. Define "peace". Unless "peace" means "subjugation", of course...

It's the latest many-splintered fad word, "peace"...

[Dr Fate]

66. "Attention, Wallmart shoppers..." n/t

n/t

[Uncle Joe]

67. It depends up on what the meaning of the word "is" is. n/t

[zreosumgame]

68. and once again dumbaya will cower

just like he did during the spy plane incident. That right there should have been brought up over and over to show people what a chicken-shit he is.

[VegasWolf]

69. Bush's betters have spoken. Poor little Georgie. nt

[donkeyotay]

71. ha ha! China's UN ambassador better keep quiet or we'll sic

John Bolton on him.:rofl:

Oh my, how the mighty have fallen.

[stepnw1f]

72. Thanks Bush... Now China Talks Down to Us

Good going... you turned a 1st rate nation into a mediocre third class country in debt to it's enemies. Fuck everyone of you Bush supporters.

[goforit]

73. LOL!!! China is is giving sh*t to the sh*t disturber

[Riverman]

76. Get Ready for 500 Years of Chinese Domination

[ckramer]

77. Sounds like a creditor talk to a debtor.

Shut up! Or pay me back the money!

Yes, Sir!

[neuvocat]

78. Sure does.

T-bills are a bitch.

[Spinoza]

79. After what China's leaders did

and are still doing to Tibet, Falun Gong members, Muslim and Christian minorities, and anyone who tries to openly criticize the Chinese government, the proper American response to China;s government might well be (in plain English): Uckfay Ouyay

(And no internet censorship, assholes.)

[Deja Q]

90. Thankfully, even Bush is nowhere near as sadistic as the Chinese gov't.

[Deja Q]

86. China is peace-loving? Here's a pic to remind us all...

Only as peace-loving as the length of the leash they keep strapped to their people.

x(

[samsingh]

93. actually, the fact they can say shut up to us

means the military spending is a threat.