JonBenet Ramsey D.A.: More work needed

[goodhue]

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/15296608.htm

Posted on Thu, Aug. 17, 2006

JonBenet Ramsey D.A.: More work needed

CATHERINE TSAI

Associated Press

BOULDER, Colo. - The district attorney in the JonBenet Ramsey slaying said Thursday there is "much more work" to be done in the case against the suspect, and she warned the public not to "jump to conclusions."

Mary Lacy, who has spearheaded the investigation for Boulder County, did not immediately disclose any details about the case involving former schoolteacher John Mark Karr, 41, who was arrested a day earlier at an apartment in Bangkok. In an interview with the Associated Press, Karr said he killed the girl by accident.

But Lacy suggested that the arrest may have been forced by other circumstances, including the need for public safety and fear the suspect might flee.

"There are circumstances that exist in any case that mandate an arrest before an investigation is complete," Lacy said.

She refused to say whether authorities were worried Karr was lying about killing the little girl. Lacy said Karr has not been formally charged, and declined to speculate what counts he might face.

"I'm asking you this morning, let us do our job thoroughly and carefully. The analysis of the evidence in this case continues on a day-by-day, on an hour-by-hour basis as we speak," she said, adding that "there is much more work to be done now that the suspect is in custody."

* * *

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/15296608.htm

[saigon68]

1. Why is this news

Aren't there enough threads on this?

[jobycom]

9. Because it's a breaking update on a story many people find important

That's the definition of news, isn't it?

[kurth]

18. Dead/Missing Pretty Little Rich White Girls are Job One

as usual.

[Scout1071]

29. Wrong.

This goes beyond a "pretty little rich white girl."

This is about sick pedophiles and the public persecution of a family that it now appears was innocent all along.

How would you like to be accused, without any evidence, of raping and viciously murdering your own 6 yr old daughter on Christmas Day?

If you don't think it's news, stay out of the thread. Some of us are relieved that a murderous pedophile is off the streets and are interested in the facts of the case. My interest has nothing to do with the fact that she is white, little or rich.

[nonconformist]

60. Hear hear! NT

[NeoConsSuck]

64. "a murderous pedophile is off the streets"

wow! that must have been a fast trial! I went to the bathroom 20 minutes ago. Was that when he was tried and convicted?

And you have the gall to talk about persecution and false accusations?

BTW, your case against this guy is unraveling quickly.

[Scout1071]

65. He is already a convicted pedophile.

I agree that we should wait for all the facts to come in as it relates to the JonBonet case, but I'm not sorry for one minute that a convicted pedophile has been arrested - in the city known for pedophilia - where he was also teaching the 2nd grade. He's lived on the run all over Asia and who knows how many children he has molested.

[LostinVA]

77. He's not a convicted pedophile

He was convicted for child porn. The odds are good he is a pedophile, at least emotionally, but that's not what his conviction was for.

[Scout1071]

87. His wife has a restraining order against him seeing his own children.

I'm not going to keep arguing this. He's a sick fuck and I hope he rots in prison. Zero sympathy.

[LostinVA]

108. Arguing what? I never said he wasn't a pedophile

I said he wasn't a convicted pedophile, because he's not. Try reading this and my other posts correctly, before accusing me of something I'm not doing, okay? Geez.

[Scout1071]

118. My apologies.

I'm just peeved that people seem to be defending him. I agree that we need to hear the evidence before he is tied to JonBenet, but it's pretty clear he is one bad guy that needs to be off the streets.

I know you aren't defending him and I apologize if I got a little feisty. This is a volatile issue.

[treestar]

122. It's not "defending him" to argue due process of law should apply to

any criminal accusation. If he was convicted of something in the past and served his time does not make him amenable to less than anyone else.

Geez, it's just like being accused of "supporting Hezbollah" for questioning Israeli actions or of "supporting Al Qaeda" for questioning Bush's, but worse, because you're talking about our system of justice. If he gets a lawyer, I guess that lawyer will be accused of "helping pedophiles" since "defending them" is not allowed.

[Scout1071]

123. Oh, for chrissakes, I was apologizing to the other poster.

I'll say it again. I'm all for due process. I am also ecstatic this sick fuck is off the streets.

[sandrakae]

42. JonBenet Ramsey is a murdered innocent little girl. SHE MATTERS.

If you do not care then don't read about it or listen to the reports, but please do not disrepect this child like she doesn't matter.

[LostinVA]

46. Agreed

[saigon68]

110. Nice straw man argument

I stand in awe

[saigon68]

74. wow they really went after you

I rest my case

[fooj]

2. Kinda like the "Terror in the Sky" story?

But Lacy suggested that the arrest may have been forced by other circumstances

[MidwestTransplant]

3. Personally I think this guy is a total nut who probably thinks he did it

but didn't actually.

[VegasWolf]

4. That is exactly the bet where my money lies! nt

[ronnykmarshall]

50. Same here.

His ex-wife stated that he was with her the night of the murder.

I feel bad for the family. They may have gotten their hopes up for nothing.

[daleo]

5. You could be right

They may be setting the public up for a non-match of the DNA evidence.

[apnu]

7. to which the MSM will say to everybody ...

... "PSYCHE!!!"

[goodhue]

6. Indeed, I doubt he did the crime

Or was anywhere near it for that matter.

[0007]

28. This man is making this shit up as he goes

[Halliburton]

32. I agree

they didn't even test any of his DNA yet. all they have on him right now is his outrageous statements.

[coalition_unwilling]

23. Syndrome of "false confessions" is alive and well, particularly

in a case with so much media notoriety.

Suspect's ex-wife has already indicated a preliminary alibi exists for suspect on day\night of Ramsey's abduction\murder, acc. to ABC's "Good Morning America."

[Marie26]

31. There had to be more than that, IMO.

The prosecutor has been apparantly investigating this individual for months, following leads & finding evidence. And it never occured to anyone to ask his wife if he had an alibi for that day? I don't believe that. False confessions are very common in notorious cases, & usually ignored unless there's something else tying the person to the crime. Before extraditing this person from Thailand, I do think that the DA would have investigated possible alibis & exculpatory evidence. This DA has worked systematically so far, and managed to find a suspect in a 10-year-old case. I think she knows what she's doing. That doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty, I'm just saying that IMO there is more evidence here that we're not aware of. Unlike the Boulder Police office, this office isn't leaking to the media.

[marions ghost]

51. right

I don't understand many posters reactions to this "alibi" by the ex-wife. Wouldn't there have to be lots more information on that? I mean is she credible, are there corroborating witnesses, other substantiation, etc? It wouldn't be too hard to hop a flight to Colorado if the guy was seriously motivated. It seems to me a lot of people are taking this bit of news at face value. The DA would take the alibi into consideration, surely.

At this point how could bystanders believe anything one way or the other?

[goodhue]

53. not just wife, also his brother

Karr’s brother, Nate Karr, told Fox News that to his knowledge Mr. Karr had never lived in or visited Boulder.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/world/18ramsey.ready.html?hp&ex=1155873600&en=f7518a0c2e074e85&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[marions ghost]

55. uh...so?

"to his knowledge" --that line is convincing to a lot of people? My siblings would have no idea of my itinerary most of the time.

Just sayin'--it's not really legally substantiating. Needs more evidence.

[goodhue]

56. There so far has been no evidence that Karr was ever in Colorado

nt

[marions ghost]

59. well

obviously they will have to have strong evidence linking him to the scene.

I just don't understand why people (at this point) would find relatives' comments convincing if we don't know what the real situation is with the relatives. I mean, these days there's not much stopping people from lying.

No evidence that he was in Colorado, but no evidence that he wasn't.

I'm just interested in understanding the legal procedures. Since the case is so public, it's a good case study. I have no opinion about this guy yea or nay.

[goodhue]

61. "these days there's not much stopping people from lying"

Only time will tell, but in this case I suspect that it is John Karr who is lying.

[LostinVA]

84. There is zero reason for his ex to protect

And every reason for her to try and implicate her. She got a protective order against him, divorced him, and asked for and was granted full custody with zero visitation rights. Those of not the actions of someone who would lie for a child rapist and murdered. She si not a relative of his. She is someone who lived in fear of him.

I consider her very brave and honest for coming forward. Good for her. It would have been easy to keep her mouth shut until lawyers and cops talked to her.

[marions ghost]

86. sure

you can postulate this about the ex. It's reasonable. I don't have any reason to doubt that you may (may) be exactly right.

However what I'm getting at is that at this point, there is really no way of knowing the truth, yet people are basing a firm opinion on statements made by others who we really have no knowledge about. That's all I'm saying. You never know where people are coming from or what pressures might exist behind the scenes. I say it's a bit premature to say that because his ex says he was with her at the time that that exonerates him conclusively. There would have to be more corroborating evidence.

It's just the way people are so expedient about it..."OK well, he's innocent then"... that bothers me. You have to let the events unfold. It gets harder and harder to be patient and methodical in this culture. But I'm sure we've all had the experience of finding out that people aren't always what they seem. Sometimes you can be too rational these days, especially if you don't think twisted.

Hope I made myself clear:) Thanks for comment.

[Marie26]

67. There's such distrust now,

that I think the first reaction is to distrust anything we're hearing from the authorities. And maybe that distrust is justified. A thorough, careful prosecutor would never make such a high-profile arrest without some real evidence linking this person to the crime & w/o checking for possible alibis. We bystanders don't know what, if any evidence, they might have against this person. But I'm assuming a basic level of competence that might not exist here. The press conferences today were just bizarre.

[NJCher]

75. the prosecutor and possible groupthink

... that I think the first reaction is to distrust anything we're hearing from the authorities.

This case has been marked by nutcases from the beginning. That's really the thesis of Schindler's book. As far as the prosecutor goes, she could be a victim of groupthink. If you watched the Discovery Channel show about Lou Smit's (sp?) involvement in this case, you will know that the prosecutor's office did a 360 and instead of focusing on the parents, actually embraced the naysayers--those experts who come down on the side of an intruder. What I'm trying to say is that if those experts who thought it was an outsider were still part of the group, it could have led to a groupthink decision on the part of the prosecutor to bring this guy back.

Another thing to consider, and this is not my thinking (credit goes to mother earth), but if he were being detained in Thailand in a prison, there's a real strong motivation to lie to get into a U.S. prison.





Cher

[LostinVA]

78. And, as I posted down thread, LOU SMIT

The Ramseys' prayer buddy, is now a PI employed by the Ramseys... and he's one of the ones who the Colorado professor went to about Karr's emails... and Smit helped spearhead the whole Karr-prof-email thing. NOT law enforcement as said, and it was NOT law enforcement who started this whole thing and conferred with the Ramseys -- it was THEIR on-staff PI's. Led by someone who stated the Ramseys couldn't be involved because they were good Christians. There was no "months' long investigation. So, the media lied about THAT, too... I'm wondering if the DA's hand was forced to act in this...

I think Ramsey called some buddies he knew, who called some buddies (ICE) who pushed it on the DA... OR he threatened to go public with this and embarrass the DA. Notice it was done AFTER his wife had died and some mourning time had passed.

Yeah, people forget that the DA's office was buddy-buddy with the Ramseys' lawyers... it was the cops who went after the Ramseys.

All tres interesting, that's for sure.

[zreosumgame]

125. so they are bad because they pray?

and not hiding away from your prying eyes? And let's not forget the bang-up job the POLICE (your emphasis) did right from the get-go. Care to re-state your position? Or will you stand on incomplete and contaminated evidence you have to go on to press bigoted smears?

[LostinVA]

126. My, what a nice twisting of words and attack

No, I pray, so why would I be against someone who prays? I suggest you go play somewhere else if you want to keep putting words into my mouth.

A police officer should not become friends with a suspect. They should not think they are innocent merely because the suspects are "Good Christians" who share his/her religious beliefs. He threw aside his impartiality and publicly sided with the Ramseys while still a sworn officer. All of this led to his retirement... and apparently his hiring by Ramsey as a PI.

I suggest you apologize and learn some manners. Ad hominen attacks are against DU rules, you know. Which you do. And, your post is ugly, nasty, totally fucking incorrect about me and everything else, and a shame to you.

Fuck you. I debate, discuss, even have heated arguments on occasion. I don't read personal attacks and flame bait.

Ignore.

on edit: you apparently have some strange axe to grind against me, because your attack was personal and warrantless and baseless... but you also ahve a big problem understanding teh words "speculation" and "discussion."

[zreosumgame]

133. YOU made a big deal of being 'prayer buddies'

And you then went into wild speculations about things you 'think' you recall and then tied it all up to conclude the DA was forced by the Ramsy's to go this way. Got any proof of anything you said there? Or are you just doing a Bush and pulling great quantities of shit from you ass and throwing it at the walls and calling it pretty?

[coalition_unwilling]

121. Good points -- I haven't spent much time following case. I guess

we will find out more as the days continue.

GMA this morning announced that suspect had an initial DNA swab.

[Scout1071]

30. You could be right. I'm concerned that he claims he drugged her,

but her autopsy showed no drugs.

On the other hand, they say that he has confessed to details that were never known to the public.

On edit, I commend the Ramsey family. They have gone out of there way in every interview thus far to remind people that he is innocent until proven guilty, a luxury they were never afforded.

[Omaha Steve]

8. Wife says he was with her he says he drugged her, she wasn't drugged

This sounds like maybe he didn't do it. This will go on for awhile.

[HongKonger]

10. Note

He was under investigation for child porn in Thailand and this 'new' revelation means extradition back to the US for him... away from the Bangkok charges.

[redqueen]

19. Very good point. n/t

[saskatoon]

35. He was under investigation for child porn in Thailand and this 'new' revel

IN Thailand---child porn?---the capitol of every sexual perversity.

[goodhue]

37. From the New York Times . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/world/18ramsey.ready.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5094&en=f7518a0c2e074e85&hp&ex=1155873600&partner=homepage

* * *

An American official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that Mr. Karr had already come to the attention of American law enforcement officials in Thailand before the JonBenet investigation as part of a broader investigation into Americans who travel to Southeast Asian countries and engage in pedophilia-related activities.

* * *

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/world/18ramsey.ready.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5094&en=f7518a0c2e074e85&hp&ex=1155873600&partner=homepage

[Xeric]

11. Just more bullshit tabloid "news"

DA is backpedeling, the guy is a nutball who probably wasn't even in Colorado, and doesn't even have the facts of the murder right but the "news media" ran with the story.

Next up on MSNBCNNFOX: Did Ned Lamont(D-Al Queda) help kill JonBenet? You decide!

[AddieAnn]

13. Come on, people...

They would surely have to have more than just a confession to go to all the trouble of bringing him back here.

You'd think they would have to have some solid evidence. Supposedly this investigation has been going on with

him in mind for at least several months.

[goodhue]

15. But he is still in Bangkok

They have not yet brought him back to the US.

[atreides1]

17. Not really

Sometimes all it takes is a "confession" to get the police interested, especially in a high profile case like this.

It would seem that he was in contact with a journalism professor who made a documentary about the murder. Logic dictates that the professor had to have had some "off the record" information from the police in order to lend credibility to his documentary!

And let's not forget how well the Boulder PD did in its investigation of the crime initially.

1. If Karr's DNA isn't a match, then he made this up

2. His ex-wife has already said that they were in Alabama at the time of the murder, and that Karr had taken an interest in this murder and the Polly Klaas murder.

3. The only connection that they have is the fact that Karr lived in Atlanta when the Ramsey's did.

[goclark]

73. Was he a friend of the father's in Atlanta?

Jusr wondering?

[LostinVA]

79. He had zero connection with the Ramseys

And didn't even live in Atlanta when they did. He had moved away years earlier. He also never lived in Colorado before and during the crime, like he confessed.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. The days of me belieiving that the gov't knows more than I do are over

ever since the thoroughly predictable Iraq debacle, and the laughably incompetent Katrina mess.

Remember Cheney? "They haven't seen all the evidence we have..., etc." Ahem, whatever.

Anytime anyone says "Don't you think THEY know what they are doing," my answer is increasingly, "Er, no, I don't think these people we've hired to exercise competent authority have the slightest clue what they are doing."

Cheers!

[LostinVA]

27. No, they wouldn't need more evidence

I think the main evidence was his skipping out on a warrant for a different crime. They should have checked first to find out that 1.) he never lived in Colorado as he said he did, 2.) his ex has a solid alibi for him, and 3.) his version of the crime doesn't fir the facts.

He's skeevy, but innocent of this particular crime.

This latest bungle is unfortunately par for the course for this case...

[Marie26]

33. How do you know they didn't? nt

[LostinVA]

36. They never talked to his ex, so their investigation doesn't appear

to be all that exhaustive.

We'll just have to disagree on this, and see how it plays out. It should be interesting.

[Marie26]

38. We'll see what happens.

IMO, the DNA is ultimately what will make or break this case. I'll reserve judgment till the results are released.

[KurtNYC]

43. This investigation couldn't find water if it was standing

ankle-deep in the Pacific.

[NotGivingUp]

22. wouldn't doubt it with these media whores

[gorekerrydreamticket]

12. No sh*t, Sherlock...n/t

[rocktivity]

14. Maybe they were forced to make an arrest before the investigation was over

which might result in their not having enough evidence against him...

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[Marie26]

69. Then why arrest him?

I've now seen the press conferences, & there's something off. Why was the DA invoking "public safety" as a reason for an arrest? It should be based on the evidence of past crimes, not the danger of future crimes. Why was he paraded in front of the media like that? Why is ICE so involved? I almost got the feeling that this arrest now was sold to the DA. I'm speculating, & tin-foiling, & breaking my promise not to come to conclusions now. This man may well be guilty, but I got the sense that the decision to arrest & deport him now was actually driven by the ICE rather than the DA. Maybe I've been at DU too long.

[LostinVA]

80. Read my post #75

On why I think the DA went ahead with it....

[Marie26]

16. I'm very impressed with this DA. nt

[Junkdrawer]

20. The press could REALLY have egg on their faces on this one...

I mean, lie to aide the invasion of a country that kills 3000 US soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and the public forgets.

But get a child murder arrest wrong and there'll be hell to pay.

[OzarkDem]

21. Brother says suspect was writing a book on the case

Speaking before his brother admitted that he was with the girl in her family's basement when she died, Nate Karr speculated that research for a book on child killers had contributed to the arrest in Thailand.

"He was interested in getting into the minds of these people to write an expose manuscript," he said. "But I think he has got in too far and too deep without an explanation and the FBI picked up on it. He got his nose into where he shouldn't have got in.

"He was contacting people and trying to get the real feeling of why people do this, what they were doing, how they could possibly go about doing all this. He was trying to do it as in-depth as he could."

Mr Karr speculated that no physical evidence could link his brother to the murder.

"If they have DNA at the scene then, please, test it immediately so he can be vindicated," he said.


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20167430-601,00.html

[goodhue]

24. Latest from New York Times . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/world/18ramsey.ready.html?hp&ex=1155873600&en=f7518a0c2e074e85&ei=5094&partner=homepage

* * *

Ms. Lacy said prosecutors often make arrests before they have all the evidence lined up if there is a question of public safety or there is fear that the suspect might flee. While she mentioned Mr. Karr’s new job teaching in a school, and that he had moved from country to country in the last few years, she quickly added that she was not commenting on his case specifically.

* * *

One American official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of a continuing criminal investigation, cautioned against jumping too swiftly to the conclusion that someone who has confessed to a crime did in fact commit it. The official pointed out that it is not unusual in notorious cases, as the Ramsey case has surely become, for people to falsely claim that they committed the crime, basing their confessions on what they have read in the newspaper.

Even so, the official said, Mr. Karr “certainly knows a lot about it.” The official declined to provide any more details.

Mr. Karr, like the Ramsey’s, have roots in the South. Mr. Karr is from Alabama and later lived in Georgia, but some family members told reporters that he had never lived in Colorado.

* * *

Mr. Karr’s brother, Nate Karr, told Fox News that to his knowledge Mr. Karr had never lived in or visited Boulder, The Rocky Mountain News reported. Mr. Karr’s former wife, Lara Karr, told KGO-TV in San Francisco on Wednesday that while the couple was still married, her husband spent considerable time researching the Ramsey case and another notorious child murder case, that of Polly Klaas, who was abducted and killed in Petaluma, Calif., in 1993.

Ms. Karr said that she and Mr. Karr were in Alabama together on Dec. 25, 1996, the day JonBenet was killed in Colorado.

* * *

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/world/18ramsey.ready.html?hp&ex=1155873600&en=f7518a0c2e074e85&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. I think you'd remember if you spent a Christmas apart from your wife/hubby

Curiouser and curiouser...

[Chimichurri]

34. very bizarre. Why all the hoopla if there isn't even clear evidence

he was even involved. I want our justice system to be swift but more importantly, accurate.

[LostinVA]

39. The plot thickens -- Lou Smit has his hand in this`

I could totally get into some speculation right now... but I'll control myself. EXcept to say this his involvement, to ME, taints the whole email exchange with Karr. He is far too biased. And, it appears it was NOT law enforcement involved in this, but PIs hired by the Ramseys... including Smit. That changes things even more... to ME.

[goodhue]

40. yes, the reference to Lou Smit is indeed intruiging

Here is relevant passage from NYT . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/world/18ramsey.ready.html?pagewanted=3&ei=5094&en=f7518a0c2e074e85&hp&ex=1155873600&partner=homepage

According to accounts today in The Rocky Mountain News and The Denver Post, Boulder law enforcement officials began to focus on Mr. Karr in recent months because of e-mail exchanges Mr. Karr had over the course of four years with Michael Tracey, a journalism professor at the University of Colorado.

Mr. Tracey had made several documentaries about the case that challenged the work of the police and the public’s rush to blame the Ramseys for their daughter’s death; The News reported that Mr. Karr got in touch with Mr. Tracey after seeing one of the documentaries.

According to the newspaper, Mr. Tracey alerted private detectives hired by the Ramsey family about the correspondence with Mr. Karr, including Lou Smit, a former investigator for the Boulder district attorney’s office who resigned in 1998 in protest at the investigation’s focus on the parents.

The investigators encouraged Mr. Tracey to remain in contact with Mr. Karr, The News reported.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/world/18ramsey.ready.html?pagewanted=3&ei=5094&en=f7518a0c2e074e85&hp&ex=1155873600&partner=homepage

[LostinVA]

45. Interesting, eh? I went "Oh ho" aloud when I read that

[meisje]

41. Go ahead speculate, it's DU

[LostinVA]

44. Okay, I will!

Lou Smit: Boulder cop who resigned because he didn't like how the Ramseys were being targeted... because they were good Christian folk. Seriously. He crossed over the professional line, praying with them, becoming buddy buddy with them. He came up with the disproven stun gun theory. Now, I read in the times that HE'S involved with coordinating the email exchange between Karr and the prof... a dude who is now John Ramsey's PI, who knows pretty much everything about the case, has an agenda... The initial reports said law enforcement were involved in coordinating this.... but it wasn't. It was Ramsey's hired PIs. Karr's crazed rantings played right into Smit's pet theory of JonBenet's murder... there are people involved in this case from Boulder whom I don't trust. He's one. The cop that wrote the book fingering the Ramsey's is another. Too much agenda, too little sense of justice.

How's that?

[Junkdrawer]

47. Yeah. But how did Karr get facts not known to the General Public?

Oh, yeah, that's how.

[LostinVA]

48. Just my speculation

Also, as I said in another thread... that's facts to the general public. It doesn't mean they aren't known, and not posted all over forums.

[Junkdrawer]

49. Exactly. I know tons of facts about 9/11 "not known by the public"...

and I'm a minor league reader - not even a researcher.

[LostinVA]

52. Right -- exactly my point

I dated a cop for three years, and she and the other cops would talk about cases, people, etc. around town... things the "general public" didn't know.

[goclark]

88. We all know that GW is an idiot and 30%

of the public pretend they don't know that well known fact. :)

[LostinVA]

103. hehehe

[mountainvue]

72. When was the stun gun

theory disproved?

[NJCher]

76. re your speculation

How's that?

Bingo. Makes sense to me, especially that Christian fundie connection.

I'd like to know how somebody like Karr would know about the $118,000 bonus so he could allude to it in the note.




Cher

[LostinVA]

81. Thank you!

Yeah, forget EVERYTHING else -- just look at the ransom note. STINKY. To me, that's the key. Just like in Jeffrey McDonald's case, the blood trail was the key, for me... four family members, four different blood types, very unusual, McDonald didn't know that, some blood in some really weird places, etc.

Smit is a piece of work, at least from his interviews and what I've read.

[IndianaGreen]

54. The suspect's wife said that he was with her in Alabama when the murder

took place. I can't help but think that John Karr is a seriously disturbed individual, who could well be a pedophile, but that is not the same thing as saying that he murdered JonBenet. The Boulder police and prosecutors have made a mess of this case from day one, and I fear that they may be chasing another false lead.

As John Ramsey said, let's wait and see what happens before we all become hysterical as the media has.

[Sheltiemama]

57. On TV yesterday

I can't remember who -- maybe Mark Klaas -- said yesterday that if he were being held in a jail in Thailand, he'd admit to killing the Lindbergh baby to be sent back to the U.S.

[IndianaGreen]

58. It would be a shame to victimize the Ramseys for a trip home

Someone else said on MSNBC, and it wasn't Mark Klass, that Karr would prefer an American jail to a Thai one. I don't know, but the suspect did claim that he drove JonBenet home from school, and I just don't see anything that supports such a claim. I hope the prosecutors are not into another wild goose chase.

[LibDemAlways]

68. If he's claiming he drove her home from school,

he's just making up shit. In the first place, the murder happened Christmas night. There was no school that day. The Ramsey family went to the home of friends that evening and the Ramseys told investigators Jon Benet fell asleep in the car and they carried her upstairs to bed when they returned home. At some point she may have woken up, gone downstairs, and eaten some pineapple - as there was pineapple in her stomach, and it hadn't been served at the friend's home.

I think this guy is a whack job who has an unhealthy fascination with - but no involvement in - this case. The DA's comments today only reinforced my suspicions.

[IndianaGreen]

70. I am afraid that you are right

This guy is a mental case seeking 15 minutes of fame, and with an obsession with the Ramsey and Klaas cases.

[LostinVA]

82. My SO thinks he's fantasized so much about it

He thinks he did it -- with some twisted changes in place.

I wonder if he's a sociopath, or a total psychotic.

[goclark]

89. That always surprised me, how many children wake up and

eat pineapple slices in the middle of the night.

[LibDemAlways]

101. Could be either she ate some pineapple

before going over to the friends' house, she got up after being put to bed, or her parents lied about her falling asleep in the car and she was up and snacking when she arrived home. The devil is always in the details.

[LostinVA]

105. Per the autopsy, it couldn't be the first

Because of the state of digestion of the pineapple.

Yup, the devil is in the details!

[LibDemAlways]

106. Yep, eliminate option #1, and either

the child got up and was wandering around the house by herself at a late hour or she was still awake when she came in.

Most six year olds would wake the parents if they were hungry at night. Kids that age are likely to ask if it's ok if they have a certain item before eating it. I'm a little skeptical that she got up on her own and went downstairs to eat - although she certainly could have.

On the other hand, if she was awake when the family got back and she had a bedtime snack, then her parents lied to the police about the sequence of events that night.

You're right. One of many strange and loose ends about this case.

[LostinVA]

107. Yeah, and why lie about JB wanting a snack before bed?

That doesn't mess up any alibi, imo. It would actually take care of some weird questions.

A little girl may go downstairs by herself late at night, in the dark... but I would think probably not.

Who knows!!!

[LostinVA]

104. That was a very strange aspect of that case

Along with a thousand others...

[0007]

109. The home of friends (the Whites) the Ramsey's visited that night know

more than John & Patsy will admit.

This Kar guy is screwy and the DA is worse.

[LibDemAlways]

115. If all the DA has is this guy's delusions, she's

setting herself up for a big embarrassment.

[Wiley50]

62. I think I gotta use the John/Bidet

I'm a hermaphrodite

Can we please get back to wiping out the repukes folks?

[LostinVA]

83. There's a "Hide Thread" function

As you can see, this case interests many of us. We can discuss JB and everything else going on in the world.

[goodhue]

63. Latest from AP . . .

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14399340/

Questions linger in JonBenet confessor’s story

Details in suspect’s testimony, case raise doubts officials nabbed true killer

Associated Press

Updated: 34 minutes ago

BOULDER, Colo. - For a moment, it seemed the decade-old mystery surrounding the slaying of a child beauty queen had been solved. But authorities Thursday cautioned against rushing to judge the schoolteacher who made a stunning confession that he killed JonBenet Ramsey.

For now, the only public evidence against John Mark Karr is his own words. And questions have already been raised about the details of his story, including whether he drugged the 6-year-old girl, sexually assaulted her or was even in Colorado at the time of the slaying.

Those questions led some to wonder whether Karr was the answer to the long-unsolved slaying or a disturbed wannabe trying to insert himself into a high-profile case.

* * *

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14399340/

[tinfoilinfor2005]

66. If he is truly guilty or truly not guilty, we will find out in the end.

Why is it important for the general public to know everything until the final analysis. This kind of second guessing is what damns the innocent and does nothing more than make a big profit for the media.

[goodhue]

71. CBS News legal analyst Andrew Cohen frames the questions . . .

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/17/opinion/courtwatch/main1908695.shtml

JonBenet Killing Is Far From Solved

Andrew Cohen: Don't Expect Real Answers Any Time Soon

Aug. 17, 2006

(CBS) By CBS News legal analyst Andrew Cohen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We've all waited 10 years for answers. But it is clear from the "no comment" comments Thursday from Boulder, Colo., that we'll have to wait a little longer to figure out what's what with the JonBenet Ramsey murder mystery.

* * *

In the meantime, there are these questions:

What did the authorities know before Karr's stunning admissions that made them think he murdered the little girl in her Boulder home in late 1996?

Why did they arrest Karr now?

How will they explain away the testimony of, for example, Karr's ex-wife, who says she was with him that Christmas in Alabama?

What specifically is the incriminating information contained in those e-mails between Karr and college professor Michael Tracy, the Ramsey partisan who seems to have a Forrest Gump-like presence in this investigation?

Is there a scientific or physical link between Karr and the murder scene? And if that unmatched DNA from JonBenet's body does not match Karr, what are the prosecutors going to do then?

* * *

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/17/opinion/courtwatch/main1908695.shtml

[LostinVA]

85. More info about Karr's ex wife

In 1989, Karr got his then-16- year-old girlfriend, Lara Knutson, pregnant so they could marry legally in Georgia, according to divorce papers filed by Knutson in 2001, after Karr had been jailed for possession of child pornography. She wrote that her husband was demanding, cut her off from family and friends and blamed her for a miscarriage. She asked for a restraining order to protect her and the couple's three sons.

Knutson also claimed in the petition that her husband had been told by one school where he worked in either 1997 or '98 that he couldn't substitute teach any more because of a "tendency to be too affectionate with the children." She said she thought nothing of the remark until she became aware of the child pornography charges. The court granted her a restraining order and awarded Karr no visitation with his children.

Although Knutson could well provide an alibi for Karr in the JonBenét murder, she willingly assisted authorities' investigation in his child pornography case. "She has no vested interest in the Ramsey case," Rains said. "She wants to be a good witness for authorities to resolve the case."


http://www.denverpost.com/jonbenet/ci_4199089

[Nutmegger]

90. Legal analyst: break in Ramsey case could be hoax

DENVER (KUSA) - 9NEWS legal analyst Scott Robinson believes there are still too many questions about the suspect, John Mark Karr, to feel confident about conviction.

"In this particular case when you have an uncorroborated confession, I think it's good to be cynical and to be skeptical," Robinson said. "The suspect seems to be ducking questions about his connection to the Ramsey family. how the little girl came to be in the basement with him in the first place."

Robinson believes one thing is clear, however. This is the biggest development in the case so far.

"This is either the break that we have all been waiting for, or the biggest hoax that's ever been perpetrated in the JonBenet Ramsey case, a case that has had its share of wacky people involved in it."

Full article: http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=1cff0632-0abe-421a-00bc-e38b5a0628d7&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

[Purveyor]

91. The first interview I witnessed of this character, I thought this guy

is a flake and didn't commit the crime he is confessing to.

[KalicoKitty]

98. I felt the same about John Karr

From day one, I suspected Patsy Ramsey. She was definitely guilty, however, just by putting her out in the public like a Las Vegas showgirl!

As far as the pervert Karr goes, I hope the sicko is locked up forever!

[donheld]

92. That analyst seemed to be on the ball

I'm thinking it's a hoax. Too many weird things about it.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

93. Hoax... I agree.

a sad man looking for attention.

He was in TN? and his story is not checking out.


But at least cable news had a few days where they didn't have to report anything of substance.

:sarcasm:


:mad:

[IndyJones]

94. Was he being charged for anything in Bangkok that would make

him want to leave there? I've been thinking all day that this seems too strange.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

95. dunno...

I'm just going by his story (the parts I've heard. Thank you KO).

He says he picked her up at school that day... but she was on Xmas break.

His X-wife also says he was in TN at the time, no-where near CO. :shrug:

something smells.

[LostinVA]

100. Alabama, I think it was

They were living there with their kids then.

[knight_of_the_star]

96. I wonder if he's being put up to do it

That is the only reason I can think of that would make sense, child rapists and murderers are often put into isolation from the general population so they aren't literally torn to pieces.

[barb162]

97. I want to know what he was doing picking up the kid and how he

ended up in the basement with the kid. It was Xmas break, right? No school? Why wasn't he a prime suspect from the get-go if he was picking the kid up from school?

[KalicoKitty]

99. How could he have done it if he was in Alabama at the time?

That is what his (ex?) wife said, anyway.

[Supersedeas]

102. So why would the FEDS get involved if more work is needed--DISTRACTION

The Media has taken the bate hook line and sinker AGAIN

[HuffleClaw]

111. translation: we're gonna milk this for all its worth.

its an ELECTION YEAR. wonder how long they'll manage to keep the media hounds fed and watered with useless tidbits of 'news'.

[QuettaKid]

112. ..

[BlueInPhilly]

117. A rush to convict the Ramseys

and now a rush to acquit Karr? Personally, I am offended by your picture, QuettaKid. Mrs. Ramsey is dead, she was never charged with anything, and why be wary of anyone who prays? I pray... I might not appear on TV, but I pray. The press followed the Ramseys around, floated absurd allegations against them (including a "mistress" who eventually just quietly disappeared), and when they did something publicly that wasn't to the press' liking - maybe, like... praying? - they were once again flogged by the court of public opinion?

I don't know the Ramseys, I would never ever want to be in their shoes - they've already been charged, tried, and convicted by the public - this isn't even about them anymore. It's about a disturbed guy. Give them a break!

[QuettaKid]

119. Her parents killed her.nt.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Akim]

129. That was the problem: There was no "rush" to convict Ramseys. n/t

[LostinVA]

134. Agreed -- the Boulder DA's office was buddy-buddy with the Ramseys

The DA had a major business and personal conflict of interest.

Most children are NOT harmed or killed by strangers. They are usually harmed or/and killed by a parent or a parent's spouse or lover. Sometimes by other "inner circle" people: babysitters, uncles, neighbors, etc.

The DA's office refused to treat the Ramseys as real suspects. Then, some of the cops refused to entertain anyone as suspects but the Ramseys. Then there's Lou Smit. But, the DA called the shots, and handled things very badly.

Ugh. This case could have been handled so differently. A "real" investigation and DA would have solved this thing and given JonBenet some justice.

[goodhue]

113. Patsy Ramsey "almost met" with John Kerr in May 2006!?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/18/AR2006081800440.html

JonBenet's Mom Almost Met With Suspect

By CATHERINE TSAI and JON SARCHE

The Associated Press

Friday, August 18, 2006; 11:49 AM

BOULDER, Colo. -- Authorities asked Patsy Ramsey in late May _ a month before she died of cancer _ whether she would be willing to meet with the man who claims he killed her 6-year-old daughter, the Ramsey family's attorney said Friday.

Ramsey said she would meet with John Mark Karr if it would advance the investigation into JonBenet Ramsey's Christmastime 1996 slaying, but the meeting never took place because authorities did not get back to her before she died in June, attorney Lin Wood said.

The attorney also said the written correspondence Karr sent to Patsy Ramsey either in the form of e-mails or letters was never received by her because it was routed to someone else. He said police or someone else set up an address for the correspondence to be sent to make it look like he was writing to Ramsey. It was turned over to the police instead.

"He thought that he was corresponding with Patsy, but he wasn't," Wood told The Associated Press.

* * *

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/18/AR2006081800440.html

[LiberalHeart]

114. Just posted: a link to the Karr emails on DU Breaking News

Interesting reading.

[goodhue]

116. thanks

Here is link to your post . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2463507

[gorekerrydreamticket]

120. Why is the attorney putting this out today, 2 days into this thing?

Everything about this is fishy. My theory about this case still stands. The brother had a temper tantrum and killed JB and the mother covered it up with the bizarre ransom note and the rope around the neck.

[mithnanthy]

124. I agree, gorekerrydreamticket

My theory was that exactly. I also believe that a 6 year old little girl could have picked up all kinds of DNA under her nails from crawling on rugs in her own house and at the other people's houses as they played with toys on Christmas. Gross as the thought is, the reported wood splinters found in her could be from a molesting brother using the handle end of the paint brush found. There is reported evidence of previous molestation of some sorts. The brother lived in Jon Bonet's shadow. Her beauty and attention she received from all the pagents and preparation for each, must have pushed the brother over the edge. His anger could have caused an accidental death rather than a deliberate desire to murder her. I believe he was filled with jealousy over getting only a portion of the attention, she regularily received. I believe the Ramsey's covered up his crime, to spare the family the shame. On the 911 call, statements can be heard, from the Ramsey's, saying to their son in the background, something to the effect that they weren't speaking to him right now, in a stern, put-off voice. They couldn't stand the thought of their young son being charged and punished, and the extreme scandal it would be in their society. I believe Patsy and John Ramsey loved Jon Bonet without doubt, but that the brother hated his sister. And the parents covered it up to protect their son. That's my 2 cents.

[Akim]

127. It Was Not Her 9-Year-Old Brother Who Savaged JonBenet

Can you possibly be serious? The boy was 9 years old when his sister was killed. He did not have the physical strength to inflict the injuries that were visited on this child. JonBenet was strangled with such force that the cord become embedded in her neck and was not visible to the eye. Her head was smashed with a heavy object causing an 8-inch crack. This was not the work of a nine year-old boy. It was the work of a grown man. And the only adult male that was in the house at the time of JonBenet's murder was her father John Ramsey.

It was clearly an incestuous act on his part abetted by a jealous mother.

[goclark]

131. I always and unless proven otherwise believed John Ramsey

did it.

I read the other day that the "room in the basement" where it took place was not even known to the maid.

Sounds to me a place where some sickos met to perform acts that the Mother ignored until that night.

John Ramsey was in that basement that night IMO.

[marions ghost]

130. is there any reason to believe

based on known evidence, that the brother was jealous at all? Maybe he was glad not to get such "attention." I mean is there any real evidence that would make the brother a suspect? Did he have behavioral problems? Is anything known about him at all, or is this more media speculation?

I don't remember the details of this case--didn't they do DNA testing of family members?

I think that the brother killing out of hate is far-fetched. I might believe by accident, but there is too much evidence of violence.

[Akim]

128. At least Patsy died happy in the knowledge that her efforts to...

cover-up for her husband had succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. There was a nutcase out there who was willing to take the blame in exchange for 15 minutes of fame.

[RCinBrooklyn]

132. Real News: Iraq, Bin Laden, Israel, Gas Prices, Healthcare, Election Fraud

[goodhue]

135. Kick for lack of charges