A unified opposition in Venezuela (oh sure...)

[Say_What]

LOL first the article says that Rosales is the "man to watch out for" and then they say that "opinion polls place Rosales trailing behind Chavez, with just 7% of the vote." Also, the *opposition* likes this guy because he has enough dinero to fund his own campaign.

<clips>

After a whistle-stop foreign tour that involved courting new oil buyers and sealing arms deals, Hugo Chavez is back at Miraflores palace in Caracas to officially embark on his re-election campaign.

Recent opinion polls suggest that Chavez is the clear favorite to win the Venezuelan presidential elections scheduled on December 3. In a recent poll, 56% of respondents said that they would re-elect Chavez, giving the polemic leader another six years in power.

But there are other aspiring presidential candidates who Chavez cannot afford to ignore completely.

The man to watch out for is Manuel Rosales, a former school teacher and current governor of the oil-rich state of Zulia, who claims that "Venezuelan democracy is sick".

Rosales, 53, has already won an important hurdle. He has managed to convince various opposition parties that he is the man to back. He has mobilized considerable support and united the majority of anti-Chavista opposition parties to back him as the official and only opposition candidate. As such, other rivals have withdrawn their candidacies and the primary election to choose a presidential candidate to stand against Chavez has been cancelled.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/anastasia_moloney/2006/08/anastasia_moloney.html

[unpossibles]

1. by "unified" maybe they mean

all of the anti-Chavez people are unified, since they don't seem to mean the people themselves are against Chavez.

[Vidar]

32. Or that their financing is all coming from the same place--the USA.

[unpossibles]

40. bingo

especially since the article's data contradicts the headline.

[goforit]

2. Yep! The NYT and Rosales and DicK Morris = the new coup de tat!!

roflmao!!!!

Rove is just losing his touch!

[Judi Lynn]

3. He sounds like an utter ass: hoping to get close to the Presidents

of Peru and Colombia, both backed heavily by the _Bush administration.

Yeah, he's got some real nerve, in a country which has, with U.S. help, kicked the poor to the curb, and mowed them down in the streets when they protested, thanks to the _Bush friend, the corruption-impeached scum Carlos Andres Perez, who is still active and popular with the Venezuelan oligarchy, from his homes in New York and Miami, calling out regularly for the assassination of Hugo Chavez.

[Bacchus39]

11. what nerve he has running against Chavez!!!!

what the hell do we even need an election in Venezuela for Judy??

look at these right wing ideas he is proposing:

Rosales, described as a social democrat, is focusing on social reform and a fairer redistribution of oil profits. He plans to use oil income to give the unemployed, estimated to be 13% of the population, a minimum monthly salary.

Rosales also wants Venezuela to stop handing out free barrels of oil as if it were sweets for well-behaved children. "While there are still hungry children and unemployed people in Venezuela," said Rosales, "the country will stop giving away free oil, and oil at reduced prices, to foreign nations."

He also promises to release all political prisoners immediately if elected to power. There is a growing perception that crime is increasing, a factor that Rosales will eagerly exploit as a weakness of the Chavez regime.

While pushing for greater social reform, Rosales wants to restore often tense diplomatic relations with Venezuela's traditional Andean partners, such as Colombia and Peru, and improve antagonistic relations with the US.

[BushOut06]

26. Your last statement just said everything you need to know

"and improve antagonistic relations with the US."

Who's fault is it that? This guy wants to come in and start kissing Bush's ass to try to curry favor with the US? No thanks. While this guy is busy promising everything to everybody, Chavez is busy actually trying to run a country. And I say he's doing a pretty damned good job. What exactly is Chavez doing wrong that he needs to be replaced? This Rosario sounds like a conservative wingnut trying to disguise himself as a socialist. Considering that he's only getting 7% support, sounds like most of his fellow countrymen can see right through his shallow disguise.

[Bacchus39]

29. that statement is from the article, not mine

and I see nothing wrong with it. do you not favor improved relations between Venezuela and the USA? Chavez said publicly that if Garcia won in Peru he would break off relations with Peru. He won, so now Peru and Ven have tense relations. This is the type of "leader" you admire? heck sounds like something OUR idiot Bush would do.

Venezuelans will decide if Chavez needs to be replaced. enough did in 2004 to have a recall election.

[BushOut06]

33. I can't speak for Peru

But regarding the US, the Bush regime is primarily responsible for the tense relations with Venezuela. Heck, it's almost as if Bush has gone out of his way to antagonize Chavez.

[Bacchus39]

34. I would say that the relationship is mutual

Chavez isn't exactly Mr. Diplomacy either unless he is talking with Cuba or Iran.

[BushOut06]

36. Sounds like RW talking points

Chavez actually offered to sell oil directly to poor areas of the United States for a reduced rate. Doesn't exactly sound like something that a rabidly anti-American leader would do, does it? Guess who nixed the idea? Good old Bushie himself! I'd say that Chavez cares about the poor in this country more than our own president does.

[Bacchus39]

41. Chavez doesn't care about the poor in the US

he cares about scoring political points. you are utterly naive.

[Ka hrnt]

37. Agree with what you say here in this subthread.

The guy's trying to repair damaged relationships and stop giving away Venezuela's resources, redirecting them to Venezuelans, yet they attack him. Looks like a knee-jerk defense of Chavez...

[GirlinContempt]

38. Because we ALL know that politicians

do what they say they'll do. But I think the reaction is more to the involvement and backing of the United States than anything.

[Acadia Blue]

35. The USA has always backed despotic right wing leaders in South,

and Central America. Most people don't know that. This country has stopped democratic reform there for the interest of American corporations.

[PeaceProgProsp]

4. 7% is probably exactly the % of Venezuelans who believe their

democracy is sick.

How does he plan on picking up support when his message is based on a premise with which almost nobody agrees?

[Bacchus39]

5. why even have an opposition party or an election?

I mean with Chavez who else do you need? is Democracy really even that important when you got a guy like Chavez? maybe Venezuelans will get lucky and all the opposition party members will die or get arrested and Chavez can run against himself like during the recall election.

[PeaceProgProsp]

6. Lucky, like when he wasn't killed during the right wing coup in April 02?

[Bacchus39]

8. yeah, and too bad he wasn't successful in his own coup attempt

in 1992. He could have done to Venezuela what Castro did to Cuba by now.

[Richard Steele]

18. No kidding. By now, he might very well have...

...given Venezuelans a higher literacy rate
and a lower infant mortality rate than the USA,
just like Castro did to Cuba.

[Bacchus39]

19. literacy by any means necessary

I am aware of several nations in Western Europe and in Asia that have a high literacy rate and excellent health care without the government oppression and censorship of Cuba.

oh yeah, provide info on the literacy rate and infant mortality rate of Ven. versus the US.

[Richard Steele]

21. Those rates: Venezuela vs. the US? OK.

In a nutshell:
In Venezuela, those rates are getting BETTER,
while here in the US they are getting WORSE.

[Bacchus39]

22. I see the USA tied for 1st link included

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

I see the US AHEAD of Cuba. I see Venezuela behind their neighbors Trinidad and (gasp!) Colombia.

nothing wrong with improving literacy and having a reasonable health care system though. doesn't mean I will participate in the Chavez coronation.

[Richard Steele]

27. WikiPedia is not a reliable source for ANYTHING, and we all know it.

But that aside, I do agree with the opinions you express
in those last two sentences.

I am NEVER going to participate in the coronation of ANYONE.
And I am not silly enough to think that Venezuela is a better
place to live than the USA, or that it will be anytime soon.

I just believe in giving credit where due. And in Ven. I see
a nation that is improving, working to make life better for
its citizens, one step at a time.
While here in the US, I see exactly the opposite, and I see
it happening at a much faster rate.

[Bacchus39]

30. I see that in the US too

not much happening to improve the lot of the citizenry. not that Americans are struggling comparitively or don't have it easy compared to Colombians, Venezuelans, Mexicans, or most of latin america.

[PeaceProgProsp]

31. Or he could have done what he's doing now in '92

but it's all the sweeter to have it done democratically. It makes it harder for the right wingers to complain.

[robcon]

7. You should put the sarcasm emoticon.

Some might think you're serious.

[Bacchus39]

10. you mean he hasn't already been annointed yet??

oh yeah, the election. a mere formality.

[killbotfactory]

14. Sucks having a popular president

[Bacchus39]

20. so you don't see any point to an election then?

n/t

[killbotfactory]

39. Actually I do

It's not Hugo's fault the opposition parties have castrated themselves.

[TankLV]

12. Same bullshit - different day - no proof to back it up - only your repuke

dreams...

[Bacchus39]

24. back what up?? my support for elections??

and yours? I would certainly not bet against Chavez but that doesn't mean I am going to disparage the opposition without giving them an opportunity. The leading opposition guys seems to have some good proposals and seems reasonable. more so than Chavez. wow, proposing improved relations with your neighbors and not trying to influence other countries' elections and acting like a baby when they don't go your way. what a concept!!

Venezuelans are entitled to a choice don't you agree? Cuba too.

[GirlinContempt]

28. Of course they're entitled to a choice.

And they've had one. They just keep picking their one same choice over and over again.

[Megahurtz]

9. Oh Fucking No!!!

:banghead: Don't tell me they're going to rig this election too!

I know I'm being pessimistic but these Neocons are everywhere
getting their tenticles in everything like fucking parasites!

[killbotfactory]

13. Venezuela has some of the most monitored elections on Earth

They have been verified as accurate and fair.

The opposition can't win because they don't appeal to most of the people in Venezuela.

However that never stops the claims of dictatorship/vote fraud/etc...

[Megahurtz]

15. Well I hope you're right.

:)

[Say_What]

42. Carter Center and Election Monitoring in Venezuela

<clips>

...Election Monitoring

... In its first year, the Chávez administration put forth a referendum on a new constitution, which, in December 1999, drew the support of 71 percent of voters. Every elected opposition position in the country was then presented to the voters again in 2000.

...Since Chávez' reelection, many in the country felt he was undermining democracy through his confrontational style and policies. Opposition parties organized mass protests and a general strike. The government and opposition groups had become so polarized, the political crisis threatened Venezuela's stability. At the invitation of the government and several opposition groups, The Carter Center joined the Organization of American States and the United Nations Development Programme in August 2002 to begin a formal process to help resolve Venezuela's political crisis.

The international tripartite working group began talks in early November 2002 between the government and opposition political and civil society groups to move the country beyond the current crisis. OAS Secretary General César Gaviria led the talks, with the advice of The Carter Center and the technical support of UNDP. President Carter had made a trip to the country in July 2002, to lay the groundwork for negotiations. Amid those negotiations in late 2002, a two-month general strike occurred, shutting down oil production and many other businesses.

...After six months of intense negotiations, the OAS and the Center helped Venezuela's government and opposition agree in May 2003, on terms for a possible referendum on whether embattled President Chávez should step down. Under the country's constitution, such a vote can be held after the mid-way mark in Chávez' term - August 2004.

...After the accord, the Center and the OAS were invited by the CNE to observe the entire recall effort. Along the way, the Center and the OAS worked with both sides and with the electoral authorities to get consensus on the "rules of the game" at each step of the process. After a long and contentious period of verifying signatures requesting a recall, frustration grew. The delay in announcing the number of validated signatures and the preliminary disqualification of many of the signatures led to massive protests in Caracas that turned violent in February 2004. Sufficient signatures were eventually verified in June 2004, triggering a recall vote on Aug. 15, 2004. President Chávez won almost 60 percent of the vote so he will complete the remainder of his term, which ends in December 2006.

http://www.cartercenter.org/activities/showdoc.asp?countryID=87&submenuname=activities


Carter Center Representative Francisco Diez signs the accord as a witness to Venezuela's government and opposition agreeing to respect human rights, freedom of expression, and the right to petition for recall referenda of elected officials.

[Richard Steele]

16. When 70% of Americans oppose B*shCabal™ policy, it's a "leftist fringe"

...but when 7% of Venezualans oppose Chavez, it's a "unified opposition".

[Judi Lynn]

17. Absolutely right, dicksteele!

Here's a photo of Venezuelan "opposition" members when they learned they had enough signatures to go ahead with their fabulous recall attempt in 2004. It was a very big day for them.

[eccles12]

23. I hope Chavez has an excellent intel capability.

We can all assume that Venezuela has been infiltrated with some of the "wests" best infiltrators sent there to foment chaos and to try to assassinate Chavez. i hope Chavez lives long enough to do the right thing for the people and the nation.

[Judi Lynn]

25. Good post, eccles12! You're not alone.

They've tried everything under the sun already, and some of it has been violent, since they had him kidnapped at the point of a gun, and taken to that island where they had that American plane waiting, which has been identified by witnesses. God only knows where he would have been if his people had not rescued him.
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