NYT: Bush Said to Be Frustrated by Level of Public Support in Iraq

[kskiska]

President Bush made clear in a private meeting this week that he was concerned about the lack of progress in Iraq and frustrated that the new Iraqi government — and the Iraqi people — had not shown greater public support for the American mission, participants in the meeting said Tuesday.

(snip)

“I sensed a frustration with the lack of progress on the bigger picture of Iraq generally — that we continue to lose a lot of lives, it continues to sap our budget,” said one person who attended the meeting. “The president wants the people in Iraq to get more on board to bring success.”

Another person who attended the session said he interpreted Mr. Bush’s comments less as an expression of frustration than as uncertainty over the prospects of the new Iraqi government. “He said he really didn’t quite have a sense yet of how effective the government was,” said this person, who, like several who discussed the session, agreed to speak only anonymously because it was a private lunch.

More generally, the participants said, the president expressed frustration that Iraqis had not come to appreciate the sacrifices the United States had made in Iraq, and was puzzled as to how a recent anti-American rally in support of Hezbollah in Baghdad could draw such a large crowd. “I do think he was frustrated about why 10,000 Shiites would go into the streets and demonstrate against the United States,” said another person who attended.

more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/washington/16policy.html?ref=washington

[Singular73]

1. ROFLMAO

We invaded, occupied, and killed 100,000 of your countrymen.

WHY ARENT YOU GRATEFUL?????

Idiot.

[saigon68]

21. CHIMPANZEE's PUPPETS not performing up to expectations

LOL

[gratuitous]

36. Until morale improves, the slaughter will continue

Embrace us, dammit! Love us!

Shit, and they have the nerve to call us pacifists starry-eyed idealists.

[brg5001]

43. So now, he's actually CONSULTING academics and experts?

For years, the right has been telling us that academics, policy experts and experienced diplomats are evil LIIIBERALLLLS.

Wowwww. So after an imperialism-laden five years of playing global cowboy, he's asking for help and advice from outside experts -- ACADEMICS? I thought that universities and think-tanks were for liberal bedwetters and sissies! Screw the elites, damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead. We're taking the fight to the enemy. I hear the voices, but I'm the decider. Freedom is on the march. We're at a turning point in history. Arabic? We don't need no stinking Arabic. Fire every gay translator even if we have to use mime and hand-waving to try to communicate in the very country we are trying to "save". There! Mission accomplished. Oops, maybe not.

Now, he's frustrated because LIBBBBERAAALLLL historians, diplomats, military experts, and generals are 'splainin to the Frat Boy King that occupations are frought with danger under the BEST circumstances, and that NATION-BUILDING requires not just foresight, planning and an array of committed, supportive allies, but also the cooperation of people and governments who you DON'T WANT TO TALK TO -- and even then, it's rarely successful. As W so mal-appropriately put it, "I wouldn't want to be occupied."

Teddy Roosevelt's admonition to "Walk softly and carry a big stick" actually means that you should SHUT THE F*** UP and not engage in bellicose rhetoric, finger-pointing and ineffective flag-waving. Now Bush is frustrated because his version of Teddy's "Splendid Little War" isn't resulting in rainbows and sunshine?

Maybe he should have listened to the litany of godless LIBBBERALLLLS in and out of government who were telling him -- over and over --that this was going to be a MOTHER-F*&^ING FIASCO. Instead, he handed out Medals of Freedom to all the people who told him that it would be over in time for '04. What a complete, utter, and miserable failure! It must be the media's fault.

But wait! Every embryo is sacred and gays can't destroy our marriages, so who cares? Talladega Nights is playing. America can go back to sleep now. Good thing that rock-ribbed Bush loyalists are in charge and on the job.

NOTE: This is essentially a repost from a similar thread that highlighted the exact same NYT article. Sorry if it's a repeat for you.

[Lisa]

46. it would be funny if it weren't so tragic ...

Very well put, brg5001! I believe you understand Georgie better than he himself ever will.

"Instead, he handed out Medals of Freedom to all the people who told him that it would be over in time for '04. What a complete, utter, and miserable failure! It must be the media's fault."


And welcome to DU!

[brg5001]

47. Thanks Lisa. True, it's tragicomedy...

I'm trying to have some fun with it all. It's the only way I can keep from going completely bonkers. Thanks for the warm welcome...I'm really enjoying DU!

[Lisa]

48. feast your eyes on this!

All the tragicomedy one could -- well, not so much desire or want -- imagine, maybe? I am constantly amazed by how (inadvertently) hilarious these people can be -- they're quite, quite mad. It may be a good thing that they have made this so obvious, since even their supporters are starting to catch on!

http://www.dubyaspeak.com

[Submariner]

2. YEAH!!!

I bomb the shit out of their country and they don't show no appreciation or support. :eyes:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

3. “He said he really didn’t quite have a sense yet ...

of how effective the government was.”

What does he think that burning smell is? Toast?

[Bozita]

4. This paragraph says it all

from the NYT article:

Participants said Mr. Bush appeared serious and engaged during the lunch, which lasted more than 90 minutes, as the experts went through a lengthy discussion of the political, ethnic, religious and security challenges in Iraq. And through it all, Mr. Bush showed no signs of veering from the administration’s policies to support the new government and train Iraqi security forces to take over the fight, and only then bring American troops home.

[Lindacooks]

7. Wow! He managed to concentrate on something for 90 minutes???

Isn't that some kind of record for him?

[City Lights]

44. They musta upped his meds. eom

[momster]

27. Oh, it says it all, all right.

Nothing any expert or experienced advisor can say or do will change his 'vision' of Iraq. His truth is the only truth he can comprehend. Everything else is just twisted to fit. "Intelligent design' applied to politics leads to disaster.

[Kagemusha]

5. Someone answer me this... was it only 10,000 Shiites?...

I thought it was more than that.

[leftchick]

31. It was a lot more than that

I posted photos at the time and it could easily have been hundreds of thousands.

[savemefromdumbya]

6. People are bored with Iraq and know that Bush lied to them

[ixion]

19. Yeah, the Iraqis are bored to death... often times with US bullets

:-(

[truthisfreedom]

8. you've got to catapult the propaganda, mr. president! do what you always

do! lie! just tell them they're having a great time, and nobody's dying that much!

[HuffleClaw]

9. he really DOES believe the propaganda they 'catapult' !

what a deluded sad little man

[Strawman]

10. Daddy can't rig this outcome for him

Perhaps a tantrum will do the trick?

:sarcasm:

It's mind boggling and beyond tragic that the lives of so many people are in the hands of this utter buffoon.

And the people who are supposed to save us all from this nonsense and take the country in a "new direction" (if I see that focus group tested phrase in my inbox again, I'll seriously fucking barf) are the same people who didn't have the guts to challenge this guy when he started this war.

I'm so disgusted with politics.

[turbo_satan]

11. Perfect reply, Strawman. Absolutely perfect.

I've been trying for five years to find a single sentence that crystallizes the many-tentacled octopus of tragedy that is the Bush (mis)administration. You nailed it with this:

"It's mind boggling and beyond tragic that the lives of so many people are in the hands of this utter buffoon."

I would be honored if I could steal that as a sig line (with attribution, of course). May I?

[Strawman]

12. Sure

Absolutely. Be my guest.

I saw I had a reply and figured it was going to be someone taking me to task for a lack of partisan giddiness over our "campaign message" in the latter part of my post. So your kind words came as a much needed pleasant surprise. Thanks.

[turbo_satan]

23. Check out my new sig...

[David__77]

13. It wasn't 10,000, it was 100,000.

No one likes the role of the US or Israel in Iraq.

[DLnyc]

14. Do I believe shrub has suddenly become interested in actual policy

and reality after 6 years of nothing but spinning, lying, spinning, stealing, spinning, killing and more spinning?

No, actually I believe KKKRove told him he has to make it LOOK like he has an interest in policy and reality, so they arranged a meeting and 'leaked' comments to the Times.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/DLnyc/1

[radfringe]

15. You can't force democracy on a people

a change in government does not immediately mean a change in a society

the bushies/GOPers like to compare Iraq's democracy to our American revolution. They have often pointed out how long it took for our revolution and establishment of our government took. True it did take time, however our society/culture at that time had already developed some level of independence away from England

During our colonial times, we were seperated from England by distance. It often took several months for a communication to get to England and back again. This left the colonial governors on their own.

If threatened by an outside force or a natural disaster - the colonial governor could not pick up a phone or send an e-mail asking for help. We had to deal with the situation without governmental help.

The majority of "Americans" were born here, raised here and England was a distant land, Parliment was some vague body of legislators, and King George was an illustration in a newspaper. We had a few generations of people who never set foot in England, and their only connection to England was perhaps seeing a flag.

Iraq has had many generations living under a very controlling government, and they are accustomed to that cultural form where people are told what to do and what not to do. Independence and free thinking is not a part of their society.

Think of it as being institutionalized. The situation is the same, except on a cultural scale. When a person has been in a prison or otherwise confined for many years in a facility where their daily lives are controlled by someone else it is difficult for them to adjust to suddenly having to make decisions for themselves. To go from total control to independence overnight and succeed just doesn't happen. This is a reason for half-way houses, it gives some level of independent living while still providing controls.

In Iraq's situation - we've opened the doors to the insititution and told people "Hey, you're free, you're on your own." On a societal scale, Iraqi's aren't going to adjust overnight, nor in a few years - it's going to take 2-3 generations before they even get to the point of accepting the idea of a democracy. the bush-plan has no half-way houses.

Military control is not enough nor is it an appropriate mechanism for nurturing a democracy. By its nature a democracy is nurtured by the people and the people have to be taught how to take care of it. The bush-plan never made provisions to educate and teach the Iraqi's what it means to live in a democracy (and it still doesn't). The bushies/GOPers are depending on a military machine, they are using the stick instead of the carrot.

Bringing "freedom" to a people is not a timeline plan where "A" leads to "B". It's a multitude of levels which needs to happen simultaneously. It needs to happen on an environmental level (i.e. substantial reduction of violence), it needs to happen on an infra-structural level (hospitals, schools, utilities, etc), it needs to happen on an economic level (stores, factories, businesses) and it needs to happen on a societal level where people have confidence in their government and not see it as a just changing the name on a building.

[nolabels]

24. Yea but you can force fascism into a democratic country

I am living a kind of normal middle of the road existence but I know it will be short lived because of the poor leadership. Many facets of our now crumbling society are top heavy and more concerned about serving the corporate and institutional executives than they are about their own infrastructure. We don't suffer from material need so much but more from lack of direction. This is a situation just ripe for totalitarian and or fascist dictators. When you are constantly being pushed aside or led astray so others may get the upper hand to cheat you, then that 'little to believe' goes hand and hand.

[radfringe]

28. imposing fascism or other totalarian oppressive governments is easy

all you need to do is to keep the people in a constant state of fear, and guns will take care of those who are not afraid...

[xchrom]

16. 2600+ dead soldiers and who knows how many iraqis

and bush appears frustrated?:eyes:

hellllooooo? news flash! -- he doesn't care!

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. "Dammit, we gave them Abu Ghraib, Fallujah and Haditha"

"why aren't these people grateful? We lay on extra fireworks at wedding celebrations - so what if some people get a little hurt at them? We gave them free access to any goods in their cities so they could loot what they wanted. And let them do the same at the arms depots. And don't forget that of the 'aid' we've given Iraq, 90% has been stolen in corruption and theft. Can't they see how good that all is for the Iraqi economy? And we've helped them do their bit to combat global warming, by getting electricity generation to levels below those under Saddam. Can't they see the great opportunities we have afforded them all?"

[saigon68]

22. A ROSE PETAL PARADE FOR MERCENARIES ends up poorly

[0007]

25. ......another Midland Texas boy bringing moral values to the Iraqis

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/07/04/stevengreen_narrowweb__300x336,0.jpg
Steven D. Green arrested for rape of a 14 year old girl and murder of her family after he tried to burn the bodies.....

[saigon68]

32. A nice example of amerika's fighting men

Nice shirt the fuck has on

[maxrandb]

34. I think it's a Johnny Cash shirt

and Johnny Cash is "the shit". Me thinks this guy has little in common with Johnny Cash.

No accounting for fans, they come in all psychoses. Bob Dylan said once that he didn't really care much what his fans thought, because after all, it was a fan that killed John Lennon.

[saigon68]

37. Looks like Cash

Oh well I think Dylan nailed it. Most adults like the music, they make their buying decisions on the quality of the music--not how KOOL the artist is.

[bklyncowgirl]

18. Bush & crew still in NeverNeverLand

Let's see, Democracy will flourish and one by one these despotic Middle East regimes will crumble as their people demand their freedom. That's the way it's supposed to work, isn't it?

Unfortunately, that isn't the way it works. They had elections in Iran and instead of some nice pro-western centrist they elected the craziest nutjob SOB on the block. In Palestine they had elections. Hamas won. In Iraq the majority of the people, who happen to be Shiites & a formerly oppressed minority voted for, this is a shock, the Shiite party. Now the Shiites are out to get the Sunnis for everything that was done to them by Saddam Hussein and other Sunni leaders over the centuries.

Bush will nod (Karl told him to cut the smirk) and make like he understands the experts, but in the end the neocons will continue to do what they've been doing because in their little fantasy world the violence and the bloodshed is only the prequel to their vision of a new improved Middle East.

[GeorgeGist]

20. Here's some food for 'thought' ...

" The White House would not comment on the details of the discussion but a senior official warned against drawing conclusions on what the president thinks based on questions he asked in the process of drawing out the invited guests."

:wtf:

[Vinca]

26. This is the first time in Shrub's life that Daddy can't step in and

make it all better. What an idiot.

[Jacobin]

29. Who would a thunk it? Iraqis didn't appreciate Shock and Awe

:rofl:

[focusfan]

30. Bush is a sorry excuse

for a president and man

[mcscajun]

33. Headline: Bush Remains Clueless, Four Years Into War on Iraq

.

[Beetwasher]

35. I Know What They Can Do!!! MORE BETTER PROPOGANDA!!!!

Roll out a new marketing plan for the Iraqi people. I mean, that's the answer to everything, isn't it? But wait until Sept. because you don't roll out new products in Aug.

[brg5001]

45. Better prop and of course, a spate of exciting photo ops

We need that scary music with pictures of Osama.....Saddam.....and Ned Lamont. FADE.

Then, a Christian chorale. "It's morning in America." Birds chirping, Sunnis and Shiites embracing. The Cedar Revolution. Wait, ooops, bag that...we had to encourage Israel to bomb. Anyway, I'm George W. Bush and I paid for this message.

[calico1]

38. Damn, you know he's right!

We've bombed the shit out of them, killed many of their family and practically destroyed their country as we bring them Democracy at gunpoint. You would think they'd be more grateful.

:sarcasm:

[BigDDem]

39. Wait....what??

You mean we're not being greeted/treated as liberators???

[rocktivity]

40. Rocknation Frustrated By Level Of Public Support Of Bush

x(
rocknation

[sinkingfeeling]

41. “He said he really didn’t quite have a sense yet of how effective the

government was." How would Bush know what effective government is? He thinks his administration is doing a 'heck of a job'!!

[GOTV]

42. So when do they get the medal of honor? n/t

[rodeodance]

49. Bush wants Iraqi to be publicly thankup to the US for our sacrifices!

.......One participant in the lunch, Carole A. O’Leary, a professor at American University who is also doing work in Iraq with a State Department grant, said Mr. Bush expressed the view that “the Shia-led government needs to clearly and publicly express the same appreciation for United States efforts and sacrifices as they do in private.”

[rodeodance]

50. maybe by bowing before him?

[rodeodance]

51. Levin says stubborn. I say stubborn as in a temper tantrum.

But one critic of the administration’s management of the war effort said he remained unconvinced that the White House was actually listening to alternative viewpoints.

The critic, Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, said in a telephone interview that “one of the hallmarks of this administration has been stubbornness to any change of approach.”

[MasonJar]

52. Well, wouldn't any country welcome death, destruction and

torture? What a bunch of old "meanies" to make Bush look bad.

[JerseygirlCT]

53. Let's send him there, and leave him there, until he gets it all sorted out

[neuvocat]

54. Maybe if more of his so-called supporters joined the Army

or Marines then he wouldn't have that problem. C'mon Freepers, don't let your boy Bush down. C'mon now! C'mon!