LAT: Bush Rejects Idea of Partitioned Iraq

[sabra]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-bush16aug16,0,6396382.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Bush Rejects Idea of Partitioned Iraq

Washington -- President Bush flatly told Middle East experts at a private meeting this week that a three-way division of Iraq would only worsen sectarian violence in the country and is "really not an option" for solving the country's problems, the analysts said Tuesday.

Rejecting a policy alternative that has been gaining support in the U.S. and abroad, Bush told the experts that dividing the country would be "like pouring oil on fire," recounted Eric M. Davis, a Rutgers University professor and one of the experts who met with Bush Monday at the Pentagon.

The experts, speaking in interviews, said Bush also signaled that he intended to make no policy changes in Iraq -- despite warnings from military leaders and election-year arguments from Democrats that the war is drain on resources and a distraction from the larger war on terrorism.

...

Reuel Marc Gerecht, a Mideast analyst at American Enterprise Institute, said Bush asserted that the partition idea is "not even a starter," and also made clear that "as long as he's president, we're in Iraq."

[MrModerate]

1. Sorry Georgie, you don't get to pick . . .

You lost that option when you failed to plan for the postwar period and let Iraq descend into hell.

And we can beat 'Licans with that "As long as I'm president, we're in Iraq" comment big time. He's just acknowledged that he has nothing to offer but more lie and die. He's admitted his policy is a total failure and can only be salvaged by someone else.

Dem candidates, get out there and beat that drum!

[I_Make_Mistakes]

2. Uh oh, SATAN must be talking to him again!

[Selatius]

3. Well, the Sunnis and Shi'ites are slaughtering each other

We can talk, talk, talk all day long, but if we don't do something, those Sunnis and Shi'ites will, and you don't want them making decisions when they're blinded by anger.

[uppityperson]

4. You know WHY it is not an option? It is too hard to pronounce"partitioned"

party on?
parshishin?
parsnipsin?
partisan?
oh darn it

[Demeter]

5. It's Not An Option; Because It Might Actually Bring Peace and Stability

and we can't have a viable nation sitting on top of all the oil now, can we?

[grytpype]

6. An incredible article.

Jesus. We are so screwed. Bush is nuts.

[tabasco]

7. What's he gonna do? Two choices:

1) Wave his magic wand and say "abra cadabra no partitioned Iraq!"

2) Start a draft, occupy with a million troops, and make Iraq the 51st state.

[krispos42]

22. Here's the flag we'd have...

Think there's be any advocates of English-only government and education moving off to the Commonwealth of Iraq? Oh, and we'd need some Minutemen to patrol the border with binoculars and cell phones...

[Amonester]

8. So, the lil' AWOL king is pResident of Iraq too?

If not:

Q. Who is he to "decide" what the Iraqis want?
A. Their "New" tyrant. (?)

(Since when was he ever "(s)elected" there?)

[MadMaddie]

9. Well then in November the US citizens need to stand up

and be counted....

Remember the only thing he has ever been successful at in his entire life if starting the Iraqi war!!! He want's to hold on to the neat feeling in his tummy...

<snip>
said Bush asserted that the partition idea is "not even a starter," and also made clear that "as long as he's president, we're in Iraq."
<snip>

[alfredo]

10. It's not his decision to make. He is now

the butcher of Baghdad, the Whore of Babylon. He has brought decades of suffering to the people of Baghdad. Iraq will partition itself.

[elliswyatt]

11. keep it together

just like the stupid British made it. I wonder if Bush would support a sovereign choice to seperate?

[truthisfreedom]

12. his brain is partitioned.

[krispos42]

23. You're splitting atoms... rotflmao n/t

[HuffleClaw]

13. oh what complete garbage

iirc, someone exposed partition as being PNAC's plan from the beginning.

[BootinUp]

14. HE'S the decider.

[Barrett808]

15. White House rejects talk of dividing Iraq

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US President George W. Bush rejects suggestions that Iraq be partitioned as a way of heading off worsening violence there, White House spokesman Tony Snow said.

"He doesn't buy it," the spokesman said of an occasionally floated proposal to cut the war-torn country into separate states. "It's not practical."

"Most Iraqis don't want it," he said. "Iraqis look upon themselves not as -- at least in all cases -- as Sunni, Shia and Kurd, but as Iraqis, as descendants of a Mesopotamian civilization that has been around for a very long time."

"And they see themselves as a nationality rather than unmeltable ethnic groups," said Snow.

(more)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060815/pl_afp/usiraqpolitics

[Demeter]

16. You Split a Country for Political Reasons, not Ethnic

Which is why the US worked so well before, and now is deeply divided. And Organized Religion is a political endeavor.

[MrModerate]

18. And, believe it or not, the partitioning of India in 1948 . . .

Worked reasonably well, considering the alternatives.

[krispos42]

21. What about the Kurds?

The Sunnis and the Shi'a are both Arabs, but I have been led to believe that the Kurds are ethnically different. Wikipedia says they are mostly Sunni.

So then if the Iraqis divvy up the country three ways, we'd have one split due to religion and one due to ethnicity. And Turkey is making noises about not wanting a Kurdistan on their borders. Oy vey, this is a mess!

[stepnw1f]

17. Too Late Dumya

Even yo dady knew this would happen.... but hey. Little rich boy had to try to outdo his own father. What a hollow reason for so many deaths.

[underpants]

19. One mess at a time is enough

[krispos42]

20. Bush didn't know there were 2 types of Islam!

Dammit, he comes across as some fucking Middle East expert when he says stuff like this:

"President Bush flatly told Middle East experts at a private meeting this week that a three-way division of Iraq would only worsen sectarian violence in the country..."

and the moron didn't even know that there were TWO major Muslim factions in Iraq!!!!!!!!!

Hey, Bush, there are 2 religious Muslim factions in Iraq! Sunnis are one, Shi'as are the other. The Sunnis are outnumbers three-to-one by the Shi'a, but the Sunnis are in charge of the country, run the government, and oppress the Shi'a. If you topple the government, the Shi'a are going to want revenge, and it just might lead to sectarian violence!!!!!

Bush and company had been planning this since he was sworn in, yet didn't know until January 2003 that Iraq has two distinct forms of Islam. It's like not knowing there are Protestant and Catholic Christians.

The lesson here, people, is that if Bush thinks its a bad idea, it's probably a good idea. The reverse is certainly true!

[liberalpragmatist]

24. Partition probably WOULDN'T bring peace to Iraq

From the historical experience, it would probably make things worse. If the Iraqis themselves were to choose to do so, then it should be supported (although I still have my doubts it would be effective), but unless it becomes absolutely unavoidable, no outside powers should impose such a solution.

Read this interview from Peace Magazine for a more thorough overview of how, historically, partitioning countries in order to bring political stability has often simply locked a conflict in - it becomes a long-running conflict between neighboring states and becomes ever more intractible. It's very hard to divide a country in ways that makes either side happy and divisions are enormously disruptive, socially, politically, and economically. They also tend to bring both states into a siege mentality that result in greater conflict and more internal instability. It's possible Iraq could avoid such an outcome, but the ethnic makeup of Iraq and the internal dynamics make that unlikely. And the breakup of Yugoslavia, though it came from within, still resulted in massive violence and instability.

http://www.peacemagazine.org/archive/v11n3p12.htm

METTA SPENCER: Back in September of 1991 we reviewed your book, Warpaths: The Politics of Partition (New York: Hill and Wang, 1990). Since then it has become even more relevant, with the secessionist wars in the former Yugoslavia and the former Soviet Union, and with the prospect of secession in Canada. I think that everybody in the world ought to read your book, but since not everyone will, I'd like to discuss your findings.

ROBERT SCHAEFFER: Okay. The book looks at what has happened in countries that were divided by the great powers after World War II, such as Korea, China, Vietnam, India, Palestine, Cyprus, Germany, and Ireland, which was divided after World War I. The intellectual questions were: Why did they decide to divide these countries? Was partition a good idea? Did it work? What were its consequences? The main reason for partition was to try to settle disputes between contending political parties that wanted state power on their own. In Korea there were Communists and non-Communists; in India there were Hindus and Moslems. When the war ended and independence seemed likely, instead of awarding state power to one group or the other, the great powers decided to split the difference and award state power to both by dividing those countries in two. They thought that partition would solve the problems between these contending groups, which would then leave each other alone.

SPENCER: Famous last words!

SCHAEFFER: Exactly. Instead of solving problems, partition actually created three major problems that the people who divided these countries had not expected. First, partition was enormously disruptive socially. It led immediately to widespread migrations between two countries. For example, tens of thousands of people migrated across the new Irish borders. In Korea and Vietnam, hundreds of thousands, if not millions, migrated across the borders very rapidly. Seventeen million people migrated across the Indo-Pakistani borders in a six-month period, in history's fastest migration. Many people, fearing for their lives, fled across the borders. Others were told by the governments, "You should live where you're supposed to"--Communists in the Communist part, capitalists in the capitalist part, Muslims in Pakistan, and Hindus in India. People left behind families, businesses, and the graves of their dead ancestors. These migrations often led to war between migrating groups, so that millions of people died in the violence. None of the people who divided these countries expected that people would move in such large numbers.

[Phoenix135]

25. I agree

That pretty much went along the lines of what I was thinking. Besides, other then the Sunni Triangle Iraq is probaly just 95% sand or endless desert.

[damntexdem]

26. Why not ask someone who can actually INFLUENCE what Iraq does?

Or even someone who has some understanding of what's going on in Iraq?

[MasonJar]

27. So now the "pretender" is the "Emperor has not clothes" for the

whole world....in his eyes.

[Az_lefty]

28. the experts say one thing and monkey boy says another...

a mark of true leadership.
:sarcasm:

[Contrary1]

29. Not really up to the Decider/Dictator, is it? n/t